So, WHY don't you like Ultramarines?

[Grotzooka]

I hear from people all the time about how they hate Ultramarines. So I wanna know, why? Is it their fluff? Their color? The fact that they take time away from your army of choice? Or do you just like saying "UltraSmurf?"

[Sangre]

They're the poster boys. The boy scouts with the holier-than-thou attitude AND the quasi-heretical autonomous pseudo-empire out in the Eastern Fringe.

[Denzark]

I unashamedly like Ultramarines. My first army (although my first marine was Legion of the Damned).

[Nabterayl]

GW needed a recognizable brand image (very sensibly), and Ultramarines got tapped. In a sense this has put them in a very odd situation. If they hadn't become the face of the game, you'd have a situation something like this:


Blood Angels - knight monk vampires in space
Space Wolves - knight monk werewolf vikings in space
Dark Angels - knight monk monks in space
Black Templars - knight monk knight monks in space
Ultramarines - knight monk Romans in space

All more or less equally distinctive. But because Ultramarines got tapped to be the face of the brand, they exist in this weird limbo where they're equally knight monk Romans in space and generic knight monks in space. That makes it hard to get into their distinctive fluff these days. Add that to the, "Why did THEYYYY get to be the face of the brand?!?!?!?!?!" quasi- nerd jealousy and you have a faction that is hard to like, and easy to hate.

[Lerra]

Ultramarines is the army of choice for young boys entering the hobby, so a lot of the stereotypes associated with 12-year olds get associated with Ultramarines players.

Personally, the first time I saw 40k, there were three tables set up. One was Smurfs vs. Smurfs, one was Smurfs vs. Chaos, and one was a guy painting some more smurfs. I decided right there that I would never collect smurfs, and furthermore would never paint any of my armies blue . . .

[keithsilva]

The only reason people hate Ultramarines is because GW brand image, if Dark Angles, Blood Angels or any other chapter was brand that way the same would happen to them. I for one like the Ultramarines chapter, they are my first army and i still play them to this day, I have a beautiful paint army as well. what I hate the most and what hurts there image is people painting them like crap. Ther fluff is great I for on will never change chapters only because people look at me and say oh so u play UltraSmurfs LOL

[MarshalAdamar]

I don't hate the Ultra Marines. Blue is actually my favorite color! That’s why my Tau are red, I play Black templar’s and Codex grey space wolves and my Necrons are silver!

Really. But I love the Ultramarines I love the fluff and the color and if I had a million dollars I would by them too!

But I inherited my armies at least the basis for each army and it became easier to just continue them than to start another army. So my love a blue army goes largely unsatisfied. I have my Ork Deffskulls clan and they are somewhat blue and so they fill the void.

[therealjohnny5]

For me it's twofold:

I don't like the color scheme...kinda rediculous for a battle field and they are a bit too rigid for my likings as far as fluff goes
Second, everyone plays them, whilie i love marines for what they are, I prefer a more unique but still mainstream without the need for another subcodex...ala Raven Guard...plus i like their fluff more...kinda the peoples marines...like the A-Team, or Hogans Heroes, or the Dirty Dozen...or Darkwing Duck....or...

[Katie Drake]

I like the Ultramarines. They're cool. I think that most people hate on the Ultramarines because that's what everyone else does so they do it too without ever really wondering why.

[eagleboy7259]

2 things really: 1) I want my army to be unique enough even with my poor modeling skills. That means staying away from the armies that everyone else paints up aka the Ultras. 2) When I was a young kid there was an older guy who used to hang out at the store and played Ultras... I mean Blue Templars... err Blue Wolves? Every week he was a different army, wouldn't bother me really until we got to the tournements when I remember losing my GK Grand Master to his Black Templars Veteran Sargent w/ powerfist... do Black Templars have Vet. Sarges? no. The ruling? Well he paid for it so of course he gets the extra attack... and the devastators are perfectly legal too???

[imperialsavant]

Ultramarines is the army of choice for young boys entering the hobby, so a lot of the stereotypes associated with 12-year olds get associated with Ultramarines players.

Personally, the first time I saw 40k, there were three tables set up. One was Smurfs vs. Smurfs, one was Smurfs vs. Chaos, and one was a guy painting some more smurfs. I decided right there that I would never collect smurfs, and furthermore would never paint any of my armies blue . . .

;) Whilst I do like their "Fluff" I think I dont like them as an Army of Choice because there are just so damn many of them around the Gaming Tables & I agree with Lerra as to why.
I remember when the Black Templars where in the Box Set there were "heaps" of them but now since Mc Craggi & Black Reach the Ultras have taken over.:)
I really like the Templars as you can see from my Avitar as they play so differently to all other loyal Marines.

[eldargal]

When I started playing it was Blood Angels that were the poster boys and everyone disliked them instead. Its damned stupid really, of all the whining that echoes in the halls of this hobby, smurfhate is probably the most nonsensical.

