Mech Eldar 1850 list

[bluepowerade]

Hello, this is a list I have been wanting to try out with some units I have yet to really try so I was looking for some other opinions. It is meant to be a pretty tough and competitive list for a variety of opponents.

HQ - Farseer - 160 pts
Jetbike, Singing Spear, Mantle of the Laughing god
(he is meant to fly around behind LOS and pass around long range blessings)

Elite - 5 x Fire Dragons - 260 pts
Wave Serpent
TL Scatter laser, Holofields

Troop - 10 x Dire Avengers - 265 pts
Wave Serpent
TL scatter laser, Holofields

Troop - 10 x dire avengers - 265 pts
wave serpent
TL scatter laser, Holofields

Troop - 10 x Guardians - 110 pts
Bright Lance

Fast Attack - Crimson Hunter - 160 pts
pulse laser, 2 x bright lance

Fast attack - 10 x Warp Spiders - 190 pts

Heavy Support - Fire Prism - 140 pts
Holofields

Heavy Support - Wraithknight - 300 pts
Scatter laser, suncannon and shield

The idea is that I load the field with very tough armor and overwhelm the enemy with str 6 dakka. I really enjoy the WK, as the only way to reliably down it is heavy anti-tank weapons, which if fired his way leave my other tanks unscathed. I haven't used warp spiders much because I don't care for the model, but I have heard too many good things about them to not try them out.

[Dave Mcturk]

mmm.. looks like fun... but 4 ships isnt really mech dar ! ,, good luck...
i love spiders but 10 can be overkill, 6/7/8 AND the exarch is better.... seriously imo the only exarch worth having... 18" st6 ap1 bs5 x3 shots ! with battle focus and spiderboyz to soak up his wounds... spiderz always get hit and run now... so they can escape most pursuit units..
try popping them on from board edge rather than deep striking !

im not convinced by dire unavengers... but post how they go ... [usually pop ! in my experience !] [4+ armour is so soft !]

[karandras]

The list looks like a good, balanced, competitive, all-comers list. I really don't like the HQ all alone like that though. Seems like an easy KP + Warlord give away. I understand the planning behind it, but would much prefer to have either a different HQ tucked into a squad or change out one of the troops for a bike squad escort for him. Just my proverbial $0.02.

[chicop76]

The list looks like a good, balanced, competitive, all-comers list. I really don't like the HQ all alone like that though. Seems like an easy KP + Warlord give away. I understand the planning behind it, but would much prefer to have either a different HQ tucked into a squad or change out one of the troops for a bike squad escort for him. Just my proverbial $0.02.

All I can say is that's what seekers are for. +2 rerollable cover save that.

[bluepowerade]

True True. And Heldrakes/flying MC's make that seer sad as well. The problem is what HQ should I take in a transport heavy list? It is tough to use a blessing seer tucked into a wave serpent, where he will get little use. Throwing a seer into the guardians will make them a higher priority target, where I want them to be largely ignored and just taking easy pot shots. What would you guys say would be another good option?

Also, I was considering the spider exarch, but with that setup he ends up being 54 points, which can easily afford me a full squad of normal, deadly guys. Perhaps if I drop a few and the mantle and get a jetbike squadron?

[G00dySmiley]

I am more and more convinced asurmen is a good hq for mechdar, sure you lack blessings, but attach him to 5-10 dire avengers (one of the few times i qwould say get 10 with exarch and power weapon/shield) you have a mini eldar death star exarch accepts challenges and asurmen kills squads, heck i wouldnt' have much against takign this group into combat vs most things and even if they just assault in and hold an objective they are threartening enough that your opponent will not want to be close to them

another thing i have found the sun cannon to be ok, but the heavy d cannons are great, adds some str 10 shots and frees up 60 points (that plus the loss of farseer would pay for asurmen)

[bluepowerade]

Hmmm I have never really thought of Asurmen with some avengers as a tough combatant unit, but i could actually see that going pretty well. I haven't tried out the heavy d cannons yet but I might have to try this setup out. Thank you for the advice!

[Dave Mcturk]

how are the dire unavengers holding up ?

[bluepowerade]

Well they certainly don't "hold up" for very long outside of their serpents. They really put the hurt on any infantry unit they hit when they pop out, but they don't take the return fire well. I don't think I made very good use of their longer ranger and Battle Focus though. I got within rapid fire range for the enemy. I think adding a tough character like asurmen could seriously increase their survivability though.

