750 Point escalation league - CSM

[Jaerith]

Hello,

I'm a complete 40k beginner, starting out in an escalation league. The league starts with a 750 point core that is added to over the league, and I'd like some advice on a starting foundation. My first list, based on models that just `look like fun', is:

HQ:
2x Chaos Lord, Mark of Khorne, Juggernaut, Power Weapon
Fast Attack:
2x 3 bikers, meltabomb.
Heavy Support:
obliterator
maulerfied
Core:
10 cultists
5 marines, rhino

My second list, based on stealing some units that look popular, is:
Fast Attack:
Heldrake with Baleflamer
HQ:
Demon Prince, Mark of Nurgle, black mace, wings, armour
Core:
2x 5 marines, rhino, havoc launcher
Heavy Support:
obliterator

Are either of these reasonable starting points? Any suggested minor changes? At the moment, I own whatever comes from Dark Vengeance plus two battalion boxes, and a few miscellaneous miniatures. I really like the big monsters in chaos, if that wasn't obvious from the lists, and would love to find a place for spawn as well.

Thanks!

[Themaninthegreenhat]

Hi!

and welcome to the magical world of 40K!

i'm going to assume that you've been playing fantasy before, and that may be the reason as to why you've got a small troops choice. (This is pure prejudice based on me going from Fantasy to 40K i considered troops/core the unfortunate fee for fielding an army) .

Now i play GK and DA, and I've only played against Chaos...never actually, I'm pretty new to the game as well. So take these hallowed words with some salt.

One thing sticks out, why so few troops? the cultists are pretty squishy, and even if they exists only to fill points/hug objective in your own zone, they are still pretty vulnerable to a shooty surprise, or special charge. And the marines, if you want that few, why not take a razorback and six marines? Basically it seems like you're list is slightly all over the place, i usually try Niching my army, with the DA i have i'm going with "get in there and stab 'em" and the rest of the list caters to that. But why two duel mastering badass HQs? And where are you going to stick them? Against Tau i can see things go south awfully quick, or an IG armored list.

On the other hand, you do want to have at least some basic anti tank, and the oblits cover that niche, i like the second list (forsooth i gander at yonder heldrake with envy) better.

I hope this helps.

[Jaerith]

Hi!

and welcome to the magical world of 40K!

i'm going to assume that you've been playing fantasy before, and that may be the reason as to why you've got a small troops choice. (This is pure prejudice based on me going from Fantasy to 40K i considered troops/core the unfortunate fee for fielding an army) .

Now i play GK and DA, and I've only played against Chaos...never actually, I'm pretty new to the game as well. So take these hallowed words with some salt.

One thing sticks out, why so few troops? the cultists are pretty squishy, and even if they exists only to fill points/hug objective in your own zone, they are still pretty vulnerable to a shooty surprise, or special charge. And the marines, if you want that few, why not take a razorback and six marines? Basically it seems like you're list is slightly all over the place, i usually try Niching my army, with the DA i have i'm going with "get in there and stab 'em" and the rest of the list caters to that. But why two duel mastering badass HQs? And where are you going to stick them? Against Tau i can see things go south awfully quick, or an IG armored list.

On the other hand, you do want to have at least some basic anti tank, and the oblits cover that niche, i like the second list (forsooth i gander at yonder heldrake with envy) better.

I hope this helps.

Thanks for the suggestions. Here is an attempt at a slightly more focused and troop-heavy list:

HQ:
Kharn
Troops:
28 cultists
14 marines, meltabomb, 2 meltaguns
Fast Attack:
Heldrake
Heavy Support:
nurgle obliterator

Kharne runs with the cultists, the marines can take care of themselves? I'm considering changing the weapons on the marines, maybe dropping 1-2 to get a special close combat weapon for them and/or flamers for the cultists. The list feels a little more focused, with lots of guys running at the enemy, if a little less zippy.

[Dave Mcturk]

as a long time opponent of CSM armies... have to say I hate playing against oblitz... especially at small point games !
at very low points [under 1000] ... not sure rhinos are really an advantage unless you are not giving first kill points !

[Themaninthegreenhat]

Thanks for the suggestions. Here is an attempt at a slightly more focused and troop-heavy list:

HQ:
Kharn
Troops:
28 cultists
14 marines, meltabomb, 2 meltaguns
Fast Attack:
Heldrake
Heavy Support:
nurgle obliterator

Kharne runs with the cultists, the marines can take care of themselves? I'm considering changing the weapons on the marines, maybe dropping 1-2 to get a special close combat weapon for them and/or flamers for the cultists. The list feels a little more focused, with lots of guys running at the enemy, if a little less zippy.

I agree this list seems a lot more focused, ideally you'd have some sort of delivery/insertion system to get yourself into the enemys midst and wreak havoc (too much black library for me) as that is really where the MEQ shines.

DAve Mcturk makes a pretty good suggestion about the obliterators, i'd hate to go up against them as well. And with the Nurgle benefit of a boosted Toughness you're safeguarded against insta-death.

looks decent to me, but as i said, i'm an amateur. Getting a Vet's glance would be best, but learning through playing is the master.

[Chadddada]

I was actually coming to post the same question here as well: I am building a 750 point CSM army for an escalation league. Not trying to hijack this thread, just get the same answers. Just let me know if you want me to bugger off to my own thread, Jaerith.

I guess I will add my list here and get everyone's opinion on it as well.

