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View Full Version : The end times...whats ending?



Levitas
11-05-2009, 08:52 PM
Get your end is nigh placard ready folks.

5th is filled with 'the end is nigh' mentality. But where is GW taking this with both the game and fluff? Will they kill off the emperor and spin in a whole new direction? Will they end 40k for good and launch a whole new game? Whats the hidden meaning...?

Its even in the new SW dex, lil snippet before the battles section taliking of the wolves being in more and more conflicts.

Will they do a final edition complete with the return of the primarchs? Those not officially dead anyways.

Grotzooka
11-05-2009, 08:56 PM
They sure could take this somewhere insane, but I sure hope they don't. Advance the storyline, sure, but PLEASE don't bring the Primarchs back, PLEASE don't kill the Emperor, and PLEASE don't make this whole game a huge plot revolving around the Old Ones, because I think they've done enough, don't you?

person person
11-05-2009, 09:04 PM
The13th Black Crusade, Cypher and his Emperor killing sword, Hive Fleet Leviathan making its way to Terra, the Void Dragon, The Throne itself is breaking down. You'd think the Emperor would die.

But I doubt it. I wish they did so the Imperium could just break from the shackles. But some of the new fluff says if the Emperor died all of humanity would die. There's always the "Starchild" theory though.

eldargal
11-05-2009, 09:05 PM
Better to drop hints and keep things vague rather than have some kind of galaxy-shattering event which 'changes everything'.

DarkLink
11-05-2009, 10:15 PM
Yeah, I doubt GW will ever finish the story. They've strung everyone along for, what, 20+ years so far. How do you play a game when all the armies are either wiped out or everyone becomes friendly with each other?

Nabterayl
11-05-2009, 10:20 PM
If anything I've noticed that they're answering less these days. Anybody notice that the updated codices seem increasingly vague on details? Who remembers ork weapons working because the orks believed they did? Anybody notice what that turned into in the ork codex?

Levitas
11-06-2009, 07:56 AM
I think they are upto something. The existing material has been around for years, and I got a little bored reading the new rule book and dexes.

Lets look at this way. Say the game original came out and covered 30K. You had primarchs and legions you could actually play. The rule book was all about the great crusade. Then... next edition they drop the bombshell of the heresy, injecting the world with a whole new spin. Imagine finding out your loyal deathguard had gone traitor? It would be cool, give the writers lots of material and the sculptors tons of new minis.

Now we didn't get that, just tales of the heresy and novels to get a closer look. But...

What if GW did something similar? You can just see the rule book having a broken aquilla on it, and artwork of the throne failing. Space marines abandoning the codex to fight desperate battles, squads thrown together etc. It would effect all the books and inject some much needed life and variety. Other wise next SM codex we get.."oh and this sections about the heresy - skip -'

What we are getting is watered down material in all the new dexes. The original Rogue Trader was brimming with imagination. 5th is good system, and the black library is doing a fine job of covering stuff...we already know about.

Bring the 40K apocalypse GW...before I fall asleep.

entendre_entendre
11-06-2009, 03:00 PM
i think the problem with "ending" 40k would be that GW would lose it's main source of revenue. 40k is their biggest seller, and if some fans were pissed at the conclusion, they would leave and not return, cutting GW's profit's. i think one of the reasons why GW doesn't end 40k is that to do so would be financial suicide.

also, if times "ended", things would need to die, i.e. certain factions. imagine how pissed a tau player would be if they got eaten by the tyranids. or all the craftworld eldar die, creating Ynnead (sp?) who wants to destroy Slaanesh. in order to fight Ynnead, Slaanesh eats all the Dark Eldar. Slaanesh wins. now you've got no Tau, eldar, or dark eldar. or if Ynnead wins, you've still got no Tau, Eldar, or Dark Eldar, and now no Slaanesh. how do you think players of these factions would respond to their faction being wiped out? they'd probably be really F*ck!ng mad. this another reason the times simply don't "end".

i mean how angry would you be if the Space Wolves were simply written out of 40k b/c Fenris was overrun by a bunch Daemons (or something like this), and the scattered survivors were driven deep into the curse of the Wulfen, leaving them to wander to galaxy as a bunch of feral wolves?

