I Don't think Eldrad should be alive.

[MrBo]

I am a long time eldar collector/player. I own over 7000 points of personally painted Ulthwe craftworld.
I am sure many of you have larger armies, i only state it so that you understand i have a long term vested interest in my army.

To tell the truth though, if "rumors" and gw's own site are correct, Eldrad never sacrificed himself to save us all. An entire summers' official campaign (and the promises of it impacting current fluff) are for naught.
I would have like to have seen some form of a nod towards 3.5, but even in the csm dex it only has a sentence about Abaddon owning a black fortress,after 20 minutes of looking i couldn't even find that =( ,
I still own all the 3.5 dexs and while i understand having to tone down some rhetoric,there should be no reason to completely change fluff history.

Overall it's disappointing from a player's view as well. Why participate in grand campaigns if nothing matters? I realize they haven't had a real campaign in years, but they could always start them up again.

Meh , thats all i got, Rant = 0

[Trystis]

That 13th crusade was retconned. The new Chaos codex mentions that it has just started. The codex has rumors that Demon Primarchs are are at the head of its armies. The Empire is counter attacking, but there is no end to Abaddons forces. No mention of Eldrad so we will have to wait for the Eldar codex to see if he is still alive.

[Archon Charybdis]

As I've always understood it, most Eldar players were pretty miffed that their "reward" for doing so well in the campaign was to have their most powerful named character killed off.

[vharing]

The time lines in all the new codexs end at the eve of the 13th crusade. Therefore Eldrad is still alive. As far as named characters being killed off, I play blood angels and tycho is one of my fav hqs and GW wrote him off years ago. Doesnt mean people still cant use him.

[Drunkencorgimaster]

Overall it's disappointing from a player's view as well. Why participate in grand campaigns if nothing matters? I realize they haven't had a real campaign in years, but they could always start them up again.


Yes, it was dumb to kill of Eldrad at the end of the campaign, but overall I am in complete agreement with Mr. Bo. I'm still hacked off about Eye of Terror. We were promised the summer campaign would have a "real" impact on the 40k story line. It has had essentially none. This is why I can't get all worked up over the "coming" 13th Black Crusade and all this "End of Times" crap. It already happened. 10 years ago. It wasn't/isn't going to be that bad. I think only one planet (St. Josmine's Hope, if I recall) was fully destroyed due to Imperial virus bombing. It was really fun playing in the campaign and watching it go down, so as far as I'm concerned the 13th Black Crusade is over. The Galaxy survived, period. Chaos you had your chance, now its the Tyranids' turn.

[eldargal]

The campaign was a missed opportunity really and fudging over eldar players didn't help things. Not overly fussed to see the clock wound back in the official canon either, doesn't necessarily mean what happened won't happen. Just that it hasn't yet.

[daboarder]

The campaign was a missed opportunity really and fudging over eldar players didn't help things. Not overly fussed to see the clock wound back in the official canon either, doesn't necessarily mean what happened won't happen. Just that it hasn't yet.

Yeah no body was too happy with how that ended.

If I remember correctly

Eldar were upset because eldrad got eaten.

Loyalists got upset because they dominated in BFG and as such technically the Chaos forces should never have been able to make any planetfall anywhere.

Chaos were upset because they completely Curb-stomped in 40k, but the best they got was "cadia was invaded"

[eldargal]

Yep, it was annoying because eldar also reclaimed a couple of crone worlds from the Warp. Now that would have been something fascinating to build on but it was never mentioned again.:(

[pauljc]

To clarify for you all - because I'm reading the book right now - Eldrad isn't dead, and there's no mention of his sacrifice. In the Eldar timeline section, it jus tends with the Eldar fighting to contain the Chaos pouring from Eye of Terror. Massive casualities on both sides, yada yada.

[Wolfshade]

To clarify for you all - Eldrad isn't dad

Have to go on Springer/The Jeremy Kyle Show to find him

[pauljc]

Have to go on Springer/The Jeremy Kyle Show to find him

Hehe derp! I typo'd!

[bfmusashi]

Now I want to see Eldrad on Maury "it's all paternity tests now" Povich. Over ten millennia under his belt, you know there's some child support due out there.

[Walls]

Nothing anyone has ever done in any campaign, world wide or not, really matters to GW. They are going to do what they do regardless of promises.