HQ - I am going back and fourth between a low point lord, a DP w/ wings+power armor+black mace, or Typhus

Troops - Depending on Typhus going this will be a bit different.

For pure troop choices I have ~ 70 Cultists and 10 CSM. If I take Typhus I have 7 Plague marines that I could also take.

Fast attack - 1 x Heldrake

So my Typhus list would be (748):

HQ - Typhus
Troop - Zombies (cultist) x 20
Troop - Zombies x 20
Troop - Plague Marines x 7
Fast Attack - Heldrake

Both Jaerith and I are looking at some semi expensive HQs... should we be taking a cheaper lord for these lower points games?

While Typhus is expensive, he really upgrades the staying power of all these cultists. I am hoping that my opponent won't have the time / man power to clean them all off an objective (or for kill points) before Typhus and the heldrake eat them all. I would like to have 3 units of troops, whereas Jae has 2 units. For this low points game, would 2 be adequate? Will typhus and/or the heldrake be able to take care of a tank if an opponent brings it (I am a newbie).

So the bigger question here is, what should a 750 point army look like? Still try to balance it with as many troops as possible? Have some heavy punching units with fewer troops?

[Themaninthegreenhat]

WH0a!

I'm kind of out of my depth here. but i'm kind of going...yarp(!?) on the question of large HQ's. In my limited experience i've found that expensive HQ's in small matches is a terrible gamble, and can work quite fine as long as you think about two things
A)What do i actually want this unit to accomplish
B) how will it work with the rest of my list to provide me with some synergy in this match.

As an example, i once played 1000 pts agains an eldar player, my fourth match overall i think, and i had about twenty modells overall. The match went south pretty quick, what with an exploding random objective killing two GK's a turn, and three terminators dying after deepstriking into a stonewall. But mostly i didn't have a formulated plan as to what each unit did to help the other unit. Sure, the librarian acted pretty well on his own, and the warp rift went off nicely, but my psyfledread alternated between getting units of my objective, and trying to take down a Wraithlord. And in five turns it is difficult to do both. Also, my grand master took a dive pretty early, and that ruined almost everything i was counting on. So am i saying you should meticulously plan everything? No, that sounds less than fun and fun is what we are trying to have here, am i saying you have to hope everyting works out the way you want it too? Nope, i'm saying this.

Get what each unit does best in accordance to what you need it to do, and have a decent planb B in case typhus goes down.

@@Chaddadda:You have a heldrake for QRF to strike stuff down on a need to basis, and plague marines for plunger duty (get stuff out of their hidey holes) and Poisoned flamer attacks, but what is you anti tank option? The troops are good for sticking objectives, and even claiming them, but unsupported they are going to get bolted down pretty quickly me thinks. Could imayhapst persuade the player to look at a blessing of nurgle for them+ (unsure if that is allowed)

[Chadddada]

So my 750 point list:

HQ:
-DP with Black Mace, Power armor, wings

Elites:
-7 Plague marines w/ bolters (no upgrades)
-4 terminators with 2x combi bolters, 1x combi flamer, 1x combi melta

Troops:
-16 bone stock cultists (no upgrades)
-19 bone stock cultists
-10 CSM with MoN

Played my 1st game with this setup and ended up beating an eldar army (1 HQ? with 4-5 bodyguards, 2 units of the guys that can counter charge you, 5x swooping hawks). This was only my 2nd game ever so I am learning still and don't know all the models names / abilities. We ended up playing big guns never die (was a wash there) and lengthwise on the table. I started off with the CSM and cultists on 1 corner, deepstrike the termis, and plague and other cultists on the lower part of the table. Ended up flying in w/ the DP (he started on the board also) and taking out his HQ and making is bodyguards run. Got a few more of a unit and he died. He lost 1 wound quickly due to being shot out of the air....

Ended up getting my cultists on 1 objective and CSM on another. So that was HQ, 1st blood, 2 objectives to his killing off 1 full squad of cultists.

The biggest challenges were 1) Me not knowing about counter charge, so that shot up a few guys there and 2) the cultists didn't get much action. 1 group got to shoot 1x at the swooping hawks when they came back on the board turn 4, they flew off on 2. Other than that they were getting blown up and failing leadership checks - basically running around like chickens with their head's cut off.

[G00dySmiley]

best small scale 750 point chaos marines army i cna think of

nurgle lord on a bike with power weapon 100

plaugesx5 1 flamer 125
rhino 35
plaugesx5 1 flamer 125
rhino 35

3x nurgle bikes 88

helldrake 170

1 oblit 70

748

2 strong troops in transports which can even be jus tused to block line of sight, burle bikers and lord are toughness 6, oblit and helldrake pop in and destroy things

[Chadddada]

Does the nurgle lord make the plagues troops? I know Typhus does, but does just having this lord? Otherwise, you have no way of capping an objective.

EDIT: Oh snap... Battlescribe says this does = troop selection. Very nice

I was going to use a heldrake but my opponent begged mercy. In it's place I took the terminators.

[G00dySmiley]

Does the nurgle lord make the plagues troops? I know Typhus does, but does just having this lord? Otherwise, you have no way of capping an objective.

EDIT: Oh snap... Battlescribe says this does = troop selection. Very nice

I was going to use a heldrake but my opponent begged mercy. In it's place I took the terminators.

yessir, all the lords allow different elites to eb troops, look in the codex under chaos lord and under the sorceror