1850 Eldar allied to guard tournament list

[G00dySmiley]

Eldar

Spiritseer 70

DAx5 65
WS w/ TL SL & cannon 130

DAx5 65
WS w/ TL SL & cannon 130

DAx5 65
WS w/ TL SL & cannon 130

wraithknight 240

reapers x4 w/ exarch who has fast shot and marksman's eye 150

IG Ally

Command squad w/ 4 snipers and vox 75

Marbo 65

vetran squad w/ 3 meltas 100

chimera w/ heavy flamerx2 55

2x vendettas 260

manticore w/ heavy flamer 160

Fortification

Aegis defense line w/ icaris lasgun 85

totals 1850


The idea fluffwise is partially explaining why my eldar are using an imperial fortification

this is possibly for an 1850 tourney

spiritseer goes with the reapers behid the line for a 2+ cover provided he suceeds w/ conceal

command squad goes behind he line near the gun in case they want to fire it and reapers shoot at things with ap3 shots tucked away with the manticore mearby. and as much out of LOS as possible.

wraithknight jets around popping things and trying to assault things

marbo comes in and throws his charges somewhere useful, manticore serves similar purpose hammering large blasts..

the vandettas homefull take care of any flyers not gotten by the reaper exarch and 2 lascun intercept shots.

dire avengers and serpenta go near and hold objectives putting out large salvos of shots

vetran squad in chimera races up to flame/melta things and hopefully hold an objective throwing out their shots

[eris]

Is it worth swapping the Spiritseer for an Autarch? You have the two fliers and Marbo in reserve, so the Autarch would help you either get them all in early if the opponents anti-air is lacking or delay them so they come in after the opponents.

[G00dySmiley]

Is it worth swapping the Spiritseer for an Autarch? You have the two fliers and Marbo in reserve, so the Autarch would help you either get them all in early if the opponents anti-air is lacking or delay them so they come in after the opponents.

i do not think it will effec tthem as we are not battle brothers and only allies of convenience, i could ask the tournament organiser but i plan to shoot down my opponents gun emplacments first thing if they have any

i checked and yes the reserve manipulation will not apply to allies. even battle brothers so it wouldn't help, I woudl love to use a solitarch with mantle, fusion gun, laser lance, bike and banshee mask but that is 150 points and i can't really cut that out and have it woth the trouble that i cna think of and I need conceal for the reapers

[G00dySmiley]

the list did not so good this weekend, itwould do good against alot of armies and was fun to play. but weaknesses vs necrons wraiths are really fast, and while my reapers took out a flyer the turn it came in they got caught iun combat, the wraithknight ripped up some wraiths and the reapers broke and hten recovered... then back on the gun to take out another flyer but i want to be anti gun line, a line just sitting and shooting is vunerable and I want a mobile eldar army as i think it will be more competative

Ultimatly I have changed the list in favor of almost pure grva tnak spam.

solitarch (banshee mask, mantle, laser lance, fusion gun, bike) 150

DA x5 65
WS cannon and scater laser 130

DA x5 65
WS cannon and scater laser 130

DA x5 65
WS cannon and scater laser 130

DA x5 65
WS cannon and scater laser 130

crimson hunter 160
crimson hunter exarch 180

fire prism 125
fire prism 125
wraithknight 240

options beyond that with remaining 90 points include

simplest- holo fields for all 6 grav tanks

dropping 1 fire prism and no hol0 fields on anything but the single fire prism and downgrade the crimson hunter exarch to a regular crimson hunter to get asurmen the pheonix lord, put him in a wave serpent with one group of dire avengers for a really powerful group. shooting and possibly splitting him off and assaulting somthing scary. hoping for the reroll 1 warlord trait but he is still strong without it, and 4 I7 str 5 ap 2 mastercrafted with soul razer attacks are pretty beefy, and with 2+ armor, 4++ and 3++ in challanges , in melee can even instant kill eternal warriors. if i go this would probably drop the solitarch for 1x war walker with scatter laser/lance and i still get to keep holo fields on everythign that way.. though i do lose reserve roll manipulation

[Angelofblades]

You're missing Holofields on all the tanks, Drop exarch on the CH to fund the points. You're going to want a Bikeseer to hand out guide and Prescience to the prisms. Personally, I prefer Nightspinners, they're more versatile than prisms imho.

[Tyrendian]

You're missing Holofields on all the tanks

he said that...


Personally, I prefer Nightspinners, they're more versatile than prisms imho.

more versatile? Prisms have three different modes of firing, each of which is pretty much ideal against one common type of target (Squads of Marines, Terminators and heavy tanks respectively). How does the Night Spinner compare to that? Admittedly it has pinning and is better against squadrons of light vehicles (how common are those though? I can't really think of many besides War Walkers and Tetras that are worth the effort to kill, and killing them is a Wave Serpent's dream job anyway), but other than that I fail to see how it is even nearly as good as a Prism...

