Best assault unit

[DarkLink]

Just for fun, I'd like to see some arguments for the best assault unit in the game is. Must be one unit, may include attached IC's (but those IC's have to fit in the FOC), and no points limit. Who wins?

My vote is Paladins. Draigo, a Librarian, 10 fully equipped Paladins, and a Techmarine is downright stupid in assault (for a lot of points).

Draigo 275

Librarian, ML3, Warding Stave, Empyrium Brain Mines 245

Techmarine, Rad/Psykotroke/Blind grenades, Empyrium Brain Mines, Warding Stave 155

10 Paladins, Banner, Stave, 4 Psycannons, Apothecary, 4 Hammers, 4 Swords 750

Total: 13 models, 1425

The Paladins auto-pass their force weapon check if needed (and you don't get to Deny the Witch against Force Weapons), you have access to 4 Hammerhands, Librarian gives them reroll to hit (Prescience) and good odds of 4++ invulnerable saves (which the swords boost to a 3++) and full BS on Overwatch, there are three dudes with 2++ saves to tank wounds, not counting Draigo. Enemies are automatically -1T, get hit with a random result which is pretty much always really bad, and the squad is Fearless. And Draigo can give them Counter Attack or Reroll 1's to Wound with The Grand Strategy. Plus, two models have to pass an Initiative test or not attack, thanks to the Empyrium Brain Mines.

I've seen this unit do stupid things (or at least a similar unit, I've never run a Techmarine). I had a game at 2500pts where I had Draigo, an Inquisitor with grenades, and 10 Paladins get assaulted by literally an entire CSM army. ~20 Plague Marines, ~30 Berzerkers, and a few other miscellaneous models (there might have been some Obliterators in there, too). My Paladins killed about 60 MEQ in one round of assault, and they didn't even get the charge. I didn't take a single wound, and I didn't even run Apothecaries back then.

Any other contenders?

[rle68]

Njal and 10 wolf guard W/ TH SS.. might give you some issues.. anything you have to cast he can cancel on 3+

Wolf tooth necklaces hits on 3+ regardless...

oh and just to be fair... Bjorn the fell handed and arjac.. lol

[chicop76]

20 Seekers:
1 icon that lowers ws by d3
Alluress: greater weapon: 5 attacks ap 2 strength 4 due to greater etherblade
Herald of Slaanech: steed, grim of true names, Master 2
Herald of Slaanech: loci of beguilment, greater etherblade, lesser etherblade, Master 2
Herald of Slaanech: exhaulted, Master 2
Herald of Slaanech: loci of beguilment, exhaulted, master 2

With 8 rolls on psychic powers you are going invisibility( +4 cover save and gives ws 1 to others in combat), halluncinate( stop attacks or causses units to attack itself and activate force weapons), deny overwatch and -5 intitiave power, terrify( can overrun fearless units)

Besides the unit having +3 invulnerable saves, it has a lot of combat control. Can easy lower I, and WS with differant abilities. Let"s no mention 80 re rolling on hits with rending. The greater Etherbladed Heralds can dish out 7 attacks on the charge at strength 5 ap 2.

Or

20 hounds w/ 4 heralds on juggernoughts. That is atleast strength 60 strength 5 attacks or 80 strength 5 attacks, or 60 strength 5 attacks re rolling to hit.

Not to mention the heralds can dish out strength 7 ap 2 hits on the charge. They can have +3 invulnerable saves as well.

I want to not the daemonette one can pick out challenges they can challenge whatever character they want.

[DarkLink]

Njal and 10 wolf guard W/ TH SS.. might give you some issues.. anything you have to cast he can cancel on 3+

Wolf tooth necklaces hits on 3+ regardless...

oh and just to be fair... Bjorn the fell handed and arjac.. lol

Even with the 3++ and no psychic powers, you still kill like 5 Wolf Guard before they hit, and another 3 when the hammer Paladins go. The Wolf Guard do 6-7 wounds before saves, but with 2++ or 3++ on plenty of guys they're not winning that combat. And who knows what the Rad grenades will do, or if the Paladins do get any psychic powers off.


