Eldar vs IG

[zenBen]

So, what does an Eldar do to combat IG? His range is longer, he's castled in and has some nasty tricks. A solid line of tanks, backs to the table-edge so you can't target rear armour, and walls of cheap troops to make it hard to get close with deep strikers like Spiders, Hawks or outflanking War Walkers; and you can't hide either, with barrage and stuff like deep-striking stormtroopers and Vendettas.

Hard to outshoot that with Fire Prisms when chance to pen is only 50%. Should an Eldar ignore the shooting game and just try to get as much stuff in his face as possible?

[DarkLink]

For one, no need to deepstrike Warp Spiders. They move like 24" per turn on average.

If they take a lot of Vendettas, then there's not really a whole lot to do. Mech up, take advantage of your vehicle cover saves (barrage weapons do not ignore cover, I've seen IG players try to claim that before), and you don't need to get close for outflanking War Walkers to be awesome. And unless he spams Vendettas, a Wraithknight will be pretty solid.

[zenBen]

For one, no need to deepstrike Warp Spiders. They move like 24" per turn on average.

If they take a lot of Vendettas, then there's not really a whole lot to do. Mech up, take advantage of your vehicle cover saves (barrage weapons do not ignore cover, I've seen IG players try to claim that before), and you don't need to get close for outflanking War Walkers to be awesome. And unless he spams Vendettas, a Wraithknight will be pretty solid.

Ok, fair enough for those exemplars. But we still have to crack the egg. Say there's 4-5 Leman Russ with their backs to the wall. Guardsmen line the table edges to prevent outflanking. Vendettas are an option too, I don't know. I don't have a Wraithknight, I have two WLords but their offensive output is a bit limited.
I always played Eldar to their strength of mobility, since 2nd. But if I'm facing an opponent intent on castling, it seems a bit trickier. I haven't played IG yet, which is why I'm asking.

[Nabterayl]

What points level are you contemplating? 4-5 Leman Russ, a significant number of guardsmen, and Vendettas seems like a lot to have in a list, but maybe you play bigger games than I do.

[zenBen]

Normal points, somewhere from 1500 to 2000. As for their list, depends on what the opponent wants to bring, but at 1850 you can have 5 LR, 100 guardsmen, a Vendetta w Stormtroops plus obligatory HQ and some trimmings...anyway this is meant to be a general query so I won't post a list.
IG haven't changed recently, just Eldar, so it's more about what can Eldar now do against such an opponent?

[DarkLink]

Leman Russes aren't barrage, just large blast, so make sure you're using adequate LOS blocking terrain for one. A lot of times when people have problems with shooty armies, it's because you're not using enough terrain. Which is one of the design problems with Tau, since they have so much stuff that ignores terrain. At least IG pay a lot to get their barrage, even if they do have some very powerful options.


Ok, fair enough for those exemplars. But we still have to crack the egg. Say there's 4-5 Leman Russ with their backs to the wall. Guardsmen line the table edges to prevent outflanking. Vendettas are an option too, I don't know. I don't have a Wraithknight, I have two WLords but their offensive output is a bit limited.
I always played Eldar to their strength of mobility, since 2nd. But if I'm facing an opponent intent on castling, it seems a bit trickier. I haven't played IG yet, which is why I'm asking.

The Guardsmen can't deploy or move fast enough to block the entire table edge for outflanking. You should be able to make it happen.

Castling opponents actually aren't that bad to deal with. Play to the mission. If it's objectives, you can place them so that he won't be able to reach them. Take a few cheap Ranger/Jetbike squads to grab those objectives. Then, you don't even have to kill him, just hem him in and keep your scoring units alive and you win even if he shoots the crap out of you and doesn't take any casualties.

Against IG you probably won't get Warlord, so make sure to keep your Warlord alive. Try to get First Blood, but he can probably grab that if he goes first. If he's castling, getting Linebreaker will probably be pretty easy as long as you can keep, say, one Jetbike squad alive.

Some Dire Avengers in Serpents will do a pretty good job against his infantry, so he won't be able to advance without getting shot up. War Walkers can chew through bodies, too, just try and kill his Orders first as best you can so he can't do stuff like Get Back In The Fight.

Imperial Guard, especially with lots of large blasts and Vendettas, are pretty good against Eldar, though. You might just have to play a couple games and try stuff before you figure out what works.

