Assault Question Muliwounds?

[chicop76]

I am a little confused about this. I am cool until you start throwing in multi-wound models. I am pretty sure I am doing everything right, but doesn't hurt to ask right.

I will use unit x and Ogryns which have 3 wounds for this example.

Steps
1. Declare assault
2. Overwatch
3. 2d6 assault move
4. Hammer of wrath, or similar
5. Move 3 inches in initiative order
6. Strike at intiative and remove wounds
7. Figure out winner
8. Consolidate 3" again, or d6 sweeping advance

It's more to it, but this is it in a nut shell.

When you have 5 ogryn in base and all 5 is the closet it seems you can just pick. In the shooting it is random for tied models, so is it random or defender picks.

Ok let's say Ogryn A takes 2 wounds and another round starts again. Ogryn A takes two wounds doing x units turn and now it's the Ogyrn Players turn and another round of combat starts again. Once you get to step 6 what do you do?

A. If you take for example one wound, does Ogryn A take it and dies.
B. A random unit takes the one wound for this turn.
C. Defender selects Ogryn B to take the wound to keep Ogryn A alive.

I underatand if in one turn you can't put one wound on Ogryn A, B, and C. You have to put all wounds on one model and work to the next closest. My issue is when you go to the next turn. Is the 2 wound model still the closest or you get to determine which model is again, or is it random.

Another issue is IC's and look out sirs. You probably have 3 models in base contact with him. Let's say I have my Ogryn character who use look out sir and put two wounds on on guy and he takes one due to failed look out sir. Another round comes around again and I dish out 3 more wounds. If you look out siragain does the two wound model takes the wound or a fresh model can which it takes two and the Ogryn character takes one again.

One final question
If 3 units run away. Do you roll Initiative test for all 3 and catch the ones you tie or beat. Do you only catch one while the other two get away. I understand if one stays you can't catch the other two.

Oh one more

If you are in multiple combat. Let's say Nob Bikers assault a Tzeentch Daemon Prince. Than storm boys assault a squad of daemonettes and the prince. The prince dies andthe bikes are no longer in base contact with another model and moving within 3" they still can't be in contact. Can they now break away from combat

[DarkLink]

When you have 5 ogryn in base and all 5 is the closet it seems you can just pick. In the shooting it is random for tied models, so is it random or defender picks.

If you read the rules for wound allocation in close combat, it says this:


If there are no enemy models in base contact with a model
attacking at that Initiative step, the Wound is allocated to
the next closest enemy model. If several enemy models
are the same distance away then their controlling player
chooses which is allocated the Wound, as above




Ok let's say Ogryn A takes 2 wounds and another round starts again. Ogryn A takes two wounds doing x units turn and now it's the Ogyrn Players turn and another round of combat starts again. Once you get to step 6 what do you do?

A. If you take for example one wound, does Ogryn A take it and dies.
B. A random unit takes the one wound for this turn.
C. Defender selects Ogryn B to take the wound to keep Ogryn A alive.

I underatand if in one turn you can't put one wound on Ogryn A, B, and C. You have to put all wounds on one model and work to the next closest. My issue is when you go to the next turn. Is the 2 wound model still the closest or you get to determine which model is again, or is it random.

I don't see anywhere where it requires you to keep allocating to that wounded model next turn. It specifically says, paraphrased, 'keep allocating to that model until it dies or the Wound Pool is emptied'. Once you empty your wound pool, you can choose to allocate to a different model. If this is the case, then not only can you do this, but you can do this at each Initiative Step as well.



Another issue is IC's and look out sirs. You probably have 3 models in base contact with him. Let's say I have my Ogryn character who use look out sir and put two wounds on on guy and he takes one due to failed look out sir. Another round comes around again and I dish out 3 more wounds. If you look out siragain does the two wound model takes the wound or a fresh model can which it takes two and the Ogryn character takes one again.

Look Out Sir is always allocated to the model closest to the IC. This is in the FAQ. Of course, RAW for LOS is stupidly complex, and the FAQs have only made it worse, so I could be wrong, but I don't think so in this case.



One final question
If 3 units run away. Do you roll Initiative test for all 3 and catch the ones you tie or beat. Do you only catch one while the other two get away. I understand if one stays you can't catch the other two.

