How to respond to being called a power gamer?

[Shadoq]

I know, I know the title sounds like something out of kindergarden but I S*** you not.
I was playing a game two weekends ago and we were on the bottom of turn ONE when my opponent started throwing a hissy fit.
I was playing a Tau list with a pair of Riptides, a pair of Hammerheads, 40 FWs, and some Crisis suits and had generally castled on my objective. A little spammy, yes I will fully admit that but where I took offense was when my opponent said the only reason I was winning was because I was a power gamer and WAACer.

I'm sorry but I don't think so. I played Tau all 5th Ed when they were just middling to ok with a low power codex. Now that my favorite space commies have new toys that I like a lot, I'm automatically a WAACer? I'm all for both people enjoying a game but I'm not going to build an army with inherent weaknesses built into it just to allow my opponent to win. That is a little too much for me.

He promptly rage quit after his 10 man terminator squad (Storm bolter, PF, no storm shields), with Belial, and a Librarian deep struck behind my lines and all got killed when both Riptides EWOed them and then got unloaded on during my turn with Fire Knife suits and FWs. The whole time he was throwing(literally throwing) his models into his box he was making disparaging comments under his breath about people who were WAACers and had more disposable income. I didn't say a word and let him leave. I even left my models in place in case he came back in and wanted to try again. The store owner told me he also whined to him on the way out about how terrible I was. I stayed and watched a couple new gamers play a quick 40K game and helped them out with some rules questions and helped a new Marine player choose some new models.



What would you do? What can you say when someone throws a fit like that? Or is it just better to let them go throw their temper tantrum elsewhere?

[jgebi]

well you played the tau when they were under powered so you have all right to play tau and I play necron so i get this and i still don't get the fuss over necrons. also was it a comp or just for fun?

[DarkLink]

First off, did you let him know that you could Intercept? It's bad form, even in hardcore tournaments, to not at least say, 'By the way, I've got some Interceptor stuff' when they decide to Deepstrike.

Secondly, presuming that you're not actually a jerk (which we can't really know here, and I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt), find someone to play who isn't a whiny little *****.

I play in an area where there are a fair number of people like this. Our local tournament scene, which is probably the largest on the West Coast, is utterly obsessed with comp. The community consists of people who blame their losses on overpowered units and WAAC players, and it's all a load of crap. One of my buddies is a very good player who uses Thousand Sons. He takes terrible units. He has a Heldrake, because he's big on painting, but he's only played it maybe once and he used the autocannon and not the flamer. But he's a very good player, and wins a lot, so people here are utterly convinced that Thousand Suns are OP.

Compare this to the gaming environment in the Bay Area, where I go and game with Reecius and the Frontline Gaming crew on occasion. They are a blast to hang out with. Instead of complaining and whining like immature children, they have fun playing the game, trying out new stuff, painting, everything. And the only reason they would ever get mad at someone is if they were cheating or just a massive douchebag in general.

There's really not a whole lot that can be done. Some people are just crybabies. So hopefully you can find some more agreeable games in the future.

[Shadoq]

I still haven't gotten a chance to go against a 'cron player with their new book, so I can't whine about those :-)

Technically it was just for fun as it was a pickup game but he was treating it like it was a tourney game. Rules lawyering the crap out of every single rule while I was trying to get through my turns fairly fast to potentially get a second game in. That really made me want to say something but I didn't because I know some people enjoy the rules portion of the game.

[Shadoq]

First off, did you let him know that you could Intercept? It's bad form, even in hardcore tournaments, to not at least say, 'By the way, I've got some Interceptor stuff' when they decide to Deepstrike.

Secondly, presuming that you're not actually a jerk (which we can't really know here, and I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt), find someone to play who isn't a whiny little *****.

I play in an area where there are a fair number of people like this. Our local tournament scene, which is probably the largest on the West Coast, is utterly obsessed with comp. The community consists of people who blame their losses on overpowered units and WAAC players, and it's all a load of crap. One of my buddies is a very good player who uses Thousand Sons. He takes terrible units. He has a Heldrake, because he's big on painting, but he's only played it maybe once and he used the autocannon and not the flamer. But he's a very good player, and wins a lot, so people here are utterly convinced that Thousand Suns are OP.