Also, the wave serpents are so tough, I have been able to choose when the avengers hop out and do their damage.

[bluepowerade]

Would Karandras be worth considering over Asurmen? With an Exarch with shield, he will have a 5++. His warlord trait would actually work pretty well with their shuriken catapults, and he absolutely destroys everything in CC.

[Asuryan]

Would Karandras be worth considering over Asurmen? With an Exarch with shield, he will have a 5++. His warlord trait would actually work pretty well with their shuriken catapults, and he absolutely destroys everything in CC.

it could work out. Against MEQ's and TEQ's Karandras wounds easier but not by much 2s vs 3s, but when it comes to taking saves with ap 2, Asurmen has a better invulnerable save, Against MC's Karandras wounds much easier typically still on a 2+ and gives the squad monster hunter while Asurmen wounds typically on 5+ but can remove the model if it fails a LD test after taking a wound and most MC will not die to karandras' attacks so Asurmen's 4++ or 3++ with shield of grace is useful. Then in challenges Karandras will ID anything T4 and has stalker, where Asurmen has the removal ability for EW and the better invulnerable saves.

I know that the Phoenix Lords can join other aspects but I think its just easier to keep them in the same aspect for simplification.

[bluepowerade]

Karandras also has an additional attack, as well as his mandiblasters. It really does seem like a toss up. Asurmen getting multiple warlord traits "could" also come in handy.

As for the ID on MC's, most seem to have ld 9 or 10, making it an unreliable means of removing them.

I do agree, it would look odd with mix and matched phoenix lords and aspect warriors.

[Asuryan]

Asurmen and Karandras have the same number of attacks and plus one for the ccw, and you get your armor save against the madiblasters so they are kind of a toss up hilarious when they work otherwise but otherwise kinda meh.

Removing the MC with a failed LD on a 9 or 10 is still more likely than Karandras killing a MC in one turn.

Also note that Asurmen's weapon is master crafted for the one re-roll.

Jain Zar, Mugen Ra, and Feugan are the only PL that i see being of any use in a different Aspect. Jain Zar's mask reduces WS by 5 when she charges so you auto hit and they can't make attacks back and she has fear (not nearly as useful or reliable) making any cc group even Banshees good, Mugen Ra's assault 4/5 with rending and pinning great for a shooting unit or a unit to charge, and Feugan can Shoot at a transport to pop it so that his unit can charge it.

Asurmen brings is D3 warlord traits, Karandras brings stealth which isn't bad, and both of them are pretty good in cc. Barroth either yells at his squad for being to slow (every infantry unit) or for being to fast (spiders and turbo boosting bikes).

[bluepowerade]

oh I didn't think Asurmen had two weapons, but I don't have my codex on me at the moment. I'm going to play a game today and give the big guy a chance and see how he does.

Do you have a personal HQ choice preference Asuryan?

[G00dySmiley]

d3 traits increases the chances of getting a rerollable 2+ armor save .. that is why i love asurmen

he is he beat stick among the pheonix lords and provides his own inv save, the others can be used effectivley but he's probably the best for standalone use

[bluepowerade]

So i played a game against IG allied with some Templars. Asurmen got relatively useless warlord traits of course, the best being ambush of blades, which ended up being overkill for wee little guard. It was kill points and I won by one point. Made some poor choices, and lost my fire prism the first turn which hurt. I really liked the WK with the dual heavy D cannons. Killed a venerable dread and a leman russ, as well as absorbing a huge amount of firepower.

Dire Avengers were fine in their anti infantry role. They are actually quite a bit more survivable, as the move at near max range, unleash a volley, then run back eliminated almost all return fire.

My opponent was complaining a bit about the wave serpent shields which i thought was funny. it is an impressive weapon, but you have to pay the points to get it.

Fire dragons laid waste to his land raider and left his deathstar templar unit footslogging and they did nothing the entire game. Those poor dragons were lost in battle though....

All in all I thoroughly enjoyed the list, I think I may downgrade from asurmen. He is a tough guy, but I could go for a far cheaper HQ who will still serve as much a purpose. I think with the points savings I will try for some War Walkers.

