How to kill a Wraithknight

[flashkid123]

I have an idea on how to kill a WK, in 1 turn. Take a nurgle daemon prince, give it a bale sword, wings, and zoom it toward the WK, then go first, 4+ poison it, and instant death it. Done and dusted, 300+ odd points gone.

Thoughts?

[Wolfshade]

There are multiple ways to kill a Wraightknight. But consideration needs to be given that the Eldar player has forced you to deal with the knight at the expense of everything else. If it were a distraction, you have brought that, your prince is out of position near the enemy lines and would be ripe pickings.

[DrLove42]

Not to mention your unit costs nearly what the Wraithknight does....

Also i'm not sure it can move that fast, especially since your plan relies on you going first, in which case your opponent can deploy to counter it.

[flashkid123]

Ah, but the prince will have wings so it can catch up with the WK. Also, give it exalted rewards to up its survivablity, then the eldar army shoots at it, and not the other beasties moving up the board.

[DrLove42]

Maybe.

But to me this isn't a "to kill a wraithknight". This is "too kill any unit i don't like". Swarmlord, Tyrannofex, Command Squad, that tank that screws you over

Its an alpha strike tactic that kills anything

[Belly]

Ah, but the prince will have wings so it can catch up with the WK. Also, give it exalted rewards to up its survivablity, then the eldar army shoots at it, and not the other beasties moving up the board.

And then the eldar player will laugh after you sink more points into your model, only to have it countered by 20 models from his troops section. Guardians wound anything on a 6, at ap2. We loves your MC's.

[Learn2Eel]

Depending on the configuration, don't think about "killing" it; think about "neutralizing" it. If you don't present it with good targets - i.e. you are mostly an infantry army and it has wraithcannons - you can afford to ignore it more than most. If you have sacrificial units - of which Tyranids have in abundance above all others - then just send them in (if you can catch it) while dealing with the rest of the army. I've found that shooting at it with a few heavy weapons here and there simply will not work; it is all or nothing, and for a unit with that price tag, I really don't think it is worth using an entire army (what it usually takes) to try and kill it in one turn. A smart Eldar player will play on the fact that it is scary and use it as the ultimate fire sink.

[flashkid123]

If your talking about neutralising it, take a mastery 3 psyker and hope you get puppet master. Imagine the look on the other players face! Their suncannon obliterating their precious *insert good eldar unit her*. :)

[Learn2Eel]

Being in range, casting the power, deny the witch....hmm. Isn't it a witchfire that has to roll to hit as well? Seems a bit too....unreliable, to me. Useful, obviously. I don't have the rulebook at hand, but I think it would be pretty easy for a Wraithknight to stay out of range.

[G00dySmiley]

most wraithknights will not be 300 points, if they take sun cannon/scatter laser for 5++ it will be 300, but melee knight with 5++ is 250 and 2 heavy d cannon is 240.

stock 240 is generally considered the best way to go so yea even if sucessful they will be in a great spot to light the prince up with serpent fire and/or reaper fire

[DarkLink]

Keep Wraithknights stock. Eldar can do AP2 elsewhere for cheaper. The Str10 guns make the Wraithknight more flexible than super-expensive blasts, and you don't really need the Invulnerable save.


I have an idea on how to kill a WK, in 1 turn. Take a nurgle daemon prince, give it a bale sword, wings, and zoom it toward the WK, then go first, 4+ poison it, and instant death it. Done and dusted, 300+ odd points gone.

Thoughts?

How do you assault turn 1 if you go first?

[GrauGeist]

How about 300 points of Eldar Guardians? How many Shuricats is that?

[Lord Krungharr]

It's nearly impossible to have a Daemon Prince in charge range on Turn 1, especially if the Daemons go first, unless the opponent Scouts or Infiltrates further into the middle of the table. The Nurgle Prince (which are excellent w 3 Biomancies and Balesword) would usually need to Swoop 24" and then Glide/Assault Turn 2. Assuming it nixed the Wraithknight (decent assumption unless the WK is not in cover or gets hit w a Skull Cannon first) then the rest of the Eldar army would be free to shoot the crap out of the Daemon Prince, in which case it would probably die.

If possible, I think a better way would be Krak Missiles, after Enfeebling, and Vector Striking too. Massed Vector Striking can be a very good use of FMCs.

Puppet Master is 24" range I think, so very unlikely to be cast in Turn 1 if the Daemons go first. It does not roll to hit, as it's a Malediction, but that would be pretty awesome to turn the WK onto its own brethren pointy-heads. But with S10 or other ID weapons on the table, I go for Biomancies in the hopes of Iron Arm.

[Denzark]

I have an idea on how to kill a WK, in 1 turn. Take a nurgle daemon prince, give it a bale sword, wings, and zoom it toward the WK, then go first, 4+ poison it, and instant death it. Done and dusted, 300+ odd points gone.

Thoughts?

My thoughts are that this will not work... In a GK, SW, DA, BA, BT, or SM army.

[Infinite Freedom]

Killed three in the last week in the exact same way: Drop Pod Sternguard. 20 Hellfire rounds hitting on 3's + wounding on 2's = Dead Wraithknight and first blood.

[z3n1st]

10 Sternguard within 12" of the knight (and presumably the rest of the eldar army), means you traded a 285 point unit for a 240-250 pt unit, and although your chances are very good to take it out (or make it mostly dead and thus vulnerable to a cannon or two), I am not sure how trading 'knights' is a good strategy


Maybe a better question/challenge is how do you kill the wraithknight with: the least amount of points/least amount of risk

Lets assume you have the same amount of points to spend and keep it at base cost for the knight: 240 pts

[Havik110]

You kill a wraith knight the same way you kill tyranid big bugs...

1. Sternguard in a pod...2+ poison *20 shots...he will fail 3+ saves
2. Dark eldar...lances or poison...shoot the lances 1st and make him give up saves (obviously re think this if his toe is in area terrain)...I like trueborn with the duke or even normal warriors in a raider with racks...heck take 20 warriors give them a hemo, the duke and a conceal farseer or spirit seer....(obviously points heavy but meh)

[DarkLink]

Killed three in the last week in the exact same way: Drop Pod Sternguard. 20 Hellfire rounds hitting on 3's + wounding on 2's = Dead Wraithknight and first blood.

Yup. Of course, I don't know why he didn't just reserve the Wraithknight. But whatever.

[isotope99]

Also the average of 20 shots * 2/3 hit *5/6 wound *1/3 failed saves is only 3.7 so you have to get pretty lucky to put it down in one round as it has 6 wounds. If it has the suncannon (a fairer points comparison), you will lose most of the sternguard in return fire and/or get kicked to death in assault (only 1 wound on average even with the full squad firing on overwatch, subtantially less if the eldar shoot you a bit first)

[Infinite Freedom]

Yup. Of course, I don't know why he didn't just reserve the Wraithknight. But whatever.

