Tau: frogs, fish, or camels?

[Drunkencorgimaster]

I have never played Tau or followed their lore much, but at some point I thought I understood them to have descended from frogs or fish or something aquatic. There is a guy at our local store who glues Tau together (I'm not sure if he actually plays them or not) who claims they are not aquatic because they have hoofs. I must admit that makes sense. He says they are "desert creatures" -cue the DUNE soundtrack. So which is it? Wet or dry? Help me Greater Goodies. You're my only hope.

[Psychosplodge]

Cows.

I don't recall anything suggesting they're aquatic.

[Wolfshade]

No they are (or were) from the plains...

[DrLove42]

They have hooves. They are horses or cows....

The only reason people have ever said "fish" is cos of the vehicle names (Barracude, Piranha, Devilfish, Hammerhead, Orca, Manta...)

[Blackmonkey0]

They're desert ants grown big.

[Nabterayl]

They're clearly ungulates. Only the fire caste is descended from plains-dwellers, according to the codex.

[Drunkencorgimaster]

They have hooves. They are horses or cows....

The only reason people have ever said "fish" is cos of the vehicle names (Barracude, Piranha, Devilfish, Hammerhead, Orca, Manta...)

Okay, that makes sense then.

[Morgrim]

I think another reason for people thinking they're aquatic is the lack of noses and blueish skin. I'm guessing the former is just them not having scent as a major sense, and the later is they're supposed to have a cobalt histidines instead of hemoglobin giving them purple-blue blood instead of red.

[Chris*ta]

They have hooves. They are horses or cows....

The only reason people have ever said "fish" is cos of the vehicle names (Barracude, Piranha, Devilfish, Hammerhead, Orca, Manta...)

Remembering of course that these are the identifiers the Imperium uses. Or am I making that up?

The blue skin does lead towards aquatic ...

Anyone who has that old BL book Xenology (iirc) who wants to comment?

[Cpt Codpiece]

the first tau codex laid it out quite well, all caste's are derived form the same basic species, but since they developed rapidly they evolved into their caste genus roles quicker than 'our' evolution scale.

if we assume fire caste is the closest to the initial baseline of the species as they are the most plentiful, and described in the codex as the most populace.

they are cows,deer,orix,gnu,camel,zebra,horse just not dugong!

as for their nose, i think the gash on their faces would be quite an effective olfactory system, it looks well muscled and is defiantly able to take in a decent chunk of the air around it to smell or sense what is going on....... though i guess messy if they sneeze.

[Chris*ta]

Are fire caste most plentiful? I know they're the (vast) majority of the Tau's military, but aren't earth caste workers/labourers? Wouldn't they're be more of them, at least outside the context of the tabletop?

[Necron2.0]

The Tau are Necrontyr. Or, more precisely, the Tau are a genetically engineered off-shoot of the Necrontyr, reseeded on an overlooked, out-of-the-way system by a renegade cadre of Necrontyr. Known in the modern era as Ethereals, these original Necrontyr turned their back on the "War in Heaven", and went into stasis long before their brethren turned to the false promise of metal, assuming the universe would purge itself in fire. They emerged millennia later, determined to restart their race, quite literally from the very beginning.

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And no, not a bit of that was canon. I made most of it up, although there has been speculation for quite some time that the Tau are really an offshoot of the Necrontyr.

[Dalleron]

I thought prevailing theory had them being "interfered" with by the Eldar. Would the elder mess with a new race even if it was necron, or just because it was necron? Maybe

[DrLove42]

I think the long standing theory of them being Eldar modified (particularly the Ethereals) is most common.

Being Warp Null they are one of the best threats to chaos.....

[Cpt Codpiece]

necrons have normal legs, tau have bestial 'long foot' and :) cameltoes LOL (and yes i know some flayed ones have those legs, but they suck)

but the thory of tampering by a c'tan or necrons could well be a solid one. necrontyr DNA mixed with the indigenous horse/cow men.

i dont see the eldar as benefactors to an alien race though, way too narcissistic for that.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

necrons have normal legs, tau have bestial 'long foot' and :) cameltoes LOL (and yes i know some flayed ones have those legs, but they suck)

but the thory of tampering by a c'tan or necrons could well be a solid one. necrontyr DNA mixed with the indigenous horse/cow men.Keep in mind that the Necrons' metal bodies needn't be perfect matches of their originals. The human-skeleton design of them was likely made as a morale-weapon against the humanoid Old Ones/Eldar/Orks etc. The Necrontyr could've been hooved and we wouldn't know it. Maybe the Flayed Ones' legs are a result of those animalistic machines rebuilding those legs into a form they're more comfortable with?