[G00dySmiley]

So i played a game against IG allied with some Templars. Asurmen got relatively useless warlord traits of course, the best being ambush of blades, which ended up being overkill for wee little guard. It was kill points and I won by one point. Made some poor choices, and lost my fire prism the first turn which hurt. I really liked the WK with the dual heavy D cannons. Killed a venerable dread and a leman russ, as well as absorbing a huge amount of firepower.

Dire Avengers were fine in their anti infantry role. They are actually quite a bit more survivable, as the move at near max range, unleash a volley, then run back eliminated almost all return fire.

My opponent was complaining a bit about the wave serpent shields which i thought was funny. it is an impressive weapon, but you have to pay the points to get it.

Fire dragons laid waste to his land raider and left his deathstar templar unit footslogging and they did nothing the entire game. Those poor dragons were lost in battle though....

All in all I thoroughly enjoyed the list, I think I may downgrade from asurmen. He is a tough guy, but I could go for a far cheaper HQ who will still serve as much a purpose. I think with the points savings I will try for some War Walkers.

yea if you don't want to go close up then go back to the mantle/bike'd farseer. can guide and precience the wraithlord and fire prism.

[Dave Mcturk]

busy putting together a spinner and guardian list for weekend... need the aviator for fearless bubble and close up anti tank / monster... but suddenly remembered why maugan ra is good with his reaper buddies ... or any other long range heavies... he has night vision... and if he is warlord ... split fire as well... and 5 st 6 ap 3 close combat attacks isnt too shabby... not a monster but good buffs to a shooty army...

[bluepowerade]

I was considering him with an icarus aegis line. Split fires that 2 shot lascannon with night vision, which is not a bad deal. Then has a nice comfy 4+ cover.

How are spinners?

[Dave Mcturk]

not tried them under new codex yet but at 115pts and able to keep away from cron bugs, might be a cheap option,,, ;-}

doomweaver can now torrent at shorter ranges so happy pointy eared faces !

[chicop76]

With my tau I played against a similar list and destroyed it. I lost no units and all he had left was 5 dire avengers, 3 firedragons, spirt seer, and 2 fire prisms.

Out of all he had I took the most damage from his spinner. I ignoredit on turn 1 and after that I made it my primary target. Once out the way I was able to resume the slaughter of the Eldar.

That being said the wave serpent is a pain to kill. It took all my anti tank to glance death 2 a turn. Grant it 1 strength 10 railgun, 3 rail guns, 6 strength 7 ap 2 shoots, 12 strength 7 shots, 30 sniper rifles, 2 fusion guns, and 6 seeker missles is a lot of anti tank to be shrugging off. I only got one pen in the whole game and that was due to him using his serpent sheild to fire.

What I think cost him the game was I ignore cover saves and he doesn't. I admit gtg ground a lot. Helps to have a warlord trait to fire at bs after going to ground once a turn. Also thanks to marker lights I didn't suffer too much by going to ground. Although 2 of my pathfinder teams spent the game going to ground a lot.

If I was vehicle heavy I think the serpent spam would had done better. Since I only run two vehicles and have two riptides and 3 broadsides I noticed the army had a hard time dealing with the Tau. It didn't help when the first vehicle I glanced death was the fire dragons.

Th dire avengers wasn't hard to kill at all, and the fire dragons once in triple fire range was easily dealt with as well.

I wil say the spinner was annoying since it could possibly snipe out my ethereal and commander, got to love succesful look out sir's.

However let's say 2-3 spinners could had possibly sniped out my ethereal or commander.

Thinking back I would had ignored the spinners until I took ou the firedragon mobiliy. interesting enough I didn't even bother firing at his fire prisoms at all. +3 gtg cover saves all game long, go area terrain. I did had other units that either had $ cover save thanks to my riptides. I would say my worst save was my +5 invulnerable on my riptides, or +5 on my tanks.

I think more ap 2 would had helped, and the ability to negate cover or fire barrage. I learned to put my ethereal into cover in the future, although he made out all right.

The serpents are durable, but they have no real ap, which means you can save against them.

I'm not a fan of the Sun Knight, but I would had issues if I had to go against it. I would had to have to decide to kill the knight which I can easily do, or kill the fire dragon serpents. I probably still would target out the fire dragons, due to possible instant death and ease of killing my tides.

I just think more durable units would help. 5 avengers die rather easily.

[chicop76]

Also note your list is better rounded than what I faced, however a weakness in your list that he didn't have is you have one unit out of a serpent. I had 30 fire warriors with trigger fingers since turn 1 they couldn't shoot at much. Unless I wreak a serpent they had nothing to shoot at. The spiders are an easier target to shoot at over the serpents.

However I can't say much, because where I play we use a lot of terrain. That being said with their movement and run shoot it may be hard to kill them. In the game I was in if they was to engage they would had died, unless they was able to enter combat, unless it was against the sides or riptides.

[DrLove42]

With my tau I played against a similar list and destroyed it. I lost no units and all he had left was 5 dire avengers, 3 firedragons, spirt seer, and 2 fire prisms.

Out of all he had I took the most damage from his spinner. I ignoredit on turn 1 and after that I made it my primary target. Once out the way I was able to resume the slaughter of the Eldar.

That being said the wave serpent is a pain to kill. It took all my anti tank to glance death 2 a turn. Grant it 1 strength 10 railgun, 3 rail guns, 6 strength 7 ap 2 shoots, 12 strength 7 shots, 30 sniper rifles, 2 fusion guns, and 6 seeker missles is a lot of anti tank to be shrugging off. I only got one pen in the whole game and that was due to him using his serpent sheild to fire.

What I think cost him the game was I ignore cover saves and he doesn't. I admit gtg ground a lot. Helps to have a warlord trait to fire at bs after going to ground once a turn. Also thanks to marker lights I didn't suffer too much by going to ground. Although 2 of my pathfinder teams spent the game going to ground a lot.

If I was vehicle heavy I think the serpent spam would had done better. Since I only run two vehicles and have two riptides and 3 broadsides I noticed the army had a hard time dealing with the Tau. It didn't help when the first vehicle I glanced death was the fire dragons.

Th dire avengers wasn't hard to kill at all, and the fire dragons once in triple fire range was easily dealt with as well.

I wil say the spinner was annoying since it could possibly snipe out my ethereal and commander, got to love succesful look out sir's.

However let's say 2-3 spinners could had possibly sniped out my ethereal or commander.

Thinking back I would had ignored the spinners until I took ou the firedragon mobiliy. interesting enough I didn't even bother firing at his fire prisoms at all. +3 gtg cover saves all game long, go area terrain. I did had other units that either had $ cover save thanks to my riptides. I would say my worst save was my +5 invulnerable on my riptides, or +5 on my tanks.

I think more ap 2 would had helped, and the ability to negate cover or fire barrage. I learned to put my ethereal into cover in the future, although he made out all right.

The serpents are durable, but they have no real ap, which means you can save against them.

I'm not a fan of the Sun Knight, but I would had issues if I had to go against it. I would had to have to decide to kill the knight which I can easily do, or kill the fire dragon serpents. I probably still would target out the fire dragons, due to possible instant death and ease of killing my tides.

I just think more durable units would help. 5 avengers die rather easily.

Eldar will always suffer against Tau. We rely on cover saves and Tau just strip tjem far too easily.

Also the warlord table is get up from going to ground once per game not turn. If you were using it every turn its no suprise he hammered

[chicop76]

Eldar will always suffer against Tau. We rely on cover saves and Tau just strip tjem far too easily.

Also the warlord table is get up from going to ground once per game not turn. If you were using it every turn its no suprise he hammered

I said I used the warlord trait once, but continued to gtg all game long. The warlord trait helped in turn one which I took little loss and was able to fire at near full power on turn 2. The other turns I was gtg, which you can still fire snap shots. I was shooting marker lights to allow my bs1 units to fire at bs 3 via snap shots. It reduced my cover denial, but not much since seekers deny cover, smart missiles, and my broadsides due to my commander upgrades, oh and the barrage shooting from my riptides.

It's not just Tau. I can see th same problem with space wolves and grey knights. Also necrons with wwbb and + 3 or 4 saves is a problem as well. For example how are you able to really deal with wraiths. If you pop out your vehicles you may lose your squads due to return fire power.

I would say Dark Angels, but they really don't dish out a lot of anti-tank fire power. Nids and Daemons I can see being interesting match ups.

Ground guard can be rough.

Other than the ones mentiones I don't see eldar having problems with too many armies. Dark Eldar maybe, due to a heavy amount of anti vehicle, but which vehicles would be wiped out rather easily.