Compare this to the gaming environment in the Bay Area, where I go and game with Reecius and the Frontline Gaming crew on occasion. They are a blast to hang out with. Instead of complaining and whining like immature children, they have fun playing the game, trying out new stuff, painting, everything. And the only reason they would ever get mad at someone is if they were cheating or just a massive douchebag in general.

There's really not a whole lot that can be done. Some people are just crybabies. So hopefully you can find some more agreeable games in the future.

DL,
I'm down in El Paso, TX. Not really a big gaming scene here but it is highly polarized by people who A: LOVE COMP and using the latest and greatest and B: People who love playing as fluffernators and will actually refuse a game against people who lists they consider cheesy and will go home rather than play a game. That is part of the problem, I don't really fall in either camp and try to play games against both. I'm just happy to be home and playing and not stuck overseas in the sand box...again.

Yup, I told him PRIOR to the game even starting that my 'tides had EWO, Stims, Ion Accel, and SMS. I usually make it a point to go over my list with my opponents before the game even starts, that way there are no "Hey, I didn't know you had that!" moments.

I like to think I'm not a jerk, I tend to get the Sportsmanship prize when I play tourneys if nothing else. I've never won a tourney either and it doesn't really bother me as I play to enjoy the game and hear the lamentations of the opponent's women as I slaught---er..... I mean :-)

The last place I was at for a while, Lawton, OK had a GREAT place like Reccius. Just a little comic book shop with some back tables for gaming. Gamers were middle of the field there like me, play hard but have a good time too. Everyone goes happy and the super choads get kicked out by the store owners. Shame that store closed as far as I can tell...

[rich_clean_jammies]

Its hard. Admittedly, your list doesn't sound like much fun to play against and I mean that as no offense to you, you may be a blast to play against, but maybe your list isn't.

There are a few things you could do here:
1. Not worry about it - seriously do you care if this guy rage quit? Maybe he was having a bad day, who knows. You don't especially want him spreading rumours around the store about you, but in the larger scheme of things it probably doesn't matter. You guys found that you aren't a good match due to play style or personality. Not a huge deal.

2. Stop playing the game. As soon as you heard him complain you could have stopped playing that game and suggested something different. Maybe don't play a book mission, try making up a random mission which takes both of your armies out of their element. Playing Tau? maybe you are on an escort mission, He's playing DA? Maybe you secretly nominate a model who is fallen and he has to capture him but doesn't find out the specific model until turn 4.... Mix it up. Even mid game, make it interesting or give your opponent something to play for even if they lose the battle.

Sounds like you are running a fairly loaded list - would do great in some match-ups, horrible in other match-ups. When you draw an paper to your rock in a tournament it can really suck - you play for a tie but take the loss and move on. When you roll up for a fun game and hit a really bad matchup for the one game which you get to play this week, or maybe even this month, then that REALLY sucks!

But don't take it too personally and give the other guy another chance. Maybe he was having a bad day or maybe he got bad news and just wanted to try to forget about it with a relaxing game of 40k which he didn't end up getting. I would give it a month and offer another game, but come up with some crazy mission like I mentioned above, or draw for random secret objectives or do something to make the game more interesting for both of you.

Good luck!

[Shadoq]

Its hard. Admittedly, your list doesn't sound like much fun to play against and I mean that as no offense to you, you may be a blast to play against, but maybe your list isn't.

There are a few things you could do here:
1. Not worry about it - seriously do you care if this guy rage quit? Maybe he was having a bad day, who knows. You don't especially want him spreading rumours around the store about you, but in the larger scheme of things it probably doesn't matter. You guys found that you aren't a good match due to play style or personality. Not a huge deal.

2. Stop playing the game. As soon as you heard him complain you could have stopped playing that game and suggested something different. Maybe don't play a book mission, try making up a random mission which takes both of your armies out of their element. Playing Tau? maybe you are on an escort mission, He's playing DA? Maybe you secretly nominate a model who is fallen and he has to capture him but doesn't find out the specific model until turn 4.... Mix it up. Even mid game, make it interesting or give your opponent something to play for even if they lose the battle.

Sounds like you are running a fairly loaded list - would do great in some match-ups, horrible in other match-ups. When you draw an paper to your rock in a tournament it can really suck - you play for a tie but take the loss and move on. When you roll up for a fun game and hit a really bad matchup for the one game which you get to play this week, or maybe even this month, then that REALLY sucks!

But don't take it too personally and give the other guy another chance. Maybe he was having a bad day or maybe he got bad news and just wanted to try to forget about it with a relaxing game of 40k which he didn't end up getting. I would give it a month and offer another game, but come up with some crazy mission like I mentioned above, or draw for random secret objectives or do something to make the game more interesting for both of you.

Good luck!


Hey there!
Thanks for the feedback.
FWIW, he insisted on playing book missions and setting up exactly per the book. I would love to get a Battle Missions game in. Seriously, when was the last time anyone used one of those missions?

I also love mysterious objective and death world missions. It's awesome when S*** just randomly blows up, even if it is one of my models.

The only reason it bothers me and why I'd even post about it in the first place is this is the first time I've had someone full on completely rage quit, I mean throwing models in the box to the point of breaking and throwing dice around and stomping out of the store. I've played ALOT of people and I've played since early 3rd so it has been a fair bit. And I've never had this happen before. Like I said I do my best to make it fun for both people but I'm not going to throw a game for someone. Even the store owner was shocked. He was like, "did someone seriously just rage quit on YOU?"

I go to the point with people of letting them take back mistakes. For example, one game I had, my opponent went straight from moves to assault because he was in prime position to wreck my Riptide with his alpha dog assault unit. I asked him if he wanted to shoot still and he got all pucker faced. It was funny for me and we both had a laugh and he went back and did his shooting phase. I do that kind of stuff all the time, even in tourneys, because at the end of the day, it is still a game and I like it when both players have fun.


And to be fair, he was running a loaded list too.
A Riptide, Land Raider, Lots of Termies, Dreads, Broadsides, etc... Plenty of hard targets for me to deal with. The reason I was quickly able to do massive damage to his army was by his tactics. I got First Blood(Left a single cadre fireblade in the open, in no cover, COME ON, who wouldn't shoot at that for First Blood?), and Slay the Warlord, Belial, wearing 2+ 5++ took a shoot to the face from either the Riptides or a Fire Knife, can't remember honestly.

[Asuryan]

i play eldar and right before the new codex came out my hobby/comic store started an escalation league. as soon as the new codex came out with the new models, i started taking lists with trying to fit in the wraithknight and/or the flyer or any new rules just to try things out. in a 1000 pts game i fielded

Asurmen, Eldrad, 10 dire avengers with exarch shimmer shield pw disarm and shield of grace, 7 rangers, and a Wk and was called a power gamer, then the next week i had the CH and Wk some one else mentioned me being a waac. i won the first week but lost the second week by luck. but point being i just ignore the haters because "haters gonna hate" and i got sick of trying to explain that i just spent around 450 on the codex and new models and i want to see what they new models/rules do.

of course on a side note my most experimental list which was taking a buffed up avatar and Eldrad and then fortune the avatar and seeing how much he could take out, which 1) i don't see how this would be waac but no one made a comment on the list positive or negative and 2) each map has special rules, this one was the psychic dead zone so LD 5 for psychic powers, rolled for fortune and doom, got guide and mind war. over 4 turns got off guide and doom. and got tabled.

[Shadoq]

i play eldar and right before the new codex came out my hobby/comic store started an escalation league. as soon as the new codex came out with the new models, i started taking lists with trying to fit in the wraithknight and/or the flyer or any new rules just to try things out. in a 1000 pts game i fielded

Asurmen, Eldrad, 10 dire avengers with exarch shimmer shield pw disarm and shield of grace, 7 rangers, and a Wk and was called a power gamer, then the next week i had the CH and Wk some one else mentioned me being a waac. i won the first week but lost the second week by luck. but point being i just ignore the haters because "haters gonna hate" and i got sick of trying to explain that i just spent around 450 on the codex and new models and i want to see what they new models/rules do.

of course on a side note my most experimental list which was taking a buffed up avatar and Eldrad and then fortune the avatar and seeing how much he could take out, which 1) i don't see how this would be waac but no one made a comment on the list positive or negative and 2) each map has special rules, this one was the psychic dead zone so LD 5 for psychic powers, rolled for fortune and doom, got guide and mind war. over 4 turns got off guide and doom. and got tabled.


How is the Avatar in your experience? I'd love to take one, and just run it around...

[rle68]

well in any tournament setting you provide copies of your lists to your opps.. if they dont read then to hell with them.. in my area i went on a winning streak with my wolves and black templars...

my group wanted to start leveling point penalties for the winners of tournaments... now i say this as it caused a big stink in the store and honestly no one said a word to the guy who won for like a year straight.. i win 6 or 7 and all hell broke lose...

if people cant be bothered to read new dexs thats their won damn fault and my response to someone saying cheese and whatever.. build a better army or go back and study

[Asuryan]

How is the Avatar in your experience? I'd love to take one, and just run it around...

The Avatar did pretty well with fast shot for his melta, and i also give him disarming strike to get rid of pw and pf so i don't have to use the invuln in cc if i don't have to but i only used him in the one game and as i said did pretty well without fortune but with it i might have actually won the game.

[Denzark]

My normal suggestions involve violence or allowing one of your orifices to excrete into his miniature case. However this seems quite prevalent at the moment. So in all seriousness, in the way girls are encouraged to announce loudly 'take your hand off my arse' when they get touched up by some nonce, I would consider responding loudly: You are one of the most whiney poor sportsman bad losers I have ever played, and I am never playing you again. Then everyone in the shop knows to avoid this imbecile.

[magickbk]

You know, sometimes you just happen to draw "that guy". Here in the Philly area there is a notorious rage-quitter. I've seen him play friendly games with a good attitude, and sometimes he just loses it and takes his models off the table and goes home. One time I actually saw him rage-quit during deployment of a game because he didn't like what his opponent was putting down. I've been seeing him do this for almost 15 years, and I know he has been playing longer than that.

It seems like the situation upset you a bit, and that is understandable. I would feel terrible if I thought an opponent thought I wasn't a good sport about the game, win or loss. However, I wouldn't put much stock in the opinions of someone who literally throws their casualties into their box. Someone that volatile is either upset about something else and displacing it, or is at best a poor sport and at worst emotionally unbalanced.

You seem to approach the hobby in the right way and you seem to have a good attitude about how to carry yourself when out at the FLGS for a game, I wouldn't let this experience change the way you view yourself or your approach.

[Blusox69]

I had a similar experience on a gaming night at my local GW store playing Tau. I'm 35 and the other guy was probably early 20's, so I thought I was getting a mature game. I love painting vehicles so I have a riptide, sunshark and a pair of railheads plus suits and Farsight. I'm a little more organised than most of the players there and all my army lists are printed out from army builder prior to turning up, and always tell whoever I'm playing they are free to look over my lists. Like the OP I had intercept wherever I could get it and sure enough he began complaining as soon as I pie plated his first deepstriked terminator squad. I got accused of bangwagoning the new codex etc. Luckily the GW manager at the store has known me for some years and knows I've played Tau since they came out and told my opponent, who still grumbled. He completed the game but refused to shake hands and left the store pretty quick after the game.

Funnily enough there was another, younger guy waiting for us to finish as he was desperate to pit his Ultramarines against my Tau and try our some new anti Tau tactics. I still won, but it was a closer match and we both enjoyed it.

[Wolfshade]

Anyone who plays with the latest dex gets accused of jumping on the bandwagon.

I've had it before and I was fielding first edition models painted in old colours and you look at them, look at your models sigh and shake your head.

It is as always the same issue, people lose not because they played poorly, had a bad list or had below expected rolls, but because of the opponet. It must be the opponents fault otherwise you have no one to blame other than yourself. I don't mind if I lose, indeed I find it quite useful, you can evaluate why it didn't work, consider was it poor composition, were you asking a unit to do something beyond what it is capable and after analysis use it to either improve your game or your list.

[Deadlift]

Power bomb your opponent, is that a bit OTT ?

[Wolfshade]

Power bomb your opponent, is that a bit OTT ?

I was expecting "Crush their skull with your bare hands" from you.

[Deadlift]

I was expecting "Crush their skull with your bare hands" from you.

Bombs better, you can incorporate the gaming table too then :D

[Magpie]

What would you do? What can you say when someone throws a fit like that? Or is it just better to let them go throw their temper tantrum elsewhere?

Shout really loudly "Flee you scurrilous dog and let that drubbing be a lesson to you !" then pursue them from the venue at sword point.

If they are going to be a knob you may as well have some fun with it.

[Serenapth]

I played DE all the way from release to now. During the 4/5 edition transition before the new codex, i was winning nearly all club games and a couple of local (small20-30 person) tournys. I played friendly and even when i handed their *** to them was well received. I then 'retired' the DE for 18months until the new codex came out and all of a sudden i was now a power gamer.... Until i pointed out it was basicly the same list i had used before, even when DE were considered to be useless and i was still winning 75%.
The point of all of this is, yes you can make a good balanced 'all comers' list that will do well/great, but if you are polite and explain that rushing your mega unit into an area where its going to be dakka'd by warriors and slapped by wyches people will thank you and stop calling you a power gamer. I don't go out as WAAC as I've met too many to do that to another. Its just sometimes a basic list, well developed and known, will beat poor tactics and mega deathstar units.
If you know youre not WAAC or Jerkov, don't let it get to you, enjoy yourself, its only toy soldiers not real life.

[Mr Mystery]

Your list does not make you a Power Gamer.

Your list does not make you WAAC.

It's all about the attitude you bring to the table.

There was an article donkey's years ago on what is now Warseer, but may have still be Portent at that time. And it was 'the psychology of 40k'. Recommendations included, I kid you not.....only speaking to your opponent to say 'your turn'. Staring at your opponent to put him off. Deliberately targetting his army's latest addition 'to psyche him out'.

That to me is a classic power gamer. They want to win so badly, that sportsmanship, social mores and basic human civility goes out the window....

Don't fret it dude. Some peolpe just can't take their licks!

[Blusox69]

Who wrote that? Gordon Geko?

[Mr Mystery]

Hell no.

I'm Mr Gecko's worst nightmare......

I'm a financial complaints adjudicator!


OH! You mean the Article I referred to?

No idea. But I suspect his name might be 'Berk'

[Sly]

Shout really loudly "Flee you scurrilous dog and let that drubbing be a lesson to you !" then pursue them from the venue at sword point.

If they are going to be a knob you may as well have some fun with it.

I prefer "I can hear the lamentations of your women!", but otherwise I like this.

[Caitsidhe]

If you are polite to the person across from you and don't cheat, you are alright in my book. It doesn't matter what list you bring. Your responsibilities do not include making sure your opponent wins or even "can" win. That is their job. The list you brought sounds about standard for Tau these days. Your opponent might as well get used to it.

[Learn2Eel]

Ignore them. Your army list is never an issue for me, as they are expensive models that you worked to pay for and enjoy using. The only time I would ever refer to someone as a "power gamer" is if they were arrogant and generally had a bad attitude; the game is supposed to be fun for every player, after all.
I play semi-regularly against a tournament-winning player who brings in his tournament armies to a mostly semi-competitive store. I put up a good fight with semi or non-competitive army lists with no bitterness because I know the game still comes down to generalship and tactics. We both have fun, and we usually draw. Nothing "power-gamer-like" about wanting to use an army you have bought, assembled, painted and enjoy using. Most everyone he plays against, even if he usually tables them, has fun too because he is a really nice guy; not one of the people he has beaten ever refer to him in such a negative manner.
I feel that if someone labels another player a "power gamer" because of their army list, they are just complaining because they can't be bothered taking the time to learn how to counter such armies and tactics.

