1850 Wraith Army

[Garradh]

I've always wanted to play an Iyanden list and proxied a few games in 5th using the 4th rules, so I'm super dee duper excited for this new Codex.

My initial list was:

Yriel
Spiritseer with Firesaber

10x Wraithguard
10x Wraithguard
5x Wraithguard/Scythes
8x Dire Avengers including Exarch with PW/SS, in a Wave Serpent with TL Scatter Lasers, ShuriCannon and Crystal Targetting Matrix
3x Guardian Jetbikes w/ShuriCannon

3x War Walkers with 2 Scatter Lasers each
2x Wraithlords, Scatter/Lance, Sword and 2 flamers each

My opponent for my first game was Tyranids, which allowed me to play the game to my list's strong points - relatively unconstested ranged firepower while advancing a phalanx of Wraithguard backed by the Spiritseer and Wraithlords. The opponent played a Swarmlord/Alpha/Tyrant Guard deathstar, three Tervigons w/corresponding Termagants, two five-man groups of Ymgarl 'stealers, and a Spitterfex. He also deep-striked a brood of deathspitter Termagants and the Doom of Mal'anti in mycetic spores.

With the amount of poisoned attacks his Termagants would deliver, I was concerned for the survival of my high-toughness units. Concentrating my firepower initially on the Tervigons reduced but did not kill any of them, and I had to switch to destroying the Swarmlord and friends as they threatened the Wraith phalanx. At that same time his reserves arrived, and the Tervigons were given a one-round respite to pump out more broods. I made some key mistakes to try to neutralize the deathstar, which saw my Yriel/DA team get whomped by the Carnifex.

Fortunately I was able to stop the deathstar and finish off the Tervigons late in the game, emasculating the Termagants and letting my beleagured Wraithguard rout the smaller bugs.

Lessons learned were that I missed having a Farseer and that Wraithguard are only tougher than they used to be with their S10. I also understand that the game went very much in my favor due to the Nid shooting weakness.

Eldrad
Spiritseer

10x Wraithguard
10x Wraithguard
8x Dire Avengers inc. Exarch with PW/SS in a Wave Serpent w/TL Scatter Lasers
3x Jetbikes
5x Rangers

3x War Walkers with 2 Scatter Lasers each
2x Wraithlords, Scatter/Lance, Sword and 2 flamers each


I think this will be my second test. I found myself missing psychic powers and thought I had plenty of power in the Wraith phalanx but could use a unit to sit in the backfield and camp objectives.

Thoughts?

[G00dySmiley]

I might change a weapon on war walkers, the scatter lasers have to fire together, star cannons for 6 tl str 6 ap2 shots would ruin a terminator squads day

[Garradh]

My biggest concern is with aircraft. My other armies (Guard, BA, CSM) are all very combined-arms including air, AAA, armor, usually artillery, etc. I'm relying on War Walkers for antiair which draws their fire from killing infantry, and honestly S6 BS1, even with TL, Guide, etc. isn't the best for many flyers on the board. The Wraith phalanx should be close enough to the enemy to limit or eliminate many airstrikes, but my Walkers and Rangers will be sitting relatively unprotected.

[Garradh]

star cannons for 6 tl str 6 ap2 shots would ruin a terminator squads day

That they would! I am mentally preferring Scatter Lasers just for the weight of fire, but if the meta at my store was more Sv2+ heavy that's a very good idea.

[G00dySmiley]

ani air is rough, the scatters can help by tl other shots on wraithlors, you could try to cut 100 points to get a guad gun,

i question the point sspent on crystal targeting matrix on wave serpant for example as will it ever be worth 25 points to fire a scatter laser once on flat out move on first list, the new one though.. maybe cut one war walker and one wraithguard

edit-

or cut 2 wraithguard from one group and 1 from another aong with 1 dire avenger that is enough points for aegis and quadgun, then set the dire avengers behind it near an objective

[Garradh]

I agree that 25 pts was too much for CTM, so I dropped it for the second list. I'm not a big fan of Aegis lines when I can scrape up 25 more points and get a Bastion.

Now with the Iyanden supplement coming out, I'll have to see the changes there. Two spiritseers are better than one, and I think it would be easy to dump some wargear to squeeze a second SS in. Dropping the Rangers and the Firesaber would give me 90 points to buy a 70-pt Spiritseer and 20 points of extra fun laying around (Shuriken Cannons on the Bikes and Wave Serpent come to mind).