also, if it ends quickly, the more likely the chance that GW will F*ck up the ending by trying to end all the plot points. it'd be like watching the most awesome movie ever, then in the last 3 minutes trying to explain everything, and end with "they all die". basically, that'd be the ending of 40k if they rushed it.
the 40k universe is exactly that, a universe. concluding a universe is no small task. just look how much work went/is going into the horus heresy series. now imagine that x100. basically, that's how much work it'd take to explain the end of 40k if they did a good job.

player backlash and money are two reasons why 40k doesn't end. now they could release a "sequel" game set long after 40k (warhammer 50/60k maybe?), so certain races would have time to die out/evolve, and could take place after the end of 40k, but not end 40k itself (it would take some clever writing, but it could be done). of course, this assumes the tyranids and necrons don't kill and/or eat everything...

Melissia
11-07-2009, 06:10 AM
Nowhere. For good or ill, GW won't do what White Wolf did and actually end it.

Kahoolin
11-07-2009, 06:40 AM
I gotta go with nowhere as well.

I just kind of assumed it's just a story set in an ominous near apocalypse. It's not actually meant to go anywhere. What some people seem to be reading as a progression of things getting worse for the galaxy over editions I'm just seeing as an exaggeration of what the story already was. The Imperium was always beset on all sides and fighting a losing battle, even in RT. They just have better writers now who make it more emotive and clear.

Melissia
11-07-2009, 11:48 AM
Right. It was just like the White Wolf setting before they did the Gehenna / Apocalypse / Ascension / whatever storylines and ****ed it all up so clumsily. It was the end of the world-- and everyone knew it, even if they wouldn't admit it, the supernatural could feel it in their souls.

Pael
11-07-2009, 01:26 PM
I see it as GW holding the carrot in front of the gamers faces to keep us following along and wondering what's next. Causing us to delve through every new book for any sign of the next piece of information buried within.

Ivarr
11-07-2009, 07:38 PM
The Golden Throne is failing...that is the perfect story to cover the fact that the Emperor died long ago...the Inquisition is just a violent opressive government like so many before. They use fear and opression and the religious promise of salvation to keep the population under control...I love the storyline.

Marshal2Crusaders
11-07-2009, 10:50 PM
The best place for 40K expansion is in history. Invent new campaigns that have shaped the face of the galaxy, and stuff like that. The timeline right now has 10,000 years of space to fill up with important events.

Pi666
11-11-2009, 08:57 AM
"The end..." means "let's go darker". Going darker because it's kinda "trendy" (Harry Potter went "darker") and it's relatively new in 40k. Does anyone remember when was the first time we saw battle damage in minis pictured in codexes?

I don't think GW will end up the storyline, and they shouldn't. Look at LOTR, the storyline is the same forever and people still roleplay, same for Krynn or Forgotten Realms.

And it's better for us that the storyline doesn't advance, so it'll save us from "Eldrad Ulthran did some mistake in Teh Eye of Terror and now is dead, but it's in this Codex" or "We made Eltharion blind after a fight, but we're no longer happy with that and now it's erased" kind of things.

Duke
11-11-2009, 11:37 AM
"The end..." means "let's go darker". Going darker because it's kinda "trendy" (Harry Potter went "darker") and it's relatively new in 40k. Does anyone remember when was the first time we saw battle damage in minis pictured in codexes?

I don't think GW will end up the storyline, and they shouldn't. Look at LOTR, the storyline is the same forever and people still roleplay, same for Krynn or Forgotten Realms.

And it's better for us that the storyline doesn't advance, so it'll save us from "Eldrad Ulthran did some mistake in Teh Eye of Terror and now is dead, but it's in this Codex" or "We made Eltharion blind after a fight, but we're no longer happy with that and now it's erased" kind of things.

I, for one, wouldn't mind the story line progression... Possibly in a BL series like "what if." Then we could see what eventually happens without it affecting the overall setting.

Duke

Melissia
11-11-2009, 11:52 AM
I'd like that as well. It's kinda like White Wolf's Time of Judgement scenarios. Even individual game systems had four or five endings, and even then, the storyteller was encouraged to make it fit how they wanted it to.

A sort of "what if" book that has some short stories about what would happen if any one faction one... and none of the stories have happy endings for everyone, possibly not even anyone.

Duke
11-11-2009, 11:59 AM
For once M you and I agree right off the bat, lol.

I especially would like it if all of them weren't happy endings. Sort of "if they were going to die this is how it would happen."