[darth_papi76]

I like the Ultramarines. I am a little put off by the fluff in the new Codex that makes it seem like everyone wants to be an Ultramarine. I they went a little too far with the stories in the new Codex.

[DarkLink]

I like Ultramarines, though that's not to say they're the coolest. The Grey Knights are the coolest*, without question.

To me, all the people who complain about Ultramarines sound like whiny emo kids who talk about athletic sports players behind their backs. Not exactly mature, and probably unfounded (depending on the sport).


*http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=17042
http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=11467
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/uploads/1232046973/gallery_32798_3118_48782.jpg

[Levitas]

When I started playing it was Blood Angels that were the poster boys and everyone disliked them instead. Its damned stupid really, of all the whining that echoes in the halls of this hobby, smurfhate is probably the most nonsensical.

I too remember this time. People just grow to hate the poster boys as they become main stream. They are the signature newbie army, usually painted bad. This puts people off fairly quick.

I dont mind ultras but would never collect them. Too stiff and a little dull. The anti hero is always more popular than the shining knight, and the other chapters have a more distinctive edge. Vampires, wolves, monks, fanatics etc. Ultras have no flaw, they are just shiny an blue and point to the codex like swots. lol.

[EmperorEternalXIX]

I hate the Codex Astartes more than I hate them, but I dislike them by proxy.

I like the idea of them being the end all be all of the Space Marines, the ones who are the least corrupted and thus most prominent and effective. But the "Codex Astartes" as it exists in the fiction is BS, and here's why: all it is, is a fluff-born excuse to keep the marine codex "balanced" by having tons of weird limitations.

The way it is presented in the fluff, the Codex Astartes is a masterful tome of battle strategy that will allow ultimate flexibility to any foe. In game, all it means is that we have less guys than everyone else, they are only allowed basic statlines, and their weapons and setup must all be as vanilla as possible because they are "the starter army."

I dislike that other chapters get lumped in with them in the codex, and that there are 50 ultramarines characters who are all of surprisingly little note. I like Marneus Calgar but the latest book has placed his fluff beyond even my warhammer fanboy level of disbelief suspension. Apparently he held a gate against an entire ork force alone, and better still, defeated an Avatar with his bare hands. This guy sounds like a god damn primarch. Now is it cool? Sure. But it makes little sense.

More aggravating is the Codex itself. I feel like if they consider it such a holy and perfect tome of warfare, that it should confer some manner of actual benefit. In game it is nothing more than the justification for stupid random limitations that have no basis in 5th edition reality.

[Nabterayl]

I dont mind ultras but would never collect them. Too stiff and a little dull.
You know it always struck me as odd that the Ultramarines aren't more Roman. Like Ian Morris (http://www.stanford.edu/dept/history/people/morris_ian.html) once said: "Imagine a bunch of frat boys running around the Mediterranean taking over the world. That's basically the Romans."

[LastManOnearth]

My local group is strange. Not only are there no Ultramarine players, there is ATM only one Space Marine player. Inquisitional armies outnumber SM 3:1. Anyone wanting to do marines will do some variant list such as BA, DA, SW. Nobody plays vanilla marines, and certainly not Ultramarines.

So I decided to be Different, and the most unique thing I could imagine was to play... Ultramarines. This is really just an excuse to take a break from my normal army and use the SM models from starter sets etc. that have been gathering dust.

I'm torn, though, between doing straight-up Ultramarines or a successor chapter, the UltraUltraMarines, formed from Brothers from the UltraMarines whose dedication to the teachings and memory of Roboute Guillome is so devout, and whose strict adherence to the letter of the Codex Astartes is so exacting that even the UltraMarines find them too annoying.

LMoE

[RocketRollRebel]

When I started playing it was Blood Angels that were the poster boys and everyone disliked them instead. Its damned stupid really, of all the whining that echoes in the halls of this hobby, smurfhate is probably the most nonsensical.

Ditto. To be honest I have only ever seen one actual ultramarine army on the table and that was only one time! Why hate? They are a chapter just like any other, I have no problem with them being the poster child for marines or GW. I play Blood Angels and I'll even say that ultramarines are essentially the purest, most ideal space marines hence why they should be the poster child marine army.

[Sitnam]

Im fine with it. Noone in my area has UM's, and they fit fight to me as the poster boys. I just hate that all the other 'vanilla' chapters got the bad end of the stick.

[crazyredpraetorian]

Liking the Ultrasmurfs over SWs is like preferring JC Van Dam over Chuck Norris. One is pretty but the other is pure bad@$$.

[Wolfshade]

I think my dislike of them stems from when I started playing, all the varient lists DA,BA,SW (no BT back then) were all Ultramarines with bonus units. So it was a case of well I could play basic marines or bonus marines with cool units.

From a fluff POV I dislike the way that codex astartes was mandated on everyone else. Yeah boys in blue that might work for you, but I want to do it this was as my primarch organised us :-p, then of course there is the poster boy jealous

[Cryl]

I play UMs. I played them in RT days when they were "the blue ones" rather than being any sort of poster boys for anything... Crimson Fists made up the cover art in those days.