[Garradh]

I was able to get a game in this weekend:

Eldrad
Spiritseerx2 (Iyanden Shadow Council)

10x Wraithguard
10x Wraithguard
8x Dire Avengers inc. Exarch with PW/SS in a Wave Serpent w/TL Scatter Lasers and ShuriCannon
3x Jetbikes, one with ShuriCannon

3x War Walkers with 2 Scatter Lasers each
2x Wraithlords, Scatter/Lance, Sword and 2 flamers each

Fighting against a Draigoball, I was more than a bit nervous. It was a bit of a grudge match against the GK player who had gotten sick of losing Justicars every time he wanted to cast Hammerhand, and without the Eldar psychic defense I expected my Wraithguard to go down rather quickly.

Opponent's list was (approx):
Draigo
5 Paladins w/Halberds and 2 Psycannons

2x 10 man Power Armor squads, with Psycannons
2x Razorbacks with TL H Bolters

2x Psyfleman Dreads

1 Dreadknight, bare bones

1 Stormraven, TL AssCannons and Typhoon ML

Everything that could take Psy ammo had it. We played The Relic mission.

Turn 1 went well for me, destroying both Razorbacks even though he had hid most of his army in cover. A Psyfledread damaged one of my war walkers, otherwise he remained mostly in cover.

Turn 2 I advanced a phalanx of the psykers, Wraithguard, and Wraithlords toward the objective. Shooting was largely ineffective, but I put Prescience/Guide on my two Wraithguard squads in anticipation of him swooping the Pally-filled Stormraven up to the phalanx. He promptly did, while his psyfledreads killed two War Walkers and a few Wraithguard. It should be noted that I got the runes of battle power which could give one of my Wraith squads +1 to their armor, since that made a tough unit much, much tougher. The other unit was badly cut up by Psyfle, infantry, and Stormraven fire.

Oddly he was keeping his distance, when the Grey Knights could have done quite well against my Wraithguard in close combat. He even kept his Dreadknight back in fear of losing it quickly to Wraithguard fire.

On the top of 3 I spent both Wraithguard units shooting at his front-and-center Stormraven, destroying it with rerollable snap fire. Two Paladins were killed and Draigo was wounded in the crash, and I spent most of the rest of my firepower attempting to cut up the Paladins who were dangerously close to charge range of my larger, Eldrad-backed Wraith unit. I pulled my damaged Wraith unit back and surged a Wraithlord forward in case he did get a charge off on the large Wraith unit. At this time I also realized he was ignoring my Wave Serpent completely, so I dropped the shields and went for full offensive fire with it, starting to take a toll on his Strike squads.

Inexplicably, he didn't advance the Paladin ball. All of his firepower went at my advancing Wraithlord, killing it, and then switched to the weakened Wraithguard unit, knocking it down to two Guard and a wounded Spiritseer.

With that opportunity missed, the game started turning against him. Turn 4 saw the rest of the Paladins killed by wraithcannons and a charging Wraithlord, whom I hoped to use as bait to keep him away from the objective. With the loss of the Draigoball it was clear the breeze had slipped from my opponent's sails. To make matters worse, while he did kill the second wraithlord handily with his dreadknight, none of his other shooting proved to be effective. Still, he had one and a half Strike squads and two fully effective Dreadknights on the board, and I knew I had to switch to winning the game or risk a large turnaround.

On Turn 5 I rushed my Jetbikes forward to grab the objective, doubting they could hold it but knowing it would keep him from claiming it in the bottom of 5. The remaining Wraithguard and Spiritseer from the shot-up squad, accompanied by the War Walker, charged his depleted squad to hopefully deny their shooting being added to the pain my Bikes would feel, while the stronger Wraithguard squad advanced to pick up the relic when my bikes lost it. It would prove unnecessary - while my bikes were easily dispatched in a charge, his squad couldn't pick up the relic until his next movement phase, and with a roll of 2 the game ended at the bottom of 5. Final score was 2-0 (Slay the Warlord and First Blood).

