1500 point Guard list for the GT

[Dark_Crozius]

Hi all, i'm currently working on a small resistance themed army for this years GT and was wondering if you all could take a look at my list and tell me what you think.

HQ

Company command sqad
Creed
Vox caster
Chimera

Troops

Veteran squad
Vox
Melta gun
Lascannon
Demoltions
Chimera

Veteran squad
Vox
Melta gun
Lascannon
Demoltions
Chimera

Veteran squad
Vox
Melta gun
Lascannon
Demoltions
Chimera

Veteran squad
Bastone
3 meltas
Demoltions
Chimera

Fast attack

Vendetta

2 Bane wolves.

Any comments?

[Tallarn]

At 1500 points you don't need to be dropping 1/10th of your points on special characters and Creed really shouldn't be in a list under the 2k mark.

At 1500 points one veteran squad with air transport at most.

Lascannons in the vetern squads?

Banewolf is a botique buy - like the snickers bar you toss in the cart while you are waiting with the eggs and bread in the checkout line. You shouldn't toss it in there, but you just can't help yourself...

In the GT you don't need to be cute - you just need to win, and vetern squads dragging around lascannon point-sinks aren't gonna do it for you.

Base it around a regular company commander in a chimera, add a platoon of 3x squads with missile launchers and meltas or grenades and then a veteran squad in a air transport for the second troops choice. Then add in 2x Russ and use the left over points to buy some auto cannon squads. It aint cute, but it will get the job done.

at 1500 points you can have:

a company HQ w/ astro path in a chimera

Platoon A with 3x squads Missile and Melta and an Autocannon squad

Platoon B with Al'Rahiem 2x squads and 3x chimeras

Veteran Squad in a Valk

2x Russ

At 1500 points, that is how you ruin someones day. ;)

[Dark_Crozius]

Thanks for the advice, i'll be sure to take it on bord but first i'd like to make a few points as to why certain things are the way they are.

First of all the veteran squads instead of the platoon:

Originaly i was going to field a infantry platoon with 3 squads with lascannons and meltas. Then i realised that it's only an extra 20 points to make guadsmen squads +1BS which is'nt that bad. In alot of the lists i've been seeing for the GT the're either realy fast and get into close combat realy quickly or they kill you from afar, realy quickly. That means you get at best 1 maybe 2 rounds of firing, so you need to make the shots count.

Best thing was, in order to make my squads veterans all i needed to come up with was 60 points which was easily covered by losing the platoon comannd (not a real loss, it was basicaly a toss up between give a few orders or give all the troops +1BS)

That being said i did go alittle overbord with the list in that i've given them all demoltions. A nice addition and i thought a demo charge would give me a good 'final solution' to enemy squads getting to close to mine but i probibly should drop them. That frees up 90 points straight away.

Next, Creed:
I'm still very unsure about this one way or the other. On the one hand he does solve the problem of orders. As i stated above by making my troops veterans i've cost myself a platoon command to give my army some orders, but Creed can give out 4 a turn which should make up for that.

Plus the ability to make one unit scout should'nt be ignored. I'm very tempted by the idea of scouting a squadron of fast moving Banewolves then moving flat out on turn one to use the toxic cannon on the unsupecting enemy. Remember it's a deffencive weapon so can always fire! Good image but realisticaly i'll probibly scout Bastones tank hunters with Vendetta support to get up close with the melta guns.

That said he is alot of points for a guard army. I'll play test him and let you know.

Ok that means i've got 90 points to spend definitly and 180 points if i drop creed.

Oh and lastly i forgot to say i've also got Marbo in the list.

Any sugestions or comments on what i've just said?

[TheKingElessar]

Bastonne is crap.

So is having a Las/Melt Vet unit. Even shooting a BS4 las out of an AV12 Bunker doesn't matter to most enemies.

I think Vets should be 3 Melta, or go home.

What weapons are the Chimmys? Hopefully ML/HF.

[Dark_Crozius]

Whats wrond with Bastone? He comes with some decent equipment and the extra order is always handy. His squad getting into meltagun range is and recieving the order of "bring it down" can spell doom for most tanks.

Chimeras where multi laser/heavy bolter but seeing as i havent bought them yet i could change them to flamers if people think thats better?

[TheKingElessar]

Hugely. The ability to kill hordes is important, and so is not encouraging you to sit on the back line when the objectives are over there.

Bastonne is way overcosted for a freaking order. Orders are poo anyway. They're a handy gimmick, but not reliable. 56% to pass, most of the time. Hardly game-breaking.

3x BS4 Meltaguns within 6" is enough for tanks anyway, and if you need BID to get it to work, buy some new dice.

[Dark_Crozius]

Fair comments i supose. So I'm droping the demolitons from 3 of my squads (the las/melta ones) and I'm also droping Bastone. That off the top of my head means 150 points to play around with. Any ideas?

Also any thoughts on if i should take creed or not?

[TheKingElessar]

I think he needs a moshpit to be good, so I'd not use him. That said, I know a guy who swears by him in AirCav...

My instinct is no.

To me, 150 points = either another 3MeltVetChim Squad, or another Vendetta. That said, I'm working without the Dex atm. :)

[Dark_Crozius]

Thanks, let me know if you think of something when you have the codex to hand.

Droping creed would leave me with 240 points to spend of thism list.

Ideas?