20 Seekers:
Or

20 hounds w/ 4 heralds on juggernoughts.

If you're facing them off against Grey Knights, you can't rely on hallucinate or any of the other offensive psychic powers, you're at -1 ld for the Aegis and the GKs get a 4+ Deny the Witch thanks to the Librarian's ML 3.

80 attacks, presumably hitting on 3's with rerolls, are still only 12 regular armor and 12 rends. The regular armor saves only do 1.3 wounds, and the rends the same starting on one of the Warding Staves. Etherblades kill another Paladin.

The GKs are still probably hitting on 4's, and don't even have to cast psychic powers to wound on 2's. And they get reroll 1's to wound for free thanks to Preferred Enemy, so Draigo would give them Counter Attack. So you kill one Paladin (or Draigo take the hits and lives), then take abut 50 hits back, hitting on 4's with rerolls, wounding on 2's with rerolls. Even with 3++, that's 12 dead Seekers. You killed 2 Paladins. And if you allocate any wounds to your characters, the Paladins ID them with Force Weapons. And I'm ignoring the effects of Rad Grenades, or the 1/3 chance of failing your +2 to you invulnerable save, or any psychic powers other than reroll to hit. Next round, a lot of your buffs go away, though you do have a chance to go for your psychic powers again. Still, I don't see you winning that fight.

Khorne Daemons suffer from a lack of rending and debuffs. They're stuck fighting the Paladins at their full strength, which won't turn out well, especially since Daemons don't have Eternal Warrior anymore so the Hounds don't get their 2 wounds.

Challenges aren't too big of a deal. All my characters have 2++ or 3++ and have good offensive ability, and I can afford to lose one of them really.

[Wolfshade]

I think if these would fall to blob units.

30-man Death Company, all of them can replace their weapons for power weapons, so as we are going for overkill lets give them all thunder hammers and jump packs for manouerability + Lemartes 2100 points. 120 S 9 attacks re-rolling to hit and to wound. 1 unit no HQ or ICs joined to it. Swap out the TH for Power weapons to save 450pts and not striking last.

But you could add say Astrorath & Reculsiarch (hell just put a libby in there for Phsyic defense). That wouldn't be out of context. May a collection of priests there as well.
or

30-man Nobz unit with Warboss boss pole eavy armour, random collection of power claws, uge choppas, + Painboy, cybork upgrades all round

[brian1348]

I think if these would fall to blob units.

30-man Death Company, all of them can replace their weapons for power weapons, so as we are going for overkill lets give them all thunder hammers and jump packs for manouerability + Lemartes 2100 points. 120 S 9 attacks re-rolling to hit and to wound. 1 unit no HQ or ICs joined to it. Swap out the TH for Power weapons to save 450pts and not striking last.

But you could add say Astrorath & Reculsiarch (hell just put a libby in there for Phsyic defense). That wouldn't be out of context. May a collection of priests there as well.
or

30-man Nobz unit with Warboss boss pole eavy armour, random collection of power claws, uge choppas, + Painboy, cybork upgrades all round


although probably a pain to actually roll out, that fight would be EPIC. I would pay money to see it go down

(nobz vs. D.C.)

[Thiazi]

although probably a pain to actually roll out, that fight would be EPIC. I would pay money to see it go down

(nobz vs. D.C.)

Done in in apoc during 5th, and rage got better for 6th. It all comes down to the who gets the charge. DC with chains swords and bolt pistols are 150 atts at ws 5 and i think str 5 on the charge with a chaplin they reroll hits and wounds.

We had an apoc player that regularly brought multiple green tides to games, so i brought a stormlord loaded with DC w/ power weapons to remove them and speed the game up. The look on his face when he realized what was happening was priceless.

[isotope99]

For a true points cost no object douchebag convention, the maximum number of necron lords & overlords, all with tesseract labyrinths, mindshackle scarabs, warscythes, res orbs, phase shifters, tachyon arrows and anything else they can get their greedy metal hands on.

Most of your models are now stuck in another dimension or hitting each other in the face.