Personally I'm bemused by the whole "I hate the Ultramarines" thing... how can people have so much emotion about something that basically boils down to the colour that GW chose for the armour for the marine box art? I just don't get it but then again I like blue...

[ForeverHero]

For me it's the whole 'Blue Thing' but just because they look like Roman-Smurfs... If GW chose a different shade of blue (darker) to begin with I probably would have chosen them over Dark Angels.

[N0rdicNinja]

http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/pv/Vanilla%20Ice-4.JPG

[ForeverHero]

http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/pv/Vanilla%20Ice-4.JPG

Yip-Yip ... Boyz!!!

[Melissia]

I don't really care about papa smurf's little smurflings one iota either way-- like or dislike. I just don't like GW having its nose so far up Marneus Calgar's backside that he can smell the guy's toothpaste.

[ForeverHero]

I don't really care about papa smurf's little smurflings one iota either way-- like or dislike. I just don't like GW having its nose so far up Marneus Calgar's backside that he can smell the guy's toothpaste.

I wonder if he uses Crest or Colgate ;)

I'll agree with you there, they seem to give a lot of love the the Smurfs than any other army. I feel for the necron and dark eldar players that have been waiting years for an update. You would think that they could bring in some extra staff to work on producing new codexes or army books a little faster.

[Sam]

1. I don't like their color scheme.
2. They are the go to heroes in GW fluff. "Whoa, this hive fleet has been built up so much, how are we going to stop them and still have it be believable?" "Screw believable, let just say the Ultramarines stopped them."
3. They are named the ULTRAmarines. WTF kind of name is that?
4. They out number any other army out there at least 2 to 1.
5. They are plain codex marines, which leaves them with a kind of "We are better than everyone else, except that everyone else is way more awesome than us." kind of feel.

[Lerra]

Is it just me, or does each Imperial codex try to one-up the last one in terms of battle prowess and badassery?

Blood Angels: We are crazy and awesome.
Dark Angels: Well, we have the purest gene-seed!
Ultramarines: Nuh-uh, WE have the purest gene-seed. And we eat nails for breakfast.
IG: Yeah, well we took out a Necron tomb world. By throwing bodies at it.
Ultramarines: We took out a Necron tomb world, too. Marneus Calgar glared at it until it exploded.

The battle fluff in the 5th ed codices is almost silly. I keep waiting for the author to make Chuck Norris jokes about the chapter masters.

Ultras will probably be let off the hook once the SW codex gets settled in, or at the very least by the Blood Angel codex.

[Nabterayl]

The battle fluff in the 5th ed codices is almost silly. I keep waiting for the author to make Chuck Norris jokes about the chapter masters.
Give me the battle fluff in Imperial Armour any day.

[EmperorEternalXIX]

I actually like all of the codex fluff except the Space Marine one. Generally speaking it is unbelievable even by 40k standards. I don't believe for a second that Marneus Calgar can do half the crap he did in that book.

[entendre_entendre]

i think people would hate the Ultramarines less if they had fluff like this:

After the siege of Ultramar by Hive Fleet Behemoth, Marneus Calgar retired to his private quarters to "conduct the clearing out of his armoury." Calgar returned to command the chapter three days later. When questioned on his prolonged absence, Calgar responded that there was "a bio-titan that he was fighting for three days... by himself... with his bare hands..." in his private restroom. Reports say Tigurius started chuckling after this and recommended that Calgar consult his Apothecary. Witnesses say that one could hear "the grunts of battle" from outside the room. Chapter serfs claimed "There was enough "bio-mass" to feed the hive fleets for a week" after this incredible event. The rest of the chapter decided not to ask questions."

[Grotzooka]

i think people would hate the Ultramarines less if they had fluff like this:

After the siege of Ultramar by Hive Fleet Behemoth, Marneus Calgar retired to his private quarters to "conduct the clearing out of his armoury." Calgar returned to command the chapter three days later. When questioned on his prolonged absence, Calgar responded that there was "a bio-titan that he was fighting for three days... by himself... with his bare hands..." in his private restroom. Reports say Tigurius started chuckling after this and recommended that Calgar consult his Apothecary. Witnesses say that one could hear "the grunts of battle" from outside the room. Chapter serfs claimed "There was enough "bio-mass" to feed the hive fleets for a week" after this incredible event. The rest of the chapter decided not to ask questions."

I like it. I can't stop laughing!

[Sam]

Ultras will probably be let off the hook once the SW codex gets settled in, or at the very least by the Blood Angel codex.

The hatred of Ultramarines is not a new thing, so I see no reason to expect it to go away.

[Craz]

I don't mind them. I love Sicarius. He reads like a magnificent SOB. Calgar, I just don't like.

[entendre_entendre]

I like it. I can't stop laughing!

glad you like it :)

[Schultzhoffen]

I quite like their fluff. I'm not keen on blue as an army colour. Its pretty dumb to dislike them for the 'love' GW gives them. SOME marine Chapter needed to be the par (as it were). It may as well be UM.
If Salamanders, White Scars, Blood Angels were the Chapter used as poster boys people'd hate them, too.