First one: I had an Achilles on the table. Only thing she had that could kill it reliably was the Wraithknight and, in the opinion of my opponent, it had to die before the Thunderfire cannon could open up.

Second Time: They won first turn roll off, it's just that I seized.

Third: Same scenario as the second.

[Infinite Freedom]

Also the average of 20 shots * 2/3 hit *5/6 wound *1/3 failed saves is only 3.7 so you have to get pretty lucky to put it down in one round as it has 6 wounds. If it has the suncannon (a fairer points comparison), you will lose most of the sternguard in return fire and/or get kicked to death in assault (only 1 wound on average even with the full squad firing on overwatch, subtantially less if the eldar shoot you a bit first)

I lucked out.

[Yriel_The_Angelic]

2 venoms with dual splinter cannons each does the trick for me. 75 each as I do love me my night shields. Takes em out in 1-2 turns depending on whether I roll unnaturally horrible or not.

[G00dySmiley]

Killed three in the last week in the exact same way: Drop Pod Sternguard. 20 Hellfire rounds hitting on 3's + wounding on 2's = Dead Wraithknight and first blood.

your dice were grea tthen... plus you probably have more points in that squad than your opponent does in the wraithknight.

statistically you have 13.3 hits 11.1 wounds 3.7 unsaves wounds

as far as investment you have 10 sternguard at 250 in a 35 point pod. 285... unless they go with the most expensive loadout you would reasonably take (suncannon/shield and scatter laser at 300). even then they will punk you in an assault the next turn unless you already softened it up with a few mroe woulnd which means they are still probably going to rain down a shuriken death on the sternguard.

it is certainly a way to deal with it, but seems mroe along the lines of your oppenent should statistically be coming ahead in this exchange.

[Infinite Freedom]

Didn't feel like devoting my two predators to the death of the Wraithknight when there were two Wraithlords stomping around as well.

[Sainhann]

So many ways to drop him in just one round of shooting.

But here are two ways to do it with just one shot.

Illic; shoots needing 2+ to hit and then rolls a 6 bang one shot kill.

A Squad of Wraithguard disembark from Wave Serpent and like Illic all they need is to roll a 6 on a wound roll.

As for other ways there are Snipers, Las Cannon Heavy Weapon Sections can drop him fairly quickly.

A real smart Eldar player would not even take one because there are so many better choices in the Heavy Support, War Walkers, Fire Prism's (can get two of these for nearly the same point cost as a naked WK.

It only has two shots unless you really want to spend the points and only has four attacks and will need 4+ to hit most things in Close Combat.

So sucky firepower and not a Hand-to-hand model either with a okay save except when being hit with AP 3 weapons.

Oh and good thing this is not 2nd or 3rd Edition because can we say Vortex Grenade. Lost my Avatar many times to that.

No if you are facing an Eldar player with one of these on the table ignore it and go after his other units. Once they have been dealt with it should be easy to kill then.

[DarkLink]

Seriously, Sainhann? Go to frontpage BOLS. Click on the latest article by Reecius, one of the best Eldar players there is. See what he has to say about the Wraithknight. You do not know what you are talking about.

[DrLove42]

S
Oh and good thing this is not 2nd or 3rd Edition because can we say Vortex Grenade. Lost my Avatar many times to that.

No if you are facing an Eldar player with one of these on the table ignore it and go after his other units. Once they have been dealt with it should be easy to kill then.

Yeah its a good thing this model wasn't released 15 years ago, or it would not have been any good....

As for "ignore it". If you've got an army that can ignore the firepower that thing puts out with no problems...good for you.

Your reasons for not taking one are the same as every other MC. Or Vehicle (why take a land raider? I could shoot it once with a lascannon and roll a 6!)

[Neelam]

A vanquisher or two with Beast Hunter Shells, 72" BS4 Twin-linked (co-ax rule) S8 AP2 Instant Death.

Take an Armored Company as allies and have a couple of these with standard Russes for troop choices.

[dwez]

As a nid player I can only speal for my Codex.

I enfeebled one so it took a couple of wounds from a lot Devourers and was tarpitted by Termagants. My buddy was using a Revenant Titan instead I think you'll agree it looks kind of comical

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/K8V7LGqY3H0RYf2D-Vg3HLYp6oD6svQltFYc7IRQjZ0=w302-h402-no

I had a brain fart and was also convinced the Termagants could wound it, for some reason I keep thinking they're St4, once we reinstated the two wounds I thought they'd caused a Warp Speed Tervigon came in and smashed it to pieces.

However, that's still a lot to bring it down, the Termagants as a tarpit was neat but I did think Tyranid Shrikes with Toxin Sacs, lash whips and boneswords or, a Prime with LW+BS with warriors with boneswords might do it for less than the cost of the Wraithknight. Wounding on 4's and no armour saves seems a possibilty for unit of 3 Warriors - 12 attacks on the charge, but I may be missing something I don't have the Wraithknight stats or Tyranid Codex to hand.

[DrLove42]

How many of these "methods to kill it" are things you'd include in a standard all comers list? WOuld you run these units in a tournie, or just if you knew you were facing one of these beasties

[Caitsidhe]

For the most part, I don't see a need to single out the Wraithknight. As others have commented, most of the means of killing the Wraithknight are the same means I would use to kill any Monstrous Creature or particularly troublesome unit. I think the mobility of the Wraithknight limits your melee options to Flying Monstrous Creatures if you want to engage it in a reliable way. I suspect most people will kill it thus:

1. Shoot it with appropriate with mid to long range, high strength AP-1 or 2 weapons (or Poison) and attrition it as much as possible.

2. Engage it with deadly FMC which strikes before it to finish it off. *Or unit with poison in melee to kill it by volume.

[Bigred]

It's totally killable - it costs the same as a Land Raider after all. Like the Raider, you can certainly kill the thing, but you are going to have to try. Its not going down to incidental fore from piecemeal units.

I agree with Reecius who is both one of the best Eldar players in the world and a personal friend. The Wraithknight is an auto-include because it offers something the Eldar codex didn't have before, a combination of speed, resiliance, and a player-fear inducing weapons loadout.

It's main value will be not the actual killing it does, but the zone/board control it gives the Eldar player. It's fast enough to stay out of most trouble, yet potent enough to make players think twice before moving units peicemeal into its zone of control - which gives the Eldar a perfect tool for winning missions and managing objectives.

Only the Wraithlord, or the older 4th Edition Holo-falcons had that kind of resilience in the past, and neither was as good as the Wraithknight.

[z3n1st]

How many of these "methods to kill it" are things you'd include in a standard all comers list? WOuld you run these units in a tournie, or just if you knew you were facing one of these beasties

I think this speaks volumes to its survivability, its not that it can't be killed, but did you opponent bring the tools for the job, especially when he is facing it from across the table at a tournament.

I repect Reecius and his comments on the Wraithknight, it has made me re-consider it as more than just a centerpiece, although I still don't know about its true versatility. I have watched the BatReps he posted, the wraithknight wasn't bad in any of them, but neither was it I think OMGAMAZING!

