Enter the Citadel

[eldargal]

So Enter the Citadel (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=9500010) is on at Warhammer World on the 13th of July:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3270184a_7.jpg

If anyone is going FOR THE LOVE OF GOD take a camera and record the seminars.

[Gotthammer]

And don't ask about the missing legions, when codex X is being released or any of that crap in the open forum. Hit 'em with the good stuff!

[desert_hack]

Please, if anyone is going, for the love of God ask Phil Kelly to sort out the rules for the burning chariot of Tzeentch. Give it relentless or remove 'heavy' from the flamer's weapon profile. At the moment it can't move and shoot, which makes it completely unusable.

[Learn2Eel]

I am quite curious as to what all the *classified by the Inquisition* stuff refers to. There is another image in that article with even more *classified by the Inquisition*, but one of them even has the guests blanked out. Hmmm. Can we expect one of them either to be talking about the Apocalypse release, or about something else entirely - i.e. the new Space Marines?

[DrLove42]

Classified probably refers to a talk about the new release at the beginning of July

I second EG 's request for a vid of seminar one

Also the "Ask the Audience" sesssion. Thats got the potential to be ugly

[Learn2Eel]

I can imagine questions relating to Dire Avengers in particular becoming very heated....

Do we know what is supposed to be coming out after Apocalypse? From memory it was Lizardmen.

[DrLove42]

I thought it was Spess Muhreeens

[eldargal]

Lizardmen in August supposedly.

[Learn2Eel]

I would imagine it would be Space Marines too. All I really care about is that Tyranids are supposed to be the next codex after them.

[Defenestratus]

Oh what would I give to be able to ask PK what he was smoking when he came up with some of the rules for the Eldar.

[leighjt]

I am quite curious as to what all the *classified by the Inquisition* stuff refers to. There is another image in that article with even more *classified by the Inquisition*, but one of them even has the guests blanked out. Hmmm. Can we expect one of them either to be talking about the Apocalypse release, or about something else entirely - i.e. the new Space Marines?

I would have thought that it is to do with the Apoc release... seeing that they have a discussion about making 'big models'... for me that kind of gives the game away

[Mr Mystery]

Things not to ask Studio Bods about, on account it's nothing to do with them

Pricing!
IP cases!
Anything generally whine related on the interwebs!

Keep it relevant to the people you're asking.

[eldargal]

I'm still irritated how the people at last years Games Day wasted the whole ******* seminar by asking the same questions AFTER they were told they wouldn't answer those questions in the beginning. Took Games Day Australia to get some real bloody information about things.

[Gotthammer]

Probably why they aren't doing it here this year :p

[eldargal]

I don't know, I think they would have preferred being asked sensible questions instead of 'Why does Finecast suck?', 'Why are your prices so high?', 'What about ******* Wood Elves?' and 'What release is coming next?' over and over.:p

[Gotthammer]

But we got actual information out of GW and that is their kryptonite or something. It probably took months for the confusion at HQ to die down "our fans have some idea of what we're doing and why - it's too much pressure! What are we gonna do?!"

[-Tom-]

So, if I went, would it be a waste of time to ask Jes where his new jetbike model is in the grand scheme of releases?

[eldargal]

So, if I went, would it be a waste of time to ask Jes where his new jetbike model is in the grand scheme of releases?
Maybe not, you might get something like 'it will come eventually' which would be better than knowing nothing. It just depends if they say 'don't ask about forthcoming releases' at the start or not, if they do then it is just rude and a waste of time for everyone.

[Lexington]

I'm still irritated how the people at last years Games Day wasted the whole ******* seminar by asking the same questions AFTER they were told they wouldn't answer those questions in the beginning.
I think this happens during every Studio Seminar. It's seriously one of the most embarrassing things I've ever been witness to.

[Bigred]

Yup - someone go and PLEASE TAKE A CAMERA!

We'll make a special thread just for it that weekend.

I'm betting the "classified" thing is Apocalypse.

The release order I'm still operating under is:

-Apoc
-Lizardmen
-Space Marines

[Pendragon38]

Man I wish sometimes I lived in the UK. I would ask if they planed to bring back robots....... And Squats FTW....... ;)

[deinol]

I would imagine it would be Space Marines too. All I really care about is that Tyranids are supposed to be the next codex after them.

Why would Tyranids be next? Orks are the last poor [illegitimate children] on a 4E Codex, they really should get an update before more 5E books come out. I know Marines get the exception for being the most popular faction (I would have put them in the Dark Angels slot, but oh we'll), but poor Orks need a face lift too.


