Super Heavy Reserve Movement?

[SlavesToDarkness]

If a super-heavy tank longer than 6" (like a Baneblade) moves onto the board from reserve, do you just place it with the rear touching the edge? A Baneblade only moves 6" and it's longer than 6" so it can't move enough to get its whole structure onto the board.

Do I:

A) Place it on the board with the rear touching the edge?
B) Place it on the board, then move it 6"?

[Nabterayl]

I think you move its front 6" onto the board, leaving the rest of it hanging off, if necessary.

It violates the principle that a model must be completely on the board, but I think that's fairer to your opponent than giving it a Baneblade's worth of extra movement on the turn it arrives.

[Culven]

There is no rule that a model must move completely onto the table. Placing the model on the table with its rear at teh edge is often permitted as a courtesy to prevent the model falling to the floor. PLacing the model on the table and then moving it is definitely not permitted by the Reserves rules and most would object anyway since it is giving the model additional movement equal to its length.

[AirHorse]

Maybe it forces you to move on sideways? XD Interesting question though, i guess you just have to leave it hanging, unless its a rediculously huge model, in which case Im sure in your game of apocalypse no one will mind you sort of squeezing it on the table so it can actually deploy and take part :)

[DarkLink]

Technically, your move starts from the table edge, as if the front of the models hull/base is just off the table edge.

How wide is a Baneblade? If it is less than 6", then you could theoretically be forced to move on sideways to fit within the 6".

Otherwise, technically, you can't move on, but it's pretty obviously an error on GW's part, so your opponent had better not have a problem with it.

[BuFFo]

People STILL ask this question online, seriously?

Move your model so its entirely on the table.

1) No one is going to tell me to keep half my expensive, painted model hanging off a table edge.

2) No one should tell you to do the same. Ever. And if they do, stop playing that person. Hes a dick.

End of story.

[Nabterayl]

If you're playing on a raised surface that is literally the size of your playing area, I agree with BuFFo - move the model as far as necessary to get it fully onto the playing surface. The small amount of extra movement pales in comparison to the risk of a Baneblade falling on the floor.

If you're playing on a floor, or if your table is larger than the playing area - in short, if you can hang off the borders of the map without hanging over empty air - I say leave part of the model "out of bounds."

[DarkLink]

Yeah, it's frickin' apocalypse. A few inches of movement on one unit isn't going to matter. If your opponent has a problem with it, you probably shouldn't bother playing him.

And there's the practical side of protecting you're expensive models. Following the rules to the letter isn't worth the cost of a baneblade.

[lobster-overlord]

Isn't it considered that any part of the model touching the edge or going over the edge of the battlefield/table is removed from play as it has left the field? Thus you end up with the catch 22 of never being able to field it from reserves since it is over the edge as soon as it hits the table? Can sponsons that are mounted on the rear most spot on the side of the baneblade fire if they are hanging out over "no-models-land" off the board in such a manner, even if they have range and LOS?

John M>chaosgod'sadvocate

[Culven]

Isn't it considered that any part of the model touching the edge or going over the edge of the battlefield/table is removed from play as it has left the field?
Not in general. This only applies to models falling back and moving off the table. There are no rules covering models off the table due to any other circumstances.

[DarkLink]

Normally, the table edge is effectively Impassable Terrain, aka you can't move "on" it. Falling back and similar are pretty much the only way you can move off the board.

[Archon]

The table edge is the end of the world. No one like to be half on world an half offworld. A is the correct and only answer, B is a no go.

[Culven]

A is the correct and only answer,. . .
Why? There is no rule that states the model must be placed completely on the table, nor is there a rule that states models may not be placed so that they are not completely on the table.

The only rule that would seem to apply, and even then it isn't strictly applicable, is the rule that says one is to ignore rules that could prevent the model from moving onto the table. To be strictly applied, there would need to be a rule that states "not fully on the table = not on the table".