The game was my second with Eldar and I forgot a few rules, especially marking targets with my Spiritseers. That was offset by him doing nothing with Draigo for a round. Eldrad did an outstanding job for me, keeping my Wraith units twin-linked when necessary with the Prescience/Guide combo, and getting off two successful Mind Wars that killed a paladin and the Dreadknight. My Dire Avengers successfull fulfilled their job of sampling various snack cakes in the back of the Wave Serpent, as they seemed to do throughout 5th Edition.

I was expecting a brutal HtH slug-fest against one of the few armies that can fight Wraith units well and take a beating in return. Instead my opponent played the long range game, one I felt unravelled as he threw his best close combat units in piecemeal so my shooting could deal with them individually. I never had to make target priority choices throughout the game - every turn I knew exactly what I needed to shoot at. Turn 1 was "the only things in LoS" as was Turn 2. Turn 3 was the Stormraven, Turn 4 was the Draigoball, and Turn 5 would have been the Dreadknight had it not been for Eldrad's lucky Mind War kill. I fear my next match-up against this player after he has had a chance to think through his mistakes!

[Angelofblades]

Enjoying the test games and the list evolution. Keep it up!

[rle68]

your anti air is staring you in the face.. twin scatter laser war walkers... 3 of them pump out 24 shots a turn cast guide on them and voila you will shoot down a flyer per turn... i have tried it and shot down 3 flyers so far... it also works not quite as effective with scatter bright lance combo.. its a big hammer and nails effect...

now for some other ideas on this list.. your wasting your wraith guards ability. 5 man squads instead of 10 get a "wraithserpent" to carry them around in.. since the new dex makes "wraithserpents" really bad ***.. you get them where you need them faster and get to kill other stuff

my partial list

3 wraith guard with wave serpents bright lances hollo field
spirit seer

2 wind rider squads with each upgrade to shuriken cannon

far seer on jet bike singing spear

3 war walkers 2 scatter lasers but im testing scatter/ bright lance

1fire dragon squad with wave serpent scatter lasers under slung shuriken cannon
exarch fire pike fast shot

the list this is for is for a 1776 event i have a few points left over not sure maybe another war walker

[Garradh]

A very well-rounded list, rle68. This game my Wraithguard ended up playing Guide-backed AAA!

Next evolution is "to Eldrad or not to Eldrad." I feel guilty for playing him, even if he's a counts-as Bonesinger.

[rle68]

A very well-rounded list, rle68. This game my Wraithguard ended up playing Guide-backed AAA!

Next evolution is "to Eldrad or not to Eldrad." I feel guilty for playing him, even if he's a counts-as Bonesinger.

Thanks

i know the feeling i have a very well painted eldrad probably the best model i have ever painted or ever will.. and to not use him sickens me

lucky for me i have 2 of the bone singer models im using one as a sprirt seer the other farseer on foot with singing spear added

[Garradh]

If I go with a Farseer, I think I will take the Gift of Asuryan that allows Wraithguard to act in challenges rather than risk my valuable Farseer. That frees up about 90 points, so I'm kicking around taking a small group of Howling Banshees to sit behind the phalanx as a counterattack unit. That is very tentative though, designed to offer some additional protection to my heavies when I might change my mind and go for more anti-Horde shooting like Swooping Hawks.

At this point I just want to play one of those two units to prove that the codex's "weak" units are still useful, I think. Being curmudgeonly.

PLEASE offer better suggestions for 90 points worth of killy (no fortifications!)

[eris]

Could you minimise the DA squad, lose the jetbikes and then afford to pick up a 2nd scatter serpent with a 5man da squad in it?

[Garradh]

Could you minimise the DA squad, lose the jetbikes and then afford to pick up a 2nd scatter serpent with a 5man da squad in it?

Not a bad idea . . . fortunately the jetbikes aren't bought yet! I'll roll it around in my head. Jetbikes have won a LOT of games for me over the last two editions running for last-turn objective grabs/contests.

[eris]

True, their movement range is awesome. I guess the other alternative would be to drop to 2 lots of 9 wraithguard to get that extra serpent in. Not a massive change to teh power of each squad, but it depends how much of a completionist you are. ;)

[Garradh]

Dropping the Exarch in the DA squad to a regular aspect warrior, dropping the Shuricannon from the bikes, and making the Eldrad-to-farseer change gives me 130 points - enough for another Wave Serpent, even if it runs around a bit empty. Seems like a good compromise of firepower vs DA survivability with the exarch/shield. I'll take that firepower!