Maybe a batrep with it pitted against the Tau gunline and the also against the FMC/Hound rush, using the same list and then see just how amazing or meh it is. I am sure Reecius has access to buddies with lists like those, consider that a challenge on their behalf! I would love to see the reps

[DarkLink]

Are you kidding? In the one against CSM Nurgle his Wraithknight killed a Daemon Prince, 4-5 Obliterators, and then sprinted across the board to kill a unit of cultists that was going for an objective that nothing else in Reecius' army was in position to reach. And he did it all while rolling absolutely terribly. I don't know how much it killed in the other games, but it was always doing something useful. I know against IG Frankie wasted a couple of turns of firepower shooting at it, and the Wraithknight got into his deployment zone and wiped out his remaining scoring units and prevented him from chasing after the Relic, so even if it didn't kill its points it had a solid performance.

[Caitsidhe]

Are you kidding? In the one against CSM Nurgle his Wraithknight killed a Daemon Prince, 4-5 Obliterators, and then sprinted across the board to kill a unit of cultists that was going for an objective that nothing else in Reecius' army was in position to reach. And he did it all while rolling absolutely terribly. I don't know how much it killed in the other games, but it was always doing something useful. I know against IG Frankie wasted a couple of turns of firepower shooting at it, and the Wraithknight got into his deployment zone and wiped out his remaining scoring units and prevented him from chasing after the Relic, so even if it didn't kill its points it had a solid performance.

I'm not kidding. :) I think the Wraithknight is a fine model and very durable. I'm just saying that is the best option for CSM to kill it (or anyone). You attrition what wounds you can prior to hitting it with something solid and hopefully turning it off before it gets to retaliate.

[Sainhann]

Seriously, Sainhann? Go to frontpage BOLS. Click on the latest article by Reecius, one of the best Eldar players there is. See what he has to say about the Wraithknight. You do not know what you are talking about.

I don't, interesting since I have been playing Eldar since when they first came out and that was what 23 years ago. So I know Eldar and I know what is needed to kill things. Oh and I do know what I am talking about.

Sure if your opponent is running an Elite or vehicle heavy army the Wraithknight should do quite well. But against the Imperial Guard army that I tend to run it will not do well because I only run with a few low point Chimera's and a ton of troops.

Sure it not built to take out a Wraithknight since it is built to take out vehicles that get to close to my troops. It has nothing but cannon fodder in it.

But Sniper's, Poison attacks, Las Cannons, Wraithquard, Fire Dragons, Terminator's with Shields, troops with Melta Bombs etc... can kill a Wraithknight and some of them can do it in one turn or just one shot.

[40kGamer]

Like everything in the game some army builds will absolutely hate the Wraithknight and others will giggle with glee when it is deployed. The all comers army that I dread facing in tourney's is Dark Eldar... I believe they come down on the 'giggle with glee' side when the Wraithknight comes out.

[Sonikgav]

Q. How do you kill a Wraithknight

A. Same way people have been killing Wraithlords for the last 15 years, except twice!

Moving On!

[DarkLink]

I'm not kidding. :) I think the Wraithknight is a fine model and very durable. I'm just saying that is the best option for CSM to kill it (or anyone). You attrition what wounds you can prior to hitting it with something solid and hopefully turning it off before it gets to retaliate.

I meant literally, you said you didn't think the Wraithknight performed particularly well in any of the games, despite one where it killed like 600pts on its own and denied an objective to the enemy. That specifically is a pretty good performance.

Edit:


The all comers army that I dread facing in tourney's is Dark Eldar... I believe they come down on the 'giggle with glee' side when the Wraithknight comes out.

Take a couple Wave Serpents, and you'll practically auto-win that matchup though. Mechdar is super-awesome against DE. That's one bad matchup you can wave off (heh, pun).

[Caitsidhe]

I meant literally, you said you didn't think the Wraithknight performed particularly well in any of the games, despite one where it killed like 600pts on its own and denied an objective to the enemy. That specifically is a pretty good performance.

I didn't say that? Did I? I don't remember commenting on how well the darn thing performs at all.

[GrauGeist]

How many of these "methods to kill it" are things you'd include in a standard all comers list? WOuld you run these units in a tournie, or just if you knew you were facing one of these beasties

Rending Genestealers & pseudo-Rending Shuricats of some sort are pretty common, same with IG Lascannon gunships. I'd probably include some flavor of them in a tournament list.

[DarkLink]

It's been a while since Genestealers have been common, or even present, competitively.


I didn't say that? Did I? I don't remember commenting on how well the darn thing performs at all.

Oh, oops, I was actually responding to z3n1st, then got mixed up when you quoted me. He's the one who said that.

[Caitsidhe]

Oh, oops, I was actually responding to z3n1st, then got mixed up when you quoted me. He's the one who said that.

Totally my fault. When I saw you ask about kidding I didn't read close enough to realize you weren't talking to me. :)

[z3n1st]

Are you kidding? In the one against CSM Nurgle his Wraithknight killed a Daemon Prince, 4-5 Obliterators, and then sprinted across the board to kill a unit of cultists that was going for an objective that nothing else in Reecius' army was in position to reach. And he did it all while rolling absolutely terribly. I don't know how much it killed in the other games, but it was always doing something useful. I know against IG Frankie wasted a couple of turns of firepower shooting at it, and the Wraithknight got into his deployment zone and wiped out his remaining scoring units and prevented him from chasing after the Relic, so even if it didn't kill its points it had a solid performance.

Demon Lord, 4 oblits and a unit of cultists. Was it amazing? No it was what was expected of a Monstrous Creature with Str10 and Jump Infantry. Was it meh? Certainly not for the reasons you stated. Not saying the wraithknight is bad, in fact I am fairly certain I indicated that Reecius batreps are what convinced me that he was actually pretty good, but amazing? No. Warpspiders, now those guys are amazing, Wave serpernt? Amazing.

[daboarder]

Demon Lord, 4 oblits and a unit of cultists. Was it amazing? No it was what was expected of a Monstrous Creature with Str10 and Jump Infantry. Was it meh? Certainly not for the reasons you stated. Not saying the wraithknight is bad, in fact I am fairly certain I indicated that Reecius batreps are what convinced me that he was actually pretty good, but amazing? No. Warpspiders, now those guys are amazing, Wave serpernt? Amazing.

The fact that the daemon lord, cost more than the knight, and was the most likely thing in hte army to actually kill it says it all really.

[DarkLink]

Any time a single model kills a Daemon Prince, 4 Obliterators, and has the speed to fill the gaps in your army and do stuff like kill enemy scoring units that are far, far away, all in one game, that's just about the definition of awesome performance. Just the Obliterators alone are enough to make the Wraithknight's points back handily.