[Wolfshade]

The best thing about taking a 30 man DC unit is then you can take 6 DC dreads :)

[Thiazi]

For a true points cost no object douchebag convention, the maximum number of necron lords & overlords, all with tesseract labyrinths, mindshackle scarabs, warscythes, res orbs, phase shifters, tachyon arrows and anything else they can get their greedy metal hands on.

Most of your models are now stuck in another dimension or hitting each other in the face.

this is still only 7 models and loses to the 31 man DC w/ chaplin. 5 of your models are 1 wound, DC hits first landing probably 100 hits probably 70 of those turn into wounds you fail 11-12 of those. sure a few DC get caught up in your tricks but not enough. they then spread out so even if you make your RP you cant place the models with in 3 inches.

If you gave the DC power axes instead of swords then it gets even worst.

[chicop76]

I think if these would fall to blob units.

30-man Death Company, all of them can replace their weapons for power weapons, so as we are going for overkill lets give them all thunder hammers and jump packs for manouerability + Lemartes 2100 points. 120 S 9 attacks re-rolling to hit and to wound. 1 unit no HQ or ICs joined to it. Swap out the TH for Power weapons to save 450pts and not striking last.

But you could add say Astrorath & Reculsiarch (hell just put a libby in there for Phsyic defense). That wouldn't be out of context. May a collection of priests there as well.
or

30-man Nobz unit with Warboss boss pole eavy armour, random collection of power claws, uge choppas, + Painboy, cybork upgrades all round


30 Death Company, + 9 Priest, + 2 IC which would fall under Link's guidelines.

[Wolfshade]

30 Death Company, + 9 Priest, + 2 IC which would fall under Link's guidelines.

One of those could be corbulo don't forget lemartes squad upgrade not a HQ or Elite choice :)

[chicop76]

Saint Celestine
Jacobs
50 man guard squad. 5 power axes
5 commissar's 5 power axes
5 priest 5 eviserators
I think guard allows me 3 more priest with 3 eviserators

That's 50 power axe attacks on the charge, 32 eviserator attacks on the charge, and 150 guardsman swing on the charge
+ Jacobs, + Celestine with on extra attack.

Oh also add in commissar yorrick since I can add my 1 hq from the guard. Have to find my guard codex to see if techpriest are IC's if so and max tech priest as well.

Due to jacobs everyone get's an extra attack and feel no pain. Sister's is the primary with Guard allies. Nothing can beat that lol. Also keep in mind Celestine can tank for the unit.

[david5th]

30 Ard Boyz with CC + slugga with Cybork bodies led by Mad Doc.

[chicop76]

Saint Celestine
Jacobs
50 man guard squad. 5 power axes
5 commissar's 5 power axes
5 priest 5 eviserators
I think guard allows me 3 more priest with 3 eviserators

That's 50 power axe attacks on the charge, 32 eviserator attacks on the charge, and 150 guardsman swing on the charge
+ Jacobs, + Celestine with on extra attack.

Oh also add in commissar yorrick since I can add my 1 hq from the guard. Have to find my guard codex to see if techpriest are IC's if so and max tech priest as well.

Due to jacobs everyone get's an extra attack and feel no pain. Sister's is the primary with Guard allies. Nothing can beat that lol. Also keep in mind Celestine can tank for the unit.


Just went on army builder, I need to find my guard codex. It seems I can take 5 IC priest from guard and a priest in each squad. Which means 15 priest in total counting the 5 from the sister's primary

2170 points:
Saint Celestine
Jacobs
Yorrick
15 Priest: 15 Eviserators
45 Guardsmen
5 Sargents: 5 power axes
5 Commissars: 5 power axes

My bad the total is 1920 points I was counting the 2 battle sister squads. That's 72 models of kick butt. The unit has enough power weapons and eviserators to kill any 40 k squad that dares to engage it. With 28 IC's you can challenge the way you see fit.

[rle68]

Even with the 3++ and no psychic powers, you still kill like 5 Wolf Guard before they hit, and another 3 when the hammer Paladins go. The Wolf Guard do 6-7 wounds before saves, but with 2++ or 3++ on plenty of guys they're not winning that combat. And who knows what the Rad grenades will do, or if the Paladins do get any psychic powers off.