[Angelofblades]

more versatile? Prisms have three different modes of firing, each of which is pretty much ideal against one common type of target (Squads of Marines, Terminators and heavy tanks respectively). How does the Night Spinner compare to that? Admittedly it has pinning and is better against squadrons of light vehicles (how common are those though? I can't really think of many besides War Walkers and Tetras that are worth the effort to kill, and killing them is a Wave Serpent's dream job anyway), but other than that I fail to see how it is even nearly as good as a Prism...


Heck, they're better than prisms. I don't know about you, but everything I've fired my Prism at, has some sort of cover save - be it a 5+, a 4+ or a 2+, it has a cover save because it was behind something, or there was a unit in the way, or a dam tree or a soda can.

Barrage on the other hand, doesn't care if your hiding behind an ADL, you're not getting cover saves. Also, I'm not sure about you, but I don't know of many vehicles that can take a S8 shot to side armor.

The other thing about the prism, for it to shoot, it can be shot back at. That's not a problem that exists for the NS.

Now let's look at these great firing modes of the prism.

S9 AP1 Lance shot. That's so nice. What did you need to kill so bad that bright lances on wave serpents couldn't do it? Also, let's say for example, an opponent is going for every possible cover save they can get on their vehicle. A predator or vindicator - hull down, taking a S9 shot vs AV12 is actually worse off than taking a S8 shot to side armor w/out a cover save. Also, I'm sure I don't need to talk about collateral damage.

S7 AP2 Blast. Again, cover saves determined from the direction of the shot, plus it's a small blast. The Doomweaver is a large blast S7/8 (depending on target) Large Blast with possible AP1. You're hitting and affecting more vehicles, or more models in a blob, or more MC's packed together. Basically more everything!

S5 AP 3 Large Blast Vs S7/8 AP 6 Large Blast, I'd take the Doom Weaver anyday.

Let's not forget that it has a Torrent shot too.

The NS is a great platform for sticking a CTM on. 3 NS w/ CTM and HF, turn 1 pretty much gives you an alpha strike

With how much better Wave Serpents are, they almost eliminate the need for prisms. What Waveserpent's can't do, is take down chunks of infantry. The NS can and can do against infantry with multiple wounds (Nobz) or units with varying degrees of armor saves. The monofilament rule gives you that ability to tackle any infantry regardless of armor save.

Now, if you're playing on a table with little or no terrain, then hell yeah the fire prism is better

[Tyrendian]

Heck, they're better than prisms. I don't know about you, but everything I've fired my Prism at, has some sort of cover save - be it a 5+, a 4+ or a 2+, it has a cover save because it was behind something, or there was a unit in the way, or a dam tree or a soda can.

Barrage on the other hand, doesn't care if your hiding behind an ADL, you're not getting cover saves. Also, I'm not sure about you, but I don't know of many vehicles that can take a S8 shot to side armor.

The other thing about the prism, for it to shoot, it can be shot back at. That's not a problem that exists for the NS.

Now let's look at these great firing modes of the prism.

S9 AP1 Lance shot. That's so nice. What did you need to kill so bad that bright lances on wave serpents couldn't do it? Also, let's say for example, an opponent is going for every possible cover save they can get on their vehicle. A predator or vindicator - hull down, taking a S9 shot vs AV12 is actually worse off than taking a S8 shot to side armor w/out a cover save. Also, I'm sure I don't need to talk about collateral damage.

S7 AP2 Blast. Again, cover saves determined from the direction of the shot, plus it's a small blast. The Doomweaver is a large blast S7/8 (depending on target) Large Blast with possible AP1. You're hitting and affecting more vehicles, or more models in a blob, or more MC's packed together. Basically more everything!

S5 AP 3 Large Blast Vs S7/8 AP 6 Large Blast, I'd take the Doom Weaver anyday.

Let's not forget that it has a Torrent shot too.

The NS is a great platform for sticking a CTM on. 3 NS w/ CTM and HF, turn 1 pretty much gives you an alpha strike

With how much better Wave Serpents are, they almost eliminate the need for prisms. What Waveserpent's can't do, is take down chunks of infantry. The NS can and can do against infantry with multiple wounds (Nobz) or units with varying degrees of armor saves. The monofilament rule gives you that ability to tackle any infantry regardless of armor save.

