Gets hot and twin-link

[droozy]

Hi everybody,

So my question is about the gets hot rule when you're shooting with a twin-link plasma gun. If you get hot on the first roll does that count as the wound or can you re-roll since it's twin-linked? Also is the wound resolved at the weapons AP value? It doesn't say in the rulebook.

Thanks in advance

[DWest]

Check BRB pg 37, there is a section on the Gets Hot! rule, which covers the wound inflicted and how to handle re-rolls vs. Gets Hot!

More generally, there's a *lot* of valuable material packed in the Special Rules section, pg. 32-43.

[droozy]

Thanks Mr man, I read the rule. In twin link it says the first roll is discarded, I was wondering if that overrode the gets hot special rule. Also in the rule it says armor saves and invulnerable saves may be taken but doesn't specify if the wound caused by rolling the one is resolved at the weapons AP. My assumption is that the twin link rule overrides the gets hot for the first roll and that the wound is at AP-. A friend and I had a disagreement over the interpretation of the rules and I was looking for clarification. Trolls will be trolls I suppose

[Tynskel]

you replace the first result with the second, as though the first never happened. That's the case with all re-rolls in the game.

[droozy]

Thank you for the input trynksel, do you know if I am correct about wounds caused by gets hot being resolved at AP-? Bless you for giving me a real answer, I hate it when people just tell you to look it up, I looked it up, still had questions. Responses like that of dwest are discouraging to new players such as myself.

[Magpie]

It's always a good idea to make it plain that you have read the rule when you ask your question. Forums have to be a little bit careful about how much of the rulebook they quote.

The wound from a "Gets Hot" is simply a wound it's not actually a shot from the gun so it's not AP2

[droozy]

I'll try and be more careful. I thought I made it clear when I said that it didn't say in the rulebook but I will be more explicit in the future. I haven't been on this forum long, I assumed that if someone poses a question in the rules forum that they naturally already tried to get the answer themselves but didn't understand the wording or are afraid they may be missing something. Maybe I assume too much. Whatever the case may be, 'look it up yourself' is never a helpful answer. Now an answer with a page number, that's gold. thank you for the input magpie, it is much appreciated.

[DWest]

The reason I referred you to the page in the BRB was because it very explicitly stated the answers to your question, so I wasn't sure if you had missed the rule entirely, or been looking in a different section for it. My apologies.

[daboarder]

Or didn't even own a rulebook

[droozy]

Apology accepted, it was an issue I was having with interpretation of overlapping rules with another player. For the record my interpretation was correct, I was more double checking myself since my buddy had a different opinion

[Anakzar]

The answer to your question is there on page 37. under the Gets Hot! special rule, 2nd bold type title Gets hot and re-rolls.

On a side note I have noticed a lot of people miss these type of rules clarifications built into the rules... Likely do to reading down to what they see as the end because there is a paragraph break and the titles are bold print but not as heavy a bold print as the rules themselves. To some it looks like that's the start of another rule...

[Bored Lyron]

Now the actually interesting question is, what happens when you have a twin-linked "gets hot" weapon and you miss the shot without rolling a one. Now you re-roll. What happens if you now roll a one? Most people seem to assume that the re-roll stands and the firing model takes a wound. However what the rules actually say is: "Wound is only suffered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1." So if your first roll is a 2 when you needed 3+ to hit and your re-roll is a 1 you don't need to worry about gets hot. Or am I missing something?

[Magpie]

Wrong on second look

[Ben_S]

I think that's an odd way to read the 'also'. The re-roll is, of course, a re-roll. It would have been clearer to have said "if the re-roll is a 1", which I assume is what is meant.

[daboarder]

Yup by the rules you only get hot on a 1 followed by a 1.

My guess this was decided to be this way so that if you miss but don't overheat you don't have to decide if the re-roll is worth the risk of rolling a 1 instead.

[Magpie]

The rule is trying to say that if you roll a 1 on a the first roll of a twin linked weapon, it doesn't count.
It is the result of the re-roll that counts.
I think that they are trying to clarify that if you roll a 1 and get another 1 then you don't get hot twice.