Sorry Black Templars, but I think you'll be a Iayandin style supplement. Which is probably better than being last on the list to get a "full" codex.

[Sainhann]

I would sure love to be there for the 3:00 to 3:45 piece because I sure would love to tell them my view of what GW is doing to 40K.

Though if I did I would expect to be thrown out by 3:10 and 3:15 at the latest.

[Power Klawz]

Tyranids need it more than orks. Despite being old, the Ork 'dex is still pretty amazing. The last nids dex was pretty much DOA and has languished in obscurity ever since.

And trust me, I really, really want a 6th edition ork codex. I really just want playable flash gitz and models to go with. (I'm calling it here that there will be a squiggoth-like big model in the next ork release though.)

[Mr Mystery]

I would sure love to be there for the 3:00 to 3:45 piece because I sure would love to tell them my view of what GW is doing to 40K.

Though if I did I would expect to be thrown out by 3:10 and 3:15 at the latest.

You mean churning out codecies at an unprecedented rate, with none yet suffering from codex creep? Or perhaps launching more and more plastic kits? Maybe you mean choosing to focus on a narrative/cinematic approach?

[Galadren]

Why would Tyranids be next? Orks are the last poor [illegitimate children] on a 4E Codex, they really should get an update before more 5E books come out. I know Marines get the exception for being the most popular faction (I would have put them in the Dark Angels slot, but oh we'll), but poor Orks need a face lift too.


Sorry Black Templars, but I think you'll be a Iayandin style supplement. Which is probably better than being last on the list to get a "full" codex.

I'm still waiting to see a Dev statement or rumor from a reliable source that says Black Templars aren't getting a full codex. Because so far all I've seen are people taking Vetock's comment along the lines of "We're not sure what to do with them" and turning it into "we're folding them back into Space Marines."

That said, I wouldn't mind if someone asked Phil Kelly or someone about them.

[Wildeybeast]

But we got actual information out of GW and that is their kryptonite or something. It probably took months for the confusion at HQ to die down "our fans have some idea of what we're doing and why - it's too much pressure! What are we gonna do?!"

It's what they want actually. JJ even went to the extent of writing a Standard Bearer a year or two ago that answered all the most commonly asked questions in the hope that people would stop asking them at events. He obviously failed to realise that the morons who ask such questions are not going to have the intelligence levels to read Standard Bearer.

[Sainhann]

You mean churning out codecies at an unprecedented rate, with none yet suffering from codex creep? Or perhaps launching more and more plastic kits? Maybe you mean choosing to focus on a narrative/cinematic approach?

Is the game balanced yet?

Is there any reason for a Chaos player not to take 3 Heldrakes?

Or how about the soon to be coming of Wave Serpent spam.

They want to sell miniatures and they will continue to write up rules or provide certain models into the game that the Fanboyz cannot pass up and buy three of them.

It doesn't matter that as soon as they put out a new rulebook or Codex/Army Book that they need to provide FAQ's for them.

Their rules have sucked over the past several Editions.

There was no need to put in Cover saves in 5th Edition.

Now in 6th Edition you have wound allocation and that didn't cause any problems or the WAACer's didn't try to take advantage of it.

Plus don't get me started on the unneeded nerfing of Eldar Guardians S. Catapults by cutting their range in half. There is a reason why they increased the Dire Avengers by 6" in 5th Edition and that is no one was buying the models because they suck with a 12" range weapon. They are only a bit better with a 18" range.

So the game has become a "BUCKET OF DICE" and spaming of certain units.

Back at the beginning they gave us the Force Composition Chart and right after that the era of Elite 40K armies came into being.

Minimum two troops and max out everything else.

You do know that the Imperial Guard Codex had to be redesigned because of the FOC, they just could not make a decent army with just 2-6 squads of guardsmen's.

It is also why Orkz have fallen to the bottom Tier of all of the armies. It is a Horde army that can't be a horde army.

So yes I would have plenty of say but what GW has been doing with 40K and how it would appear that they are trying to change it to a large model game. Tau have their Riptide, Eldar has the Wraithknight, Chaos is looking like it is getting the Lord of Battle and chances are good that Orkz will be getting either a Stomper. Just not sure what the Space Marines or Imperial Guard will be getting.

[Denzark]

QUESTION: Does the Iyanden book presage similar releases and for what armies, ie Genestealer cult, SM Chapters, lost and damned etc?