[Cpt Codpiece]

why would they go through the biotransference into a body that was not their own? why create the necrodermis of the ctan in a shape that was not based off their own?

we copy what we know at a personal level. all indicators point to necrons having humanoid limbs (or humans having necronoid/tyrian limbs).

flayed ones with back jointed ankles would probably be to add maneuverability/speed rather than a longing for the past.... as they are essentially khorne berzerkers.

[Nabterayl]

Are fire caste most plentiful? I know they're the (vast) majority of the Tau's military, but aren't earth caste workers/labourers? Wouldn't they're be more of them, at least outside the context of the tabletop?
As far as I understand, yes, the earth caste is the most plentiful of the castes.

[Necron2.0]

I thought prevailing theory had them being "interfered" with by the Eldar.

I've heard that theory too and it is, frankly, pointedly ridiculous, from my point of view at least. The Eldar are the most psychically attuned race in the universe. Excusing the DE, even many of their weapons are psychically attuned. If the Eldar could create a brand new race (is there evidence for that?) I submit that it would be completely unfathomable to them to create a race that wasn't at some degree psychic, and there is no way in hell they'd be philosophically or technically capable of creating a race with no warp presence at all.

However, the Necrontyr actually were researching the genetic re-engineering of their species prior to the C'Tan arrival. They already have no warp presence. The iconography between the Tau and the Necrons is superficially similar. And as far as the Tau not looking like the Necrons, that is correct, but we have no idea what the Necrontyr looked like. There could have been some body modification done when the Necrontyr were re-engineered into the Tau and as for the body shape of the Necrons, well ... consider Illuminor Szeras.

http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/3/2055/Szeras.jpg

[Daemonette666]

I thought they were one of the races, the "Old One Ones" created in their endless war to fight firstly the Necrons, then secondly - Chaos. They have 5 castes, Elemental - religious, earth, - engineering, air - pilots, space faring, water - merchants and politicians, fire - warriors.

Their genetic make up seems to be a combination of camel (feet), fish (head), horse (legs), salamanders/ skinks - smooth grey skin. Their genetic ability to deny the powers of Chaos seems to be inbuilt, while their innate ability to improve their intelligence and design new technical marvels at a rate that would make mankind (the Imperium) jealous if they were not xenophobic seems genetically bred into them as well.

There was a rumour that the Emperor had a hand it their beginnings, r that he knew of the Old Ones intentions to use them as a weapon against Chaos back in the days of the Great Crusade. But anything said by GW before has probably been written out, ret-conned, and is no longer cannon.

[Cpt Codpiece]

all fair points necron2.0
as for the illuminator....... he is well known for monkeying with biology/tech/whatever programs necrons have.... just like fabius bile..... im sure he added his upgrades to himself after testing it on the lower forms of life, just look at the special rule he has, easily he could have liked the way spiders/crabs/whatever moved and chosen to adapt for himself.... its only him that is centaur like.

but yes necrons do seem very much the instigators of the tau evolution :)

[bfmusashi]

There are parties still unidentified in 40k so we shouldn't assume it's one of the players already on the board.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

why would they go through the biotransference into a body that was not their own? why create the necrodermis of the ctan in a shape that was not based off their own?The huge difference would be "transfered into a mechanical body", changing the lower legs a smidge wouldn't be as big of a deal. C'tan loved feeding upon terror, so they'd guide the design of the mechanical bodies towards something intimidating towards those they mean to terrify (humanoid races). Pre-enslaved C'tan (dunno about post-enslaved) could shapeshift on a whim - we have no idea what the original bodies made for them billions of years ago looked like.

There isn't anything huge in the fluff pointing towards it, but if we're entertaining the idea of Tau = Necrontyr, that's a decent/simple explanation for the physical difference between Tau bodies and metal Necron bodies.

[Necron2.0]

Actually, the true origin of the Tau came with the realization that Grinding Wheel needed to sell more plastic crack. ;)

Personally, the only reason why I suggest they're of the Necrontyr is because I think it makes a more interesting story.

If we want to limit this to a pure discussion of species, then I'd say the answer to whether they are fish, horse, cow or frogs is, "Yes." I'd say they are Chimeras almost by definition. They're not Terran, which means they do not have to be "either/or" when it comes to Earth parallels.