So if you roll 3 twin linked To Hits and get a 5, a 2 and a 1 then:

5 is a hit,
2 Re-rolled, gets hot if it is a 1 otherwise ok
1 Re-rolled, gets hot if it is a 1 otherwise ok

[daboarder]

Also is a pretty important word, you cannot just ignore it

If I roll a 2, then re-roll a 1 I cannot have possibly "also" rolled a 1 as such the shot cannot fulfill the requirements for gets hot.

[Magpie]

I don't think that is the intent of the rule.

[daboarder]

Here we go again,


If a model has the ability to re-roll its
rolls To Hit (including because of BS
6+, or Twin-linked), a wound is only
suffered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1, it
may also re-roll Gets Hot results of I for
weapons that do not roll To Hit.

Pretty black and white.

[Magpie]

Or it could be meaning that if you rolled a 1 first time around it doesn't count as it is the re-roll that counts, clarifying the earlier direction that EVERY roll of a 1 causes a wound actually excludes the first 1 that was rolled.

[daboarder]

you'd be right, except for that little word ALSO.

That means that in order for ANY re-rolling gets hot weapon to generate a wound on the user BOTH rolls must be a 1.

A 2, followed by a 1 is not ALSO a 1.

again, I believe it is this way so that you do not have to decide if you want to use your re-roll and risk an overheat on a normal miss.

[SeattleDV8]

No, page 5
The second roll counts even if it means a worse result than the first.

[Asuryan]

well a roll of a 2 on a normal weapon is bad, and a re-rolled of a 1 is worse. I have to agree with Daboarder as

If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit (including because of BS 6+, or Twin-linked), a wound is only suffered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1

[daboarder]

No, page 5

YES,

That same page tells you advanced rules overide simple ones.

ALSO is clear mate, how do you not get it


you get hot if the second roll is a 1

you get hot if the second roll is also a 1

Those two sentences are telling you two different things and only one of them is in the rulebook.

[SeattleDV8]

Oh, I get what you are saying, but your interpretation of what that also means is a case of 'silly RAW'

GW does not write rules that well, it's not clear that thats what they meant.
No one plays it your way.

I don't see the wording as strong enough to change how this rule is played.

The first roll is discarded, only the second roll counts.

[daboarder]

which is fair enough

However I believe it was added for a purpose, again, it makes perfect sense if you think, "gee what happens if I roll a 2 to hit and miss do I take the risk the overheat?" GW has written it this way so that you do not have to make that choice.

[SeattleDV8]

The problem I have with that idea is this section is just dealing with Gets Hot, rolling a one.
It is showing that the first 'one' can be ignored as any other re-roll does, the Gets Hot rule does not negate the re-roll.
It really does not deal with a normal miss, thats covered on page 5.

Granted it is worded poorly.

[Magpie]

which is fair enough

However I believe it was added for a purpose, again, it makes perfect sense if you think, "gee what happens if I roll a 2 to hit and miss do I take the risk the overheat?" GW has written it this way so that you do not have to make that choice.

It can't possibly be that because re-rolling for twin linked isn't a choice.

[Tynskel]

Yeah, Twin-Linked is not a choice. You have to re-roll.

[Asuryan]

which is fair enough

However I believe it was added for a purpose, again, it makes perfect sense if you think, "gee what happens if I roll a 2 to hit and miss do I take the risk the overheat?" GW has written it this way so that you do not have to make that choice.


It can't possibly be that because re-rolling for twin linked isn't a choice.

I think that proves daborder's point, especially when doing snapshots, only hitting on 6's then having to re-roll and possibly kill off your own guys because the 2-5's that didn't hit could be 1's. with how the rule is written you need a 1 and then a re-rolled 1 to get hot.

[Asuryan]

Oh, I get what you are saying, but your interpretation of what that also means is a case of 'silly RAW'

GW does not write rules that well, it's not clear that thats what they meant.
No one plays it your way.

I don't see the wording as strong enough to change how this rule is played.

The first roll is discarded, only the second roll counts.

Yesterday i had to point out to an opponent that Blast weapons don't need to be centered on the model as long as the center hole is completely on the model, Lot's of people still do it the old way but the rule changed, but yeah i guess you could ignore that if everyone doesn't want to follow the rules

[Tynskel]

everywhere I have been (and I have played all over the US), the roll of a 1 on the second die means better get ready to roll an armour save.

[JMichael]

I think that proves daborder's point, especially when doing snapshots, only hitting on 6's then having to re-roll and possibly kill off your own guys because the 2-5's that didn't hit could be 1's. with how the rule is written you need a 1 and then a re-rolled 1 to get hot.

Well you don't HAVE to shoot 'Get's Hot' weapons! The risk, as always is the overheat but perhaps the possibility of that hit is worth it!

[Magpie]

It really doesn't work for me that a weapon that fires less shots has a 1:6 chance of blowing up but one that fires more has only a 1:36.

The probability of rolling at least one 1 on two dice of 30% makes much more sense. More shots more likelihood of getting hot.

[JMichael]

Personally I never liked the exploding Plasma weapon rule. Would be much better if Gets Hot simply meant the weapon couldn't shoot for a full turn while it cools down.

[SeattleDV8]

Yesterday i had to point out to an opponent that Blast weapons don't need to be centered on the model as long as the center hole is completely on the model, Lot's of people still do it the old way but the rule changed, but yeah i guess you could ignore that if everyone doesn't want to follow the rules

Wow, that rule changed when 5th ed. came out and was very clear with a diagram.

[Asuryan]

Wow, that rule changed when 5th ed. came out and was very clear with a diagram.

and yet i still had to point it out, all i was saying is just because people don't realize a rule has changed and want to play the old way isn't a good enough reason to ignore what's in the book, now with this issue it is not as black and white but IMO the book is clear how it works.


It really doesn't work for me that a weapon that fires less shots has a 1:6 chance of blowing up but one that fires more has only a 1:36.

The probability of rolling at least one 1 on two dice of 30% makes much more sense. More shots more likelihood of getting hot.

Twin-linked guns don't fire more, they give you a better chance of hitting. It even says this in the description for Twin-linked.

[daboarder]

This isn't even about twin-linked,

Its about all re-rolls regardless of source.

[Magpie]

Twin-linked guns don't fire more, they give you a better chance of hitting. It even says this in the description for Twin-linked.

What the rule says is they don't get more shots games wise but the background principle is a weapon that fires a fusillade, "a series of shots fired or missiles thrown all at the same time or in quick succession"
So the idea is two barrels are firing the same number of shots as a single, ergo more shots are being fired with more chance of getting hot.


This isn't even about twin-linked,

Its about all re-rolls regardless of source.
Ah I see I don't have those special goggles that make "gets hot and twin linked" read "gets hot and re-rolls regardless of source".

[Asuryan]

@Magpie, I typically try and keep personal feelings out of posts because its the Internet and when having discussions on these forums having emotions tend to run hot and then lead to a lot of name calling ect., and I also don't like you interpretation of a lot of rules this one and Black mace and fnp for examples, but i have to make this joke.

It's a good thing that apocalypse is getting released soon, because Magpie made a good point. IT IS A SIGN!

i concede on the fusillade and "firing more shots" but stand on my opinion of re-rolled 1 only get hot if the first roll was also a 1

[Magpie]

@Magpie, I typically try and keep personal feelings out of posts

Probably best to stick with that then I'd reckon.

[droozy]

...Okay so you re-roll results from the first roll(if a miss) regardless and depending on your interpretation of the word also, you can either get hot with a roll of a one or get hot with a roll of two consecutive ones... Before I asked this question I went to some other forums to see what was said and it was pretty much the same, a group of people who agreed on the basics but disagreed on the details. And of course everyone believes they are right and that the explanation is simple. Obviously it's not that simple if 5 pages later we still can't agree.

[Tynskel]

...Okay so you re-roll results from the first roll(if a miss) regardless and depending on your interpretation of the word also, you can either get hot with a roll of a one or get hot with a roll of two consecutive ones... Before I asked this question I went to some other forums to see what was said and it was pretty much the same, a group of people who agreed on the basics but disagreed on the details. And of course everyone believes they are right and that the explanation is simple. Obviously it's not that simple if 5 pages later we still can't agree.

hahahah.
No. Because, this is the internets, and people do not admit they are wrong.