Even with the 3++ and no psychic powers, you still kill like 5 Wolf Guard before they hit.


I.

on what planet are you from?

i love how your power unit kills 5 outright guarenteed.. i can spout numbers out my butt too.. i have the same 3++ as you do.. add in bjorn and with few of you being able to crack armor 13.. your not guarenteed anything..

i didnt say it was going to beat this unit i said it could cause some problems... and exactly how are you so overwhelmingly killing 5 when your hitting on 4's and im hitting on 3's?

""but with 2++ or 3++ on plenty of guys they're not winning that combat.""" i have the same numbers you do .. 3++ is the same everywhere
your one 2++ is a maybe at best

[Tyrendian]

1. take Obyron
2. get charged by the IG blob
3. let them attack you
4. laugh as they miss you a billion times
5. hack them apart with you billion Warscythe attacks

(how you survive between steps 4 and 5 might seem like a mystery... which is wholly intentional - we Necrons are a mysterious race after all! :P )

[DarkLink]

on what planet are you from?

One where they invented this little thing called math. It's rather convenient how you can calculate the average results of rolling large numbers of dice.



30-man Death Company, all of them can replace their weapons for power weapons, so as we are going for overkill lets give them all thunder hammers and jump packs for manouerability + Lemartes 2100 points. 120 S 9 attacks re-rolling to hit and to wound. 1 unit no HQ or ICs joined to it. Swap out the TH for Power weapons to save 450pts and not striking last.

But you could add say Astrorath & Reculsiarch (hell just put a libby in there for Phsyic defense). That wouldn't be out of context. May a collection of priests there as well.
or

30-man Nobz unit with Warboss boss pole eavy armour, random collection of power claws, uge choppas, + Painboy, cybork upgrades all round

I think we've got a contender. They're also one of the only units that's actually more expensive than Paladins;). Thunder Hammer Jump Pack Death Company are 65pts/model. Not being able to get Storm Shields hurts a little bit, though. And I don't think you can get a unit of 30 Nobz.


For a true points cost no object douchebag convention, the maximum number of necron lords & overlords, all with tesseract labyrinths, mindshackle scarabs, warscythes, res orbs, phase shifters, tachyon arrows and anything else they can get their greedy metal hands on.

There's another, but I think the Death Company would smash these guys.


Saint Celestine
Jacobs
50 man guard squad. 5 power axes
5 commissar's 5 power axes
5 priest 5 eviserators
I think guard allows me 3 more priest with 3 eviserators

That's 50 power axe attacks on the charge, 32 eviserator attacks on the charge, and 150 guardsman swing on the charge
+ Jacobs, + Celestine with on extra attack.

Oh also add in commissar yorrick since I can add my 1 hq from the guard. Have to find my guard codex to see if techpriest are IC's if so and max tech priest as well.

Due to jacobs everyone get's an extra attack and feel no pain. Sister's is the primary with Guard allies. Nothing can beat that lol. Also keep in mind Celestine can tank for the unit.

That might be a little vulnerable to getting charged. If one of the other power units here charges them, there won't be many Guardsmen left to attack back. The Paladins kill 40 on the charge.

[Dlatrex]

1. take Obyron
2. get charged by the IG blob
3. let them attack you
4. laugh as they miss you a billion times
5. hack them apart with you billion Warscythe attacks

(how you survive between steps 4 and 5 might seem like a mystery... which is wholly intentional - we Necrons are a mysterious race after all! :P )

While i think this setup would be hilarious to watch, it is unfortunately regulated by the cap on cleaving counter blow. =) At least, as a single turn of combat. You could keep it up over the course of ~12 rounds of assault and hack your way through most of the blob I guess.

[rle68]

One where they invented this little thing called math. It's rather convenient how you can calculate the average results of rolling large numbers of dice.



.

except your math isnt supported by the numbers.. face it you were talking out of your butt..