And don't forget to add "fowl" to the list. According to the fluff, the air caste originally had wings (which also lends credence to the notion their original forms were genetically malleable).

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

I've heard that theory too and it is, frankly, pointedly ridiculous, from my point of view at least. The Eldar are the most psychically attuned race in the universe. Excusing the DE, even many of their weapons are psychically attuned. If the Eldar could create a brand new race (is there evidence for that?) I submit that it would be completely unfathomable to them to create a race that wasn't at some degree psychic, and there is no way in hell they'd be philosophically or technically capable of creating a race with no warp presence at all.Keep in mind, the warp-blankness of the Tau might be the very reason the Eldar engineered them (if they did). The Eldars' souls are so very vulnerable to Chaos, having a warpblank, subservient race to act as a proxy near warpstorms, on croneworlds etc. (And could also be why the Chaos Gods sealed the Tau off w/ a warpstorm, preventing the Eldar from raising them as a subservient race.) Would be a huge boon to them. Plus, the faction of Eldar rumored to be involved (Harlequins) do actually have warp-negative members, the Solitaires.

Perhaps the Tau could be the result of a combination of both theories? The Necrontyr were styled into the Necrons were styled by the C'tan to fight the Old Ones, who had massive warp powers, and lived before the warp got all Chaos-y. Now that the warp is flooded by Chaos, the Eldar attempted to recreate a Necrontyr slave-race to fight back the warp like the Necrons fought the Old Ones, only for Chaos to interfere before the plan was complete.

[Wildeybeast]

And don't forget to add "fowl" to the list. According to the fluff, the air caste originally had wings (which also lends credence to the notion their original forms were genetically malleable).

They're described as having membranous wings, much more akin to bats than birds. Personally, I feel we are over thinking this here. The diversity of their evolution is pretty much in line with the dominant animal types on earth (dinosaurs and more particularly mammals) and their technological advancements are in keeping with those of humanity (look how far we have come in 2000 years). I don't see any reason why the influence of outside species is required for their creation. The Eldar link is based of a box-out in the old codex where Eldrad insinuates he knows something of the role the Tau will play in the future of the galaxy. It seems a big leap (too big for me) from knowing something of their future (especially as he is psychic) to having been directly involved in their creation.

[kier]

If you count the book Xenology as cannon then it is quite clear that the eldar went vary much out of there way to create the ethereal cast. the questions are why they did it and whether the tau had been manipulated before the ethereals were created.

[Nabterayl]

I also think this is overthinking. The tau are just the tau. Also, ditto that they haven't actually advanced particularly fast. The Mont'au was fought with "primitive firearms," and killed more people from disease than combat, according to the codex - putting it somewhere in the 16th to early 20th century range of human development, at the outside. That war ended in 791.M36. They didn't establish their first extraterrestrial colony until 502.M37, just over 700 years later. That doesn't seem especially impressive. Even if the Mont'au was fought using 16th century technology ... how many people think it's going to take us until the 2200s to establish our first extraterrestrial colony? And remember, the tau were using "conventionally fueled" spacecraft for a full 1,400 years after their first colony was established. I'll be very disappointed in us if we're using the same propulsion technologies in our spacecraft 1,400 years after our first colony, whenever that is.

[Bigred]

The only "big secret" I've been told about Tau from folks who would know is that Tau lay eggs.

Have fun with that one.

[Cpt Codpiece]

The only "big secret" I've been told about Tau from folks who would know is that Tau lay eggs.

Have fun with that one.

do they come out of their face sphincters?

[Wildeybeast]

I also think this is overthinking. The tau are just the tau. Also, ditto that they haven't actually advanced particularly fast. The Mont'au was fought with "primitive firearms," and killed more people from disease than combat, according to the codex - putting it somewhere in the 16th to early 20th century range of human development, at the outside. That war ended in 791.M36. They didn't establish their first extraterrestrial colony until 502.M37, just over 700 years later. That doesn't seem especially impressive. Even if the Mont'au was fought using 16th century technology ... how many people think it's going to take us until the 2200s to establish our first extraterrestrial colony? And remember, the tau were using "conventionally fueled" spacecraft for a full 1,400 years after their first colony was established. I'll be very disappointed in us if we're using the same propulsion technologies in our spacecraft 1,400 years after our first colony, whenever that is.

Exactly. If our entire species had a clear unity of purpose, competent leaders and a densely packed star cluster with plenty of habitable worlds, we'd be miles ahead of the Tau.

[Drunkencorgimaster]

do they come out of their face sphincters?

That's one way to get egg on your face.