Now, if you're playing on a table with little or no terrain, then hell yeah the fire prism is better

fair points, especially concerning cover saves. Just some counter points:

As I said, Eldar have tons of tools to deal with lots of infantry and/or light vehicles, from Wave Serpents (whats not to like about 4xS6 + D6+1xS7 ignore cover? that's probably gonna kill more than the Spinner... especially light vehicles...) to War Walkers to War Spiders to our humble Shuriken weapons in the case of infantry. So you don't really need the Night Spinner for that - not that it's bad at the job though. The S9 Lance on the other hand is our best tool against AV14 - heck, it's one of the best tools in existence except for a Zoanthrope's Warp Lance or a Meltagun, and it's got three to ten times the range of those. And who takes Lances on Serpents anyway? ;)

The small blast is admittedly the least useful of the modes - against 2+ armour the Night Spinner is probably better, and it most definitely wins when firing at Battlesuits or Nobz where ID comes into play (although the Suits will have drones to absorb your one or two rends... Nobz are in trouble though).

The large blast is actually better against Marines in area terrain that the Spinner, and not much worse when they're behind an Aegis.

Also, while the Spinner stays out of trouble, the Prism basically taunts your opponent into shooting it with its permanent 4+ cover save sparing the rest of your force that firepower, and it should be fast enough to get into your opponent's flank on turn two when played aggressively. With that kind of mobility (maybe even with a CTM, although i'm not completely sold on those yet) both LoS and Side Armour should be achievable unless your table is absolutely cluttered, in which case the Prisms are safe(r) as well.

All in all, I have to admit I underestimated the Spinner - the fact it's S8 hadn't really stuck with me yet... Which of the two is better depends on your and your opponent's army I'd say - I see quite a lot of Marines and Land Raiders in my parts, so I was kinda partial to the Prism... looking again at the list, we do have a decent amount of heavy-duty AV/Termie killers already, so the Spinner might actually fit in better... or maybe one of each?

[G00dySmiley]

You're missing Holofields on all the tanks, Drop exarch on the CH to fund the points. You're going to want a Bikeseer to hand out guide and Prescience to the prisms. Personally, I prefer Nightspinners, they're more versatile than prisms imho.

personally i have found i prefer prisms for the better ap. denying cover saves against 3+ armor at ap6 is not as good as denying a 3+ armor and forcing a 4+ cover. I can see the argument from the other side to where rends are good and against horde they are just plain better.. but the prism focused just eats high armor str 9 ap1 lance... hoe perfect is it.

now i would love a farseer on a bike to guide the prisms.. but i don't know where to get the points.. i need the autarch for reserve manipulation and need min 115 for the farseer on a bike, and helps to throw in a conceal lock and just turbo boost the two while casting conceal so that is another 50.. alternativly i could give him mantle of the laughing god make him the warlord and such, but i still need my flyers to not come in first or they will just die.

mantle bike'd farseer solo is 155

altrnativly the warlock on a bike alongside the farseer is 165 but gives a chance to pass the wound to the lock then do 2+ cover... but it is not rerollable so there is that .

if i went mantle bike'd farseer then i would still want a autarch and so min 70 points plus gear... i could also just do yriel as at 140 points i think he is worth the pooints but in this list he goes with 5 dire avengers which seems liek a losing option. but i am at the dice god's mercy for flyers i would be hoping for shrikers gaze so roll 2 divination powers and one primaris hoping one of those 2 dice is a 6

[SaganGree]

Another major point in the Nightspinners favor is Barrage cannot be stressed enough... why? Because Wounds are allocated based on the center position! Character assassination is a huge must in this ed. And the more ways you have to dish it, the better off you'll be in the end.

[G00dySmiley]

if it was higher AP i would liek it better ap6 means even if they fail a look out sir they have to fail it on a rand which is to say hit/// 1/6 to woiund and 1/6 on top of that to fail olook out sir if ic, 50% if just a character/

[SaganGree]

Remember, its doesn't HAVE to be just characters... Heavy Weapons and the like are my primary targets... and Commissars... oh the look on a Guard players face when his Blob runs off the board

[Angelofblades]

if it was higher AP i would liek it better ap6 means even if they fail a look out sir they have to fail it on a rand which is to say hit/// 1/6 to woiund and 1/6 on top of that to fail olook out sir if ic, 50% if just a character/

Well characters aren't the only important members of a unit. A Space Marines tactical squad has 2 other important members of the unit, the Heavy and Special weapons models. Ork boyz have models that carry either rokkit launchers or big shootas. Oh and the doomweaver instant kills nobz, heehee.
IG Infantry platoons and veteran squads have a whole host of heavy and special weapon models, none of which get look out sir rolls. Killing a character is really just the icing on that cake. Honestly, if I was given a choice whether I wanted to kill a Sgt or the ML and Plasma marines in a tactical squad, I'd choose the heavy weapon and special weapon models over the sgt.

[G00dySmiley]

that is a fair poinr since everybody in my meta brings long fangs or devistators or the scout spam with missile launchers in them maybe i will try one spinner and one prism