Stupid but true.

Who cares whether some GW staffer says they're the best? According to fluff they're quite cool, really. Each Chapter is in some way or another. Hell, all armies are!

UM are ok by me. Wouldn't play 'em but have no ill will towards 'em.

I tend to hate armies based on how badly they wreck me on the table. Eldar rate quite high. ;)

[Mystery.Shadow]

When the new GM Hummer H2 came out, everyone bought one.

When the new Dodge Charger came out, everyone bought one.

When the new Ford Mustang came out, everyone bought one.


I wanna be different. I want a Lamborghini Reventon !!

[Kefka]

|I just don't like how their fluff makes captains sound like primarchs. Even one of their successor chapters, Sons of Orar. Orar was a captain who got his own dang chapter.
I am also jealous of how many characters they specifically get. 7 of them. Some of them don't even need to be Ultramarines specifically (I'm looking at you Telion and Chronus...).
anyways, I don't hate them, just think that they are shown off a bit too much.

Also, fun fact, Ultramarine is a specific colour, before 40k was invented. So, the chapter is named after a colour, not so ultra now...

[Crevab]

Jealously? Envy? Simple Oversaturation? I guess my frustration stems from GW trumping them up so much more than everyone else. They're the best Space Marines and the tightest adherents to the Codex Astartes except it's either fluff wank or not true.

In the latest codex, a little more than half of the characters are Ultramarines. Most of the fluff and art in and on the book is Ultramarines. Hell they even insert themselves into other peoples fluff. Remember the Black Templars' big find/creation, the Land Raider Crusader? Well apparently it was the Ultramarines' approval that made it widespread.

Yes, other codices focus on a single faction in an army, but not nearly to this degree

[Lord Anubis]

Like a few other folks have said, my main grudge against the Ultramarines is that they're the "favorite sons" of GW. The models, the fluff, the special characters... it's always 60% Ultramarines and 40% every other more-or-less codex chapter.

I understand why it's this way. But I don't have to like it. ;)

[Melissia]

Lol, jealous. Call it what you want, doesn't mean jack diddly squat to me. Or to the squat named Jack Diddly.

[Morgrim]

1) I don't particularly like marines, and they are the 'standard' marines, so I have no particular reason to like them. Some other chapters have redeeming features. (Some don't. I've yet to find a reason to like Black Templars, for instance.)

2) Many of the characters seem overly full of themselves, as if their mere presence is a great honour. People who do this IRL annoy me, so most of an army doing this is not endearing. Tigurius is the only character I find interesting.

3) Guilliman wrote the Codex Astartes, claimed lots of credit for holding the Empire together... and doesn't actually seem to have done much. Sure, he was a good administrator. That sounds like someone good to have in the Minitorium, not the Astartes. He was one of the only full strength legions after the Horus Heresy... because they didn't really take part in it. They stopped a tendril of the hive fleet... and took sole credit for it when they had the full resources of a mini-empire and some outside backup helping them, and STILL lost enough that it was a pyrric victory.

4) The aforementioned mini empire. Everyone other chapter makes do with a small planet at best, and the Ultramarines get 9 star systems? Something seems seriously iffy about that.

5) They take the roman symbolism, and don't seem to DO much with it bar tossing a few laurel wreaths around. Fluff makes mention of a short sword gladius as an after note, and... well, that's it. They call their fortress Hera but that's greek. It leaves me wondering if another chapter could have used this iconography better, as a way of being unique.

[oni]

Personally, I love the Ultramarines and everything about them.

They are indeed the poster child for Warhammer 40,000, but if you look at their fluff it was destined to be so. They are recognized in the fluff as the epitome of Space Marine chapters and I don't care what anyone says, the Space Marines are what makes 40K... 40K.

I think so may players express dislike of the Ultramarines for two main reasons: 1. Because they either consciously or subconsciously want to rebel against the standard. 2. Everyone else dislikes them so I should too.

Instead of asking why people dislike the Ultramarines, I pose a new question.

Knowing that the Ultramarines are the poster child for GW and Warhammer 40,000...Would you have it any other way? :cool:

[EmperorEternalXIX]

I think so may players express dislike of the Ultramarines for two main reasons: 1. Because they either consciously or subconsciously want to rebel against the standard. 2. Everyone else dislikes them so I should too.

Instead of asking why people dislike the Ultramarines, I pose a new question. Agreed in full. As I stated before...I hate the fluff of the restrictive and non-beneficial Codex Astartes, not the Ultras themselves.

[Melissia]

Personally, I love the Ultramarines and everything about them.

They are indeed the poster child for Warhammer 40,000, but if you look at their fluff it was destined to be so. They are recognized in the fluff as the epitome of Space Marine chapters and I don't care what anyone says, the Space Marines are what makes 40K... 40K.

