View Full Version : A PhoenixQueen?

07-04-2013, 03:56 AM
Straight question to High Elf fans.

Could the Phoenix King be female?

Was just pondering that there is no stipulation that princes be male, many are female, and I've never read it fixed that the Phoenix king must be male. Obv a female PK would cause an interesting scenario with regards to the ritual marriage to the Everqueen but asides that 'problem' would it be possible/likely?

07-04-2013, 05:02 AM
Given that the Phoenix King and Everqueen have to mate and produce more little Everqueens it is hard to see the Phoenix King being female. High Elves are incredibly traditional too, even the current Everqueen taking a more active role in govoerning and defending Ulthuan has upset a lot of nobles.

07-04-2013, 01:29 PM
That's why the High Elves are the stupidest of the Elves. Dark Elves have an immortal tyrant and WE have perpetually renewed demi-gods. None of this silly mortal frailty to muddy the waters.

07-05-2013, 04:22 AM
Given that the Phoenix King and Everqueen have to mate and produce more little Everqueens it is hard to see the Phoenix King being female. High Elves are incredibly traditional too, even the current Everqueen taking a more active role in govoerning and defending Ulthuan has upset a lot of nobles.
Well for arguments sake we could say that the previous king died shortly and suddenly after the 1 year courtship and after a successor to the everqueen had been made, or that there was no fear for the line of EQ. It seems a bit harsh that females can be involved fully in the courtly processes, and comprise the noble families and play just as large a role as the male elves but not make it to the very top.

07-05-2013, 04:48 AM
It depends what you see as the 'top' especially now Alarielle is re-establishing the Everqueen as a political force. It's interesting though because High Elvesn history is quite misogynist in a way. Prior to the Phoenix King the Everqueen was the highest authority and the calender revolved around her. Then you have a male only position created to combat a specific threat which then becomes pre-eminent and the Everqueen is expected to butt out of politics.

It is actually one reason why I'm so impressed with what Ward did with the background for this book (assuming it was just him, but for simplicity's sale we will go with that), by making the Everqueen take a more active role in the governance and defense of Ulthuan he reversed some of the inherent sexism present in the background.

07-05-2013, 05:33 AM
Unless there would be an EverKing, a PhoenixQueen doesn't seem to be possible.
This is a kind of balance of power within a race.
The tradition is another reason, as one is a religious leader, and the other one is a political leader.
Breaking such tradition would do great impact to all elves in Ulthuan, and it doesn't seem suitable prince (male) is in shortage, so there's no reason to take such a risk.


The comeback of the Everqueen = the comeback of High Elves, as we can see the influence made by the Everqueen during the Dark Elves Invasion.
Also as the fluff wordingly states that Tyrion is the consort of the Everqueen, it won't be a surprise to see once Finubar say goodbye to everyone, the defender of Ulthuan would become the new Phoenix King (unless the god does not approve).
If so, what else it needs to stop the continuous downfall of the High Elves, would be some new stars on the battlefield, especially some young ones from Caledor.

07-05-2013, 06:14 AM
That isn't necessarily the case, the position of Everqueen is governed by matrilineal primogeniture the inheritence of the eldest daughter while the position of Phoenix King is electoral. So a woman could be elected, it just isn't likely.

07-05-2013, 12:51 PM
Interested you say Eldargal that high elf society is misogynist, of all the Warhammer races you would have to say HE/DE are the most gender fair in their background. Nobles can equally be female as male, same for mages and the warrior castes (thinking of the female swordmaster from the McNeil novels). There ofcourse is a male-weighted model range but thats because of GW's male oriented marketing/brand direction. It is a shame IMO that GW don't exploit HE's more balanced society and write more female roles into the storyline of Ulthuan.

Oh and conversely, whilst I approve of more female influence in the HE book, I disapprove of Ward making the everqueen militant, but then again I guess shes just fed up with all the invasions and chaos in her forest. You've got to draw a line somewhere...

07-06-2013, 11:47 PM
I wouldn't say their society is misogynistic necessarily, we know princesses/noblewomen are viewed more as potential rivals than non-traditional for example. But the theme of having a male superhero come into a matriarchal society and save All The Things and then become the pre-eminent office of the land is rather sexist. That's why I like that Ward is shaking things up with Alarielle expanding her role beyond caring and nurturing (two stereotypical feminine traits). A lot it is institutional sexism in GW (not the same as saying the people working there are sexist). They are predominately or exclusively male so they mostly write about males so the result is more males in the background.

07-11-2013, 06:26 AM
Ok, slightly different topic here but still Queen related.

Been reading through my HE armybook and got to the section on Alarielle. According to that, there have been 11 Everqueens since the time of Anaerion. This matches the number of Phoenix kings which there have been. Considering the majority of Kings have lost their lives to war/assassination I find this correspondence highly unlikely. This implies the Everqueen is changed whenever the PK dies. If the 1 year courtship betweek king and queen is supposed to produce a new Everqueen heir, what does this line of thought lead to? A whole load of ex and future everqueens lying around just waiting for their turn? Or just living out their lives in the court after being everqueen? What life does a future everqueen have before she is crowned?

Perhaps I'm thinking too much into this...

07-11-2013, 07:12 AM
I think it's just an oversight, something the writers haven't thought about enough accustomed as they are to the real world British system where king and queen are linked so when the reigning monarch dies you get a fresh pair regardless.

07-11-2013, 12:51 PM
Ok an oversight is an easy stretch, but what about the everqueen before she becomes the everqueen. What do the children of the king and everqueen do? If the queen has a boy what becomes of it? And if its a girl what liberties is she allowed, knowing full well one day she must be the spiritual leader of her people.