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Nabterayl
06-27-2013, 08:30 PM
Since people sometimes seem to enjoy the particular way in which I break down legal issues of interest to the community. In the event that people are interested in United States v Windsor - a case I find that I personally feel very strongly about anyway - I thought I would go ahead and post one here. One of the things that I like about the Oubliette is the (generally) mature tone with which we can discuss matters of social importance. I hope that this post can serve as the genesis of such a discussion. If you haven’t anything constructive to add to the debate, or you haven’t the wherewithal to say it maturely, kindly direct your efforts to some other corner of the internet.

So ... what happened?

The Windsor in Windsor is Edith Windsor, a New York lesbian. Windsor and her partner got married in Canada, gay marriage jurisdictions in the United States being hard to find at the time. New York then decided it would recognize same-sex marriages performed outside of its borders (later it would decide to permit same-sex marriage within its borders, but that's not relevant to the story). At this point, Windsor and her wife, Thea Spyer, were legally married as a matter of New York law. Spyer died, and willed her entire estate to her wife.

As you may know, inheritance is subject to federal income tax - it is, after all, money that you didn't have before, which is pretty much the definition of income. For its own inscrutable reasons, however, the federal tax code does not require you to pay income tax on an inheritance you receive from a spouse. You can see where this is going. For purposes of New York law, Windsor had inherited from her spouse.

For purposes of federal law, though, Windsor had not inherited from her spouse, because Section 3 of the Defense of Marriage Act defines "spouse" for purposes of federal law as an opposite-sex person (I mean that literally; Section 3 of DOMA amends the aptly named Dictionary Act). As a result, Windsor paid the Treasury her inheritance tax, then sued for a refund. The Treasury refused, since Spyer had not been Windsor's wife for federal law purposes, and Windsor took the government to federal district court on the grounds that Section 3 of DOMA violated the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment. The Fifth Amendment guarantees, among other things, that a person’s “liberty” shall not be taken away without due process of law. “Liberty” has long been understood in an Enlightenment-style context as not just the absence of physical restraint but a bundle of basic human dignity-style rights. As early as the late 19th century, the “liberty” protected by the Fifth Amendment has been held to include the right to marry. But of course, the right to marry does not necessarily mean the right to marry a person of one’s own gender. Windsor contended that it did.

Her argument for that was fairly bold and very much in keeping with the story that is going to be told to future generations about the gay rights struggle. But this is where things begin to get weird from a civics point of view, so before we get to her argument, pay attention to what happened next: the government told the district court that it agreed with Windsor's argument and should be ordered to refund her tax, with interest - while simultaneously continuing to enforce Section 3. While arguing that Windsor should get her tax back because Section 3 was unconstitutional, the government was simultaneously collecting estate taxes from other people in her situation (and otherwise denying legally married same-sex spouses recognition under federal law).

As might be expected when the defendant's argument is, "I am wrong and the plaintiff is right," Windsor won at the district court level. The government then appealed to the Second Circuit Court of Appeals, while continuing to hold Windsor's estate tax. This is where the gentle reader may expect the government to turn its cloak and ask for Section 3 to be upheld and the tax retained. But what happened was even more incredible - the government's argument on appeal was that it should lose the appeal, because Section 3 was unconstitutional. Take a moment to appreciate that: the government said it should lose, lost, and then appealed its loss on the grounds that it should have lost.

Under these circumstances, it is perhaps hardly surprising that the government lost. The government then appealed again, and argued to the Supreme Court that it should ... wait for it ... lose.

And it did.

You can probably tell that I have some feelings about that whole process. But let's get on to the actual opinion.

If you have the good fortune to come across the better sort of popular news reporting about legal issues, you may have heard that the majority opinion in Windsor is ... confusing. This is absolutely true, but to understand why, we need to review a few basics of common law. One of the reasons I dislike popular news reporting about legal issues so much is that it can't seem to decide which story it wants to tell. On the one hand, there is usually a narrative about "winning" and "losing," as if people pay attention to these things strictly for the entertainment value of observing the litigants fight. On the other hand, there is usually a narrative about which laws have been struck down, died, revived, or other such agonistic terms.