I think so may players express dislike of the Ultramarines for two main reasons: 1. Because they either consciously or subconsciously want to rebel against the standard. 2. Everyone else dislikes them so I should too.

Instead of asking why people dislike the Ultramarines, I pose a new question.

Knowing that the Ultramarines are the poster child for GW and Warhammer 40,000...Would you have it any other way? :cool:
Why not just have the entire Marine faction be the "poster children"? Hell, by far the most popular (at least where I am) way to do Marines is to do DIY chapters anyway. People like to create their own fluff, to make their army their own, instead of someone else's.

So produce more fluff for the other chapters. Not this seven special characters for the UMs and then ignore the iron hand entirely. Perhaps GW will eventually raise themselves up to the level of competent and produce fluff for the other factions, too.

[Fantomex]

Having the Ultramarines as poster boys is just an unfortunate byproduct of an otherwise awesome setting.
End of the day, you do need some goody two-shoes most-heroic heroes to dangle around as paragons.

I'll give them one plus in that at least now their trims are in gold rather than gaudy bright yellow.
Otherwise, I just find them to be the most unrealistic bunch of crappy story-mashing in all of 40k.

Star gods? Cool.
An alternate dimension comprised of emotional energy? I'll bite.
Genetically modified man killing molten metal god three times his size by strangling? Come again?
Same man killing a bajillion orks, those being part of a species that thrives on violence and become ever larger and more powerful through just such means? Excuse me?

Nobody could do those things.
For one, astartes are all, when you get down to it, much of a muchness. Pretty similar levels of ability. Especially Ultramarines, as they are, after all, the vanilla chapter.
So why do they have the strange units that seem to shy away from the codex astartes?

How do they have the chapter master of all chapter masters?
Why do their psychics practically rival the emperor in terms of power?
How do they have basic marines "so big, they need to use recycled terminator armour"?
How are they non-corruptible in the Eye of Terror?

I'm pretty sure they are none of this. But unfortunately, they actually are.

Like Melissia said, my beloved Iron Hands got utterly jack all from the last codex.
One picture, one model photo, and the sodding Praetors of Orpheus, another ULTRAMARINE successor, suddenly are No.2 to the Adeptus Mechanicus in terms of technological lore.

No, you are not.
The Iron Hands, however, most certainly are.
I believe that practically the only chapter that has some proper Mechanicum friendliness would be something to comment upon.

Hell, if anything, they're the perfect posterboys for what 40k is really like.
Tough enough and angry enough to try and cut the Horus Heresy off at the start, realise they're doomed, so fight all the harder. And still kick plenty of arse against SEVEN legions..
Ahem, Calgar? This takes real balls..

Grim and dark, angry, an integration with machines, an awesome primarch, some bad times, some proper antiheroics, kicking out against weakness..
Ahh, this is what 40k needs..

</rant>

[mercer]

I used to like U.M's but I've kind of gone off them now.

Reason is I've read the Ultramarine Omnibus and everything is OTT in it. Makes them these unstoppable good as gold troops, even says in a small story with Honsou in it, was in the heroes of space marines, every chapter has a renegade where he went - except ultramarines. He saw no ultramarines lined up at all. Just makes them goody two shoes and all good and noble.

[Lord Azaghul]

Actual as far as poster boys go...I think that reason is a load of crap. One of the few 40k posters in my local stores game room is a picture of a guardsman blasting away on his lasgun screaming. With the words "we're pushing them back". Favorate son? No SM in general are gw favorate son, why, cause that's what people buy. Why are they blue? Old star trek saying: If you can't make it good, make it blue.
They just look cool! I don't own a SM army, but I'm pretty dang sure my next army will be SM, and yes then will be blue!

[Jay Biga]

I find it hilarious that so many people consider those who are the most Imperial of all that is the Imperium, to be good and noble.
Seriously, have you guys even read the fluff? The Imperium makes **** Germany multiplied with Stalinist Russia look like kindergarten.

You wanna hate them? Fine, but do it for the right reasons.

[Melissia]

Most people don't die at the hands of an Inquisitor. There aren't enough Inquisitors to kill that many people. No, most people die of disease, old age, riots, pollution, muggings, strange creatures using them as dinner, etc.

[murrburger]

I don't like them because of how much glory and honour they have for not really having done anything. The last great impact they had on things was the codex Astartes. They haven't participated in any major wars. (Except the Tyranid invasion, and the Gulf Crusade - which they lost)

I don't like how they have their own empire, which has the highest standard of living in the Imperium. I don't like how they organise their own military forces, (their standing armies and successor chapters) and how the rules set in place to prevent one man from controlling too big a force (Why the legions and the Imperial Army were split up) somehow don't apply to them.

I don't like their name. Is it a pun, or what?

[Crevab]

Puns? In 40k?

I am Primarch Iron Hands of the Iron Hands and I have Iron Hands!