[Belly]

I have quite a bit of IG in my local scene. They seem to be of the competitive variety, so i've been thinking of some tactics to combat the gunline.

The list i'm taking to the upcoming tournament includes 4 serpents with guardians/avengers inside, swooping hawks, warp spiders, jetbikes, war walkers.... So quite a bit of mobility. I'm thinking that I will reserve everything but the serpents. Turn 1, I flatout them as far forward as I can. Get up nice and close (but out of assault range). Turn two, I disemark. My guardians hit the infantry, serpents hit the tanks. Hopefully my spiders/walkers come on and can hit things they need to. Hawks take out a big squad of infantry too. Then I use battelfocus to get back into cover for my opponents turn. Use their own Aegis to give my stuff a 4+ (3+ on the serpents).

My idea is based on giving my opponent only 4 hard-as-nails targets to shoot on turn 1-2. Targets with a 3+ jink, that almost can't be penned.

Really, I think that Eldar shouldn't have any trouble against the typical IG list. We've got so many great tools that directly combat their strengths.

[rle68]

easy answer dark reapers...and mech...guard die very easy to those

[G00dySmiley]

nightspinners with holofields are 130 points of awesome against guard as it is barage center on officer or special weapons and watch important things disappear.

i played against IG and a single autarch on a bike with mantle of the laughing god and fusion gun just went around popping one per turn (though my dire avengers got lucky with a 6 on a plasma grenade to kill the last one.

crimson hunters eat vandettas and a autarch means you are more likely to come in 2nd (which is a good thing), if a crimson hunter exarch vs a squad you can even pull precition hits off to the 2nd squad member and maybe blow up or hinder the whole squad.

striking scorpions eat guardsmen, if you have an exarch with scorpion claw you eat meq to.

another possibility is mantle of the laughing god farseer to twin link your night spinners and then bring in yriel for reserve manipulation abenefit of charge a guard blob, challenge, then when things pile in drop his eye of wraith and watch everythign under the template dissappear, they will likely fail the esuing leadership test and with I7 they don't get to escape

[chicop76]

I just had the same issue the other day with a mech army guard army 5 bascalisk and 3 russes. If I fielded everything I would had been blown away so I outflanked and deepstrike which really devistated his lines.

The swooping hawk hq choice is great for a lot of guardsmen close together since you have a chance to blind when you come in and another chance on a single unit with a sun rifle, and again in close combat.

However I think you can do the following tactics.

Take the scorpion lord and wraith guard and outflank with them in a waveserpent. Also take the ranger lord and outflank with fire dragons inside of another waveserpent.

Deathspinners, wraothknight, and fire prisms wouldn't be a bad ideal. Guard have trouble dealing with wraithguard, but you have to becareful against meltas and plasma weapons.

[bluepowerade]

Also, a much ignored unit is the support weapons with a shadow weaver. you can get 3 str 6 barrage small blasts for only 90 pts. And with 48 inch range they have some solid reach. Center those blasts on any officers and they suffer instant death. plus they are great vs units of infantry. And with barrage they hit side armor, which is only 10 on chimeras.

[G00dySmiley]

Also, a much ignored unit is the support weapons with a shadow weaver. you can get 3 str 6 barrage small blasts for only 90 pts. And with 48 inch range they have some solid reach. Center those blasts on any officers and they suffer instant death. plus they are great vs units of infantry. And with barrage they hit side armor, which is only 10 on chimeras.

I agree they are amazing for the points, 12 toughness 7 wounds is hard to pop, it is just our heavy support slot is full of so much win in higher points games i find it hard to fit them in. though at 1250 and less they do great.

[zenBen]

A lot of good ideas, thanks. Especially like the Solitarch w fusion gun idea...that would be hilarious to see ripping apart a line of tanks.
6th ed Eldar I have found so far to be extremely good, and good fun. They can actually be a bit survivable with all the cover save boosting and save rerolling - shocking! And they dish out plenty of punishment. Warp Spiders are just intense, although I think I prefer to deep strike them unless I know the foe is coming to me: you just make less Warp jump rolls that way.
Anyway, I suppose we'll just see what happens when I face the gunline.

[bluepowerade]

All three times I've deep struck them I mishapped and rolled a 1.... So I've decided to risk the warp jumps now haha.