[jifel]

When someone calls you WAAC...
you table their baby-seal @$$!

Seriously though, find better opponents. Your list sounds good, not broken, so I don't see a problem. If you explained your list to him, that just means either you or your list are better than his/him. He needs to accept that and adapt if he cares about winning. If he doesn't care about winning, then he can't complain about losing.

[Blusox69]

One question, what's a WAAC? :-)

[Wolfshade]

Win at all costs

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?28463-Acronymns-in-40k&p=276536&viewfull=1#post276536

[Power Klawz]

There's no reason for someone to be so anti-social. Its just a game, and a silly one at heart. I get whupped up on all the time because I basically build lists on what looks pretty haha. I've got a large enough collection that I could probably make up several lists and field the appropriately nasty one depending on my opponent, but I genuinely don't mind losing and just because someone takes a ruthless list doesn't mean you won't have fun playing against them. Its all about rolling some dice, eating some cheetohs and enjoying yourself.

If anything after facing a really tough list I'll ask if my opponent wants to play another game with some minor changes. I don't usually get tabled, but if I totally get wiped out I usually ask if my opponent would like to play a smaller game, give me a chance to win some of my pride back ha ha. I think the only real "WAAC" players are those who have absolutely no regard for their opponents. If you've got the list from hell but are friendly and personable it will still be an enjoyable experience for both parties, so long as no one make winning more important than civility.

[DarkLink]

There was an article donkey's years ago on what is now Warseer, but may have still be Portent at that time. And it was 'the psychology of 40k'. Recommendations included, I kid you not.....only speaking to your opponent to say 'your turn'. Staring at your opponent to put him off. Deliberately targetting his army's latest addition 'to psyche him out'.

Actually, I think that's pretty funny. Of course, most nerds I play are not what anyone could consider physically intimidating by a long shot, so the silent treatment would be less 'brooding badass' and more 'anti-social loser'.

[Cojax]

Im going to throw in here give my two cents.

Imo the proper thing for both players is to make sure everyone is having fun. Its a game, have fun. Did you bring a WAAC list when your opponent brought something just to have fun? (howling banshies just because you like the way they look?) Maybe you as the WAAC player should change something up so both you and your opponent are having fun. If its a tournament all bets are off, do what ever you want. Still keep in mind even in a tournament, its about having fun. If your a true gamer and gentlemen you would find a way to make the game fun for both parties. If your opponent is being unreasonable despite your best efforts to make it fun for him, what ever play it out and let the neckbeard cry.

That all said. This is how I like to approach the game, not throwing down a judge hammer.

Have fun!

[Caitsidhe]

Ultimately there are two things to consider:

1. If you are playing a friendly, pick up game there is no reason to play anyone you don't want to play. If you think their list is hideous and broken, politely decline. Once you agree to play it, don't whine. You know the lay of the land going in and have nobody to blame but yourself for not coming adequately armed yourself or agreeing to play against something you think is so bad in the first place.

2. If you are playing in a tournament, you should assume people are bringing their "A Game" and blaming them for it makes you a whiney little... <fill in appropriate negative of choice>.

There really aren't any other options. If you agree to play, you have agreed to play. So as long as someone isn't rude or cheating, there is no reason EVER to whine.

[DarkLink]

Well, if your opponent has multiple Riptides with Interceptor, and he tells you he has multiple Riptides with Interceptor, and you decide to deepstrike despite the fact that he has multiple Riptides with Interceptor, what do you expect to happen? And when the one thing that any moderately competent 40k player could tell you will happen happens, that's on you, so you don't get to cry about it.

[Mr Mystery]

And as a serial accidental beardy player...

Some gamers will pick their list, and it will just turn out absolutely rocking nuts hard. With me, it happens with the change of edition or army book, mostly in Fantasy! Middling type army becomes super filth!