[rle68]

Eldar will always suffer against Tau. We rely on cover saves and Tau just strip tjem far too easily.

Also the warlord table is get up from going to ground once per game not turn. If you were using it every turn its no suprise he hammered

if your relying on cover saves vs tau your doing something wrong... kill of the marker lights off and then run his butt off the table

[chicop76]

if your relying on cover saves vs tau your doing something wrong... kill of the marker lights off and then run his butt off the table

Good luck with doing that. If you are focusing on 4-5 squads that gives out marker lights. Than it's an easier win for the Tau. Also marker light is not the only thing Tau has to deny cover. Barrage from riptides and commander that can take ignore cover. That means 7-8 units you have to kill off that can deny cover.

Not to mention if you put marker lights in every squad than what. The riptides and the hammer head is the only models in my army that can't take marker lights, oh and kroot too. Marker Drones and drone controller is a great upgrade.

It's best to kill the units killing you, than killing the support units which can't really do anything , but support. Personally that's how the eldar player lost big time, due to shooting my gtg pathfinders, broadsides since they was majorly denying cover. The problem is unless you can deny cover yourself it's easier said than done. Also killing all the support models still leave the models that can put hurt on you.

However I played Tau since 3rd. The only thing that has ever done well against Tau has been stupid tank shock, and units that can live long enough to assault Tau, or an army that can outshoot Tau. Eldar can't really out shoot Tau, and durabilty without no FNP is a liability.

However Eldar vehicles is hard for Tau to destroy, well wave serpents are. Also Eldar have a melee advatantage over Tau. I personally think trying to outshoot Tau is a rather bad ideal. Especially some builds I seen with 3 riptides and 9 broadsides.

it's funny that when I was making my Tau list I added a lot of stealth suits in it. Than I tought about what if I faced Tau and quickly took out my stealth suits realizing that cover denial will see them easily killed.

Building an all comers list. You hav e to consider cover denial units. Daemons with vector strikes and skullcannons is an example and CSM doing the same thing, but adding in helldrakes.

Eldar only cover denial units are D-sythe Wraithguard and deathspinners, which I will kill or get rid of mobility with a vengence. Out of a serpent I am not too worried about wraithguard as Tau. An army of wraithguard is another matter though. However taking wraithguard will force my anti tank to choose between serpents or wraithguard.

Honestly I felt Eldar would do well against Tau until I played a good Eldar player. I seriously over estimated the serpents. Even with +4 cover saves. I was able to still down 2 serpents a turn. If I didn't go to ground with half my army, and if I had los and range to his army all game long. I could had possibly down 4-5 serpents in a turn. Due to terrain, me deploying first, and half my army out of range, plus constanly gtg. I was only able to average 2 a turn.

As an after thought I think letting him go first would had been much better. That way I could had deployed off his deployment and would had done more damage turn one.

[rle68]

facing tau and seeing path finders with marker lights....

for all that on turn one all wave serpents/ war walkers unleash and you have 0 pathfinders left in a perfect world :)..

the wave serpents arent going to let you go to ground if they fire the shields..and of course youd have other things with marker lights but no where near the numbers you did.. and with 60" range and 4 serpents or in my case 3 thats alot of dead pathfinders..

reducing marker lights negates an advantage and there goes some if not all your no more cover save shooting

then its a gun fight and eldar bs is better overall

[chicop76]

facing tau and seeing path finders with marker lights....

for all that on turn one all wave serpents/ war walkers unleash and you have 0 pathfinders left in a perfect world :)..

the wave serpents arent going to let you go to ground if they fire the shields..and of course youd have other things with marker lights but no where near the numbers you did.. and with 60" range and 4 serpents or in my case 3 thats alot of dead pathfinders..

reducing marker lights negates an advantage and there goes some if not all your no more cover save shooting

then its a gun fight and eldar bs is better overall

I don't see it being that simple. I was waiting for the ignore save barrage which he did on turn 2 and wasn't impressed by it at all. That allowed me to cement my victory since his shielding was down. I still was rolling bad, had to get through cover saves, and still was glancing, except for on serpent I melted in the face.

The game I played it would had been really dumb to do that. I had 10 weapons that had the same range or even greater range than your shielding. 6 was strength 7 ap 2, 3 was strength 8 ap 1 with tank hunter, and a strength 10 rail gun. Even with out the Pathfiners my three strength 8 ap 1 shoots with target locks can still ignore cover, did I mention the was also twin linked.