Was Necrons written with 6th ed in mind and is Tesla OP?

[DarkLink]

You mean churning out codecies at an unprecedented rate, with none yet suffering from codex creep? Or perhaps launching more and more plastic kits? Maybe you mean choosing to focus on a narrative/cinematic approach?

Lots of books is nice. You overstate their balance, though. CSM players seem to universally hate their new codex and the Heldrake singlehandedly makes it one of the best books in the game, while everyone but Tau players seem to hate the Tau book. And GW is only par for the course regarding meta balance, with Flyers taking over light vehicle spam as the top game-breaking issue.


It's what they want actually. JJ even went to the extent of writing a Standard Bearer a year or two ago that answered all the most commonly asked questions in the hope that people would stop asking them at events. He obviously failed to realise that the morons who ask such questions are not going to have the intelligence levels to read Standard Bearer.

I'm not even sure what Standard Bearer is. So screw you. As far as most players are concerned, GW has zero outreach, instead relying completely on fansites like this one to spread the word about 40k. Aside from a few painting articles and WD, I've never really seen any marketing from GW itself. Just because they have some sort of newsletter hidden away somewhere I've never seen after playing for most of a decade doesn't make me stupid, and it doesn't mean that JJ's made a solid attempt to reach out and communicate with GW's player base.

[eldargal]

CSM are universally whinng because it wasn't a Legions codex, you mean.:rolleyes: Yes, I'm generalizing.

Asking if we can expect new supplements if Iyanden sells well would be a very good question to ask, just don't ask for specifics as to what they might be.

[pauljc]

Two questions:

1. (And this is really for Eldargal) Ask why Banshees are le poupe, or what Phil's idea was behind creating them without any kind of 'specialness'.

2. Ask Jes why those 2007 Eldar Jetbike re-sculpts never went into production.

Oh, and,

3. Ask Phil why he creates such dull codexes.

[Herzlos]

I'm not even sure what Standard Bearer is.

It was a largely pointless double page article in White Dwarf where JJ occasionally said something interesting but often rambled to fill the space. It's since been replaced by something even less like content, so you wouldn't be faulted for not knowing what it is or not having bothered to read it.

[daboarder]

CSM are universally whinng because it wasn't a Legions codex, you mean.:rolleyes: Yes, I'm generalizing.

Asking if we can expect new supplements if Iyanden sells well would be a very good question to ask, just don't ask for specifics as to what they might be.

if we're gonna generalize, theres three threads in general complaining that T8 W6 3+ isn't survivable.....:p

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

To the people whinging wanting a new ork or nidz codex because there out of date, how about asking in a polite manner,"will SoB ever be coming out and what can we expect from them".

I second would love to see a podcast of this, and hopefully a lot of good questions get asked.

[daboarder]

To the people whinging wanting a new ork or nidz codex because there out of date, how about asking in a polite manner,"will SoB ever be coming out and what can we expect from them".

I second would love to see a podcast of this, and hopefully a lot of good questions get asked.


stuff polite manner, I'm tempted to tell them to stop fr*kking around and release the damn things.

I mean that sci-fi females kickstarter just finished...in 30 seconds...

[Cap'nSmurfs]

On JJ not reaching out: he has literally had a column in White Dwarf for eight sodding years where he does nothing but pontificate about the game and the thinking behind some of the game design decisions they take. I remember in 2008 he even tried to get a podcast series going where they discussed their thinking behind the then-new 5th edition rules. It's not everything it could be, but it is something.

[Herzlos]

On JJ not reaching out: he has literally had a column in White Dwarf for eight sodding years where he does nothing but pontificate about the game and the thinking behind some of the game design decisions they take. I remember in 2008 he even tried to get a podcast series going where they discussed their thinking behind the then-new 5th edition rules. It's not everything it could be, but it is something.

And in the year I've had a subscription (since May 2012) he's said precisely nothing interesting in his articles, so you can't fault people for not paying much attention to them.

[deinol]

To the people whinging wanting a new ork or nidz codex because there out of date, how about asking in a polite manner,"will SoB ever be coming out and what can we expect from them".

I second would love to see a podcast of this, and hopefully a lot of good questions get asked.

I would love to see a Sisters Codex, I'm just not very hopeful. I'd also love to see more female guardsmen. In the fluff men and women serve in the IG, but you wouldn't realize that looking at the model range.