Neither narrative is wholly satisfactory. What people really want to know, I think, is what the state of the law is after the case is over. And to understand that, you have to understand how the case arose (which is one reason I spent so much time sketching that) and how one side "won" or "lost," a law "died" or was upheld. Remember that the whole manner in which courts create law (which in a broad sense they are supposed to do; let us have no childish nonsense about "activist" vs. "conservative" judges here) is by articulating principles, so that the legal reasoning in one case can be applied to analogous - but not identical - situations.

So what are the principles that underlie Windsor? The majority spends several pages discussing the proper boundaries of federal action with respect to marriage. "By history and tradition the definition and regulation of marriage, as will be discussed in more detail, has been treated as being within the authority and realm of the separate States." Aha, thinks the reader - this is a federalism argument. "Federalism" is a fancy word for the principle that not everything is something that the federal government can regulate. Yet the majority then says that it is not deciding the case on federalism grounds, because that's unnecessary: "Despite these considerations, it is unnecessary to decide whether this federal intrusion on state power is a violation of the Constitution because it disrupts the federal balance."

So ... apparently we will not be hearing whether Section 3 violates federalism principles after all. What then? The majority turns to a principle that it will restate in several forms: "DOMA seeks to injure the very class New York seeks to protect. By doing so it violates basic due process and equal protection principles applicable to the Federal Government. [citation omitted] The Constitution's guarantee of equality 'must at the very least mean that a bare congressional desire to harm a politically unpopular group cannot' justify disparate treatment of that group." Fair enough, it seems. New York wants to protect same-sex couples (by allowing them to marry); Section 3 does the opposite (by refusing to acknowledge their otherwise valid marriage). Equal protection violation, problem sorted.

Take another look at that sentence and ask yourself what the animating principle is. Is the constitutional problem here that Section 3 seeks to injure the class that New York seeks to protect? Or is it that Section 3 itself reflects a "bare congressional desire to harm a politically unpopular group?"

If the former, then Windsor would seem to stand for the very alarming principle that federal law cannot override state law. That is entirely counter to our tradition of federalism. The federalist principle is that there are some areas as to which the federal government cannot make law at all, but in those areas where the federal government can act, its law is supreme. This is what Article VI, clause 2 of the federal constitution means when it says "the laws of the United States ... shall be the supreme law of the land, anything in the constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding."

It seems incredible that the majority opinion would be based on such an elementary error. So perhaps the real principle is that laws that represent a bare desire to harm a politically unpopular group are unconstitutional.

This is an attractive statement, but also an incredibly strange one to anybody who is even moderately versed in the actual law of equal protection in this country. As I've said before, neither the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment, nor the general concept of "equal protection" means that all laws must treat everybody equally. This is easy to forget when one is caught up in the emotions of a righteous crusade for civil rights, but it is a very ordinary concept. Prior to Windsor, some people were denied the benefits of federal marriage law. After Windsor, some people are denied the benefits of federal marriage law. Let's call them "single people." Why can't single people demand federal marriage rights under equal protection?

The answer is as simple, and as complex, as saying that single people and married people are not the same. The Supreme Court puts it this way: "The equal protection of the laws must coexist with the practical necessity that most legislation classifies for one purpose or another, with resulting disadvantages to various groups or persons."

Because of this tension - on the one hand, we want everybody to enjoy equal protection under the law; on the other hand, taking that principle to its logical extreme means virtually no law is valid - American jurisprudence has a familiar and fairly well understood way to balance. This is the "tiers of scrutiny" or "heightened scrutiny" approach you may have heard about. The principle is this: when a law benefits or harms one class of people over another (say, giving married people benefits that only married people can have, or imposing penalties on convicted criminals that only convicted criminals have to suffer), the question is what the purpose of the law is and what sort of distinction is being made. Roughly, when a law draws a distinction based on something that is very rarely relevant to legitimate state interests in general, the classification must be narrowly tailored and the specific state interest in question must be a "compelling" one. The classic example is race (well, it is now; originally it was religion or national origin). For instance, suppose the United States were suffering from a plague that only infected white people, with a 100% mortality rate, which could only be communicated by shaking right hands. A state could very likely pass a law forbidding white people to shake right hands with each other, in this case, despite the fact that the law would only burden the behavior of white people (a class based on race), because preventing the spread of such a virulent plague is a "compelling" government interest, and the law was as narrowly tailored as possible (it would, for instance, be unconstitutional to pass a law preventing white people to have physical contact with each other - the goal is still compelling, but the method is no longer as narrowly tailored as possible).

