Questions about daemons, icons, banners and instruments

[droozy]

Hello you lovely people,
Had a few questions, Daemon related. First off, when using the icons the rule states; units with the same daemonic alignment deepstriking within 6" of the icon don't scatter, does this include Chaos Space Marine units with the same MARK of Chaos? I'm assuming no since Daemonic alignment has to do with units from the Daemon codex but wanted to make sure. Related; it says that Daemons only scatter 1d6. Does that count for all units with the Daemon special rule?

Secondly, if the icon is upgraded to a banner of blood, does it retain its powers as an icon, or does it lose those abilities to get one guaranteed 6 on the charge once per game? Sounds like a lame use of 20 pts if that's the case.

Third, the instrument of chaos states that once successful reserve rolls are made for a unit with an instrument of chaos that you can choose another unit of 'Daemons' to automatically pass reserve roll and be brought into play. My question for this is in two parts, first does any unit with the daemon special rule(including CSM units with the Daemon special rule, i.e. Obliterators, Heldrakes, Forge fiends) count as daemons in this context? Secondly, can this be stacked? What I mean is can you bring in one unit with an instrument, use that to bring out another unit with an instrument who brings out another unit? If so this opens up some awesome potential to get a large portion of a Daemon a Army out of reserve in one turn.

Thanks in advance for your input

[Magpie]

For the Icon, "the same alignment" is defined as all models that have the same Daemon of XXXX special rule. So a mark wouldn't be good enough.

A Banner of Blood is an Icon of Chaos. So it has all the rules of the icon + the banner rules

The Instrument rule does say that a unit of models that all have the Daemon special rule can be brought in so CSM would be fine I think. The latest FAQ however does say that things that modify reserve rolls don't affect allies but I don't think that applies here.

You can't compound the effect tho' because in order to auto bring in another unit you have to have passed a reserve roll. If a unit auto enters then they haven't passed a reserve roll.

[chicop76]

For the Icon, "the same alignment" is defined as all models that have the same Daemon of XXXX special rule. So a mark wouldn't be good enough.

A Banner of Blood is an Icon of Chaos. So it has all the rules of the icon + the banner rules

The Instrument rule does say that a unit of models that all have the Daemon special rule can be brought in so CSM would be fine I think. The latest FAQ however does say that things that modify reserve rolls don't affect allies but I don't think that applies here.

You can't compound the effect tho' because in order to auto bring in another unit you have to have passed a reserve roll. If a unit auto enters then they haven't passed a reserve roll.

The icons apply to marks. The only thing that chaos marines can actually take advantage of.

Bloodletters with icon means that an Oblit with mark of khorne won't scatter within 6".
Oblit with mark of Nurgle would scatter d6 inches
And everything else can't use them unless they are a daemon of chaos or a model that's a daemon with a mark of khorne, nurgle, etc.

With the instrument it applies to all daemons, so if you have mandrakes in reserve or khaine they would auto come in.

It's the same with the warp storm table.

Nevermind. Just re read pg. 64 since you have to be a daemon of khorne and not a daemon with a mark of khorne, so icons will not work on chaos.

Page. 26 coves Daemonic Alignment.

I was thinking warp storm which hits all models khorne and mark o khorne for example.

[droozy]

Thanks guys, you confirmed my suspicions.

[SacredChao]

Actually, the instrument only affects Daemon's who are in reserve via Deep Strike. Since Heldrakes and other daemon engines cannot deep strike, they are not affected. However, Obliterators, Mutilators, and Warp Talons all deep strike, therefore can come in and home in on the icons per their alignment.

[Pater Sin]

Mandrakes aren't deamons, and DE can't be uesd with deamons so they can't use their banners or instruments.

[Nabterayl]

Mandrakes are daemons according to the GK FAQ, despite not having the Daemon special rule. I agree, though, that I see no way to use them with daemon icons.