[TheKingElessar]

With 290 (for both, and dropping other Demos and Voxes) ...*reaches for Dex*

Hmmm. Best thing I can see is also dropping the BWolves, (540) taking 3 Deathstrikes (480) putting 4 Melta in CCS (40) and replace 2 Meltas in 2 of the Vet squads with Heavy Flamers, for mopping up.

3 Manticores if you don't want to rely on the Deathstrikes (although with 3, pretty good odds.) 2 Medusas and 2 Meltas in CCS, if unwilling to drop Wolves etc. :)

[Dark_Crozius]

Intresting idea. I'll keep the wolves but i'll add the medusas (looking through the codex they look amazing)

[xarius]

colossus are IMO a great GT choice as they ignore cover with an AP3 pie plate and vets with a short range assault weapon and a long range heavy are a points sink. the banewolfs are also not your best choice there. try a platoon w/ alrahem and chimeras, squads with flmaers, grenade launchers and meltas etc. and another platoon with grenade launchers and HB/autocannons for fire support. vendettas need to move a lot and thus wont get all those lascannon shots you payed quite a bit for. if you ant to fly take a basic valk but i wouldnt with an outflanking platoon.

voxes are a must btw

[Jwolf]

Creed is not a good choice for your army, so it's good that you're dropping him. Mechanized units can't take orders while mounted, and you'd going to want to stay mounted, so a cheap commander is better - might even consider a Primaris to throw in to a Chimera with Vets, since they can shoot their Meltas and he can throw his brain bolts out of the same hatch.

Veterans with 3 Meltas should be in the list as 1+ - never leave home without them. They make excellent riders for Valkyries, and do well in their own Chimeras.
Medusas are very good and cost effective, especially if fired from behind obscuring Chimeras.
Deathstrike Missiles are fun, but in 1500 points on a tournament board, very few opposing builds won't be able to make it very hard to fire them effectively. And their own rules mean they can be unmolested and fail to fire in a 5 turn game.
Bastonne is expensive, but his unit has to be killed completely to be stopped, which is a nice perk for a Guard list. Go with Carapace for that sort of Vet unit, and use them away from the dead center of the action, so that volume of fire doesn't simply turn them into a dead point sink.
Chimeras have Turret Multilasers and Hull Heavy Flamers. I hear rumors of other builds for them, but they can't possibly be true.

If you want to stick to your resistance theme, Harker has a very good resistance feel to him, with the infiltration/outflanking.

[Chumbalaya]

Pretty much what the King said.

I'd probably go for Manticores over Deathstrikes though. They're fun units, I'd just prefer getting up to 9 S10 blasts 1st turn for the Alpha Strike of doom.

[Dark_Crozius]

Ok lets try this list again:

HQ:
company command squad
vox
3 plasma guns
medic
Master of ordinance
chimera 205 points

Primaris Psyker 70 points

TROOPS:
Veteran squad
Vox
Lascannon
melta gun
flamer
chimera 165 points

Veteran squad
Vox
Lascannon
melta gun
flamer
chimera 165 points

Veteran squad
Vox
Lascannon
melta gun
flamer
chimera 165 points

Veteran squad
3 melta guns
carapace armour
Bastone
chimera 245 points

ELITES:
Marbo 65 points

FAST ATTACK:
Vendetta 130 points

HEAVY SUPPORT:
Colossus 140 points

Colossus 140 points

Total: 1500 points
Scoring units: 4
Kill points: 15

[Chumbalaya]

Plasma+medic is too expensive and meltas are better.

Vets need more meltas, no lascannons.

Primaris has no purpose, ditch it.

Collussi kill infantry dead, especially infantry piling out of their transports. Look into picking up some Vendettas or Hydras to facilitate that.

[Dark_Crozius]

Thanks again for replys.

Any suggestions on what to do with the command squad? I'm realy struging on giving thses guys a purpose to be. How do you guys use yours?

[Chumbalaya]

Just another Vet squad, with advisors.

[Dark_Crozius]

Ok this list is slowly starting to come togther- thanks everyone. Now then, onto attempt 3:

HQ

Commpany command squad
vox
chimera 110 points

Troops

Veteran squad
melta
flamer
vox
lascannon
chimera 165 points

Veteran squad
melta
flamer
vox
lascannon
chimera 165 points


Veteran squad
melta
flamer
vox
lascannon
chimera 165 points


Veteran squad
Bastone
3 meltaguns
carapace armour
chimera 245 points

Veteran squad
Harker
3 meltaguns
vox 160 points

Elites

Marbo 65 points

Fast attack

Vendetta 130 points

Heavy support

2 colossus- 280 points

[Madjob]

I get the feeling people are perhaps overemphasizing meltas here - definitely if you've only got one or even two Vet squads, take meltas over anything else, but I don't think choking yourself on them is going to do you any good either.

And I still see those Veteran Lascannon teams in your list. Far be it from me to try and strip an army down to a cookie cutter list, but ANY HW team in a transport is probably a mistake. Keep those Chimeras moving and filled with guns that can actually fire while it does.

[Chumbalaya]

The Chimeras have heavy flamers, so they end up a very flexible unit.

I'd drop the lascannons for the above reasons along with the voxes (you can't receive orders in a transport). Give your CCS some loving, orders mean little in a mech list but advisors and more melta can't go wrong.

Bastonne is still overpriced and can't dish out orders to a unit in a transport (even his own).

Harker could be a fun objective camper. Go for an autocannon and 3 GL and sit pretty on your home objective.

I'd also grab another Vendetta or 2 to help you threaten at range. You pop bad guys out, the Collussi mess them up.