[Power Klawz]

Well, if your opponent has multiple Riptides with Interceptor, and he tells you he has multiple Riptides with Interceptor, and you decide to deepstrike despite the fact that he has multiple Riptides with Interceptor, what do you expect to happen? And when the one thing that any moderately competent 40k player could tell you will happen happens, that's on you, so you don't get to cry about it.

This is also pretty pertinent. Why would you deep strike terminators into the sandbox that two riptides are making castles in? That's just bad, and no matter how silly your list is or isn't, he could have made smarter decisions. His losing probably had a lot more to do with his lack of ability than he'd care to admit, the fact that you just so happen to have 2 shiny new robots was probably just something he could easily fixate on and blame rather than enjoying himself and learning from his obvious mistakes.

[Caitsidhe]

The funny thing is I've had GREAT success Deep Striking against Tau, but I dont' rely on large units for it. I consider that kind of suicide. I use lots of small to medium sized Deep Strike units coming in likely in numbers (not to mention incoming Drakes). It isn't that hard to overrun the Tau's ability to intercept.

Coming in with a single, big Deep Strike unit that is going to be all ready to get hit with pie plates and templates is kind of foolish.

[laigenyee]

He delivered the goods to your doorstep and you did what you had to do. What was he expecting you to do? Let him charge? Charge with your Riptide?

[DarkLink]

You should get a rematch, and let him deepstrike, and ignore the Terminators and let them assault you, then when he goes to attack; "WHATYOUHAVEHOWMANYPOWERFISTATTACKS!!!!!!!!!!!", flip the table, and storm out.

[Sainhann]

Well the blame really belongs to GW since they put out certain models that tend to be overpowered due to ability or lower than it should be point cost.

Or they release a new Codex that has some very good things in it so that gamers will jump on it and buy the models for the army. Then it is months before the next Codex but until then many gamers have been playing the last Codex and have been doing quite well.

So while there are some players who will do anything for a win (WAACer/Power Gamer) if GW put a bit more thought into some of the units and Codex's so that the armies are a bit more balance then it would be harder to be a (WAACer/Power Gamer).

So yes Chaos gets the Double Flying Princes and 2-3 Heldrakes and Tau has the Riptides with it 3+ Invulnerable save and no cover save Marker Lights, Eldar will have the Wave Serpent Spam of 4-6 Wave Serpents in the army, Necron's have some very good Flyers but they are an older book and many of the real WAACer/Power Gamers have move on to new armies (just like GW wants).

Soon it will be the Marines who like everyone else will be getting a huge model plus rumor has something that is bigger than a Terminator but smaller than a Dreadnought.

Then people will be crying about how overpowered Marines are.

Oh and the individual did have a point about certain players being able to game with their pocket book, because today if you wanted to build a new army from start it is not cheap and with the way the economy is many just don't have the income to waste on what is now a luxury gaming hobby.

Come on to build an Eldar army that would give you abilty to build several lists (at least one of every unit) would cost you around $2,000-$2,500 and well many individuals just don't have that type of money to throw around. Then add in the cost of paint and carrying cases and Codexs and Rulebook.

Oh and with GW raising prices this will only go up and not down.

Now in 6th Edition the game is a bit more balance but there have still been several units that needed a bit more work and thought put into.

[daboarder]

In the interest of preventing this turning into another missplaced GW hate rant,

I recently had a mate who started the game and asked me to basically teach them the game.

I kinda went like this,

first game "bring your list, whatever you want due to looking cool, sounding cool whatever, I'll bring my list I've been playing for a year now. Your going to get schooled"

Now the reason I beat him badly was so that it would, in a way to teach him how complex the game can be and how to think laterally about it, such as sniping out characters, using Focus fire, punishing the inadequacies in his list, things like that.

After that game, I sat down with him and we re-worked his list so that it had more direction and was less of a mish mash, then we played again.

for the next few games I would offer him advice on what I thought was an appropriate move during his turn, providing an explanation of why.