At the other end of the spectrum is "rational basis scrutiny," which is applied when the law draws a distinction of the sort that is often relevant to legitimate state interests in general. In this case, the rule requires only that the government's goal be a "legitimate" one, and that the classification be one that a rational person could find legitimate - even if other people disagreed. Married people vs. single people is one such classification - if a law distinguishes between married people and single people (a distinction that is often relevant to legitimate government interests), it need only be based on a set of facts that a rational person could believe to be true. Those facts don't have to be true. They don't have to be popular.

What Windsor really wanted was for the Supreme Court to say that sexual orientation is very rarely relevant to legitimate state interests - to say that it is like race, religion, or national origin. I think that is what most LGBT advocates, including myself, want the law to say. And indeed, most of the legal arguments in Windsor were about precisely this question. This is how we decide equal protection arguments in this country, and the obvious fact that virtually every law creates inequality by the very nature of lawmaking.

But, having raised the specter of equal protection law, the opinion doesn't even mention the tiered scrutiny test. Instead, it recites a variety of ways in which Section 3 makes same-sex marriages "second class marriages." Now, it is undoubtedly true that Section 3 has this effect. But notice what the court goes on to say: "What has been explained to this point should more than suffice to establish that the principal purpose and the necessary effect of this law are to demean those persons who are in a lawful same-sex marriage. This requires the Court to hold, as it now does, that DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the liberty of the person protected by the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution."

I confess to being skeptical that one can, as a matter of principle, determine the "purpose" of a law with any degree of certainty. But let us leave that aside, and assume that it is theoretically possible to determine a law's purpose. What exactly is the rule here? Would it be enough if Section 3's principal purpose were to demean same-sex marriages, even if it didn't really have that effect? What about the other way around - what if a law accidentally had the effect of demeaning same-sex marriages, even though that wasn't its principal purpose? Or does a law have to have both? What if a law does neither? What if a law merely makes a distinction between opposite-sex and same-sex marriages, but manages to do so with neither the purpose nor the effect of demeaning either class?

If the court had simply followed the tiered scrutiny test, none of these questions would arise. Instead, they do. The court never explains the test it is using to make its decision. It never even explains its reasoning. It simply lays out a bunch of statements, and then says, "Somewhere in here is our warrant for holding as we do." What are we supposed to do with that? What is the law?

One might well ask why the court did things this way. We may never know. It may be that in the strictest sense we can't know, any more than we can know why a law was passed. If one were feeling cynical, one might imagine that the court wanted to make a statement on gay marriage without articulating a usable test that would be applied throughout the nation. Yet if that were so, why didn't they simply dismiss for lack of standing? Did they feel like to dismiss both Windsor and Hollingsworth (the Prop. 8 case) without making some sort of statement would be somehow cowardly?

Which brings us to the question of standing. Recall that, from the very first trial, Windsor won, and the government repeatedly urged successive courts that Windsor should win. I am incredulous that, under these circumstances, the court agreed to decide the merits of the case at all.

There is a tendency nowadays to imagine that the Supreme Court is the final arbiter of justice in the land, and the ultimate word on what is the law. This is not true. In fact, Article III of the constitution specifically prohibits the judiciary from issuing what are called "advisory" opinions. In some countries, one can essentially ask the judiciary a hypothetical question, and the judiciary is allowed to answer - to give its legal advice about the query. One can imagine the usefulness of such a situation. However, the constitution prohibits the federal judiciary from doing any such thing. In this country, if one wants mere legal advice from a government official on a constitutional question (e.g., "Hypothetically, what level of scrutiny should be applied to classifications based on sexual orientation?"), one asks the attorney general. The American judiciary is only allowed to decide actual cases. Doing so may require it to state what the law is, but that does not mean that the judicial branch has the power, in general, to state what the law is. First, there must be two parties who disagree over which of them is entitled to redress.

And yet in this case ... where was that? Windsor won. The government agreed that she should win. Where is the disagreement? At every stage of the litigation, the government loudly and forcefully denounced its own cause. Truth be told, the Supreme Court was not allowed to decide this "dispute," but if it wanted to avoid the clarity that the tiered scrutiny analysis would give, it certainly had an easy out.

As you can probably tell, I have some strong negative feelings about the propriety of this case, quite apart for my support for gay marriage from a social policy standpoint, that I have been unable to excise entirely from my summary of what actually happened. But now that we are at the end of the story, I will save my personal reaction for a later post.

So … what is the current state of the law? The actual test we should use going forward is not very clear. What is clear is that the federal government once again takes a state’s word for it as to who is married and who is not (though even this is unclear in some cases – for instance, suppose a same-sex couple is married in state X, and then moves to state Y, whose state laws do not recognize their marriage. Which state’s word is the federal government supposed to take? X, or Y?). DOMA itself is not “dead,” as the headlines like to report. Section 2 of DOMA is still in force, which means that states do not have to recognize other states’ marriages if they don’t want to (see the hypothetical question above for an example of how that might come up).

It should be obvious by now, but just to make it explicit, this opinion does not clearly point to a federal right to same-sex marriage. All it clearly does is prevent the federal government for deciding, for its own purposes, who is and isn’t married. Now, will it lead to a federal right to same-sex marriage? Does it imply that already? Arguably, yes. But arguably no. The reasoning behind the opinion is so unclear, it’s all … arguable.

Psychosplodge
06-28-2013, 05:57 AM
I'm only a third of the way through this so bear with me, but are you saying the government appealed a decision it agreed with in order to get it seen by your highest court?

Nabterayl
06-28-2013, 07:45 AM
Yes, I am.

At this point, one may well ask who the "opponents" of DOMA that the media reported on were in this case. This will strike many people as a technicality, but I will do my best to explain why it is nevertheless interesting.

As you may know, courts in the United States cherish the opportunity to hear from both sides. As long and arduous as the process can be, we have long felt that courts will appreciate the truth more often and more accurately when there are two sides fighting each other in court. Any parent or schoolteacher is familiar with why: if two kids come to you and say, "Hey, isn't it true that if Tommy hit one of us he's bad?" your first thought should not be, "Yes," but "DID Tommy hit you? Why? What does Tommy have to say about it?" You can't just assume that two litigants who agree with each other will tell the whole story. That's why the federal constitution actually requires that both parties in litigation disagree with each other.

Because the executive branch was not fighting the case - indeed, in some ways were actively abetting Windsor - this adversarial element was absent. So the district court allowed lawyers for Congress present the other side. This is a fairly arcane point of federal law, but as far as I can tell they were allowed to do this.

However, these lawyers were not actually defendants in the case. Hence, when "their side" (i.e., the government) lost, they were not allowed to appeal. Instead, the government (which, as it told everybody who would listen, actually WANTED to lose) appealed so the case would keep moving up the court chain. At each step, those same Congressional lawyers presented the other side.

The thing is, as I explained in the Chapterhouse thread, you aren't supposed to be able to appeal an outcome you AGREE with. This is a sort of subtle point, but bear with me: once you have GOTTEN to the next court up, the Congressional lawyers could be allowed to present the other side. But before you can even get there, the real defendant or real plaintiff has to disagree with the court's ruling. A third party can't appeal for you. There are not two sides of the decision to appeal. You simply ask the losing side: do you accept your loss, or not? If the loser says, "Yes, I accept my loss," then that's sorted. Case done.

So yes, our government appealed a decision it agreed with solely to move the case up to a higher court.

Psychosplodge
06-28-2013, 07:50 AM
But in theory it shouldn't be able to, as it's essentially agreeing with the ruling?

Wolfshade
06-28-2013, 07:55 AM
This does kninda highlight one thing that does annoy me, that is where courts make laws in esscence rather than the elected law makers.

Nabterayl
06-28-2013, 08:11 AM
But in theory it shouldn't be able to, as it's essentially agreeing with the ruling?
Bingo.


This does kninda highlight one thing that does annoy me, that is where courts make laws in esscence rather than the elected law makers.
Do you feel the same way about your own court system? We got common law from you :p Not that you aren't allowed to feel like civil law is the better system, of course.

Wolfshade
06-28-2013, 08:15 AM
Bingo.


Do you feel the same way about your own court system? We got common law from you :p Not that you aren't allowed to feel like civil law is the better system, of course.

Yes, certainly, I wasn't entirely sure that it would be the same in your system with the way state and fedral law seem to interact. My comment was purely about the system over here, but if it is replicated over there then I feel teh same.

Psychosplodge
06-28-2013, 08:17 AM
I hate how our judges/lawyers seem to twist the law to be nothing like what was written "the right to a private life" of the human rights act springs to mind.

Nabterayl
06-28-2013, 08:30 AM
I think that Section 3 is bad policy, and I think I think it's unconstitutional. Certainly I think Section 2 of DOMA is unconstitutional. But this case still really bothers me because of the way it played out.

What should have happened when the Obama administration determined that Section 3 was unconstitutional is for the president to simply order the executive branch to stop enforcing it. Windsor would have gotten her tax refund (a substantial sum - several hundred thousand dollars, plus interest) and same-sex spouses across the country would have gotten their federal marriage rights without years of litigation.

At this point, Congress would have two choices: it could either accept the administration's action, or it could fight it. Press conferences would be held excoriating each side, ridiculous and inaccurate TV ads would be purchased, letters to congresspeople would be written, and Congress would be wracked with internal wrangling over how and whether to force the president to enforce the law. It would be messy and loud, and it would be a democratic debate. This is the system that the Framers envisioned, and that the Federalist Papers talk about. Each branch of government is responsible for interpreting the constitution and upholding it as best it knows how.

Now, I don't hold with this notion that the judiciary is only there to "interpret the constitution." I think that's a child's view, and I find it frankly rather alarming that so many American adults hold it. What Article III actually says (that's the article of the constitution that establishes the federal judiciary, you tyrannical foreign oppressors ;)) is that the judiciary is there to decide disputes. This case is (well, was) actually trying to strong-arm the judiciary into merely "interpreting the constitution" because the executive branch wanted to sidestep the risk of a big messy public throwdown with the legislature.

Earl Harbinger
06-28-2013, 01:01 PM
I'm going to diagree on your federalism point. The US constitution gives the federal govt enumerated powers which limits federal jurisdiction. Chief Justice Marshall covered the enumerated powers in McCulloch v Maryland:


"This government is acknowledged by all, to be one of enumerated powers. The principle, that it can exercise only the powers granted to it, would seem too apparent, to have required to be enforced by all those arguments, which its enlightened friends, while it was depending before the people, found it necessary to urge; that principle is now universally admitted."

The federal govt can only pass laws regarding matters that fall under its jurisdiction set forth by the enumerated powers in Article I. The states and local govts hold jurisdiction over all the other areas. Federal law can only trump state laws in areas where they overlap and the legal justification to assert that marriage licensure is an enumerated federal power is tenuous at best. There really isn't any constitutional support for Congress' authority to pass DOMA in the first place.

States have the right to lawfully regulate the marriage licenses they issue. The state of NY made homosexual and heterosexual marriage lawful and equal. There is no enumerated power that gives the federal govt the right to regulate the intrastate licensure of marriages. Therefore the federal govt did not have the authority to over rule marriage equality in NY state and force upon NY state the marriage inequality in DOMA.

The equal protection clause is only applicable because NY state made homosexual and heterosexual marriage equal and once the state exercised its constitutional right guaranteed it by the 10th Amendment the federal govt can't intrude and trump state law with federal law because there is no federal jurisdiction. Once NY state made hetero- and homosexual marriage equal those marriages were fully protected by the equal protection clause of the constitution but that equality comes from the state level not the federal level.

In my humble opinion it would have been best for SCOTUS to declare DOMA unconstitutional overreach by the federal govt and through it out entirely. States have the right to regulate marriage and the privileges and immunities clauses of Article 4 Section 2 and Amendment 14 Section 1 proscrible the federal govt from making unequal what the states have made equal.

I think it could be successfully argued that the right to marry is protected by Amendment 9 of the Bill of Rights. However, even as a protected right it could still be regulated by the state. I don't think the current or any future SCOTUS court would declare that states didn't have the power to regulate intrastate marriage licensure so states would retain the right to determine if certain people shouldn't be issued a marriage license. If states have the authority to do that then the question becomes how can states determine who can't get a marriage license? If the answer to that question is that states can regulate marriage in accordance to the will of the citizens of that state as expressed either through the actions of their duly elected state govt or through direct popular referendum then it would difficult to find legal support for the idea that the federal govt can mandate to all 50 states which people those states must lawfully allow to marry.

Nabterayl
06-28-2013, 01:08 PM
I ... don't think I understand which federalism point you're disagreeing with. Reading your post, you haven't said anything I disagree with, except that I don't think SCOTUS should have declared DOMA unconstitutional because (i) DOMA wasn't at issue in Windsor, only Section 3 of that act, and (ii) the appeal was improper in the first place so the case should never have reached SCOTUS.

I do think that DOMA is unconstitutional, but that's not the same thing as thinking that SCOTUS should have said so in this case.

EDIT: Okay, I do disagree with your proposition that the federal government cannot make laws respecting marriage at all. I think it is entirely allowable, for instance, for the federal tax code to make reference to marriage. I certainly think that Section 3 was an inadvisable overreach of that power, and I would strike it down for the reasons that Windsor herself advocated, but not on the grounds that the federal government is not allowed to decide, in general, what "marriage" means for purposes of federal law or on the grounds that the federal government is not allowed to refer to marriage in federal law.

Earl Harbinger
06-28-2013, 02:07 PM
I ... don't think I understand which federalism point you're disagreeing with. Reading your post, you haven't said anything I disagree with, except that I don't think SCOTUS should have declared DOMA unconstitutional because (i) DOMA wasn't at issue in Windsor, only Section 3 of that act, and (ii) the appeal was improper in the first place so the case should never have reached SCOTUS.

I do think that DOMA is unconstitutional, but that's not the same thing as thinking that SCOTUS should have said so in this case.

EDIT: Okay, I do disagree with your proposition that the federal government cannot make laws respecting marriage at all. I think it is entirely allowable, for instance, for the federal tax code to make reference to marriage. I certainly think that Section 3 was an inadvisable overreach of that power, and I would strike it down for the reasons that Windsor herself advocated, but not on the grounds that the federal government is not allowed to decide, in general, what "marriage" means for purposes of federal law or on the grounds that the federal government is not allowed to refer to marriage in federal law.

Rereading your post again I think the problem was on my end conflating what was in quotes and what were your statements. In hindsight I should have written that I object to the majority opinion's dismissal of the pertinent federalism aspects of the case. Sorry about that.

We agree that Section 3 of DOMA is unconstitutional, I think the case could be made that throwing out Section 3 guts DOMA enough that it could justify scrapping the rest of the act but you're probably right that that is based more on wishful thinking that proper jurisprudence.

I think the federal govt can make the case that they can make laws regarding marriage benefits and taxes but I am pretty strongly entrenched in the opinion that the federal govt doesn't have jurisdiction to make laws regarding whom can marry. The federal govt has the power to set tax policy regarding married couples but they don't have standing to say which marriages are legal marriages. There's no federal marriage license or federal regulatory agency for marriages. Marriage licensure has always been handled by the states. The federal govt can set tax rates for spousal inheritences but I don't see where it has the grounds to refuse to recognize a marriage deemed lawful by a state or require a state to make certain marriages lawful. The federal govt can require that people must have a valid drivers license to operate a vehicle on federal roads but the federal govt can't dictate to states how their respective DMVs must regulate the issuance of drivers licenses.

Another thought, you bring up a good point and it really doesn't seem to get any media coverage but the lower courts decided in Windsor's favor and the federal govt issued statements that it agreed with the ruling so how did it continue to have standing to be appealed? If both sides agree that the ruling was correct how can either one have standing to appeal the ruling?

On a tangent, inheritence shouldn't count as income. The estate that is inherited was already taxed at the time the money was earned/the property was bought/etc. so an estate tax is double taxation. That's like requiring people to pay sales tax on the birthday presents they receive. The tax was already paid by the person who bought the gift, giving it to somebody else shouldn't require the new owner to pay tax on it again.

Earl Harbinger
06-28-2013, 02:26 PM
On an ancillary note, I think Scalia makes an important point. The amorphous moral argument in the Kennedy's majority opinion is a bit of a trainwreck. The proper outcome was reached, DOMA did have legal standing to discriminate against Windsor's legal marriage. There was ample legal precedent to support such a ruling but the lengths to which Kennedy went to not ascribe the decision to that legal precedence doesn't accomplish the goal of hearing the case before SCOTUS in the first place.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/domesticpolicy/scalia-high-handed-kennedy-has-declared-us-enemies-of-the-human-race-20130626




In a ripping dissent, Scalia says that Justice Anthony Kennedy and his colleagues in the majority have resorted to calling opponents of gay marriage "enemies of the human race."