Each unit rolls once. If the winning unit gets equal to or better than the roll of any and/or all losers, the losers die. If you only have one unit, you only roll once, but you can catch and kill multiple units with that one roll.



If you are in multiple combat. Let's say Nob Bikers assault a Tzeentch Daemon Prince. Than storm boys assault a squad of daemonettes and the prince. The prince dies andthe bikes are no longer in base contact with another model and moving within 3" they still can't be in contact. Can they now break away from combat

If, after Pile In is compelted, you're not in base contact with an enemy unit, your unit falls out of the assault and you can Consolidate.

[Magpie]

The allocation of wounds SHOULD be pretty straight forward most of the time.

Wounds from a particular Initiative Step have to be allocated to a model in base contact with a model attacking at that initiative step, or if not in base contact then closest to. So that will mean that it can change as to who is the closest.

Page 28 covers multiple sweeping advances, one roll for the victor but each fleeing unit makes their own roll.

The combat with the Storm Boys ends (and they consolidate) so long as the Deamonettes can't get into base contact either. Both the boy and the girls make a 3" consolidation move.

[chicop76]

The Ic allocating before saves is in the FAQ.

I always thought it was three rolls to pursue each unit. Not one roll. Must had missed that. Learn something new.

That's what I thought and now doing to my hounds. Good point about the inititiave step. Never thought about it in each step. This of course answers the IC one.


That means if I have a Draigo iand a bunch of paladins for example. I can declare Draigo the closest and take and insant killing wounds on him 2 at a time till he is down to his last wound. I can than look out sir letting the closest model to Draigo take the hit, if 3 are closer I will be able to choose and any further look out sir wounds at that initiative step will have to drain into him.

This allows me to allocate wounds more each inititiave step. That way once I get to power fist etc. I can have them go to my models with one wound on them.

Why people assume I didn't read the book just cause I am asking questions. Next time I will quote with page numbers. I tought that's how it worked, but I didn't know about one roll to catch and didn't think each initiative step.

[chicop76]

The allocation of wounds SHOULD be pretty straight forward most of the time.

Wounds from a particular Initiative Step have to be allocated to a model in base contact with a model attacking at that initiative step, or if not in base contact then closest to. So that will mean that it can change as to who is the closest.

Page 28 covers multiple sweeping advances, one roll for the victor but each fleeing unit makes their own roll.

The combat with the Storm Boys ends (and they consolidate) so long as the Deamonettes can't get into base contact either. Both the boy and the girls make a 3" consolidation move.

Storm Boys and Daemonettes still in base. I meant Nob Bikes move 3" and Daemonettes move 3" and can't connect.

[DarkLink]

I think the wound allocation trick works in the shooting phase, too. Place Draigo closest, with ~3 models in base contact behind him. He takes the ID wounds, then pass off the small arms fire to the Paladins with LOS. Trade off which Paladin you LOS to for each different unit that shoots at the Paladins.

[Magpie]

The only problem with that tho' is that a smart opponent will make you take the non-ID wounds first and as you don't know which ones are going to fail their armour save you will have trouble working out which ones to hand off.

[chicop76]

I think the wound allocation trick works in the shooting phase, too. Place Draigo closest, with ~3 models in base contact behind him. He takes the ID wounds, then pass off the small arms fire to the Paladins with LOS. Trade off which Paladin you LOS to for each different unit that shoots at the Paladins.

I Do that now. The problem with it all 3 models have to be the same distance away for it to work. I do it with my hive tyrant with the +2 save up front.

If they fire the non instant death first that you just look out sir till the instant death shots come around.

I am thinking that 3 carnef in a squad is more viable now. I meant to say carnifex. Give them endurance and put a prime with them the unit will be really hard to handle.

[Magpie]

Still a bit risky, if you fail your LoS and Armour and end up taking some wounds before the ID ones come around you are in the position where you'll be ID'ing some of your troops !

[chicop76]

Still a bit risky, if you fail your LoS and Armour and end up taking some wounds before the ID ones come around you are in the position where you'll be ID'ing some of your troops !