[z3n1st]

I have had a bike squad do nearly the same thing (kill mephiston, a squad of TH/SS and then wipe another unit), all with less points. Its not a measuring contest I am just pointing out that he is not the only unit capable of doing it. If he did that every game then yeah, AMAZING. 1 game? that is not a definition of amazing unless taken in the context of only that game.

Another amazing feat; 3 fire dragons take and win a multi-charge from Dante and the golden boys, and a full squad of BA assault marines. Does that make them the best assault unit? no.


Also sorry for the thread derailment not my intent. Although I don't share the same enthusiasm as others (yet) in regards to this model the topic was how to kill one.

my two cents uses a more expensive combo, but also does it fairly reliably from across the table (even first turn):

10 reapers with starshot missiles led by tau commander with CnCN, MSS, and Puretide

twinlinked, nightvision, monster hunters that ignore cover firing STR8AP3 guns

[DarkLink]

My point is, you claimed that the Wraithknight did not perform particularly well in any of the battles. That is blatantly not true.

[z3n1st]

I think this speaks volumes to its survivability, its not that it can't be killed, but did you opponent bring the tools for the job, especially when he is facing it from across the table at a tournament.

I repect Reecius and his comments on the Wraithknight, it has made me re-consider it as more than just a centerpiece, although I still don't know about its true versatility. I have watched the BatReps he posted, the wraithknight wasn't bad in any of them, but neither was it I think OMGAMAZING!

Maybe a batrep with it pitted against the Tau gunline and the also against the FMC/Hound rush, using the same list and then see just how amazing or meh it is. I am sure Reecius has access to buddies with lists like those, consider that a challenge on their behalf! I would love to see the reps

So as you can see I never said it didn't perform well, I simply said it wasn't OMGAMAZING.

[daboarder]

So as you can see I never said it didn't perform well, I simply said it wasn't OMGAMAZING.

You don't think killing two or three times its points, without taking a scratch is pretty amazing?

oh and bringing anecdotal evidence, like a bike squad performing far above the norm. Isn't a valid argument.

[z3n1st]

Its not even an argument, more like evidence that its not the only thing that can do it. Simply put I choose to not be amazed by one performance (being the chaos one, as the IG one although still good wasn't in the same realm of efficiency). If people here wish to declare it our new lord and master, great. If others wish to say its the worst thing in the codex, then that also would be their opinion (likely not one shared by anyone seeing those batreps or even playing one, but only theorizing how weak it is).

Not sure why I have to defend my opinion as anything, but my opinion. I don't feel it was OMGAMAZING, nuff said.

[Sainhann]

You don't think killing two or three times its points, without taking a scratch is pretty amazing?

oh and bringing anecdotal evidence, like a bike squad performing far above the norm. Isn't a valid argument.

Well the Imperial Guard player just might have done better if he didn't camp everything behind the Aegis Wall.

Should have move those vehicles out and not make it easy for the Eldar, plus Reese did get lucky in that game.

[daboarder]

Well the Imperial Guard player just might have done better if he didn't camp everything behind the Aegis Wall.

Should have move those vehicles out and not make it easy for the Eldar, plus Reese did get lucky in that game.

Firstly I don't see how that's relevant to the Wraithknight killing teh DP and the Oblits, and secondly that doesn't make the Knight the overpriced plastic trash, that serves to highlight the terribleness of the new codex, you've been claiming.

[Lost Vyper]

Only couple of games under my belt with my Wraithknight "Voitto" (Victory in finnish) and man does he gather some fire! Both GK and BA prioritized it straight up and in both games he didn´t hang on so long. But it wasn´t any Lascannon/Meltagun fire which brought him down, it was DAKKA and more DAKKA...Heavy Bolters or Psycannons and some bad rolling on saves. My loadout is the CC one, with 2 x Scatterlasers and i´m dying to find out , how he fares against Necrons or CSM!

Today i´m facing Space Puppies and BA or GK in a 3 vs. 3 match. Let´s see what happens...

ps. Eldar Heavy section´s my favorite, and i always run with at least 2 x 3 WW´s (SL+Star c.). It´s too filled in my opinion, but hey, i´m still starting to love the new codex!:cool:

[G00dySmiley]

I just finished magnetising all the wepaons and arms today so i cna do all varients (side note seriously gw just one more weapon base on the sprue would have saved me so much time /growl) , I can retire the flyer base that I have been running. compared to other things in the heavy support I can say I think my bet one most powerful are a stock wraithknight, 5 man reaper squad on a icarus lascannon w/ exarch and fast shot, and either a fire prism or outflanking scatter laser/missile of lance in a pinch (thanks to magnetizing all weapons options are possible)

so far I have run the wraithknight in stock form and sun cannon. the sun cannon is just so siuational, if the opponent brought termies then you laugh and dance with glee, but against other armies i have found myself missing the heavy d cannons (which i still cannot say with a straight face as it makes me think of early 90's rappers... yo yo yo this is dj heavy d mc) you can punch armor, assault most elite squads without many exceptions. It can die like any monstrous creature but most armies have to list tailor to do it. dark eldar and tyranids being the exception with all the poison, I will in those cases accept the loss and throw my usual 4 wave serpents zippign around and doign the jobs for me.

is he the end all be all best thing in the game? no... is it a good sue of points? yes. ask any tyranid player what they would pay points wise for the wraithknight as a T8 W6 3= monstrous crature who can have an option of a 5++ ... they would mostly be willing to pay more points than we do

[Caitsidhe]

My own experiences with the Wraithknight are that it is a serious threat and cannot be taken lightly. The mobility + dangerous shooting make it something which must be silenced. It has just enough wounds that you have to attrition it before you engage it with a Daemon Prince w/Black Mace. If even one wound is left it will kill the DP when it retaliates.

Like all of 6th Edition MC and FMC it is rather effective at its job. More and more I see every game as being a battle between the titans, but perhaps that is just bias speaking. It is like watching old Godzilla movies. :) The Wraithknight does exactly what it is supposed to do. It ties up a heavy amount of firepower/threat which allows the Eldar a freer hand with their shooting.

[DarkLink]

Firstly I don't see how that's relevant to the Wraithknight killing teh DP and the Oblits, and secondly that doesn't make the Knight the overpriced plastic trash, that serves to highlight the terribleness of the new codex, you've been claiming.

He's been ranting about how his army auto-kills the Wraithknight before the game even starts, and that obviously this means every single other possible army in the entire game can do the exact same thing and the Wraithknight is the worst model EVAR. Even after I broke down his armylist he supplied and explained how I would use a Wraithknight against it in a fashion that would be well worth its points, he was like 'but I have Krak grenades, so I would kill it'. Because wounding on 6's is sooooo OP.



Should have move those vehicles out and not make it easy for the Eldar, plus Reese did get lucky in that game.

Actually, if you'd bothered to watch the video objectively, you'd notice that Reece was rolling terribly. He failed/Perils'd half of his Psychic powers, the Wraithknight only hit with like two close combat attacks all game, and in general Reece's dice were crap.

[Infinite Freedom]

Q. How do you kill a Wraithknight

A. Same way people have been killing Wraithlords for the last 15 years, except twice!

Moving On!

Agreed.

[Sainhann]

He's been ranting about how his army auto-kills the Wraithknight before the game even starts, and that obviously this means every single other possible army in the entire game can do the exact same thing and the Wraithknight is the worst model EVAR. Even after I broke down his armylist he supplied and explained how I would use a Wraithknight against it in a fashion that would be well worth its points, he was like 'but I have Krak grenades, so I would kill it'. Because wounding on 6's is sooooo OP.

Actually, if you'd bothered to watch the video objectively, you'd notice that Reece was rolling terribly. He failed/Perils'd half of his Psychic powers, the Wraithknight only hit with like two close combat attacks all game, and in general Reece's dice were crap.

I never said that it would auto kill it but that the army could kill it.

Sure you could work at killing off a Squad at a time or get tied up because you failed to kill enough and I throw in another Squad to put more attacks onto it to to keep it tied up.

Yes you can discount the Krak Grenades that a majority of my Guardsmen carrying but the thing is they are no longer just strength 3 when in Close Combat with most Vehicles or Wraithknights. Nope they will be Strength 6 and yes while they will need to roll "6's" to wound you get enough hit in the "6's" will come.

As Lost Vyper has pointed out it not the heavy hitting weapons that end up killing but the mass volume of fire from weapons that do need "6's" to wound.

This is where Snipers shine since they only need "4's" to wound and the biggest defense a Wraithknight has is its toughness 8 and due to this being hard to wound.

So yes the best suited armies to drop one quickly are Imperial Guard, Eldar & Tau since they can mass the volume of fire needed to drop it.

Eldar would be the best since they can field units that can drop it in one round of shooting, Fire Dragons, Wraithguard.

Oh and Snipers will be it worst enemy due to their ability to wound it.

[DarkLink]

Snipers? Random grenades in assault? I've already tread those tired arguments before. I give up. Against all reason, rationality, the arguments of some very, very good players that are based on actual experience rather than abstract theory, and understanding of both 40k and simple statistics, you win.

[Infinite Freedom]

Brought another down. Two rounds of shooting from a Las Pred killed it.

On another note, everyone in my area seems to love the Suncannon/Scatter Laser combo since that is all that I am seeing on them.

[G00dySmiley]

Brought another down. Two rounds of shooting from a Las Pred killed it.

On another note, everyone in my area seems to love the Suncannon/Scatter Laser combo since that is all that I am seeing on them.

suncannon is cool.. but i would say the plain jane 240 point varient is the way to go,

las cannon spam is a pretty reliable way to bring it down, then again it should bring any MC down. still rolling above average to do it in 2 turns though

ignoring the hit math and assumign you got 3 hites every time you wound on 3's so shoudl be piling on 2 wounds per turn (slightly less once hits in but i am to lazy to calculate 3 twinlinked shots right now)

statistically it should take mroe than 3 turns (barely) and by then the eldar player should be in combat with something or have squished the predator

[Infinite Freedom]

statistically it should take mroe than 3 turns (barely) and by then the eldar player should be in combat with something or have squished the predator

Triple las is a thing of beauty.

[Firecrest]

If the wraithknight has a leadership value then the way I'd deal with it with my IG is psyker battle squad and a primaris psker with psychic shriek. That combo has worked wonders for me so far.

[Infinite Freedom]

If the wraithknight has a leadership value then the way I'd deal with it with my IG is psyker battle squad and a primaris psker with psychic shriek. That combo has worked wonders for me so far.

Okay, why didn't any of us think the psychic shriek route?

[Sainhann]

Okay, why didn't any of us think the psychic shriek route?

Maybe due to disagreeing on whether Snipers, and strength 6 weapons would do it, plus a few other things.

[G00dySmiley]

Triple las is a thing of beauty.

i did the math for las predator, again you are advocating a statistically improbable event.

tl lascannon and 2 non twin linked sponsons

2.3 hits (little less but again assuming the tl hits) wounds on 3's 1.53 wounds

assumign the eldar player isn't an idiot and has 5+ cover or the 5++ (only reason they should not always be in area terrain) 1.02 wounds per turn

so agains either you have great luck / weighted dice, but that is not somethign i would rely on

as for the psychic shriek

statisticall 3 d6 rolls an 11 so it is highly unlikely your opponent will roll a 16 and even then if they take the 5++ its going to ignore 2 of those. hoping for the opponent to roll an 18 on 3d6 is not a strategy it is a move of desperation

now shriek spam tyranids might do it, but ig psycher squad gets one collective power so... not going to do it even if the eldar player lets you get within 12 inches to cast it

really space marines should be doing it by scout snipers and anti tank fire but there is no one pill answer to always bring down the wraithknight a las pred sternguard and group of snipers x 5 are still not doing it reliable in one turn but should in two. and if it does draw that musch fire it is doing its job

[chicop76]

Ways to kill a wraithknight.

1. My favorite is to run psyker battle squad to lower to leadership of 2 and than have a calldius pop up with it's strength 8 weapon and instant kill the wraithknight.

2. If you can pull off 3 enfeebles and blast him with a strength 10 shot and instant kill kim. Only army which this is even realistically possible is tyranids which I have had gotten up to 5 enfeebles before. Zonathorpe fires a strength 10 shot.

3. Poison gaunts will kill him.

4. Swarmlord. Lol. Easily kill him. Just need one smash attack to hit.

5. Bloodthirster can kill it.

6. Trygon would be a good fight. I think re rolling to hit is a big factor.

7. Dreadknight smacking it with a strength 10 force weapon.

8. Greyknights smaking it with strength 8-10 force weapons.

9. 3 exorcist on average rolling can eventually kill it.

10. Orcs can turn it into a squig.

11. Lukas can kill it when he dies

12. Screamers with a +3 invulnerable can kill it.

13 Daemonettes can eat it.

14. Deathcult w/ hammerhand and rad grenades can kill it.

15. Plasma and Meltas eat it.

16. Lascannons can kill it, just takes awhile.

17. Dark eldar lance death.

18. Several Agonizers can rip it apart.

19. The Dark Angels terminators Knights in smite mode can seriously kill it.

20. Oh sniper rifles with guide and doom.

21. Tau sniper rifles with ethereal boost.

22. 30+ kroot sniper rifles.

23. Psycanon spam.

24. Jaws of warp wolf.

25. Grey knight libby psi flame attack.

26. Space Wolf missle spam

That's just off the top of my head.

[Demonus]

yep 2 rounds of 3 lascannon shots for akill is 6 hits, 6 wounds, and 0 saves. While possible, it is far from a guarantee with your shots missing 1/3 of the time, failing to wound 1/3 of the time, and being saved 1/3 of the time.

Used a WK for the first time in game the other day. Faired ok, wiping out 2 units of Wolf Guard, and Farseer Bomb's body guard. Failed to wound riptides on several direct hits with suncannon, and Farseer himself passed every damned inv save in cc. Was taken to half wounds by 1 volley of sniper drones. Did manage to shrug off 3 cyclone missles though.