[phil035]

I've been in the hobby since the spring after it finished and can't really comment but look at fantasy.... half the heros in that have died and have been dead for 100s of years

[gmsniper]

I knew the whole campaign was garbage when I single handled won the event at my local store on the first turn. The look on those GW guys was priceles. They had to run to the truck for reinforcements and were all like "o orbital strike from fleet". I called them lame and continued to own. From what I was told it was the last week of playing and the chaos victory at the store pretty much ensured chaos campaign victory.

[Bryce Babbs]

http://images.4chan.org/tg/src/1369932417956.jpg

You are welcome.

[Andrew Mel Ehala]

think this is relevant actually - I started reading the Ciaphas Cain books a little while ago, and throughout it there are references to it being M42 - the first sentence is an extract from a book published in 140.M42 as i recall it, and the annotations state there was another Black Crusade not long after...

[tcraigen]

That was all a divergent timeline thread he was viewing, one of the possible futures he was able to trace with the threads of time. It was a Dallas moment, no one shot J.R. .....

[Chris*ta]

think this is relevant actually - I started reading the Ciaphas Cain books a little while ago, and throughout it there are references to it being M42 - the first sentence is an extract from a book published in 140.M42 as i recall it, and the annotations state there was another Black Crusade not long after...

People have noticed this before. As Black Library isn't "official" canon, and this example is especially out of place, (it is the only thing ever dated after M41) this is mostly ignored. Or at least, not considered definitive proof of anything.

Before anyone complains about my 'official canon' comments, I like BL, I've read a bunch of Ciaphas Cain stories, (and really enjoyed them) but there isn't necessarily the oversight/error-checking to ensure complete compatibility with canon.

[DrLove42]

Everyone whinging that they've retconned the fluff

Imagine GW ran a new campaign this summer. Space Marines win. Your reward is Marneus Calgar is permanantly removed from the fluff and is no longer a character in the next marine codex.

Would you be whinging that they "retconned" him back into existance?

[Brass Scorpion]

I've been collecting Eldar since 1990 and I participated in the 2003 Eye Of Terror campaign and I have to say that this matters not all to me as I'm sure it matters not in the least to anyone who began Warhammer 40K after 2003. It's a fantasy game where players make up a lot of their own stories anyway to enjoy their models as they see fit. What's "official" is going to change all the time and indeed does to suit the needs of marketing and creating new models and rules and opportunities for the game. The model range would be pretty boring if GW would have stuck to just what was created and stated during Rogue Trader days.

[Losark]

Everyone whinging that they've retconned the fluff

Imagine GW ran a new campaign this summer. Space Marines win. Your reward is Marneus Calgar is permanantly removed from the fluff and is no longer a character in the next marine codex.

Would you be whinging that they "retconned" him back into existance?

I am a devoted Ultramarines player, 3rd company and 1/2 of 1st company in their entireties. IF they killed Marneus Calgar it would be an opportunity to replace him with a new chapter master. Or it would open up story options about the interim period of a leaderless/temporary chapter head. From a commercial standpoint they wouldn't necessarily have to remove Calgar from the codex. He could be a historical character.

Same with Eldrad. It doesn't matter what timeline or point in the timeline the codexes have as their "present" setting. Bottom line, the 13th black crusade is CANON. You know it, I know it, the BL authors and game designers know it. It's just that in the CURRENT setting of publication the company has decided to make it canon that hasn't happened yet. I for one think that maybe the authors (because it was the author's choice not marketing I guarantee it. Any GW insider is welcome to refute me) chose that time period because it is an exciting time in the grimdark. Right at the beginning of a terrible time of conflict that gives every race an excuse to jump in and beat the snot out of each other. A time when strange ALLIANCES were commonplace. Races chose sides, worked with unlikely ALLIES, splinter groups within splinter groups fought for differing views... You get the picture.

Something that I think the GW community forgets sometimes is that the people designing and writing for these universes we love so much ALSO love these universes. The BL authors have gone on record stating that they frequently look forward to each other's releases. These people aren't just going to completely alter the backstory to suit their needs. They are just going to go backward or forward in time and tell the stories that they want to in timeframes that suit the stories. Or turn back time to sell more Eldrads. He still dies. Just...later.

I for one acknowledge GW's shortcomings (and would be happy to have a well reasoned discussion with a representative if they chose to contact me) but still love the universe and game they have created. I love the friends I have made through gaming and will continue to play whenever I get the time to.