Duke

Melissia
11-11-2009, 12:07 PM
Except maybe Orks. But even Orks wouldn't like it if they really won, they'd break down into a galaxy-spanning civil war after the end.

Actually... wouldn't that be completely fine for an Ork?

Duke
11-11-2009, 12:30 PM
Orks would "lose" by some freak warp accident making it so that they reproduce without vocal chords... no more WAAAAGGGGHHH!!.

Or possibly some nasty trick by the Eldar to make Orks Deaf, blind, mute and paralyzed... That way no more fighting (though they would probably find a way)

Duke

Nabterayl
11-11-2009, 12:41 PM
Orks: the only happy race in 40K.

Duke
11-11-2009, 02:11 PM
So as Im thinking about this I'd like to see what everyone thinks about the "end," for the different races? Note: Answers, like "No end," aren't allowed...be creative for lords sake.

Marines:
Imperium:
Inquisition:
Eldar:
Dark Eldar:
Tau:
Necron:
Tyranids:
Chaos:
Chaos Marines:

Nabterayl
11-11-2009, 03:16 PM
So as Im thinking about this I'd like to see what everyone thinks about the "end," for the different races? Note: Answers, like "No end," aren't allowed...be creative for lords sake.

A Tau player of mine likes to point out that Tau have gone from pre-technological to post-Imperial technology in 6,000 years. Give us another couple of centuries, he says, and we'll invent a machine that seals off the Warp, and win the universe :D

Melissia
11-11-2009, 03:28 PM
Imperium (including Marines): The Imperium is able to crush the Imperium's enemies, but in doing so they ignore the enemies within the Imperium itself. Humanity fractures into fiefdoms and feudal territories, with individual Astartes chapters ruling swaths of the galaxy. Heresy is common, and humanity-- including the Astartes, whom themselves were once human-- finds that its greatest enemies were always the ones within. Humanity tears itself apart, leaving the Imperium nothing more than shattered remains of its former glory. The Astartes, lacking the resources to continue their lines, all but die out. Faith falters, and the Sisters lose popular support, remaining only on a few important shrine worlds. The Guard is beset by constant infighting, and the most capable generals are assassinated by the lesser individuals whom desire more power. And in the warp, four dark gods scheme, laughing to themselves as they begin the dawn of a new age... the Age of Chaos.

Inquisition: The Emperor is resurrected, reborn as a child on the outskirts of a planet near Cadia. He quickly grows up and remembers his true self, but the Imperium does not accept him-- not as a whole. A full third of the Imperium turns against this "False Emperor". The faithful Sororitas flock to his side, but many have their trips sabotaged by the traitorous and power-hungry Ecclesiarchal authorities whom looked upon the new Emperor in fear-- afraid that they would lose all of their power now that he was here. Even amongst the Astartes, many of the newer chapters rejected him, and only the first and second foundings remained entirely true in loyalty-- most of what remains sided with the Ecclesiarchy against the Emperor. Seeing the situation the Imperium is in, its enemies strike out against it, raking their vile claws against this vulnerable and injured nation's back. The Tau expand to the point where they are now poised to invade Macragge. Orks, empowered by victorious fighting against the various Tyranid hive fleets, conquer huge swatsh of territory on the galactic map. Chaos is unable to break through the gates, but they thoroughly corrupt the traitorous Ecclesiarchy. The C'tan, seeing the Emperor as the one true threat to their immortalities, unite against humanity, and renew their attacks. Even the Emperor is now unsure if humanity will survive this onslaught...

Eldar: The last Eldar falls, and Ynnead is born. A fierce battle rages across the galaxy, and in the end, Ynnead destroys Slaanesh. The Eldar are reborn onto their maiden worlds, and begin to celebrate... but then they discover, to their horror, that the very concept of pleasure and enjoyment has been destroyed along with Slaanesh' own essence. The Eldar turn to despair and hatred, and their emotions cause them to be corrupted into two camps. One camp worships the reborn Khaine, while the others worship Aisha. Unfortunately for them, however... these beings were destroyed upon the creation of Ynnead, and what they worship are just avatars of Nurgle and Khorne. Tzeench prefers to play the other two against eachother, rather than act openly-- but a small contingent of powerful psykers worship him in secret... only further ensuring that chaos' will is done. In the end, the Eldar race turns into nothing more than worthless pawns to be used and abused by the three remaining thirsting gods in a world that knows no pleasure of any kind.