[Caitsidhe]

I've found that, as in so many other cases, a Daemon Prince with a Black Mace tends to get the job done. I prefer to attrition the WK of at least two Wounds first, but I've managed to kill it fresh in. A lot of it has to do with the wording on the Black Mace too. Right now the RAW (and it may stay this way) indicate that for each unsaved wound the WK is gonig to make a Toughness test. It only fails on a six. Of course, if you make the thing roll 4-5 times, you have pretty damn good odds of it getting one. This gives you a secondary removal option.

[Infinite Freedom]

i did the math for las predator, again you are advocating a statistically improbable event.


so again either you have great luck / weighted dice, but that is not somethign i would rely on



Since I just bought the dice before the game, it was luck.

[G00dySmiley]

Since I just bought the dice before the game, it was luck.

luck happens :)

I once had group of space wolf troops hop out of a rhino in 5th edition and attack 10 gretchin, the marines player rolled spectacularly bad and killed zero gretchin (thats right the models without an armor save at all) killed half of them and they broke from combat running away with thier tails between their legs... however my answer to taking on close combat marines is not now bring more gretchin

I also once in the most spectacularly bad luck took a SAG big meks, 3 groups of 15 lootas and 2 groups of gretchin for troops, and a few bgi guns there was minimal terrain so i posted up in two small peices with tightly packed models because my opponent had no template weapons. I went first and rolled double 1's on both SAG, 6's on both for areas, gretching gone, big guns gone, lootas down to half or less all groups, all failed leaderships and ran off the table as the terrain was by my table edge... my opponentts strategy for dealing with SAG big meks is not going to be let them blow themselves up.

these are rare and statistically unlikely events but they do happen. given the choice between relying on luck and relying on statistics I will always bow to law of averages

[Infinite Freedom]

luck happens :)

I once had group of space wolf troops hop out of a rhino in 5th edition and attack 10 gretchin, the marines player rolled spectacularly bad and killed zero gretchin (thats right the models without an armor save at all) killed half of them and they broke from combat running away with thier tails between their legs... however my answer to taking on close combat marines is not now bring more gretchin

I also once in the most spectacularly bad luck took a SAG big meks, 3 groups of 15 lootas and 2 groups of gretchin for troops, and a few bgi guns there was minimal terrain so i posted up in two small peices with tightly packed models because my opponent had no template weapons. I went first and rolled double 1's on both SAG, 6's on both for areas, gretching gone, big guns gone, lootas down to half or less all groups, all failed leaderships and ran off the table as the terrain was by my table edge... my opponentts strategy for dealing with SAG big meks is not going to be let them blow themselves up.

these are rare and statistically unlikely events but they do happen. given the choice between relying on luck and relying on statistics I will always bow to law of averages

Plasma pistol to the rear armor of my Baneblade Chain Reactioned into an Apocalyptic explosion that removed a third of my army the last time I played an Apoc game.

[DarkLink]

Ways to kill a wraithknight.

1. My favorite is to run psyker battle squad to lower to leadership of 2 and than have a calldius pop up with it's strength 8 weapon and instant kill the wraithknight.

That requires you to take a Callidus. And for the Eldar player to let it get close enough to the Wraithknight to pull this off.



2. If you can pull off 3 enfeebles and blast him with a strength 10 shot and instant kill kim. Only army which this is even realistically possible is tyranids which I have had gotten up to 5 enfeebles before. Zonathorpe fires a strength 10 shot.

I question the general liabilities of this. It's possible, but the stars have to align to get it to work, and with a 36" range the Wraithknight can just run away from the Zoanthropes while still taking Str 10 AP 2 shots at stuff. Not what I'd call a hard counter.



3. Poison gaunts will kill him.

Yup. This'll do the job pretty well. 1/3 so far.



4. Swarmlord. Lol. Easily kill him. Just need one smash attack to hit.

How stupid would the Eldar player have to be to let the Swarmlord assault his Wraithknight under normal circumstances?



5. Bloodthirster can kill it.

Unlike the Swarmlord, at least the Bloodthirster's fast enough to catch the Wraithknight. Of course, Eldar are pretty good at forcing Grounding Checks, so the Bloodthirster might just get shot down and killed first. And two Str 10 guns certainly contributes to that. Don't compare units in a vacuum.



6. Trygon would be a good fight. I think re rolling to hit is a big factor.





7. Dreadknight smacking it with a strength 10 force weapon.

This can actually do it, except that Bladestorm kills Dreadknights dead.



8. Greyknights smaking it with strength 8-10 force weapons.

Why would you be stupid enough to get into assault with them? You're Jump Infantry, and you have a 36" range, and GKs are expensive enough that you can afford to just sit back and kill 1-2 a turn for most of the game and it will be well worth it.

Plus, not all GKs come with Daemonhammers. It's generally not worth it in a lot of GK units. Which means the Wraithknight can fly in and punch them without fear, generally at the Eldar player's leisure. Wraithknights are very good against Grey Knights.



9. 3 exorcist on average rolling can eventually kill it.

Eventually? That sounds really convincing. If you run the numbers, 3 Exorcists take more than two turns to do this on average dice. 405pts, spending multiple turns shooting at one thing, while the Wave Serpents and War Walkers and such are left completely untouched. Yeah. Makes the Wraithknight totally worthless. That last part was sarcasm, by the way.


10. Orcs can turn it into a squig.

WTF? Seriously? That's what you think the Ork's best answer to the Wraithknight is? Not Meganobz with Klaws or something, or Ghazgul with a 2++ and 7 Str 10 AP 2 attacks? Some random, obscure rule that no one actually ever uses that has a minuscule chance of actually working even if it is theoretically possible?



11. Lukas can kill it when he dies

Not very reliable. Besides, has anyone ever actually taken Lukas? Ever?



12. Screamers with a +3 invulnerable can kill it.

Nope. 6's to wound, and only one attack each. Not impressed.



13 Daemonettes can eat it.

Stupid, stupid Eldar player for not just shooting the Daemonettes to death first. Eldar in general slaughter light infantry.



14. Deathcult w/ hammerhand and rad grenades can kill it.

Nope, not very reliable. Still wounding on 6's.



15. Plasma and Meltas eat it.

Not really. I mean, they can wound it, but there are very few units that pack in enough shots to actually kill it quickly. Sternguard with combi-weapons, DA Black Knights, Fire Dragons, but really not that much else. Melta is too short range to be able to realistically engage the WK before it does damage, and Plasma can't do much better since you can only really just plink away and hope the wounds add up. So the only units that can quickly kill the Wraithknight to the point of hard-countering it are all much more expensive than a Wraithknight. The fact that 10 Sternguard in a Drop Pod can kill a Wraithknight is hardly unique to the Wraithknight, 10 Sternguard in a Drop Pod kill pretty much everything they shoot at.