TLDR: I hope people read this part. I really do. STOP IT! Stop being sandy. Don't like how much models cost? Convert. Scratch Build. Tired of buying new models? Stop. Get what you will use and stop. Don't like a certain rule change? Don't like the current version of 40k? Don't play. it has been discussed elsewhere why it is unfeasible to play earlier versions so just stop playing. Go do something else.

If rules changes aren't enough to drive you away from the hobby then shut up and play the game. Continue enjoying the game and universe you love in silence and stop *****ing about the practices of a company that, at the end of the day, HAS to make a profit.

[DrLove42]

Problem is people aren't (or at least don't seem to be) whinging cos the fluffs been changed. They're whinging cos a dead character is still in the codex

[Drunkencorgimaster]

Problem is people aren't (or at least don't seem to be) whinging cos the fluffs been changed. They're whinging cos a dead character is still in the codex

I'm surprised to find myself disagreeing with the Good Doctor Love who I am usually in close agreement with but I'm whining ("whinging?") because I was one of thousands of people who participated in a campaign that was fun as hell, was promised it would make a difference (which is partly what made it SO fun) and was subsequently all but ignored. I don't play Eldar and don't really care if dead Eldrad is in the Codex one way or another. I thought I remember being able to play a dead space marine (Ancient Helvectius or something like that) at some point, maybe in 5th or 4th edition. That was no big deal. PS: I'm also fine with GW making a profit.

[Dillon Whitely]

What if everything that has happened so far, including all of the events of black crusade etc, actually is still canon but Eldrad found a way to wind back the entire universe's timeline just to be a complete dick?

[bfmusashi]

Everyone whinging that they've retconned the fluff

Imagine GW ran a new campaign this summer. Space Marines win. Your reward is Marneus Calgar is permanantly removed from the fluff and is no longer a character in the next marine codex.

Would you be whinging that they "retconned" him back into existance?

If it means another character that double punches things with his gun hands he could stay forever dead.

[Gothmog]

Didn't he leave behind waystones that somehow preserved his soul. So he isn't dead, just trapped in the warp. So maybe he found a way to come back.

[chicop76]

Good old Ultrhwe strike force. I still got the codex and glad bs 4 guardians is now part of the new codex.

I was a little pissed Eldrad died, but said wtf when he was in 4th edition or 4.5 Eldar codex, eldar the first 5th edition codex really. Anyway not surprised he is in the 6th since he was in 4.5.

After Eye of Terror I can care less about the fluff. Honestly grey knights killing sisters turned me off on the fluff completely.

I would say ignoring eye of terror like it never happened is my slow decline towards what is fluff, who really cares.

I was still trying to figure out how Tau was near the Eye of Terror and had such a huge impact on the events.

[bfmusashi]

Good old Ultrhwe strike force. I still got the codex and glad bs 4 guardians is now part of the new codex.

I was a little pissed Eldrad died, but said wtf when he was in 4th edition or 4.5 Eldar codex, eldar the first 5th edition codex really. Anyway not surprised he is in the 6th since he was in 4.5.

After Eye of Terror I can care less about the fluff. Honestly grey knights killing sisters turned me off on the fluff completely.

I would say ignoring eye of terror like it never happened is my slow decline towards what is fluff, who really cares.

I was still trying to figure out how Tau was near the Eye of Terror and had such a huge impact on the events.

I'm still surprised people thought that was weird. Grey Knights are always killing normal people as an expedient.

[Slacker]

That was all a divergent timeline thread he was viewing, one of the possible futures he was able to trace with the threads of time. It was a Dallas moment, no one shot J.R. .....

Great, now we just need a Plastic Dudesmen with Eldrad waking up in the shower.

[chicop76]

I'm still surprised people thought that was weird. Grey Knights are always killing normal people as an expedient.

While they at it they need to kill some Black Templar and some Inquisitors with a splash of Dark Angels.

[bfmusashi]

No one cries when the Guardsman dies :(

[Chris*ta]

Great, now we just need a Plastic Dudesmen with Eldrad waking up in the shower.

I hope it looks something like this:
http://comingsoon.net/nextraimages/dallas-teaser-small.jpg

[MrBo]

Okay first of all thanks all, it has been a constructive thread.
I started the thread when i probably was a little too tired from work, and wasn't able to coherently convey the message.

The title was "I do not think Eldrad should be alive", I made no reference to whether or not he should be included in the current codex.
As several people have stated, The current fluff supports 10,000 years of models you can buy, from forgeworld 30k to the Gw almost the end of all we know.
My main purpose in posting this was to display my dissatisfaction with the fact that a company that has a well established history in the market refuses to move forward with their own fictional history.