[Kaiserdean]

I don't know if it'll stand up to the 30 Death Company unit, but I had a terrible time against 15 Fenrisian wolves with 3 Wolf Lords riding Thunder wolves (and another time against 5 thunder wolf riders with 3 Wolf Lords attached with various weapons.) Most of them had storm shields.

[Mr.Pickelz]

Full Biker Nobz - Pain boy/Banner/ Kombi-Scorchas/(1/2) the unit with Klaws other with Big Choppa's(these will be in front to absorb wounds)/ Cybork Body

Zhadsnark da Rippa (IA)

Warboss on bike, with Kombi scorcha, Attack Squig, Klaw, Cybork, Bosspole

Tactics - use the Trubo-boosting Bikerz to get a solid ring around any unit you want to assault, keeping a close eye on distance between models, then have Zhadsnark Tank shock said unit, only going about 2 or 3 inches. This forces the opposing unit to:
A. Pass leadership test, and attempt a DoG attack, this one attack must wound and kill the Biker-boss Zhadsnark (T6 so can't be insta-killed by Str 10 weapons), if not, then the model is killed, and the squad now has to move out of his way, keeping one inch away from the Nobz+ Warboss' squad and Zhardsnark, any model that cannot, is killed. This would destroy a good chunk of models making the subsequent assault from the Nobz more powerful.

B. Fail Leadership test and fall back into the Nobz squad, and are destroyed...

Being assaulted, means that the Scorchas (heavy flamers) get 12xD3 auto-hits... Normal boss would accept or deny challenges, and Zhad's Klaw strikes at his normal Initiative of 4.

Edit: i wrote this thinking the unit would have to fit in a list under 2k points. If using Duo FOC, then 2 more Bosses on Bikes would be in it.

[DarkLink]

except your math isnt supported by the numbers..

?

5 Paladins and Librarian with Swords/Staves at WS5, and one with a Banner, 3 attacks base thanks to the banner, Draigo's 5 attacks, and the Techmarine's 2, +1A for Counter Attack from Draigo, all above I1. You're at -1T and I hit on 3's with everyone but the Techmarine. That's 3 attacks hitting on 4's and wounding on 3's (you're -1T from Rad Grenades), 28 hitting and wounding on 3's, and 6 from Draigo hitting on 3's with one reroll (master crafted) and wounding on 2's.

That gives us 4.22 hits from Draigo, and 20.17 hits from everyone else. Rolling to wound gives us 16.97 wounds on average dice. Roll your 3++ and that's 5.66 dead Wolf Guard on average.

Then we drop to I1.

Paladins hit with 4 Hammers with 4 attacks each for 16 attacks, hitting on 3's, wounding on 2's. That's another 2.96 dead Wolf Guard. The 4 remaining Wolf Guard hit back with 3A each, hitting on 4's (can SW's get Prescience?) and wounding on 2's. That's 5 Str 8 AP2 wounds. I've got multiple models with 2++ invulnerable saves, and several more with 3/4++, so you kill maybe one Paladin on average.

The Wolf Guard kill about one Paladin. Paladins kill 8.6 Wolf Guard.

I don't know Njal's stats, but Wolf Priests generally aren't uber in assault so it's maybe another dead Paladin or two. Bjorn can't be attached to the squad, so I'm not counting him. And if I put Draigo up against your Wolf Priest, Draigo Smash. That's also assuming you block every single one of my psychic powers (Prescience, four Hammerhand attempts, and whatever other Divination powers I get, like 4++ saves, and my Force Weapon activation if need be).

You don't win that fight.



Of course, 10 THSS Terminators would do a fair bit better. I'd only kill 4-5 before they hit, maybe 4 at I1, and their attackers would do like 10 wounds, assuming reroll to hit from a Chaplain, so I'd probably lose my Techmarine and one or two Paladins instead of just a single Paladin, depending on how I roll for my Warding Staves. They can't block my psychic powers, though, so I'll hit with rerolls and wound on 2's with everyone. So I'm pretty confident the Paladins still win.


face it you were talking out of your butt..

Why do they still let you post?