The next step was to take the training wheel off again and stop holding his hand, buy this point I was still beating him, but it was far less crushing.

He's turning into a competent player and working his list toward something that is unique to how he plays and even managing to put some serious hurt on my army in our games now, once he clocks that movement is the key (he's playing tau) he's going to be a good player.

I would like to state that at no point in this did I compromise my list or my gameplay.

[Shadoq]

You should get a rematch, and let him deepstrike, and ignore the Terminators and let them assault you, then when he goes to attack; "WHATYOUHAVEHOWMANYPOWERFISTATTACKS!!!!!!!!!!!", flip the table, and storm out.

This. I'd really REALLY like to do this.
But somehow I doubt the store owner would appreciate it too much :-)

Maybe next time I should go for 3 Riptides and an allied Avatar and Wraithknight....

[magickbk]

Maybe next time I should go for 3 Riptides and an allied Avatar and Wraithknight....

Next time he'll be stacked with heavy weapons to take down the Riptides. Don't take any. It will BLOW HIS MIND.

[chicop76]

I retired my Tau for awhile since most my games never got past turn 2 due to rage quiting. My daemon games at least last turn 3, but when they quit it is not rage except once.

With Deamons people don't mind the lost since of theses factors.
1. They know I been playing Daemon since day one. Was kicking butt with them even when people said they sucked.
2. Majority of my army is painted and have a lot of metal which tells players it's not a band wagon army.
3. They can at least kill a portion of the army and typically it's a loss and not a beat down.

I have people say it's typically a fun game. Lately however the +2 invulnerable saves and like 8 buffs on one unit is pissing people off. When the farseer lost warding I've been adding more psykers to my army.

With Tau however it's differant. I get actual people that just hate facing them. The problem here is that most games I do not tale to many losses. With daemons I play very aggressive. With Tau I play very laid back and just blast anything that gets near.

Here is a typical Tau game. X does this and that. I also do this and that etc.

My opponent goes ok, ok, ok.

Turn 1 my riptides start pie plating squads like broadsides, I use my finders to strip cover first. At the end of turn one all his sides are dead.

That's when that's bs etc. Comes out.

The best part is I move my entire army up. Once my fire warriors are in triple tap range with bs 5 shooting my opponent goes wtf.

Than if they assault with 2-3 units. I have my finders mark them and than triple tapping over watch at normal bs happens, plus almost the entire army shooting back.

Most get mad since they can't deep strike, come from reserves, lose their mobility, can't assault with a handful of models, etc.

Tau leaves players frustrated. Against daemons they have bs too, but atleast you don't lose half your army getting to them and another half assaulting them. Even if you manage to win combat you are stuck in the open and blasted apart.

With Daemons it seems bad, but you feel you can do something against them. With Tau you have to come with your A game or get blasted away.

I also like to mention I been playing Tau since day one. I didn't play them in 5th, but had used them in 3rd and 4th. Heck I have Anglar Prok, Metal aun'Shi, Metal stealth suits, metal kroot hounds, and forge world piranas. That should tell you how long I been playing them.

That being said I rotate my armies. I either play Sisters, Grey Knights, Nids, Tau, Daemons, or Imperial Guard against some one. I can play space marines or dark angels if my son let's me borrow his models. I also can do Eldar if I can get them back from my brother.

I usually try to build fun list and try out new units. I don't like playing tournament list out side of tournaments. Doing so can help people prepare aginst what I bring in a tournament or get the use to the list.

[Renegade]

I friend of mine use to get a bit of this. Ok his lists were good, but he was also a very good player.

I would shrug my shoulders and ask the other dude (or dudette) if they want to quit or play on? Not much point playing if your not having fun.

Personally, I ask the other player at the start of the game if they want to know any special rules. I wont ask for there's as that takes something from the enjoyment for me, but I will ask to see the rules if it seems a bit WTH.

Unfortunately you find people that complain its not fair whatever you do and wherever you go. They do it when a company raises prices, their football team lost, they have to pay more taxes or the socialists just got kicked out.