So, there isn't a "correct" answer. The best we can give are examples of Game as Played (GaP) and polite allowances.

[Archon]

No reason to go into bureaucracy. A Model half on- and half-offtable is simply not an option (or soon a model with broken parts). You have to be on or off the tabel not both. Your listed rule is a good reason for my statement :) The phrase "we all gamers know, the tableedge is the end of the world" appeard in a newer FAQ but I can´t say at the mom. in wich one.

[BuFFo]

So, there isn't a "correct" answer.

lol.

There is.

You don't hang your model off of the playing area, especially on a table.

The end.

I appreciate you trying to go all '40konline/warseer' with the rules here, but like all rules lawyers, you forget this isn't magic the gathering, where there is a ruling for EVERY situation. Its a relaxing hobby in which you play with toys with your buddies.

To the OP, don't hang your models off a table. I don't know ANYONE, even Culven, who would hang their 500 dollar Forge World model half off a table because some power tripping nerd at the other end of the table says to do so.

[Aenir]

Lets say the bane blade is 9 inches long, put it onto the field, and next movement phase, subtract 3 Inches from its movement, and subtract 3 inches from the shooting?

why is it that big of a deal?

[SlavesToDarkness]

To the OP, don't hang your models off a table. I don't know ANYONE, even Culven, who would hang their 500 dollar Forge World model half off a table because some power tripping nerd at the other end of the table says to do so.

Totally agree.

I am just shocked there isn't a hard and fast rule for this.

The Land Raider, for example, is also longer than 6" (might even be longer than 12").

Lets say the bane blade is 9 inches long, put it onto the field, and next movement phase, subtract 3 Inches from its movement, and subtract 3 inches from the shooting?


Lets say the bane blade is 9 inches long, put it onto the field, and next movement phase, subtract 3 Inches from its movement, and subtract 3 inches from the shooting?

why is it that big of a deal?

Because if I could do that, I would leave all my tanks hanging off the table so no one could ever get at the rear armor.

[DarkLink]

The Land Raider, for example, is also longer than 6" (might even be longer than 12").


7" long, actually.

[Aenir]

Totally agree.

I am just shocked there isn't a hard and fast rule for this.

The Land Raider, for example, is also longer than 6" (might even be longer than 12").

Lets say the bane blade is 9 inches long, put it onto the field, and next movement phase, subtract 3 Inches from its movement, and subtract 3 inches from the shooting?



Because if I could do that, I would leave all my tanks hanging off the table so no one could ever get at the rear armor.

but isnt that the case with most of these ideas?

[BuFFo]

but isnt that the case with most of these ideas?

Actually, the case of most of these ideas work like this...

1) Kid gets into 40k because it looks FUN.

2) Kid gets taught by some nerds that the game is played strictly RAW, and that 'fun' is so 1990's.

3) Kid runs across tons of RAW inconsistencies. The concept of 'rolling a dice' to resolve issues is alien to him, and must only be a sign at how GW doesn't know how to write rules. Head almost explodes as Kid cannot grasp the fluid fun nature of the game, and insist that it work like Magic the Gathering, where EVERY single possibility has a rule covering it.

4) Kid comes online to find rulings because 'GW is crappy when it comes to rules/erratas/faqs'. Kid learns that the LEET, fat, sweaty nerd pros congregate on sites like 'warsewer and 40krapOnline'. Kid starts become one of the anointed posters on rules forums... Kid's nerdy ego grows and believes anyone who entered the game BEFORE 3rd edition or AFTER 4th edition is bellow him in every way possible.

5) Kid never finds a definitive answer... because there IS none!Kid's ego cannot stand not being able ot find an answer, so Kid begins to create scenarios, rules, anything he can to justify himself, even when he is flat out wrong. ePeen can never admit wrongness!

6) Kid tries to play 40k in real life, and he notices that his 'God-like' ruling abilities fall flat when faced with 'real human beings'. Kid never truly understood the basic foundation of the game, The Most Important Rule... Kid realizes that he will never understand the concept of 'fun'.