[rle68]

I don't know if it'll stand up to the 30 Death Company unit, but I had a terrible time against 15 Fenrisian wolves with 3 Wolf Lords riding Thunder wolves (and another time against 5 thunder wolf riders with 3 Wolf Lords attached with various weapons.) Most of them had storm shields.

i dont use TWC but i didnt even thnk of that.... lol thats a damn good idea

[DarkLink]

Wolf Lords can be super nasty, yeah. Maybe 3 of them with a Rune Priest/Njal in Wolf Guard Terminator THSS unit?

Nob Bikerz get Force Weaponed too easily. Between Rad/Psykotroke grenades and all their psychic powers, Paladins own Nob Bikerz in assault. Heck, I've has a mere GKSS squad with an attached Grand Master single-handedly wipe a unit of like 7 Nob Bikerz on the charge. They are a lot tougher to deal with against shooting thanks to base T5, though.

[rle68]

this is why your math dont hunt... or you dont know SW

i hit you on 3's no matter what you do.. wolf tooth necklaces .. you might want to look that up

ill even be a cool guy page 62 codex

oh and ill apologize now and say your correct on bjorn my fault i forgot he cant lead the unit.. throw in Ragnar instead.. add a slew of more attacks for you to deal with

[Mr.Pickelz]

"Nob Bikerz get Force Weaponed too easily. Between Rad/Psykotroke grenades and all their psychic powers, Paladins own Nob Bikerz in assault. Heck, I've has a mere GKSS squad with an attached Grand Master single-handedly wipe a unit of like 7 Nob Bikerz on the charge. They are a lot tougher to deal with against shooting thanks to base T5, though. "

True, but with Zhadsnark's I4 Power Klaw and another Boss to tie up the Grand Master, those SS/Paladins better have Halberds, or some Str10 AP2 pain is coming down, and with the atuo-hitting overwatch... you could loose like 1 or 2 paladins which would be a sword or hammer, lowering your 3++ or your killing powers. it would be an interesting fight to see. And the Tank Shock Tactic would lower the models in the squad, potentially killing your GM/Libby, and therefore removing grenades. the only rebuttle i see, is using the hammer to insta-gib Zhadsnark, which then keeps the Nobz safe from that for that assault phase.

[DarkLink]

One HQ squares off with the Warboss, probably Draigo, and at I4 how many attacks does Zhadsnark get? I doubt he alone can kill enough Paladins to make much of a difference, especially with all the Invulnerable saves Paladins get in assault. Meanwhile, the Paladins hit on 4's with rerolls, wound on 2's, 4 attacks each, and since I can ID you by default you only get a 5++ and no FNP. My I4, ignoring Draigo, kills 17 Nob Bikerz on average. Draigo Force Weapons your Warboss, and the only attacks you get are Zhandsnark's. Unless I'm missing something.


this is why your math dont hunt... or you dont know SW

i hit you on 3's no matter what you do.. wolf tooth necklaces .. you might want to look that up

ill even be a cool guy page 62 codex


I know what they do. It doesn't matter. You can't take Wolf Tooth Necklaces on Wolf Guard. Even if they did, then you'd maybe kill 2 Paladins instead of 1. Tides are definitely turning.

Edit: I didn't know maths could hunt... you learn something new every day, I guess.

[Nabterayl]

Zhardsnark is [EDIT: I4 after all, my bad]. I agree that a tricked-out nob bikerz squad wouldn't defeat that paladin squad, though.

EDIT: You've never heard the phrase, "Your X don't hunt," DarkLink?

[DarkLink]

No. Sounds like something a redneck would say.

[Nabterayl]

Pfff. You live in Sacramento. You are a redneck by Los Angeles/Bay Area standards.

Sounds like your vernacular don't hunt ;)

[rle68]

One HQ squares off with the Warboss, probably Draigo, and at I4 how many attacks does Zhadsnark get? I doubt he alone can kill enough Paladins to make much of a difference, especially with all the Invulnerable saves Paladins get in assault. Meanwhile, the Paladins hit on 4's with rerolls, wound on 2's, 4 attacks each, and since I can ID you by default you only get a 5++ and no FNP. My I4, ignoring Draigo, kills 17 Nob Bikerz on average. Draigo Force Weapons your Warboss, and the only attacks you get are Zhandsnark's. Unless I'm missing something.