[Lord Azaghul]

I don't like how they have their own empire, which has the highest standard of living in the Imperium. I don't like how they organise their own military forces, (their standing armies and successor chapters) and how the rules set in place to prevent one man from controlling too big a force (Why the legions and the Imperial Army were split up) somehow don't apply to them.

I don't like their name. Is it a pun, or what?

You make Ultramar sound like such I wonderful place. I can't wait for space/time travel to be invented so I can move there! Go Blue!

[Grotzooka]

After some thought I find I must agree about the over-the-topness of some of the fluff, but it's not limited to the Ultras, is it? What about Lysander? Got captured by Chaos, held on a fortress world for years, escaped and fought his way out with his bare hands, wound back up with his old Chapter, got tested for taint and was pronounced uncorrupted? That's hardly run of the mill.

[Kahoolin]

Puns? In 40k?

I am Primarch Iron Hands of the Iron Hands and I have Iron Hands!OK I've never in my whole internet career written these words but now is the time:

LOL!

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I dont hate them as its hard to hate fictional things, but I do find them boring. But then I find pretty much all the mainstream "preset/template" armies boring regardless of the army they originate from. I simply just prefer to see people be imaginative even if its a little, and make up their own craftworlds/chapters/warbands/klans/tombworlds ect ect you get the picture. I want to fight something that someones put creativity and a bit of imagination into, it feels more personal and more "real" and as such its a whole lot more fun (for me).

[murrburger]

After some thought I find I must agree about the over-the-topness of some of the fluff, but it's not limited to the Ultras, is it? What about Lysander? Got captured by Chaos, held on a fortress world for years, escaped and fought his way out with his bare hands, wound back up with his old Chapter, got tested for taint and was pronounced uncorrupted? That's hardly run of the mill.

Don't forget he also destroys Titans by running up to them and hitting them with hammers.

[Duke]

The things that I don't like about the Ultras are:

1. The only reason they had a strong force after the Heresy is cause they didn't fight... How is that an honour badge?

2. Their name is almost rediculous.

3. they haven't done much of anything except accidently getting in the way of a hive fleet.

[keithsilva]

The things that I don't like about the Ultras are:

1. The only reason they had a strong force after the Heresy is cause they didn't fight... How is that an honour badge? .

and this is why

When Horus finally declared his treachery against the Emperor, he had ordered the Ultramarines Legion to go to the Veridan System in Segmentum Tempestus far to the galactic south, claiming that the system was under attack by an Ork invasion force from the Ghaslakh Empire. Roboute Guilliman ordered his troops to depart at once and set course for Ultramar, so he could meet up with more of his forces and get supplies. Ultramar was close enough for an assault against Veridan, so Roboute ordered his Legion to assemble in the Calth System.

As Roboute and his fleets arrived at Calth, they instantly knew something was wrong, because none of their Astropaths could get messages through the warp and storms were interfering with the navigation of their ships; they were blocked from the rest of the Imperium. It was at this moment that the traitor forces of the Word Bearers Legion attacked, rendering the Ultramarines unable to participate in much of the Battle for Terra.

Upon learning of the treachery, Roboute immediately set course for Terra, destroying Chaos reinforcements along the way, but arrived after the war had already been won. Because of this, the Ultramarines were one of the few Legions at full strength; thus, Roboute and his Ultramarines bore much of the burden of holding the Imperium together against aliens and Chaos forces. During this time, the Ultramarines recruited heavily from their homeworld and eventually counted for over half of the Loyalist Marines. Around a decade after the Heresy ended, the Imperium finally reached a point of stability.

[Duke]

I know the fluff, I just dont think it is a point of honour. Their actions after the heresy finished are honourable but when it comes down to it they weren't there.

Duke

[Melissia]

One could even say that the smurflings actually had the least honor of the loyalist chapters because of this; for a group of warriors such as the Astartes, honor is gained through combat.

[Cryl]

That the UMs weren't at Terra is more an indication that Horus didn't want to fight them than their lack of honour. Possibly it could have been any of the legions that he diverted but it wasn't, it was the Ultramarines. Coincidence or not it wasn't a lack of desire or intent to save the Imperium that stopped them being at Terra (they're not the "wait and see who wins" Dark Angels after all) they (at the time) were just as imperial as any of the truely loyal legions (Imperial Fists, Blood Angels etc).

Also RG was logistics expert which is exactly what the Imperium needed after the heresy, this probably helps boost the rep, that and that 2/3 of geneseed comes from the UMs.

In the 40k era (as opposed to 30k) the UMs are looked upon as highly honourable becasue of the way they conduct themselves. All the chapters have become weird parodies of themselves and what they originally stood for, (Imperial Fists with pain gloves for example) the UMs have simply become more and more structured and rigid in what they accept for no reason other than traditions have warped over time, to the outsider this rigidity can be seen as honourable.

[Duke]

One could even say that the smurflings actually had the least honor of the loyalist chapters because of this; for a group of warriors such as the Astartes, honor is gained through combat.

My point exactley... Saying "He was scared of us so he sent us away," doesn't matter, you still weren't there.