16. Lascannons can kill it, just takes awhile.

Hmmm, 'X can kill it, it just takes a while' describes just about every unit in the game shooting/assaulting any other unit in the game.



17. Dark eldar lance death.

Mechdar hard-counter DE. Who cares.



18. Several Agonizers can rip it apart.

No. Sevaral Agonizers can put a few wounds on it. It takes a lot of Agonizer attacks to actually kill it. It would take one Wych with, what, 3 attacks, literally all game to try and kill it, and the game would have to last until Turn 8.



19. The Dark Angels terminators Knights in smite mode can seriously kill it.

What sort of moronic Eldar player would let the Wraithknight get assaulted by them? It's Jump Infantry. It literally flies circles around footslogging units.



20. Oh sniper rifles with guide and doom.

Slightly better than just sniper rifles, but still not that impressive. Why do people see that sniper rifle can wound the Wraithknight, then assume that means they're super-awesome against it and that taking even a handful of them automatically makes the WK useless?



21. Tau sniper rifles with ethereal boost.

They can put some wounds on it. It takes them a long time to kill it, though.



22. 30+ kroot sniper rifles.

40+. But, yes, Tau are the only army in the game which can reasonably spam enough Sniper to actually seriously threaten to actually kill a WK. 2/22 so far.



23. Psycanon spam.

You don't play Grey Knights, do you? No. Psycannon spam is not good against the Wraithknight. They can kill it, yes. It requires the GK player to dedicate a massive amount of firepower to doing so, which means you're ignoring the rest of the Eldar army, in which case the Wraithknight is doing its job. And thanks to the 36" range, you're doing this at the Eldar player's leisure. He can just hop back out of range of most of your units when he wants to keep the Wraithknight alive.



24. Jaws of warp wolf.

I5. Good luck with that.



25. Grey knight libby psi flame attack.

I5. Except you also have to get super-close, which means you're probably only ever going to be able to pull this off if the Eldar player is either extremely stupid, or you're already beating them so badly that the Eldar player is desperate enough to risk exposing the Wraithknight.



26. Space Wolf missle spam

3 for 26.



That's just off the top of my head.

You've listed a bunch of random things that theoretically can kill it. That is a far cry from most of those thing actually being particularly good at killing it. Of the 26 items, only a handful are actual solid counters, and of those handful all are things that a good Eldar player could reasonably find a way to counter with a well balanced list. The vast majority either fall under the flaw of list tailoring, the mistaken presumption that just because something can theoretically kill something that automatically makes it super-awesome-amazing against that something, or a heavy reliance on the incompetence of the Eldar player.

[Wolfshade]

I think what this thread is actually showing is that if you take a big shiney people will spend an entire game/army trying to deal with it leaving your other troops to actually win you the game.

This wraithknight captures the viewer's attention and distra... ooo, pretty...

[chicop76]

@ Darklink. The Calladius is placed on the board. I don't think it's hard for the Calladius to follow up on it's shooting attack. #1 is a bit harder to pull off thanks to deny the witch, but I pull it off a lot. Only thing that screws it is deny the witch, failing psychic test or rolling 1s to wound. Not to say the Calldius usually dies.

#15 Guard can dish out a ton of plasma and melta shots. Thanks to vendettas and chimeras they can get in range. With bring it down they can kill it. Speaking from experance with Nightbringer, even though he doesn't have 12" movement, but a +4 invulnerable save.

#13 if 20 daemonettes can get across the table with an entire guard army shooting them than I think it's plausible. Even though they had +3 invulnerable save, fire shield, invisibility, and endurance on them. I only lost 6, go +2 cover saves.

#14 has worked on wraithlord several times. That being said I failed to mention crusaders as well.

Ok Nob bikers with power claws.

# 12 works if in a group like 9. The issue here is the screamers can dish out more wounds than the wraithknight can, especailly sitting on a re rollable +2 invulnerable save or a 3+ with re rolls on a 1. Through in invisibility and it's over.


With greyknights you can take 4 psycannons on purifiers and on your heavy support. That's 16 shots per squad that can hurt the wraithknight. It may take 6-7 squads to hurt it, but they can. It might be your entire army.

[eris]

I think what this thread is actually showing is that if you take a big shiney people will spend an entire game/army trying to deal with it

And usually with units that are quite bad at doing so! That only makes the wraithknight stronger imo.

[DarkLink]

I think what this thread is actually showing is that if you take a big shiney people will spend an entire game/army trying to deal with it leaving your other troops to actually win you the game.

Pretty much. I just played a game against Reecius yesterday, and I never even had an opportunity to shoot his WK. I had pretty terrible luck, though, I was failing saves like nothing else. But he's played a WK in every game since he got the model, and he's never had it die once. And they play at a very high level competitively in general, so it's certainly not for a lack of quality opponents that his WK performs.


@ Darklink. The Calladius is placed on the board. I don't think it's hard for the Calladius to follow up on it's shooting attack. #1 is a bit harder to pull off thanks to deny the witch, but I pull it off a lot. Only thing that screws it is deny the witch, failing psychic test or rolling 1s to wound. Not to say the Calldius usually dies.

But you still have to take the Callidus. And since all the assassins suck, you're either talking about a joke army that isn't really that competitive in the grand scheme of things, in which case you're missing the forest for the trees, or you're tailoring your list, in which case you're basically cheating.



#15 Guard can dish out a ton of plasma and melta shots. Thanks to vendettas and chimeras they can get in range. With bring it down they can kill it. Speaking from experance with Nightbringer, even though he doesn't have 12" movement, but a +4 invulnerable save.

Vendettas are stupidly underpriced and overpowered anyways. They're outstanding at killing anything in the game while being neigh untouchable in return. I don't know why you don't see more of them competitively (though I'm glad you don't). But if the Guard player drops off the fifty Vets it takes to reliably plasma the WK, that's a golden opportunity for the Eldar player to kill the Guard player's troops. I would absolutely bait my opponent into killing my WK for that.



#13 if 20 daemonettes can get across the table with an entire guard army shooting them than I think it's plausible. Even though they had +3 invulnerable save, fire shield, invisibility, and endurance on them. I only lost 6, go +2 cover saves.

If you use half your army to buff the crap out of something, sure. Of course, the Wraithknight is still faster than Daemonettes, so I don't know why this in particular would work. I would just avoid them for now and focus fire on the units you didn't give the 3++, because you can only give it out to so many units.



#14 has worked on wraithlord several times. That being said I failed to mention crusaders as well.

Wraithknights are much tougher than Wraithlords. Crusaders have a much weaker offensive output than DCA, I don't know why you think they would make it easier to kill the WK. A full squad of 12 DCA will only do 5.33 wounds on average dice on the charge. That's far from a guaranteed kill. Crusaders only take wounds off of that number. But the real problem is, how do you actually get into assault? Rhinos and Chimera are out, you can't assault out of them so you're going to get shot up and the WK can just move out of the way. You'd just be throwing away points. Land Raiders are prime targets for the WK to kill, so that's pretty much out. Storm Ravens would work, but you'd have to drop into hover mode and let the Eldar player kill your Flyer, so I doubt it would be worth it.