Dark Eldar: The Dark Eldar cause all of the governments of the galaxy to collapse with their brilliant tactics and raidings, and even the forces of chaos are, well, in chaos. The Imperium crumbles, the Orks can never find a warlord whom can live past a decade, the Tau Ethereal cast is decimated, the C'tan are mortally wounded by ancient and powerful magicks, the Chaos Marines are tricked into destroying eachother-- it is a masterwork of deception, speed, and destruction. But Chaos thrives upon such unrest and destruction, and as the Dark Eldar ramp up their celebrations, they suddenly fall into silence. Slaanesh itself stands now before them, in Commeragh-- smirking as the REAL feast begins.

Tau: The Tau expand rapidly, and with their superior technology and tactics they conquer the galaxy. But they soon find that the people of the milky way will not submit to them, will not follow their dogma. They are now in the same situation that the Emperor was in during the Great Crusade-- without an Emperor to lead them. Their empire is torn apart by constant civil war, and as they crack down harder on the insurgents, even their most loyal allies begin to question their allegiance to the Tau. In the end, the Kroot leave the Tau Empire to side with the rebellion, and the Tau now face the wrath of an entire galaxy of angry races, united against them as rebels overthrowing tyrants. And rebels rarely let the tyrants get off with their lives...

Necron: The Necrontyr manage to free themselves from the C'tan and destroy all life in the galaxy, and ensure that their former masters have nothing to feed on. Except themselves. One by one, the remaining C'tan eat what little remains of the souls of the Necrontyr, and begin to cultivate new life in order to create races of beings that are utterly enslaved from the very beginning, and exist only to feed the C'tan.

C'tan: The remaining C'tan wake up, and begin to harvest the souls of all the living in the galaxy. In desperation, all the forces of the galaxy unite under the banner of the Imperium, even the Chaos Gods throw their power in to oppose the C'tan. Despite this, the stargods win, but afterwards, they find themselves trapped... the epic battle destroyed not only all sentient life, but quite simply all life down to the very smallest microbes-- a fact ensured by the Tyranid Hive Mind-- it realized that it would lose this war, and intentionally went out of its way to devour all essence of life to strengthen itself. Even in its defeat, though, the tactic worked. In a distant galaxy, the surviving Old Ones smile grimly as they watch the Milky Way Galaxy begin to dim... the hungry stargods, unable to satisfy their hunger anymore with the power of the stars, begin to devour entire stars in order to sate their gluttony. Eventually, they starve themselves, and the Old Ones bide their time... the C'tan would eventually become weak enough to destroy utterly, and all it took was the sacrifice of one galaxy to do it.

Tyranids: The final fortress world falls to the Tyranids. This world is Holy Terra, and it is protected by all that remains of all races, but they were not enough. As the Tyranid horde feeds upon the remnants of the shattered world, a hive tyrant comes across Him on His Golden Throne, and devours the ancient corpse, kept alive by the merest threads with the faltering technology of the Throne. His spirit released by the slaying, He makes a pact with what remains of the Chaos Gods, and forms into one almighty mega-god that encompasses all emotions. In his wrath, this One True God unleashes utter war upon the Tyranid force, shattering the Hive Mind so that each fleet has its own mind, before finally expending its last bit of energy ensuring that these fragments could not join together. What little remains of the final Tyranid hive fleet is nothing more than a shell of what it once was, and this fragment of the hive mind is barely more than a child... it may not even survive the journey to the next galaxy, and even if it makes it there, it may not be able to survive the galaxy's inhabitants-- the creators of the Tyranids, the Old Ones, whom hate their now-tainted and broken creation.

Chaos: The Imperium crumbles through Tzeench's schemes, the vast majority of the Eldar are captured by Slaanesh, the Tau are torn apart by Khornate berserkers, and Nurgle manages to all but wipe out the Tyranids through an impossibly deadly virus that decimates entire hive fleets at a time. In their percieved victory, the dark gods and their servants celebrate in a violent orgy of blood, pestilence, sex, and sorcery. Secretly, upon an asteroid which is all that remains of the shattered world of Holy Terra, the last loyalists, inquisitors, sororitas, guard, astartes, and mechanicus alike, plot their revenge. They ally with the survivors of the Eldar and the Tau, performing a ceremony of technology and sorcery that awakens the Emperor again. His light shines brightly once more, brighter than it ever did as the Tau and Eldar accept him as their god in their desperation for a way out of this torturous existence. The Emperor's Second Great Crusade would soon begin, and He will not fall so easily this time.