@Cryl: in the current timeline the UM's have done some pretty cool stuff, but Im sure your tight that they are looked up to because they 'hold the line,' with tradition (heck they wrote the book on it, lol) In a time where being dogmatic is the greatest thing ever the Ultras are the paragon.


Duke

[DarkLink]

I think is has to do more with how they virtually held the Imperium together singlehandedly (according to GW) after the heresy. They might not have gotten any brownie points for not fighting Horus, but they sure did when they saved everyone else afterwards.

And, of course, there's that whole 10,000 year period after that, where they're considered (according to GW) to be the biggest baddest SM chapter for that whole time period. That probably doesn't hurt their rep.

[Marshal2Crusaders]

The Heresy was not a short amount of time, Horus didn't get from Isstvan to Terra in a few weeks, and Calth did not last months. There is a timeline invdescrepency for what the Ultra's were doing between driving off the Word Bearers and heading towards Terra.


The Ultra's wern't big before the Heresy, its after the Heresy they rose to prominence. And if you hate the Ultra's for not being at Terra then you should hate the Salamanders, Raven Guard, Space Wolves, etc... They wern't there either. You dont? Well then your just nit picking reasons to dislike the UM's... If you don;t like the UM's dislike them because Romans arnt your thing, not because they are the greatest of the Space Marines, thats just petty jealousy.

[Melissia]

To reiterate my own position (seeing as my playign devil's advocate may have confused some simple-minded people :P), I don't hate the smurflings any more than I hate the puppies, vamps, emos, and the E.A.Poe wannabes (which is also putting it too strongly, I don't really give a crap and mostly just mock them because it amuses me).

I mock them all simply for being Marines in the first place; members of an overdone and overhyped faction whose core concepts have become so ubiquitous throughout the entire sci-fi genre that they're now one of its biggest cliches-- and since papa smurf and his merry band of smurflings is pushed so damned hard as the ideal Marines that all other Marines look up to (it's their words, not mine)... well, I think you can add two and two.

[Sangre]

Because of course the Sisters are so much better, being essentially Space Marines with tits.

[Melissia]

That interpretation rather blatantly shows your underlying lack of understanding of the Sororitas AND the Astartes, but whatever floats your boat dude.

[Marshal2Crusaders]

Because of course the Sisters are so much better, being essentially Space Marines with tits.
:D LOL :D




That interpretation rather blatantly shows your underlying lack of understanding of the Sororitas AND the Astartes, but whatever floats your boat dude.

Oh, well those of us who are simple minded ;) have to make things easier for us to understand.

[Sangre]

That interpretation rather blatantly shows your underlying lack of understanding of the Sororitas AND the Astartes, but whatever floats your boat dude.

You've got a rather serious blind spot when it comes to seeing when you're being gently wound up. C'mon, the sisters are alright, even if they do somewhat resemble a whole army of psycho ex-girlfriends.

[Melissia]

Sarcasm does not exist on the internet, therefor you must obviously have meant everything you said in the most literal fashion.

So I take it this thread is dead?

[eagleboy7259]

1. The only reason they had a strong force after the Heresy is cause they didn't fight... How is that an honour badge?


I don't think anyone mentioned this yet but didn't the Ultras get assaulted in Ultramar by the Word Bearers at the time the Horus Heresy was going on?

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ultramarines

I hate them as any army to look at or to seen played on the board, but even before 5th ed came out the Smurfs had some pretty neat fluff. To my knowledge, Roboute Guilliman was the only loyal Primarch to successfully kill a traitor Primarch, Alpharius of the Alpha Legion, even if he did get a beating by Fulgrim. Sure Logan once broke Magnus's back but for the most part the rest of the loyal Primarchs look like wimps compared to the traitors. I'd say we just have to wait for Guilliman to heal and come back to us at the Smurftime and then the Imperium can take its rightful place in the galaxy once again, but if Calgar can eat Avatars for breakfast who really needs him?

[Sangre]

Sarcasm does not exist on the internet, therefor you must obviously have meant everything you said in the most literal fashion.

So I take it this thread is dead?

Are they all as fun as you in America?

[Melissia]

Yes. We are out to ruin the world and rid the world of fun. Banality is our keyword.

(and if you can get the reference, cookie for you)

[Sangre]

Ruining the world, one Sister at a time.

[Ivarr]

One could even say that the smurflings actually had the least honor of the loyalist chapters because of this; for a group of warriors such as the Astartes, honor is gained through combat.

Are we forgetting that the Dark Angels abstained from the war until they saw who won? Then to cover for his cowardice, Lion El'Jonson declared a portion of his own chapter heretics and Nuked his own home world. I don't think that you can possibly compare the Ultramarines being manipulated by the traitorous Warmaster and right hand of the Emperor less honorable that that.

[Melissia]

Yeah, and the Dark Angels are eternally shamed for their actions.