Yes the shielding ignore cover with no ap. I have to admit I was rolling really good on saves. For example my riptide passed his regular leadership test on psychic shreik, saved against 3 wounds which 2 was from the fire dragons and one from a fireprism. However I failed every roll to boost my riptides. One Riptide had 3 self inflicted wounds on it and he failed to wound the Ritide himeself. The other one had only two wounds which was also self inflicted. Also I was rolling below average for shooting. At turn 3 when he quit he was only able to kill a side, 3 missile drones, 2 wounds on my commander, 6 pathfinders, and one hull point on my hammerhead. He in the end was trying to kill my sides due to all the crap they can do.

However let's look at one wave serpent. That's 7 twin linked strength 6 shots and 1+d6 strength 7 shots.
On average that's about 5 strength 6 hits and about 4 srength 7. If I went to ground on a 3+ that's roughly 3_4 pathfinders dead which would require you to fire 2 wave serpents to kill a squad of pathfinders. That will take 6 waveserpents to kill my patfinders completly and maybe both prisms to kill my skyray. At that point my army is basically untouched and I can return fire probably downing 3-4 serpents quite easily thanks to no shielding.

The problem in that game was I went first. I could had down 2 serpents at game start, but decided to split fire at 4 targets with my broadsides. If it wasn't for the serpent shielding I could had possibly had wiped out all his serpents in turn one.

Another note was besides my broadsides, and seeker missiles, I wasn't bothering with denying cover. I was more focused on raising bs due to gtg. Even still my tides and sniper kroot alone was doing well enough to glance death his vehicles by turn 3. Turn 4 would had easly been an annilation since I downed all his serpents in turn 3.

Again I doubt that was even a viable tactic, because he was killing my pathfinders. Also it's save to say Kroot returning fire on dire avengers with triple tap tanks to an Ethereal is rather nasty. Would had been nice to get the extra bs bonus though.

I really don't see how Eldar can really out shoot Tau. I can see Eldar outranging Tau. Hince why I take rail guns over high yield missiles.

The funny thing about the eldar player was he actaully was gonna do what you said until he noticed 10 shots that can still touch him, the kroot could too, but they can only glance any way.

If anything I might add krootox to my kroot which would had been helpful in this game.

The unit that was really doing anything was the deathspinner. I underestimated that unit. A 48" range large blast barrage weapon is rather good, than it can turn into a turrent weapon that's a flammer. I had a hard time getting to it due to it being behind his fire prism and behind his serpents.

Also what helped he tried to hit my right flank hard, and by turn 3 I was able to pull my left flank around to come help the right. Also the right retreated back to the center. Looking at my deployment and terrain he was rather had to deploy like that. He couldn't spread out like talking about it.

I think I will look and see if I need los to fire a seeker. I have to remember it has like a 90 inch range and I just need one marker to use it.

[bluepowerade]

No doubt Tau would be the most challenging of opponents. All those points invested into Holofields are for naught when facing them. I struggle against Tau because it is the situation your opponent faced, shoot the markerlights or the units that actually damage? Personally I would try to skirt outside of LOS or range of the marker lights, as they can't touch the entire board.

Warp spiders are fantastic Riptide killers, as their weapons are assault 2 str 7 and on a roll of 6 to wound are ap 1. They are amazingly fast and can stay behind terrain very well and try to avoid a majority of return fire by being out of line of sight.

I think with a WK I add a very threatening units (especially to your Broadsides) that can absorb a pretty significant amount of firepower before going down. That turn of focused fire allows the rest of my army to perform its duties with much less fear.

However, your list is one that I would really struggle with. I have considered adding some swooping hawks, as they are surprisingly effective against non-MEQ units, especially since they can blind tau pretty easily.

I think the Nightspinner would be neat, but I'm not sure about it yet. It is a unit I have been wanting to test out. Being able to fire barrages at long range would be pretty neat.

As for my one foot slogging units, they will sit as far back out of LOS as possible. They will pop out with the heavy weapon, shoot, then run back and stay on their objective as best as possible.

I think the only way to fight Tau with guns is in a skirmisher fashion. Get up in their grill and take advantage of move shoot run and try to stay hidden as much as possible.