I used to also play Shadowrun around the same time that 40k did the 13th crusade, it may be my fault, but Shadowrun constantly updated their universe on a year to year basis. It might have led me to believe Gw would do the same.It just bothers me that i am "stuck" in a fictional universe that doesn't evolve.
So in short i didn't mean to bash on a codex that wasn't even out yet,I was just scratching on an old wound.
cheers!

[daboarder]

The thing is 40k is a setting not a plot, thats WHY it can span 10000 years of history, most people just have a fixation on the last 1000.

[Bitrider]

No one cries when the Guardsman dies :(

I didn't cry, but I did get choked up a couple times reading the Gaunt's Ghost series. Make fun if you must, but I really got attached to those guys.

[chicop76]

Okay first of all thanks all, it has been a constructive thread.
I started the thread when i probably was a little too tired from work, and wasn't able to coherently convey the message.

The title was "I do not think Eldrad should be alive", I made no reference to whether or not he should be included in the current codex.
As several people have stated, The current fluff supports 10,000 years of models you can buy, from forgeworld 30k to the Gw almost the end of all we know.
My main purpose in posting this was to display my dissatisfaction with the fact that a company that has a well established history in the market refuses to move forward with their own fictional history.

I used to also play Shadowrun around the same time that 40k did the 13th crusade, it may be my fault, but Shadowrun constantly updated their universe on a year to year basis. It might have led me to believe Gw would do the same.It just bothers me that i am "stuck" in a fictional universe that doesn't evolve.
So in short i didn't mean to bash on a codex that wasn't even out yet,I was just scratching on an old wound.
cheers!

He wasn't even supposed to be in the last Eldar codex due to him dying. I was confused since this is like 10 year old necromancy.

[darth_papi76]

Eldrad Lives! Awesome!

[Learn2Eel]

It does seem like GW have "retconned" the events of the 13th Black Crusade out of existence, as can be seen with the most recent Chaos Space Marine and Eldar background sections. It could be that they are preparing for a repeat of the campaign, or they weren't satisfied with the results.
On another note, it is interesting to note that Eldrad's bones are turning to crystal.

[daboarder]

It does seem like GW have "retconned" the events of the 13th Black Crusade out of existence, as can be seen with the most recent Chaos Space Marine and Eldar background sections. It could be that they are preparing for a repeat of the campaign, or they weren't satisfied with the results.
On another note, it is interesting to note that Eldrad's bones are turning to crystal.

Farseers do that as they get old, hence to dome of crystal seers

[Learn2Eel]

Yeah, it is just cool that they actually referenced it this time. Kind of gives more of a "last moments" vibe than "the black crusade has stalled, Eldrad is probably dead".

[Losark]

Problem is people aren't (or at least don't seem to be) whinging cos the fluffs been changed. They're whinging cos a dead character is still in the codex

No one seems to be whining about Tycho.

Follow up point: LOOK! its my Saim Hann Farseer. He counts as Eldrad.

[Losark]

Okay first of all thanks all, it has been a constructive thread.
I started the thread when i probably was a little too tired from work, and wasn't able to coherently convey the message.

The title was "I do not think Eldrad should be alive", I made no reference to whether or not he should be included in the current codex.
As several people have stated, The current fluff supports 10,000 years of models you can buy, from forgeworld 30k to the Gw almost the end of all we know.
My main purpose in posting this was to display my dissatisfaction with the fact that a company that has a well established history in the market refuses to move forward with their own fictional history.

I used to also play Shadowrun around the same time that 40k did the 13th crusade, it may be my fault, but Shadowrun constantly updated their universe on a year to year basis. It might have led me to believe Gw would do the same.It just bothers me that i am "stuck" in a fictional universe that doesn't evolve.
So in short i didn't mean to bash on a codex that wasn't even out yet,I was just scratching on an old wound.
cheers!

This is a much clearer thesis to be honest. And frankly a very valid point. I too am a bit sad that things like storyline progressing campaigns stopped happening. I don't want to talk myself up or repeat the point, but I feel that I made a decent attempt at explaining the most likely "Why" they chose to set it up at the start of the 13thBC. If you care go read my wall of text on page 3.

[Losark]

it is interesting to note that Eldrad's bones are turning to crystal.

That has always been the case with eldrad and farseers in general. 2 codexes ago Farseers were the only elder infantry with T4 because of that.