Ok Nob bikers with power claws.

Yes. Though they'll be ID'd by the Wraithknight's shooting and assault attacks, so the WK will probably kill enough to make its points back, and you're using a, what, 700pt unit to kill the Wraithknight? They can certainly do it, but again, I would totally bait you with my WK to keep your Bikerz away from my squishier stuff.



# 12 works if in a group like 9. The issue here is the screamers can dish out more wounds than the wraithknight can, especailly sitting on a re rollable +2 invulnerable save or a 3+ with re rolls on a 1. Through in invisibility and it's over.

Rerollable 2++ doesn't help the fact that they get one attack each, and only wound on 6's. It takes 72 Screamers on average dice to kill the Wraithknight.



With greyknights you can take 4 psycannons on purifiers and on your heavy support. That's 16 shots per squad that can hurt the wraithknight. It may take 6-7 squads to hurt it, but they can. It might be your entire army.

Bolded for emphasis. And, again, since you ignored it, Psycannons have a 30" threat range (and with Purifiers, that decreases the damage output as well). The Wraithknight has 36" guns. You do the math.

Also, I play Grey Knights. I have since they were Daemonhunters back when 5th ed came out. I know how this works.

[Eric French]

I like the direction that chicop76 (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/member.php?10377-chicop76) and DarkLink (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/member.php?2254-DarkLink) are going with this topic, how about we try to make a compendium of the best way for a particular ARMY to dispense with the WK by using it's particular UNITS that have the best chances/weapons/Special Rules to do so. Just this morning a friend of mine, playing for 1 month or so now, said his Tau got decimated by our other friend's (just almost as new) WK and I had no advise for him, so far I guess 40+ Kroot is the best TAU option? Some one start compiling and maybe the OP can edit his first post to include the information!
My first thought being a Chaos x 2 player was Any Monstrous creature with Instant Death or Abaddon or at least a ton of Cultists to attempt to pit it. But to meta specifically for it only works if you play against the WK every game or if you know that when it's Eldar, it's going to have at least 1 WK.

[chicop76]

Vindicare assassin doesn't suck. How you think I one shot those 13 armour barges. He usually doesn't live long since the entire army is shooting at the poor guy.

I play the calladius when I take a psyker battle squad. I don't run grey knight and ig as a competive list though. I do run it as a low tier list. If you beat it you can than fight my sisters, than tyranids, than tau, than daemons, etc. It still causes rage quitting when you kill a swarmlord and 3 hive guard. +4 deny the witch can still be failed.

I threw in crusaders due to hits back.

I forgot screamers no longer have melta bombs. Haven't used them since 5th.

Depends on the melta/ plasma gunners. I like to use the cheap platoon squad ones over the veteran squad for suicide missions. That's what special teams are good for. 60 points for 3 melta guns with bring it down is not a costly unit. That leadership 7 makes me sad though.

[DarkLink]

I like the direction that chicop76 (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/member.php?10377-chicop76) and DarkLink (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/member.php?2254-DarkLink) are going with this topic, how about we try to make a compendium of the best way for a particular ARMY to dispense with the WK by using it's particular UNITS that have the best chances/weapons/Special Rules to do so.

As long as you avoid a couple of things. First, just because something is theoretically capable of killing something doesn't mean it's actually good at killing whatever it is. Second, don't list tailor. There's a difference between "I'm going to try and fit in a few more lascannons so I can face the WK" and "I'll take X, Y, and Z units that no one ever takes under normal circumstances because they happen to be really good against the WK and the WK only". And third, realize that you're not facing the WK in a vacuum. DE Venom spam kills Wraithknight pretty easily, but Mechdar hard-counters DE Venom spam, so that's not necessarily a good route to take if you're facing Eldar.

[chicop76]

As long as you avoid a couple of things. First, just because something is theoretically capable of killing something doesn't mean it's actually good at killing whatever it is. Second, don't list tailor. There's a difference between "I'm going to try and fit in a few more lascannons so I can face the WK" and "I'll take X, Y, and Z units that no one ever takes under normal circumstances because they happen to be really good against the WK and the WK only". And third, realize that you're not facing the WK in a vacuum. DE Venom spam kills Wraithknight pretty easily, but Mechdar hard-counters DE Venom spam, so that's not necessarily a good route to take if you're facing Eldar.


That's why I said Daemonettes instead of Seekers of Slaanesh. Seekers can catch him with 12" movement and 7"-12" run. Especally if you give them move through cover loci.

Honestly I super buff my nettes or my hounds since they multi assault anyways. Hard to avoid them since they are easily assaulting in turn 2. If you try to fly over my nettes can rend the vehicles to death. While the hounds can eat what's inside.

Anyway depending on what you bring to the table depends on how you can deal with it. The way I dealth with nightbringer was 9 broadsides and taking 6 seeker missile. That downed him in turn one. The rest of my army was left shooting necrons.

30 bs 5 kroot is enogh to kill a wraithknight with sniper rifles.

However some armies may want to tarpit the knight while you deal with the rest of the eldar army. I personally used to dealing with iron arm nids and already build with that in mind plus dealing with 13 armour skimmers and 2 wound terminators. Everything else is secondary after that.

If I can kill a t9 swarmlord with hive guard with my Tau I am confident I can kill a wraithlord. The dumb swarmlord also had endurance on him. Not to mention I was still able to shoot at differant targets.

Keep in mind at the time I ran two skyrays which marker light death did the job rather nicely. 12 seekers is a lot to dump on one target. Ironically it's enough to kill a knight as well.

With deamons it's not an issue due to smash attacks which is the same for nids.

Ig can dish out plasma and melta like. No tommorrow.

Greyknights just need one force weapon hit same with blood angels, good reason to run a libby furioso or Mephiston.

I guess that scarabs would be good to use against a knight to eat away his saves. However a destroyer lord with a +3 invulnerable could tie up a knight and possibly kill it. Although the same can be said for the knight. I think a C'Tan shard can deal with the knight rather nicely though.

[G00dySmiley]

oh btw forgot to mention this earlier on the long list of strategies in case an ork player want sto try it... zogworat's curse is against independent characters only, wraithkight unlike the wraithlord is not even a character, I once almost succeeded in squiging swarmlord until we looked up that swarmlord is not an IC and so he unsquiged ... yes i liek running zogwort he's fun , don't look at me like that

[chicop76]

oh btw forgot to mention this earlier on the long list of strategies in case an ork player want sto try it... zogworat's curse is against independent characters only, wraithkight unlike the wraithlord is not even a character, I once almost succeeded in squiging swarmlord until we looked up that swarmlord is not an IC and so he unsquiged ... yes i liek running zogwort he's fun , don't look at me like that

Good job. I was joking when I said that.