[bluepowerade]

After playing a game, I modified my list some:

HQ - Spiritseer - 70 pts

Troop - 10 x Dire avengers - 265 pts
Wave Serpent
holofields, TL scatter laser

Troop - 10 x Dire avengers - 265 pts
Wave Serpent
holofields, TL scatter laser

Troop - 12 x Guardians - 128 pts
brightlance

troop - 5 x wraithguard - 295 pts
wave serpent
holofields

fast attack - 8 x swooping hawks - 153 pts
exarch, sunrifle

fast attack - warp spiders - 152 pts

heavy support - fire prism - 140 pts
holofields

heavy support - 2 x war walkers - 140 pts
2 x 2 x scatter laser

heavy support - wraithknight - 240 pts

I swapped the fire dragons for some scoring wraithguard, which I thought couldn't hurt as I was limited on my scoring options. I swapped out the crimson hunter for some hawks, as they are fantastic anti infantry, and it was an area I was lacking in. The wraithknight was adjusted to save a huge amount of points, and add some very nice str 10 goodness. I also threw in some war walkers with my spare points as I have heard great things about them.

[chicop76]

I like the wraith edition. The possibilty of having a +2 save for the unit is rather nice.

Just wanted to point out that Tau suits are immune to blind. The only modes you are blinding will be firewarriors and kroot. Since the vehicles can have immune to blind as well. It's the cheapest possible upgrade you take, it's darn close to being free and any Tau player will take it. Oh and pathfinders can be blinded.

[bluepowerade]

I like the wraith edition. The possibilty of having a +2 save for the unit is rather nice.

Just wanted to point out that Tau suits are immune to blind. The only modes you are blinding will be firewarriors and kroot. Since the vehicles can have immune to blind as well. It's the cheapest possible upgrade you take, it's darn close to being free and any Tau player will take it. Oh and pathfinders can be blinded.

Exactly. With an assault 3 str 3 weapon, along with the large blast that ignores cover and blind basically eliminates an entire pathfinder unit each turn. Deep strike in, shoot, run behind cover. Jump into the sky, repeat.

[chicop76]

Exactly. With an assault 3 str 3 weapon, along with the large blast that ignores cover and blind basically eliminates an entire pathfinder unit each turn. Deep strike in, shoot, run behind cover. Jump into the sky, repeat.

Yeah it's a lot of fire power. I forgot the large blast ignores cover. Than it's a very sound ideal. Is it a 4, if it is it will be effective against fire warriors as well.

[Dave Mcturk]

unless i am mistaken hawkz now skyleap in their movement phase not at the end of a turn ?

[eris]

unless i am mistaken hawkz now skyleap in their movement phase not at the end of a turn ?

They always skyleaped.. skylept.. whatever.. during the movement phase. The difference is that they're not prohibited from leaping in the same turn they arrive. That makes them very inefficient if you just want to use the grenade pack.

[chicop76]

They always skyleaped.. skylept.. whatever.. during the movement phase. The difference is that they're not prohibited from leaping in the same turn they arrive. That makes them very inefficient if you just want to use the grenade pack.

Umm yes they are. They can't jump on the turn they come in and can only jump off at the start of the next movement phase.

However they can deep strike where they like on a dime and can run shoot, or shoot rut. The Exarch can give the unit hit and run, but the lord deters them from actually getting assaulted. +2/+4 invulnerable if placed right can really help the unit survive long enough to sky leap back.

I though about using shadowsun with them as allies. If done right they can get a +2 cover save and will have 2 melta hitting nice juicy targets. The problem with leaping back you have to jump with out shadowsun who have to detach during the aaasult phase. I need to re read the ic leaving and joining a unit again would be nice to throw 2 grenade packs instead of one.

The sun rifle is nice since it shoot 3 times and blinds, the lord blinds everything wthin 6", and the lord blinds in melee as well with an ap 3 sword, so if assaulted you have 3x to blind the unit you shoot at.

The nice thing about this unit it can toast any light unit trying to hide. Like a tech marine with a cannon for examble or a barrae special team.

Against 12 fire warriors you could probably kill 4 in cover with the grenade pack, and than shoot 30 times kiling about 5 more guys. However pathfinders would just die you in th open, or even in cover.

The scarry thing if you take the lord you have the option to assault next turn which having a 2ft threat range shouldn't be hard to 0pull off.