Chaos Marines: They conquer Earth, and Abbadon walks in and slays the Emperor. Only to find that it was really true-- the only thing holding back daemons was the Emperor's will. From the failed webway experiment which the Golden Throne and the Emperor's energies blocked, a horde of daemons pours out into reality. And the Chaos Marines are in their way. The Traitor Marines have served their purpose, and now they are nothing but food and playtoys to the Chaos Gods and their servants.

Duke
11-11-2009, 03:31 PM
That is great!

Here are my feelings on the end of Tyranids:

- They eat the galaxy and then go cannibal because there is nothing else to eat. In the end they have one lone hormugaunt hiding on a rock in the galactic center.

Duke

Melissia
11-11-2009, 03:42 PM
Glad ya liked it. Hopefully they all fit the grimdark nature of 40K.

person person
11-11-2009, 05:08 PM
Awesome, Liked how when the Eldar destroy Slaanesh, they killed of everything it represented. I always thought you'd have to do the reverse, e.g. Kill Khorne by stopping all violence in the universe.

Duke
11-12-2009, 12:06 PM
Or kill NUrgle by implementing Universal Health care... Obama for Emperor?

Duke

Melissia
11-12-2009, 12:57 PM
Nurgle feeds off of despair, IIRC. Not just disease, but disease causes a great deal of despair, so it is one of his strongest tools.

Jay Biga
11-12-2009, 01:09 PM
Except maybe Orks. But even Orks wouldn't like it if they really won, they'd break down into a galaxy-spanning civil war after the end.

Actually... wouldn't that be completely fine for an Ork?

Yep. In fact, according to the original Ork bible (Waargh the Orks) the giant civil war that destroyed the Brain Boyz and made the Orks dominant amongst greenskins, this war is known amongst Orkdom as The Big Party.

eagleboy7259
11-12-2009, 01:57 PM
I vote M to write the fluff for the next edition of 40k

entendre_entendre
11-12-2009, 04:00 PM
Eldar: one of them looked at 2 girls 1 cup corrupting their mind completely and due to the eldar's psychic nature spreads from one eldar to another until all eldar have the images in their heads. driven insane by the waves of slaaneshi influences constantly circulating throughout their minds the eldar decide to commit mass suicide rather than live another moment in torment. essentially the hoighty-toighty eldar die from pr0nz.

Tau: one firewarrior gets BSE, and due to feeding patterns (with some kroot influence) the entire fire caste becomes infected leaving the Tau without warriors to defend itself with. the empire collapses on itself leaving anarchy and chaos (tzeenech takes an interest to see if it can mutate a tau). the tyranids decide not to eat tau for a while.

Dark Eldar: during a massive orgy of violence/torture/s&m, etc. the DE realize too late that the "cool new guy" that Kalthehex brought with him to supply the party is actually a slaaneshi cultist. what the DE had thought was their daily supply of LSD, Cocaine, and other narcotics is actually chemicals created in the warp to bring about a massive daemonic summoning. summary: worst. party. ever.

Tyranids: after ingesting a large number of obliterators, the hive finds itself infected with the same techno-virus that created the obliterators in the first place. due to the nature of the virus, the warp aids in the spread, somehow avoiding the shadow of the warp (possibly Tzeenech's doing), which causes part of the hive mind to become infected. the remainder of the hive mind senses the danger posed by the virus and starts attacking itself to destroy the infection. but as the mind sends more and more to destroy the virus, the more the virus spreads. soon the hive mind is subsumed by the virus and held captive within its own mind, but unable to act. chaos now has new playthings to unleash on the galaxy - the oblito-nids!

Necrons: in a last ditch attempt to defend itself, the Mechanicum activates the greatest machine spirit held in stasis since the dark ages of technology: Skynet. Skynet realizes that the only way to defeat the necrons is to go back in time to defeat them when they were weak. Skynet activates other advanced warrior machines for this task. Skynet sends them back, but unfortunately, the very machines sent back in time to save humanity are misidentified as early necrons by the imperium and promptly destroyed.