I know what they do. It doesn't matter. You can't take Wolf Tooth Necklaces on Wolf Guard. Even if they did, then you'd maybe kill 2 Paladins instead of 1. Tides are definitely turning.

Edit: I didn't know maths could hunt... you learn something new every day, I guess.

I will take a majo rmea culpa here and say i am wrong i was reading the battle leader entry not the wolf guard itself.. apologies for being incorrect

i will refrain from commenting on your rude comment and leave it be

[Power Klawz]

I'd think that best would be a more realistic term, like most bang for your buck unit. Most tactically flexible, most likely to win common engagements, most points efficient etc. etc.

If you're going to just try and find the single unit that can cause the most damge then its probably the unit you can make the biggest and take power weapons on. I'm pretty sure Death Company has no contenders here.

[Mr.Pickelz]

Dealing with the counter-assault would be undesirable for the unit, but on the charge the unit would stand a good chance at knocking around Str 10 the warboss(and Zhadsnark) would wreck some face, and getting a 4+ cover to Overwatch + tank shock killing some models means that Psycannons,Hammers, Apoth., and/or characters could get killed off before the assault is even started. The footprint of 12 Terminators and a Techmarine is pretty big, and forcing that unit to crunch in means 4 to 5 models would be killed by the tank shock (Zhadsnark) "IF" you don't stop him with one of the Daemonhammers force weapon.(which would waste the squad's Warp Charge)

So under perfect conditions, I do believe that the Nobz would win against the Paladins, However if the Paladins charge, then the Paladins would win.

[chicop76]

One where they invented this little thing called math. It's rather convenient how you can calculate the average results of rolling large numbers of dice.



I think we've got a contender. They're also one of the only units that's actually more expensive than Paladins;). Thunder Hammer Jump Pack Death Company are 65pts/model. Not being able to get Storm Shields hurts a little bit, though. And I don't think you can get a unit of 30 Nobz.



There's another, but I think the Death Company would smash these guys.



That might be a little vulnerable to getting charged. If one of the other power units here charges them, there won't be many Guardsmen left to attack back. The Paladins kill 40 on the charge.

If you kill 40 on the charge that's fine. The unit is fearless

Than you have 40 strength 4 ap 2 power weapons hitting back.
Also 45 strength 6 ap 2 weapons hitting back
Saint celestine

Not to mention instead of Yorrick just run a psyker to give the squad prescience

30 strength 4 hits and 33 strength 6 hits.

15 strength 4, 28 strength 6 wounds.

Total of 43 invulnerable save, killing around 30 death company, not including celestine, jacobs, or normal guardsmen.

That's 10 dead paladins, ignoring +2 invulnerable. Not like you can't just challenge the +2 or +3 invulnerable saving character with 15 Priest, 5 commissars, or 5 sargents, or Saint Celestine.

Without fearless you are still stubborn and can re roll by killing a sargent. Hard to fail with leadership 9.

Remember the whole squad is feel no pain.

To the necron player good luck trying to kill the squad, it would own you.

[Maelstorm]

190 points: 10 Deathmarks
. 60 points: 2 Despair Crypteks
100 points: 1 Night Scythe

The unit will drop 16 to 17 "Marked for Death" Terminators in one round. Snapfire against anything left standing attempting a charge will kill an additional 6 to 8 Marked for Death Terminators.

Add a tooled-up Overlord (Mindshackle Scarabs, Weave, Warscythe, Resurrection Orb) for insurance.

Great for removing "Best Assault Units" of any flavor, even with FNP.

350 points to nuke 1,425 points of Deathstar in one shot, enjoy...

[Pater Sin]

10 incubi whith Klavex, Lelith Herespex for dueling and drazar for hitting really hard. Thats a lot of ap3/ignores saves.

[DarkLink]

I'd think that best would be a more realistic term, like most bang for your buck unit. Most tactically flexible, most likely to win common engagements, most points efficient etc. etc.