New List:

HQ - Farseer with Runes of Witnessing
HQ - 2x Spiritseer

Troops - 10x Wraithguard, Wraithcannons, Wave Serpent with TL Scatter Lasers and Shuricannon
Troops - 10x Wraithguard, Wraithcannons
Troops - 8x Dire Avengers, Wave Serpent with TL Scatter Lasers and Shuricannon
Troops - 3x Windrider Jetbikes

HS - 3x War Walkers with 2x Scatter Lasers
HS - Wraithlord with Scatter Laser, Sword, Bright Lance, 2x Flamers
HS - Wraithlord with Scatter Laser, Sword, Bright Lance, 2x Flamers

Dire Avengers usually ride around to grab and hold an objective, but I suppose they could provide boots-on-the-ground support for horde armies for extra killing power as well.

[Garradh]

Got a game in this weekend vs Tyranids using the list above.

Opponent's list was (iirc)
Swarmlord w/one tyrant guard (Swarmlord got Endurance and Iron Arm for psychic powers - eek!)
Flyrant w/two deathspitters

2 Venomthropes
5 Ymgarl Genestealers
3 Hive Guard
2x10 Termagants
2 Tervigons with Toxin Sacs and some psychic powers
2 Trygons

The game was a rematch against my opponent from the first experiment with my Eldar army and the third time he had fought against a Wraith army. He deployed excellently - the mission was The Relic and he built a phalanx to match my own Wraith phalanx. I made two key mistakes in deployment - my phalanx was flanked by two pieces of area terrain perfect for the Ymgarls, so I tried to occupy them with my War Walkers and my Dire Avengers. Realizing (too late) that the war walkers were now in range of his Hive Guard and the DAs couldn't possibly occupy enough of the terrain to keep the Ymgarls from coming out, I withdrew them to safe(r) positions. It didn't matter - the War Walkers were still under the Hive Guard's guns and I ended up losing one with one damaged before they drew out of range. One Tervigon pooped out, and in general he advanced his growing phalanx toward my own.

In my return fire, the Wraithguard killed a Trygon, but the rest of his units were behind a wall of spawned Termagants. I risked being swamped by Termagants if I concentrated on the heavies, whereas Guided/Prescienced overwatches had a habit of making bigger gribblies disappear. Concentrating on the Termagants, I wiped out the lead units and put some wounds on one of his Tervigons.

In his turn 2 the Ymgarls appeared and assaulted my badly-placed Dire Avengers, who broke and fled off the board. The ymgarls were able to consolidate deeper into cover where they could begin rolling up the flank of my phalanx the next turn. The Flyrant also appeared and destroyed my two remaining War Walkers in close combat, then turned to threaten a Wave Serpent in an overwatching firing position. His second Tervigon pooped out as well, a blessing as his second wave of Termagants hit my line. His second Trygon also assaulted one of my Wraithguard units. With lucky dice rolling I survived the poisoned Termagant attacks but lost four to the Trygon. My other Wraithguard squad was tied down by termagants, again for no losses.

My assault phase was fortunate - my full squad squashed the bugs attacking it with some help from its supporting Wraithlord, while my second Wraithlord, helped by a Spiritseer and my Farseer, killed the Trygon before it could attack again. Unfortunately that meant half my phalanx was tied up in combat with two Termagants, leaving it dangerously open to attacks from the Swarmlord, Venomthropes, and Tervigons, as well as the flanking Ymgarls (which had been reduced to two models during my shooting, thanks second Serpent). I also grabbed the objective with my bikes, knowing full well they would die but hoping to buy time since he would not be able to grab the objective with his Tervigon and then hide behind his line of Termagants. They died gloriously, accomplishing their mission.

His turn 3 was a bloody mess of assaults as the beleagured Wraithguard phalanx and supporting Wraithlords held off the third wave of Tyranids. His Flyrant killed one of my Wave Serpents in melee, a Wraithlord was killed by his charging Swarmlord, and the understrength Wraithguard squad was attacked by the Ymgarls, reducing it by a few more models. My full-strength Wraithguard were charged by a wounded Tervigon for one loss, but they finished off the Termagants that kept them tied down.