The only thing I don't like is you have to sit a turn to be shot at and only can sky leap at the start of the movement.

[bluepowerade]

Yep Chicop is completely right. They can't jump the turn they come in, but at the start of the movement.

Plus you start them on the board but completely hidden, skyleap your first turn, and they are guaranteed to come in next turn. They don't scatter, drop their str 4 grenade large blast that ignores cover (and you can use the exarchs BS to reduce the scatter by 5), then run behind cover to eliminate return fire.

This unit I think would do great against Tau, as they have a huge advantage of being bunched up for fire support. This would allow you to drop the hawks in at max range on the outside of the Tau blob and pick on the outer units with as little return fire as possible.

Plus if they can get close enough to a vehicle, the turn after they deep strike in they can assault it with their haywire grenades and almost guarantee a kill against any vehicle.

I was considering trying their phoenix lord, as he is the cheapest and has some pretty neat tricks up his sleeve. with hit and run, they could make a very good harassment unit.

And the final and possibly greatest benefit to swooping hawks is as late game objective contesters. Come in on turn 5 or 6 right next to an objective (preferably in the enemy deployment zone) and if you have second turn and the game ends you just lost the opponent 3 victory points and got yourself one with line breaker, and there is nothing the enemy could do about it.

[bluepowerade]

And the large blast is ap 4 chicop

[chicop76]

Yep Chicop is completely right. They can't jump the turn they come in, but at the start of the movement.

Plus you start them on the board but completely hidden, skyleap your first turn, and they are guaranteed to come in next turn. They don't scatter, drop their str 4 grenade large blast that ignores cover (and you can use the exarchs BS to reduce the scatter by 5), then run behind cover to eliminate return fire.




This unit I think would do great against Tau, as they have a huge advantage of being bunched up for fire support. This would allow you to drop the hawks in at max range on the outside of the Tau blob and pick on the outer units with as little return fire as possible.

Plus if they can get close enough to a vehicle, the turn after they deep strike in they can assault it with their haywire grenades and almost guarantee a kill against any vehicle.

I was considering trying their phoenix lord, as he is the cheapest and has some pretty neat tricks up his sleeve. with hit and run, they could make a very good harassment unit.

And the final and possibly greatest benefit to swooping hawks is as late game objective contesters. Come in on turn 5 or 6 right next to an objective (preferably in the enemy deployment zone) and if you have second turn and the game ends you just lost the opponent 3 victory points and got yourself one with line breaker, and there is nothing the enemy could do about it.



The unit is ideal when fast attack counts as scoring.

[Dave Mcturk]

with variable turn rules, that is surely impossibly risky on turn 5, still randomly chancy on turn 6, and keeping them off till turn 7 a complete waste of points ?,,, 'gamblers anonymous' ...

and think their PL should be renamed crying in the wind ! [like tears in the rain]

[chicop76]

with variable turn rules, that is surely impossibly risky on turn 5, still randomly chancy on turn 6, and keeping them off till turn 7 a complete waste of points ?,,, 'gamblers anonymous' ...

and think their PL should be renamed crying in the wind ! [like tears in the rain]

Tournaments are timed and usually stop at turn 5 whic wouldn't realy be an issue.

At turns 6 and 7 it really hurts most eldar armies any way. Turn 5 is the contest and snag objectives at the last second. Going to turn 6 and especally turn 7 hurts eldar a lot any way.

[bluepowerade]

Again i agree with Chicop.

Eldar lack the toughness to really survive prolonged battles. Either they destroy their opponent early in the game, or they hope for the game to end on turn five and move all their fast units into position.

In terms of competitive play, the Eldar actually have I believe the most late game objective grabbers/contesters. With all their jetbikes, swooping hawks, and the remnant of glory with the wings that lets you super run, they can quite possibly contest every one of the opponents objectives on that last turn with ease.

And the hawks get their points throughout the game by deep striking in and jumping back up throughout the game. And with them it is not at all about killing as many points to match their cost. Their value comes in terms of being pure annoyance. If you deep strike in and hit a flank, and the opponent moves to intercept, you jump back up and you've now gotten the opponent out of position. If they ignore them, you continue harrassing their units or pop a tank on the flank. plus, the value in contesting an objective last turn and quite possibly single handedly winning the game is priceless