[magickbk]

Nobody reads what JJ says because he says it in an overpriced monthly catalog. If White Dwarf was full of quality content then everyone would read it and his ramblings. I've often thought that even though Standard Bearer was a rambly, unfocused piece, you could at least get an idea of what he was thinking from it, even if that idea was a skewed view of the hobby from a limited group meta, and he doesn't have a lot to do with the day-to-day rules planning anymore.

[Wildeybeast]

I'm not even sure what Standard Bearer is. So screw you. As far as most players are concerned, GW has zero outreach, instead relying completely on fansites like this one to spread the word about 40k. Aside from a few painting articles and WD, I've never really seen any marketing from GW itself. Just because they have some sort of newsletter hidden away somewhere I've never seen after playing for most of a decade doesn't make me stupid, and it doesn't mean that JJ's made a solid attempt to reach out and communicate with GW's player base.

As others have said, it was his regular column in WD, now replaced by the JJ column post overhaul, though that is the same thing. You aren't stupid for not being aware of it, I was merely stating that the morons who always ask the same questions, which always generate the same 'non-answers' from the GW team, won't have read it. Because if they had, they wouldn't still be asking the same dumb questions. Or maybe they would because they are dumb. Who knows?

As for GW doing outreach, I'd consider a monthly column in a monthly gaming magazine to be a good start. Their stores/gaming clubs are another excellent method of them gathering player feedback. I was in Warhammer World the other week and there was an American chap going around asking us questions about the table set up and what sort of scenery we wanted as he runs something similar in America. The annual events and tournaments would be another. They also have a website with a daily blog, as well as every individual store having their own facebook page telling you what is going there. I'm not sure what else you want from them in terms of outreach. There is no point them doing general advertising as there aren't exactly many people sat around wishing someone would tell them about an exciting table top wargame. Word of mouth is a perfectly effective intro to the hobby, and then they have all the other methods above to keep you informed. What else do you actually want them to do?

[DarkLink]

CSM are universally whinng because it wasn't a Legions codex, you mean.:rolleyes: Yes, I'm generalizing.

Also, a lot of units got the same treatment Banshees just did. I mean, I know that Khorne Berzerkers were just soooooo broken last edition, they just had to stay like the same price while getting a couple of nerfs:rolleyes:.

[Power Klawz]

Berserkers vs banshees... funny thing... a unit of 10 berserkers will kill more MEQ than 10 banshees. 210 points with vets.

41 WS5, STR5 attacks on the charge, rerolling misses against space marines. 8 dead MEQ even without a special weapon on the champion.

10 Banshees w/ executioner exarch, 170pts. 27 ws4, str3 ap3 and 3 ws5 str5 ap2 attacks on the charge. 5.8 dead meq.

Oh and berserkers have grenades, and power armor, toughness 4, and they're fearless.

I don't think there's much comparison here.

[DarkLink]

That wasn't my point. My point was, just like Banshees, Berzerkers weren't very good in the last book, and Phil Kelly completely failed to realize this and did a terrible job of making them better. Except unlike the Eldar codex, where this problem is mostly limited to Banshees and a handful of other units to a lesser extent, half the units in the entire CSM codex suffered from this problem. TKSons are still crap. Noise Marines are still only good for their Blastmaster and flamer-thingie. Ever seen Raptors on the table? And how about the Helbrute? Basic CSM still suffer from the same problems as last edition.

And WTF was he thinking with Mutilators and Warp Talons?

[Psychosplodge]

As others have said, it was his regular column in WD, now replaced by the JJ column post overhaul, though that is the same thing.

That's gone down hill from when it started though :(

[daboarder]

That wasn't my point. My point was, just like Banshees, Berzerkers weren't very good in the last book, and Phil Kelly completely failed to realize this and did a terrible job of making them better. Except unlike the Eldar codex, where this problem is mostly limited to Banshees and a handful of other units to a lesser extent, half the units in the entire CSM codex suffered from this problem. TKSons are still crap. Noise Marines are still only good for their Blastmaster and flamer-thingie. Ever seen Raptors on the table? And how about the Helbrute? Basic CSM still suffer from the same problems as last edition.

And WTF was he thinking with Mutilators and Warp Talons?

Which is a good point,

As to mutilators, they got stuck with a bunch of fluff rules (see they are close combat oblits, and therefore must be as slow as oblits....)
and Talons, well thats what happens when you use the old marine +lightning claw+jump pack = Cost. And don't think, gee is survivabillity a factor here?
no idea about the grenades though....

[Kirsten]

Enter the Citadel...
I see what they did there...

[Herzlos]

edit: nvm, got the wrong end of the stick.