My turn 3 was entirely dealing with his attacks. My remaining Wave Serpent shot his Flyrant for two wounds, otherwise it was Wraiths killing bugs. My surviving Wraithlord charged his Tervigon, reducing the beast to one wound. The worst part was Shadows causing three Perils attacks, one on each psyker, and even my Runes of Witnessing didn't protect my Farseer. This was key as it shut down my Spiritseers for the rest of the game - I could still cast Prescience on one unit per turn (the beleagured and understrength Wraithguard) without risking a dead Farseer, and got Guide off as well, but that was it.

Turn 4 was down to brass tacks. His Flyrant attacked my now-free large Wraithguard squad while the Swarmlord killed my remaining Wraithlord, saving his Tervigon. The Flyrant then made the mistake of charging the Wraithguard, who killed it with Guided overwatch. The weakened Wraithguard, now away from the action, killed the remaining Ymgarl 'stealers and the two Termagants still tying them up.

Both of my Wraithguard, though damaged, were now free. With the Swarmlord literally standing on top of the objective, boosted to S/T9, It Will Not Die, Eternal Warrior, and with a FNP, I knew I wasn't going to shift it. I chose instead to run my Farseer, Spiritseer and remaining two Wraithguard toward his objective while my stronger Wraithguard squad killed his Tervigon and threatened the objective. Now he had no scoring units to claim the objective, but that was stalemated by my remaining troops being unlikely to kill his Swarmlord.

At that point it was a 1-0 game. I had First Blood, both Warlords were alive, and he had no scoring units. If he went for Slay the Warlord, I could grab the objective. If he didn't and killed the closer Wraithguard unit, I could go for Linebreaker and win 2-0. Ultimately he did the latter - the remaining Hive Guard tried to gun down my small Wraith/commander squad of four models but only killed one of my two remaining Wraithguard in that squad, and the Swarmlord tore apart my large Wraithguard squad, meaning nobody would get the objective. As the game moved into Turn 6 my surviving Wave Serpent killed his surviving Hive Guard and his Swarmlord, rehealed to full health and again at S/T9, finished my large Wraithguard squad. With only six models left on the board (Swarmlord, Tyrant Guard, Farseer, Spiritseer, one Wraithguard and a Wave Serpent) I won the game 2-0 with First Blood and Linebreaker.

[Garradh]

A post-game analysis really showed where I hamstringed myself in deployment, messing up with the War Walkers and Dire Avengers, sacrificing both early when it might not have been necessary - five Ymgarls weren't going to do a significant amount of damage to a squad of Wraithguard.

I remain convinced that Wraithcannons are the best armament for Wraithguard - the Distort rule, along with S10, trumps any other build. I play 10-man Wraithguard units because when I point their guns at something, that something disappears, especially with Guide/Prescience.

This game saw my psychic enhancement shut down by Shadow of the Warp, so it was hard to balance the loss of Eldrad compared to a regular Farseer. He received Mind War as his third power, which, coupled with Horrify, did a lot of wounds to a Trygon on Turn 1 (sadly FNP negated all but one of the eight wounds Mind War did throughout the game!) but after that was less useful and not worth casting compared to Guide/Prescience.

In hindsight I should have deployed the Dire Avengers, with the Farseer, behind the phalanx. They could have plugged the hole that appeared in the phalanx mid-game, or hung back so the Farseer could keep casting outside of the Shadow.

Outstanding game, I will try this same list again against Marines or Orks in the near future.

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

would like to hear how your game went against orks or marines. wondering if you've found that you have to run your wraithguard at 10? Or if you've thought about lowering the unit sizes slightly to get additional bodies and toys?

[Garradh]

I would love to get in some games vs Marines or Orks with the new Eldar codex. Aside from the GK/Draigoball game it's been a steady litany of practically identical Tyranid armies, which really doesn't test the list.

As for 10-man Wraithguard, I enjoy the weight of fire and survivability of the larger units. Practically guaranteeing a 6 vs monstrous creatures, getting 2-3 (guided) Overwatch hits on a charge, having the extra bodies in assault, it all adds up. MSU has never fit my playstyle well, since 3rd Ed. I've considered changing a few things around to pick up 5 WraithAxes to be a more dedicated bodyguard for my Farseer and give the phalanx a little bit more melee counterattacking power.

I have to agree, though, the list needs more games against varied opponents.

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

Oh i'm sorry i didn't mean to make you think i was talking msu i despise msu unless you playing under 1000 points maybe 1250 at max. but for your list what i mean was moving towards unit sizes closer to 7-8. You're at most losing 2-3 guys from your list but those points can be spent on additional bodies elsewhere or even another unit of bikes. that was where i was leaning towards. while i understand the bike squad at 3 i just don't know how effective they will be unless you can almost guarantee you're going 2nd and even then i just worry that your opponents will squish them well before that turn.

And ya playing nids won't really help you tell what your list needs tweak wise. would say one of the best armies i think to try your luck against would be dark eldar. my reason is this. Dark eldar are the perect spoiler army in 6th edition. their abilities and play style are just not duplicated via any other army. i believe if you make a list that can deal with dark eldar and still beat nids then you should easily have a list that can compete with everythign from GK to orks to other eldar and flavors of sm.

[Deathboon]

Honestly against nids a 10 wraith objective holder with the wraith flamer thing would be just brutal, put a model with fortune and one with conceal in the mix and force them to assault you, the overwatch will be staggeringly effective.

[Garradh]

Got in a game, again against a Draigoball-style GK army. Two objectives, long table deployment. The GKs had no speed except a jump-packing Dreadknight. I was able to engage and destroy his two Psyfledreads early - outflanking WWs tagged one and the other was killed by a bit of lucky glancing from a Wave Serpent.

The game played against the GK player from the start, almost entirely because of Wave Serpent fear/propaganda. He was so concerned with killing the two Wave Serpents that he was afraid to move his power-armored troops forward, and tried to throw his Dreadknight at the Serpents while ignoring the 10-man Wraithguard that walked up to it and delivered a painless coup-de-grace.

I credit this game entirely to Wave Serpent fear. I think i popped a shield to fire once, the rest of the time I just hid them in cover and let my opponent expend his psyfledreads trying to kill them with a 4+ cover save. After two Eldar shooting turns I asked him if he wished to concede and he did.

Next week I'm playing against a more traditional Aspect Eldar list with a lot of the goodies I wish I had in my list but don't (Wraithknight, Solitaire Autarch, Warp Spiders, and Fire Prisms, oh my!), really looking forward to a change of pace!

[Garradh]

I have made one tactical change - instead of rolling twice on the Runes of Fate and taking Primaris from Divination for my Farseer I am routinely rolling twice on Divination and taking the Runes primaris power. Since half the Eldar powers require two force points, I really can't use them. Two Divination powers and Guide is more routinely useful.

[Angelofblades]

Typically, I roll once and see if I got anything good, Ie really Doom. If I get Doom, then I'll get guide and prescience. If I didn't get doom on the first roll, I'll roll twice on Divination. But I will admit that I've been rolling twice on divination more often.

[Defenestratus]

Has anyone been able to use Wraithblades effectively? I am painting up a unit of 10 right now and I really want them to work but I just haven't been able to yet in the few games I've played. They just are too slow to get into combat - units run away from them.

[Dave Mcturk]

loving my wraithblades, spiritseer gets them conceal so they are pretty survivable unless you are on a billiard table... with luck you can enhance their save with another power... but if not they still soak up some damage and scare enemy units off your position, finding superwraith a bit pricy at 42pts ! dont forget to spirit mark and reroll those 1's.

thinkyou have to use them pretty aggressively so try and set up terrain to give them a 'path' ... bit harder if you are on pre-gen terrain

and they look awesome !

[Garradh]

I see their potential but I shy away from them because of their lack of ranged power and their overall small number of attacks. On paper they're awesome - a S6+ T6 assault model with a 3+(+) save that can be enhanced by a variety of psychic abilities. You can always run them except on the turn you are assaulting, so they have some hustle across the board, but they are also going to draw a lot of firepower. With the axe/shield option I find their single attack debilitating unless they are fighting a monstrous creature. With the swords option they aren't a bad unit.

It honestly depends on their psychic support. A Farseer giving them Fortune or Prescience, a Spiritseer giving them, honestly, just about any buff, makes them a lot better.

I've thought about squeezing five axe/shield Wraiths into my list to act as a Farseer bodyguard or to stick in a Wave Serpent, but pound for pound there's not much that can compete with S10 AP2 Distort shooting. And with Guide/Prescience, it's amazing how many combats you win in Overwatch with these big guys against the units that are best at killing them.

[Garradh]

Woohoo first loss! Iyanden vs Iyanden throwdown!

Opponent's list was (roughly)

Spiritseer
Solitaire Autarch

5 Avengers in SL Serpent
10 Guardians w/SC in SL Serpent
10 Storm Guardians w/flamer and fustion in SL Serpent
2x Fire Prisms
3x Jetbikes
6x Warp Spiders
Crimson Hunter
Wraithknight with Suncannon/Shield (warlord)

Game was long table for Kill Points. Terrain was odd in that before we rolled anything the table was very laterally hard to move across due to terrain setup. At the edge of my deployment zone was a steep hill and a large woods so I started in good cover but also in difficult terrain. That was fine as I was going second. War walkers were kept in outflanking reserve.

His first turn of shooting was heavy as expected, but rolling proved to be one-sided. I hate blaming the dice, so I won't. Suffice it to say I wasn't as well-protected as I imagined and lost 3/4 of my Wraithguard, as well as my Farseer and a Spiritseer, to shooting. Knowing the going would be very rough without the bulk of my infantry, I advanced the remaining Wraithguard as quickly as I could, slowed by the difficult terrain. My opponent had cockily put his Solitaire out in charge range, so I charged with my larger unit of Wraithguard and killed him. My empty Serpent sat back and fired on a Prism, getting a hull point. The rest of my ranged shooting attempted, vainly, to get the third hull point on a Wave Serpent after my other Serpent knocked two hull points off of it. Oh holofields!

His Crimson Hunter came in from reserve on T2 but ineffectively shot at a Serpent, and he forgot about his Warp Spiders completely so we designated them "in reserve". The rest of his army knocked me down to a pair of Wraithguards accompanied by my surviving Spiritseer. I brought in the war walkers who destroyed a Wave Serpent, and killed his damaged Serpent with one of my own as it advanced with Dire Avengers in its belly - I was going to need every shot I could get, and soon.

Turn 3 continued the steady degradation of my army. Without the big block of Wraithguard to absorb his shooting, it was imply an attrition game I couldn't win. His Warp Spiders annihilated my walkers (how hard is it to make a 5+ save?), my Serpents took some more hits, a Wraithlord was wounded and one of my bikes was killed despite a ridiculous cover save. However by that point I was up and running, destroying the last of his Serpents and nearly wiping out the Avengers on it, while my own Avengers cut up his Storm Guardians and his Spiritseer. In Turn 4 my Avengers got shot down to a single model, and we had a great Avenger-vs-Avenger fight that saw my charging model win after failing to hit in shooting. My Wraithguard finally managed to roll a saving throw against his Warp Spiders, whom they then charged, broke, and annihilated. As the game wrapped up my counterattack petered out for lack of models, while his Knight killed both my Wraithlords (I5!) and my last biker beat a hasty retreat after losing his battle-buddy. My remaining serpents were wrecked and his surviving Guardians shot my last four infantry models off the board.

In all it was a fun game that started disastrously but proved the tenacity of Eldar (on both sides of the board). I walked away realizing I forgot "Look Out Sir" which could have kept my Farseer alive and might have helped keep the score a bit more even, since First Blood and Slay the Warlord both got chalked up with his death. It showed how reliant my army is on the Wraithguard Phalanx and now I'm checking options to make it more resilient. In truth there was no way to avoid rolling 1s, and I rolled a lot of 1s.

I am considering some very small changes, dropping a Wraithguard and a Dire Avenger saves me 45 points which I can spend on holofields for my Wave Serpents (who haven't "needed" them, even in this game my Serpents survived an amazing amount of shooting for their points). That gives me fifteen points to play with, maybe the helmet that allows automatic Look Out Sir rolls and lets a Wraithguard fight as a champion in melee.

I am also starting to wonder if I have too much psychic support. Dropping a spiritseer and the farseer would free up 185 points of killing power . . . decisions decisions!

One final decision - I am switching one of my Wraithlords to double bright lance (the other is already modeled with a scatter laser). The added antitank power keeps coming up as a need in the games I am playing.

[Garradh]

Farseer w/Helm of Xinthillion and Singing Spear
Spiritseer x2

10x Wraithguard
9x Wraithguard with a Wave Serpent with TL Scatter Lasers, ShuriCannon and Holofields
7x Dire Avengers in a Wave Serpent with TL Scatter Lasers, ShuriCannon and Holofields
3x Guardian Jetbikes w/ShuriCannon

3x War Walkers with 2 Scatter Lasers each
Wraithlord with Scatter/Lance, Sword and 2 flamers
Wraithlord with 2 Bright Lances, Sword and 2 flamers

New list

[Dave Mcturk]

the trouble under the brand new codex is that although wraith units are cheaper and better only axe boys get an invulnerable save... [damn those ap 2 weapons ]

if you must go for an open advance phalanx try using the DE baron and a spirit seer which should get you a 4+ cover save...
another option ive tried with some success is Illic... who comes with built in shrouded...

i play a lot of DE opponents so never had much joy with wraithlords ! but in a series of games they MAY get their points back...

assume its a typo but at 1850 you only get two HQ's ?

[Garradh]

the trouble under the brand new codex is that although wraith units are cheaper and better only axe boys get an invulnerable save... [damn those ap 2 weapons ]

if you must go for an open advance phalanx try using the DE baron and a spirit seer which should get you a 4+ cover save...
another option ive tried with some success is Illic... who comes with built in shrouded...

i play a lot of DE opponents so never had much joy with wraithlords ! but in a series of games they MAY get their points back...

assume its a typo but at 1850 you only get two HQ's ?

Iyanden list, 1-5 Spiritseers is one HQ. Veil of Twilight rewards you for playing your Wraith units very aggressively and in a relatively tight group. An opponent can throw their heavy firepower at the Wraithguard and ignore the Wraithlords, or they can throw their high-S low-AP weapons at the Wraithlords and deal with the Wraithguards getting across the board.

I haven't played against DE yet and I would love to. Tau will also be problematic. I honestly don't think I would bother taking this list to a tournament . . . maybe after further revision and more experience.

[Dave Mcturk]

mmm... might have to get the supplement... right con that its not all in one codex !

[Dave Mcturk]

i mean at 40 odd points for a warlock and 50 odd on a bike.. a 70 pts 2 wound spiritseer is a bargain... and they are ld9... so spells might even work !

[Garradh]

Two games this weekend, both against GKs, both one-sided roflstomps. I'm hoping the meta at my FLGS shifts soon, Draigoballs run by players terrified of Wave Serpents aren't much of a challenge. Both games had a Lucky Wraithlord kill . . . one Lucky Wraithlord blew up a Stormraven with Draigo inside, another Lucky Wraithlord blew up a Land Raider with Draigo inside. Oh well. The new SM book will be out soon and that should present some unique challenges to a Wraith army.

[Learn2Eel]

I can't believe people are using Draigoballs still!

Nice list by the way, I've just started up my own one and have been looking all over at army lists - including yours :) - to see how people run Wraith armies these days. I'm planning on doing a good old fashioned wraithwall list at first, but I'll probably transition into Serpent Wraiths as I build more mechdar army up.

[Garradh]

Many games later, I question how much I need . . . some Waveserpent Upgrades! The WS I buy for one of my Wraithguard units (who can't actually ride in it, wooo options) acts as a great gunboat. Since my army is so offense-oriented, it's nice to have one model sit in the back and blast away at the enemy with all that S6 and S7 goodness. However, in a target-rich environment where antitank is going toward my Wraithlords and Wraithguard, it doesn't take that many shots.

I'm thinking of dropping its Holo-fields and possibly its shuriken cannon. This has me wondering where else I can shave combat-ineffective points to return my #20 Wraithguard and #8 Dire Avenger back into the game.

Speaking of #8 Dire Avenger, these guys don't see a lot of board time. I might switch them over to be 10 guardians (91 pts vs 80 pts) . . . . thoughts?

[Dave Mcturk]

beginning to hate the fact that axe-guard only get 1 measly attack at In1.... looks like they mite be getting their guns back ! ;)

[Dave Mcturk]

if you have spare HS slots free... 3 reapers are only 90pts and they can pull a Serpent as DT...

[Garradh]

if you have spare HS slots free... 3 reapers are only 90pts and they can pull a Serpent as DT...

War walker squadron and 2 Wraithlords. WWs might get swapped for Hornets, waiting to get my hands on rules for their new cost. 12 Pulse Laser shots . . . mmm. Word on the street is 240 points.