But to defend traditional marriage is not to condemn, demean, or humiliate those who would prefer other arrangements, any more than to defend the Constitution of the United States is to con- demn, demean, or humiliate other constitutions. To hurl such accusations so casually demeans this institution. In the majority's judgment, any resistance to its holding is beyond the pale of reasoned disagreement. To question its high-handed invalidation of a presumptively valid statute is to act (the majority is sure) with the purpose to "dis- parage," "injure," "degrade," "demean," and "humiliate" our fellow human beings, our fellow citizens, who are homo- sexual. All that, simply for supporting an Act that did no more than codify an aspect of marriage that had been unquestioned in our society for most of its existence— indeed, had been unquestioned in virtually all societies for virtually all of human history. It is one thing for a society to elect change; it is another for a court of law to impose change by adjudging those who oppose it hostes humani generis, enemies of the human race.

Scalia says that the court's holding – while limited to the Defense of Marriage Act – is a sure sign that the majority is willing to declare gay marriage a constitutional right.

It takes real cheek for today's majority to assure us, as it is going out the door, that a constitutional requirement to give formal recognition to same-sex marriage is not at issue here—when what has preceded that assurance is a lecture on how superior the majority's moral judgment in favor of same-sex marriage is to the Congress's hateful moral judgment against it. I promise you this: The only thing that will "confine" the Court's holding is its sense of what it can get away with.

And, he says, the holding will short circuit the debate over gay marriage that should have been carried out in the states.

In the majority's telling, this story is black-and-white: Hate your neighbor or come along with us. The truth is more complicated. It is hard to admit that one's political opponents are not monsters, especially in a struggle like this one, and the challenge in the end proves more than today's Court can handle. Too bad. A reminder that disagreement over something so fundamental as marriage can still be politically legitimate would have been a fit task for what in earlier times was called the judicial temperament. We might have covered ourselves with honor today, by promising all sides of this debate that it was theirs to settle and that we would respect their resolution. We might have let the People decide.



But that the majority will not do. Some will rejoice in today's decision, and some will despair at it; that is the nature of a controversy that matters so much to so many. But the Court has cheated both sides, robbing the winners of an honest victory, and the losers of the peace that comes from a fair defeat. We owed both of them better. I dissent.

Nabterayl
06-28-2013, 05:48 PM
I am pretty strongly entrenched in the opinion that the federal govt doesn't have jurisdiction to make laws regarding whom can marry. The federal govt has the power to set tax policy regarding married couples but they don't have standing to say which marriages are legal marriages.
On that point, I agree with you. Nor do I think states can refuse to recognize marriages performed in other states, under Article IV, Section 1 ("Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state," Commonwealthies). I don't think it's managed to get very far in the court systems yet, but I simply don't see how Section 2 of DOMA can possibly square with that provision. Section 2 says:


No State, territory, or possession of the United States, or Indian tribe, shall be required to give effect to any public act, record, or judicial proceeding of any other State, territory, possession, or tribe respecting a relationship between persons of the same sex that is treated as a marriage under the laws of such other State, territory, possession, or tribe, or a right or claim arising from such relationship.

I get the original intent - the Full Faith and Credit clause seems to require that states recognize same-sex marriages performed elsewhere in the country, even if 100.00% of the population of that state is opposed to that. It seems to strike at the notion of state sovereignty. Which, you know, it totally does.

I understand that Section 2 sought to give each state the time to make up its own mind about same-sex marriage. Maybe that's even good policy. But being good policy doesn't mean it's constitutional. Sometimes the constitution demands good policy, sometimes it demands bad policy.


Another thought, you bring up a good point and it really doesn't seem to get any media coverage but the lower courts decided in Windsor's favor and the federal govt issued statements that it agreed with the ruling so how did it continue to have standing to be appealed? If both sides agree that the ruling was correct how can either one have standing to appeal the ruling?
Well ... personally, I think Scalia has it right when he says that they don't:


Yet the plaintiff and the Government agree entirely on what should happen in this lawsuit. They agree that the court below got it right; and they agreed in the court below that the court below that one got it right as well. What, then, are we doing here?