Draigo have a +3 invulnerable and a lot of wounds. Look out sir is on a 2+ for him and he has a 2+ save. If I put 30 regular wounds on him he can look out sir and still pass 5 wounds. Yeah I can really see him dying before the instant death weapons come around.

[Magpie]

Yep but it is far from a sure thing.

Depends on how many ID wounds you have to distribute too.

[chicop76]

Yep but it is far from a sure thing.

Depends on how many ID wounds you have to distribute too.

The issue here is this. The instant death Draigo tanks it. He doesn't have to look out sir those wounds. Keep in mind only one unit at a time can fire upon said unit. Not to many units have a ton of static fire with a ton of instant death weapons at range.

You need over 100 wounds on average to kill Draigo with him using look out sir to throw off wounds on a +2 save.

For him to die before instant death weapons you will have to roll 8 ones in a row. 4 ones for failed los and 4 ones for failed saves. Yes it can heppen, but how often does that happen.

[Magpie]

Yep you can balance the probabilities but you are a long way from wound allocation but don't forget that for each LoS he throws off that means that potentially the number of wounds on his squad mates is dwindling as well. of those 100 wounds 16 of those will kill somebody, if Draigo takes 5 of them, that means your squad of 10 is now a squad of about 3.

If you get through the regular wounds but only have 2 or 3 wounds left on Draigo then you're in quite a dilemma if you've got a fair amount of ID's to get through, granted they will usually be few but they will also most likely be going up against the invul too so you odds are dropping a bit.

[chicop76]

Yep you can balance the probabilities but you are a long way from wound allocation but don't forget that for each LoS he throws off that means that potentially the number of wounds on his squad mates is dwindling as well. of those 100 wounds 16 of those will kill somebody, if Draigo takes 5 of them, that means your squad of 10 is now a squad of about 3.

If you get through the regular wounds but only have 2 or 3 wounds left on Draigo then you're in quite a dilemma if you've got a fair amount of ID's to get through, granted they will usually be few but they will also most likely be going up against the invul too so you odds are dropping a bit.

They have 2 wounds each not one and also fnp.

1. What unit do you know that can dish out 100 wounds, especially in a single attack.
2. It takes 12 wounds on average to kill a paladin. 18 wounds if the unit has fnp, which it probably will. 100/18 is rougly 5.5 which is 5 dead paladins. If draigo takes 3 wounds than you only lost around 3 paladins.

Than if you are allocating like we said I would doubt any paladins would die if Draigo decides to take the blunt of the attack when one plaladin finally takes a wound.

The more I think about it the more annoying it seems.

[Magpie]

Yes Draigo et al are hard to kill not disputing that what I am trying to say is that :

"I think the wound allocation trick works in the shooting phase, too. Place Draigo closest, with ~3 models in base contact behind him. He takes the ID wounds, then pass off the small arms fire to the Paladins with LOS. Trade off which Paladin you LOS to for each different unit that shoots at the Paladins."

Isn't really going to happen and it isn't as simple as it sounds.

[chicop76]

Yes Draigo et al are hard to kill not disputing that what I am trying to say is that :

"I think the wound allocation trick works in the shooting phase, too. Place Draigo closest, with ~3 models in base contact behind him. He takes the ID wounds, then pass off the small arms fire to the Paladins with LOS. Trade off which Paladin you LOS to for each different unit that shoots at the Paladins."

Isn't really going to happen and it isn't as simple as it sounds.

It can happen, just not that simple. To rotate like that you need to have them exactly the same distance or the model that is the closest will have to take the wounds.

I am away from my books, but the closetest in shooting is random and you can't just pick it. I am not sure when applying look out sir to the mix.

The best way to ensure it works is to put them b2b, which is a bad ideal. However it's effective with my hounds since I just rotate out my wounded models.

This thread has brought to mind how important getting it will not die is.

[DarkLink]

Still a bit risky, if you fail your LoS and Armour and end up taking some wounds before the ID ones come around you are in the position where you'll be ID'ing some of your troops !

I do it literally every single game. I've been playing Draigowing a lot lately (though this particular allocation trick is new to me). It is that simple. And if your opponent doesn't have any blast weapons, then there's no reason to be concerned about clumping up.