6) Kid hangs himself.

[entendre_entendre]

it's freakin' apocalypse. the rules are far more relaxed here than in regular 40k. so what if you get ant extra 3'' of "movement"? on an 8' x 4' table (at a minimum)? is there not enough room on that table? wouldn't normally just mean that said baneblade is just 3'' closer to all those MC's, gargantuan creatures, titan close combat weapons, chainfists, etc? if the baneblade's 3'' closer to the enemy, then the enemy is 3'' closer to the baneblade.
i play apocalypse for fun. i don't need some power-gamey freak wrecking what meant to be a fun time for all. if they start complaining about 3'' of movement, i will remind them that this isn't a tournie, so they can leave the rules lawyering at the door. if they persist, then i start calling down orbital destroyer apocalypse barrage templates... >:-)

[SlavesToDarkness]

it's freakin' apocalypse. the rules are far more relaxed here than in regular 40k. so what if you get ant extra 3'' of "movement"?

You are correct, it's totally fine in apocalypse. That is how we play it: just place the Baneblade or Macharius or whatever on the table touching the edge and count it moving 6".

But, as I mentioned before, this scenario can arise with Land Raiders and other vehicles too in normal games.

[Culven]

You don't hang your model off of the playing area, especially on a table.
What if the table is larger than the playing surface? Then the model could safely sit partially on the playing area and partially off. Since there is no rule that states whether this is allowed, neither the "must be fully on the table" nor the "can be partially on the table" group have anything to force the other group to abide by their interpretation/GaP/house rule.


I appreciate you trying to go all '40konline/warseer' with the rules here, but like all rules lawyers, you forget this isn't magic the gathering, where there is a ruling for EVERY situation.
You use "rules laywers" like it is a bad thing. ;) I know that GW hasn't bothered to write a thorough set of rules. What I typically argue is what the rules actually state so that players can understand where the holes are and be educated enough to know which rules will need to be addresed before the game in order to avoid wasting time arguing them whenthey come up in the game.. In this case, there are no clear rules for how a Baneblade enters play from reserves. Thus, if one wishes to use Flank March Superheavy tanks, they need to know to ask the question when the game is being organized so that everyone will know how to play it during the game.


To the OP, don't hang your models off a table. I don't know ANYONE, even Culven, who would hang their 500 dollar Forge World model half off a table because some power tripping nerd at the other end of the table says to do so.
What if the power-tripping nerd is the one trying to set their 500 dollar model on the table? When I play, I try to avoid any unintended advantages, including the additional movement needed to get the tank on the table. Some players don't mind if I put it on the table and not worry about it, but I will at least offer to reduce the range of my weapons by the additional distance for that turn.

[gcsmith]

it's freakin' apocalypse. the rules are far more relaxed here than in regular 40k. so what if you get ant extra 3'' of "movement"? on an 8' x 4' table (at a minimum)? is there not enough room on that table? wouldn't normally just mean that said baneblade is just 3'' closer to all those MC's, gargantuan creatures, titan close combat weapons, chainfists, etc? if the baneblade's 3'' closer to the enemy, then the enemy is 3'' closer to the baneblade.
i play apocalypse for fun. i don't need some power-gamey freak wrecking what meant to be a fun time for all. if they start complaining about 3'' of movement, i will remind them that this isn't a tournie, so they can leave the rules lawyering at the door. if they persist, then i start calling down orbital destroyer apocalypse barrage templates... >:-)

This would be right, IFFFF this reserve wasnt game breaking. What if that 3" wins the game? i know its hypethetical and people will go so wat its only a game. But a game is inteded to have winners and losers and to lose due to not subtracting range? id say move on but deduct additional move from shooting.

[BuFFo]

What if the power-tripping nerd is the one trying to set their 500 dollar model on the table?

Then that is his choice to hang his model off the table! :eek: