WraithGuard Loadout?

[Sonikgav]

Im after some opinions on the Wraiths, both Guards and Blades and how theyre most effective since im Running a Ghost Warrior list with the new Codex.

As it stands im using 2x 10 Axe/Shield Blades (with Spiritseer in each) and 2x 5 Scythe Guard in Wave Serpents.

What im kinda worried about is the fact I cant fit any Wraith Cannons into my list. Despite the short range a S10 infantry gun is pretty special.

The Sword build for Wraithblades doesn't interest me if im honest. The inv save is too much of an improvement to ignore with the axe and the Scythes, though expebsive, are brutal even in small numbers. Great Serpent Assault units and rediculously good at holding objectives.

Any thoughts??

[Anggul]

I have to say only having one attack really, really puts me off Wraithblades with Axes. They'll slowly whittle down an enemy unit, by which point the game will likely be over. That's a lot of points to accomplish not much at all. I just don't understand why they only have one attack. Wraithguard just seem so much better than Wraithblades to me.

[Defenestratus]

I'm torn over the swords vs axes loadout. Str 6Ap3 @ I5 in combat is no slouch, and given some luck, could be effective vs terminators (spiritseer).

On ther other hand, the axes give you automatic AP2 and an invulnerable save - BUT you lose I5 and an extra attack.

Personally I think that perhaps the swords have a better upside than down considering the primaris power is conceal.

Plus the models are the boss.

[Sonikgav]

Hmm I hadnt considered the Psyker abilities in there too. I kinda intended them to be my answer to Terminators but perhaps a unit of each would work instead...

[Defenestratus]

Hmm I hadnt considered the Psyker abilities in there too. I kinda intended them to be my answer to Terminators but perhaps a unit of each would work instead...

If you're already using a bunch of wraithscythes then do you really need more close range/close combat anti-terminator?

[Deadlift]

Yep, I think with Spirit seers allowing Wraith units within 12" to re-roll 1s to hit against marked units, that may swing it towards axes for me, plus they look cool. Never know the Iyanden supplement may make these guys even better.

[IronZOGZ]

Sonik - I feel your pain. The way I'm trying to think about it (short of just running one squad of everything) is: what do I not have an answer for? My base Ulthwe build is pretty rounded out -

2 Farseers or 1 Seer + Maugan Ra
6 Warlocks (3 of which go to Guardian squads)
<---------------- Insert new Wraith Unit Here (just because I must have some)
3 x 15 Guardians, 2 with Bright Lance Platform and 1 with Scatter Laser
3 War Walkers with S. Laser + Starcannon
5 Reapers w/ both missile types (holy amazing buff for the same price, Batman!)
Wraithlord with BL + Ghostglaive

What problem do I need to solve?! Currently, it looks like my list is missing a soak/protect combat answer for the Seers and Squishies should some Deepstriking Terminators or Black Mace Flying Demon Princes come knocking. It probably isn't safe to assume 5 Wraithguad with Cannons will kill a squad and/or MC with one volley, and they/it butchers lesser (read: any - black mace demon princes are retarded) models in combat and usually has wings for speed.

It's not safe to rely on rolling Fortune (for the Wraithnouns w/o their own save) or the Warlock -1 AS power (specifically for Wraithswords against 2+ armour) so it seems giving them their own protection and a means to punch armour is the safest bet from my side. I have a tank answer, so while nice, the Cannon isn't necessary for that problem either. Even with 1 Atk, it's better that they be protected and if my Seers can support them, great. If not, they won't auto-die.

Thoughts?

[Sonikgav]

Daemon Princes, or any Monstrous creature based on close combat is shut down by WraithScythes. An AP2 Wall of Death with an instant Death chance? Ive tested it. Flying Tyrants, Bloodthirsters, Daemon Princes, Combat Wraithknights.... all destroyed by Wraithscythe overwatch.

The inv save on the Blades is more to protect from Range on the approach.

[IronZOGZ]

Daemon Princes, or any Monstrous creature based on close combat is shut down by WraithScythes. An AP2 Wall of Death with an instant Death chance? Ive tested it. Flying Tyrants, Bloodthirsters, Daemon Princes, Combat Wraithknights.... all destroyed by Wraithscythe overwatch.

The inv save on the Blades is more to protect from Range on the approach.


I would be curious to do the math on the Wall of Death scenario.

5 Wraithscythes with D3 overwatch hits per guy - a low of 5 and a high of 15 (we'll do the math with 10).

10 auto hit with a strength of 4 - MC toughness ranges from 4 to 6 against non-Wraithlords, so we'll use 5 (Daemon Prince). Needing 5's to wound, you will wound 3.33 times, and 1.66 of those is an Instant Death. With a 5++ (most of the time) he fails his save 66% of the time.

I don't know how to do the math to put together the odds of the ID wound and his save failing corresponding...

Either way - the biggest problem with this theory is that the DP is assaulting your Wraiths, which he will never do if he can mulch some Guardians or Dark Reapers. He will just ignore them. I completely agree that the shields have massive benefits against shooting, but the Wraiths will also need to be fairly aggressive to cover your backfield. Since Banshees are retarded in this book (seriously, who the **** would charge Banshees instead of just shooting them? With a B. Mask and Counter-attack? Lulz bad design.) we need a different unit back there.

[Sonikgav]

Well take into account im planning a Ghost Warrior list. I havent considered Guardians etc because apart from the Spiritseers my entire army is a Wraith construct of some sort.

[IronZOGZ]

Well then - bring on the MC's! If you're going all Wraithnouns, I would do Scythes and Axes primary, with a single unit (5) of "Heavy Support" Cannons just in case something got past the Lord(s?) and Knight(s?).

The swords look ****ing cool though.

[Sonikgav]

As it stands its...

2x 10 Axe Blades walking with the Spiritseers
2x 5 Scytheguards in a WaveSerpent
2 Wraithlords with Laser/Lance + Sword

All in 1800 points.

Its small, but its tough.

[Deadlift]

As it stands its...

2x 10 Axe Blades walking with the Spiritseers
2x 5 Scytheguards in a WaveSerpent
2 Wraithlords with Laser/Lance + Sword


All in 1800 points.

Its small, but its tough.

That's 32 models :). I like it.

[LittleMen]

If you're already using a bunch of wraithscythes then do you really need more close range/close combat anti-terminator?

Defenestratus,
I see Wraithblades are listed as I4, am I missing a special rule (I hope)?

Gah, I can't decide which weapons to glue on! At least they both look cool.

[Sonikgav]

That's 32 models :). I like it.

36, you didnt count the Transports and Spiritseers ;-)

But yea its possibly the tiniest army ive fielded. Gonna make a cool little show army. Just hope its gonna actually work on the table.

[Deadlift]

36, you didnt count the Transports and Spiritseers ;-)

But yea its possibly the tiniest army ive fielded. Gonna make a cool little show army. Just hope its gonna actually work on the table.

Lol, I'm sure it can, either way it will look awesome :) which for me is a win anyway.

[Xenith]

the biggest problem with this theory is that the DP is assaulting your Wraiths, which he will never do if he can mulch some Guardians or Dark Reapers. He will just ignore them.
Combine D Scythe WG with a serpent and drop them on a midfield objective. Your opponent can no longer ignore them.

[DarkLink]

I have to say only having one attack really, really puts me off Wraithblades with Axes.

Yeah, not impressed with Wraithblades.


36, you didnt count the Transports and Spiritseers ;-)

But yea its possibly the tiniest army ive fielded. Gonna make a cool little show army. Just hope its gonna actually work on the table.

I took an 18 model army to a 1750pt tournament. And if I'd've killed one more model I would have tabled my third opponent and won the tournament.

[Sigil]

I took an 18 model army to a 1750pt tournament. And if I'd've killed one more model I would have tabled my third opponent and won the tournament.

Sorry to derail slightly, as a complete noob to the gaming side of 40k, can I ask the army and composition on this? Grey Knights I'm guessing. Just curious, as I'm extremely time poor at the moment and the less models the better!

Have just picked up a box of the wraithguard, also wondering what the best load out would be...

[Xenith]

Have just picked up a box of the wraithguard, also wondering what the best load out would be...

Depends entirely on the points and what else is in the army. If you have no fire dragons, go with wraithcannons. I personally really like the look of the D Scythes, but it puts the point cost up by a lot.

[Sonikgav]

Combine D Scythe WG with a serpent and drop them on a midfield objective. Your opponent can no longer ignore them.

Thats my entire plan. Either that or blitzing up the field to sit on their objectives :D

One thing i REALLY like about the Scythes is that they negate the biggest bane of my tournament existence. ******* Aegis Lines!

Expect to see the rise of Skyshields if Scythe lists become popular ;)

[LittleMen]

I am also trying to figure out how to make Wraithblades work. I was thinking maybe 10 with swords and a spiritseer with the Mantle of the Laughing God. That would give them a 2+ cover save when he gets conceal off. There is a good chance of his other power being something helpful also. Another possible idea is to stick an Autarch with a Banshee mask with them so they will always get the initiative on the charge (unless there is cover.) Anyone else have ideas? Strangely enough, I think having the stooty onese in transports and the assaulty ones on foot is the way to go.

Edit: Oh balls, the Mantle makes you lose the independent character rule, nevermind. Anyone else have ideas.