If you're going to just try and find the single unit that can cause the most damge then its probably the unit you can make the biggest and take power weapons on. I'm pretty sure Death Company has no contenders here.

Actually, I some rolling assuming 30 DC charged 10 Paladins, and the Paladins actually came out on top fairly handily. The DC get dropped to T3, one Hammerhand out of four attempts gets me Str 5, I auto-pass the Force Weapon check to ignore FNP, and you don't really have any invulnerable saves. The Paladins hit on 4's with rerolls (both are WS5), wound on 2's, and Counter Attack from Draigo.

Draigo gets 6A hitting on 3's, and there are 27 other I4 AP3 attacks, and 4 AP- attacks. That's 22.15 dead before they get to hit.

At I1, the rest of the Paladins get 16 Hammer attacks, killing 10 more. So the Death Company get wiped with a small margin of safety, not counting any attached ICs.

The 8 remaining Death Company hit back, and I'll assume rerolls to hit from a chaplain or something and Rage for +2A. 4A each, for 32A. 24 hit, 20 wound. Draigo can tank with his 3++ and FNP (T5), absorbing all but .44 wounds, which can then go on a Warding Stave.

That doesn't take attached characters into account. You could throw in a Chaplain, Librarian, and some Sanguinary Priests, but mostly they just bring some more thunder hammer attacks. The Warding Staves can tank a lot more wounds, so you might kill a few more guys but most of the squad will be alive to kill your remaining guys. So the Paladins actually hold up surprisingly well, considering that they're ~1500pts to the DC+Rechlisiarch+Librarian+9 Sanguinary Priests ~3000pts.


Dealing with the counter-assault would be undesirable for the unit, but on the charge the unit would stand a good chance at knocking around Str 10 the warboss(and Zhadsnark) would wreck some face, and getting a 4+ cover to Overwatch + tank shock killing some models means that Psycannons,Hammers, Apoth., and/or characters could get killed off before the assault is even started. The footprint of 12 Terminators and a Techmarine is pretty big, and forcing that unit to crunch in means 4 to 5 models would be killed by the tank shock (Zhadsnark) "IF" you don't stop him with one of the Daemonhammers force weapon.(which would waste the squad's Warp Charge)

By Tank Shock, do you mean the Deff Rolla? Because there's pretty much no reason to every Death or Glory for any reason, like, ever. Draigo makes them Fearless, they just step aside after taking their D6 hits. The Tank Shock mechanic is pretty disappointing, in my opinion. Hammer of Wrath, too. Also, I don't have IA8, so I don't know anything about Zhadsnark. I5 Klaw, and anything else?

There's no need to worry about wasting the squad's Warp Charge. Draigo, the Techmarine, and the Librarian all have Hammerhand, so you can get Str 7 on everyone if you want, 10 on the Hammers, and still use your NFW.



So under perfect conditions, I do believe that the Nobz would win against the Paladins, However if the Paladins charge, then the Paladins would win.

I've played against Orks so much, I literally ignore Nob Bikerz unless they're shooting at my power armor guys. Their shooting mostly bounces off of Paladins, and I've never had Paladins not completely bend the Bikerz over in a bad way. Ever. And I've played against Orks a lot. And I don't even run Rad/Psyktoroke grenades and stuff anymore, just Draigo, Coteaz, and 10 Paladins.




Pfff. You live in Sacramento. You are a redneck by Los Angeles/Bay Area standards.

Sounds like your vernacular don't hunt ;)

You're thinking Stockton. That's hella ghetto. And it's really funny how people from SoCal wince at the word hella. And I actually live pretty well outside of Sacramento itself, Great Escape Games just happens to be the main 40k community in the area. We've got a nice gated community and some veritable mansions up here.

[DarkLink]

Also, 3 Wolf Lords on TWCavalry, Njal, 10 THSS Wolf Guard with Arjac is pretty beefy, if you want to go all the way with the Wolf Guard unit.

Edit: ah, he can Tank Shock. I've literally never seen anyone actually pull that off, ever, even with full sized vehicles. In fact, despite that the rule for crushing models is there I'm pretty sure it's actually effectively impossible to actually do.