To give the majority its due, they spend virtually half of their opinion discussing this very question. To get into the technical weeds a bit, Article III has the following to say:


The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;--to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public ministers and Consuls;--to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction;--to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;--to Controversies between two or more States;--between a State and Citizens of another State;--between Citizens of different States;--between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects. (emphasis added)

In other words, for the federal judiciary to be able to decide something, it must be either a "case" or "controversy." But what does that mean? The historical view of the Supreme Court has been that a case or controversy must have two things: (i) that litigant A have already suffered a real injury (it's not enough if A is probably going to suffer an injury, or even if there is a 100% certainty that A will suffer an injury in the future), for which A seeks redress, and (ii) that litigant B disagree that A has either (A) suffered an injury and/or (B) deserves redress for it.

The majority in Windsor argues that Article III only demands the real injury part, and the disagreement - the existence of another party with a direct stake in arguing that the "injured" party has not been injured at all, or at any rate is entitled to no redress - is merely a good idea. In this case, the majority argues, there is a real injury at stake (several hundred thousand dollars which either Windsor or the Treasury must lose), and as to the presence of an adversary ... well, this is a super unusual, super important case, so we're going to waive that requirement.

Personally, I think that's bullsh*t. Chief Justice Roberts and Justices Scalia, Thomas, and Alito did too, and said as much in their dissents. Regardless of one's stance on Section 3, it simply is not a controversy if both sides agree 100% on who is in the right.

Nabterayl
06-28-2013, 08:02 PM
I am pretty strongly entrenched in the opinion that the federal govt doesn't have jurisdiction to make laws regarding whom can marry. The federal govt has the power to set tax policy regarding married couples but they don't have standing to say which marriages are legal marriages.

On that point, I agree with you.
Ah, realized I misspoke here. I agree with you that I don't think the government can decide that same-sex couples are not "married" for purposes of federal law, but I reach that conclusion on equal protection grounds. In general, I think the federal code is allowed to decide who is married for purposes of federal law.

The enumeration of powers argument doesn't get me there. If Congress has the power to tax, for instance, it follows from the necessary and proper clause that Congress can decide who to tax, and how much. This being the case, Congress can decide to tax or not tax married persons, or to tax them more or less than unmarried persons, and so forth. But deciding to tax "married" persons requires the federal code to decide who counts as "married" and who does not; it's a logical necessity. Even if the federal definition of a married person is, "A person who is married under state law," the federal code has still decided upon a definition of marriage. I don't see any constitutional reason why Congress is compelled to conform its definition of marriage to that of the states.

Wildeybeast
06-29-2013, 05:14 AM
And here was me hoping the US government was suing the House of Windsor for burning down the White House or something. Colour me disappointed, though you have done a great job explaining this Nab. I think I almost understood it.

Nabterayl
06-29-2013, 08:27 AM
I dunno, can we sue the Windsors for deeds done under the Hanovers? Maybe we should ... :eek:

Wildeybeast
06-30-2013, 06:52 AM
I don't know. Can you sue the inheritors of an estate for the actions of the departed? If so, in theory you could sue the Windsors as direct descendants.

Wolfshade
06-30-2013, 04:31 PM
Statue of limitations might come into play.
Also by Windsor you mean Saxe-Coburg ;)

Wildeybeast
07-01-2013, 11:19 AM
I most certainly do not. Whilst the European monarchies are all that inbred it's hard to tell who's what nationality on a genetic basis, the British royal family are British and as such have a British name, none of this foreign nonsense.

Psychosplodge
07-02-2013, 04:28 AM
Statue of limitations might come into play.
Also by Windsor you mean Saxe-Coburg ;)

It can't be helped that small germanic states were a handy location to source protestant princesses.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/85fd54722f514d7e230f23def1732656/tumblr_mp79y0dnCO1rqwjemo1_500.jpg

Wolfshade
07-02-2013, 04:59 AM
They changed their name in the run up to WW1 and the anti-Germanic sentiment, let us not forget Victoria and Wilhelm were cousins.

Psychosplodge
07-02-2013, 05:02 AM
I thought he was her favourite nephew?