[eagleboy7259]

Are we forgetting that the Dark Angels abstained from the war until they saw who won? Then to cover for his cowardice, Lion El'Jonson declared a portion of his own chapter heretics and Nuked his own home world. I don't think that you can possibly compare the Ultramarines being manipulated by the traitorous Warmaster and right hand of the Emperor less honorable that that.

Didn't Horus order the Night Lords to intercept the Dark Angels while they were campaigning far off on the eastern fringe. They were only able to reach Terra after the Space Puppies and Ultrasmurfs had already arrived. If you look at the map of the 40k universe, both Prospero (where the space wolves were fighting the Thousand Sons) and Ultramar are much closer than the shield worlds. Its understandable why they couldn't get there in time.

As far as the Lion declaring the garrison on Caliban traitor: you make it sound like it was a cover up for DA inaction during the Heresy. The traitors shot first, Luther was a god dang demon prince... I think thats enough of an excuse for not participating much in the reorganization of the Imperium.

[Duke]

Just wanted to sayt that the direction this thread has gone is very funny.

First of it is titled "So, why don't you like Ultramarines," then when people talk about why they don't like them they get the flamer.

As far as it all goes it all comes down to the fact that I am a BA guy. I like Ultras just as much as anyone else (who doesn't play them). The onyl thing I seriously don't like is their name.

Duke

[Lord Azaghul]

. C'mon, the sisters are alright, even if they do somewhat resemble a whole army of psycho ex-girlfriends.


HEHE - I'll never look at that army the same!

[Dark_Templar]

Why not just have the entire Marine faction be the "poster children"? Hell, by far the most popular (at least where I am) way to do Marines is to do DIY chapters anyway. People like to create their own fluff, to make their army their own, instead of someone else's.


So do you suggest the marine codex is printed in black and white to avoid arguing about which chapter the guy on the cover belongs to?

[Melissia]

There is a difference between being on the front cover and having the fluff so ridiculously biased towards the chapter that it's almost as if GW's upper level staff are all members of Calgar's personal man-harem.

[Grotzooka]

Calgar's personal man-harem.

AAAAUUUGGGHH!! Horrific mental images!:eek:

[Old_Paladin]

AAAAUUUGGGHH!! Horrific mental images!:eek:

It's not too bad.
The process of becoming a marine tends to chemically neuter them (and years of psycho-conditioning removes the rest of those 'feelings').
Being in his harem, likely means good protection and a fun and stress free life.

[Melissia]

Right, they just fluff his pillows at night, give him cookies and milk, and read his bedtime stories.

[Old_Paladin]

Right, they just fluff his pillows at night, give him cookies and milk, and read his bedtime stories.

LOL :D
And, of course, those bedtime stories are about how awesome he is, and how he can kick the crap out of everybody, and how over half of the named marines are from his chapter (cuz it's the best chapter with all the coolest people).

[Sangre]

There is a difference between being on the front cover and having the fluff so ridiculously biased towards the chapter that it's almost as if GW's upper level staff are all members of Calgar's personal man-harem.

Fair being fair, they are the poster boys for the army. Say what you like about those Ultrasmurfs, but the "12 year old with daddy's wallet" demographic seem to go nuts for them.

[Melissia]

Probably because they're too stupid to realize they have an alternative.

[Grotzooka]

Probably because they're too stupid to realize they have an alternative.

Which alternative is this? If you get into the game wanting to pay giant superhuman shocktroops in massive suits of armor with tons of cool models and tanks and stuff, there aren't many alternitives that I can think of.

[Melissia]

You mean you can honstly not think of alternatives to Ultramarines? Because, you know, no other chapter exists that qualifies as "giant superhuman shocktroops in massive suits of armor with tons of cool models and tanks and stuff", right?

[Grotzooka]

You mean you can honstly not think of alternatives to Ultramarines? Because, you know, no other chapter exists that qualifies as "giant superhuman shocktroops in massive suits of armor with tons of cool models and tanks and stuff", right?

So tell me. Please?

[Old_Paladin]

So tell me. Please?

Iron Hands every once and a while would be nice, Salamanders too.
With this last codex, it really should have been Sallies. There's a new raider that suits them, they got a cool new special character.
The cover could have had green marines blasting away with lots of flame and melta, with a salamder pack or firedrake eating some traitor scum.

[fuzzbuket]

luckly i see less blue smurfs at my local GW

sadly i see more unpainted smurfs at the gw

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

So tell me. Please?

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Space_Marine_Chapters

[MarshalAdamar]

They're the poster boys. The boy scouts with the holier-than-thou attitude AND the quasi-heretical autonomous pseudo-empire out in the Eastern Fringe.

Don't all the chapters have a "Holier-than-thou" attitude?

[Lerra]

Templars and Grey Knights are very "holier than thou", but Blood Angels are just crazy, Wolves are too busy being badass to bother with being holy, and Dark Angels are the Unforgiven Emo Marines.

[Nabterayl]

Maybe not holier-than-thou, but most marines have a better-than-thou attitude, certainly.

[Melissia]

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Space_Marine_Chapters
I believe this deserves a Q.E.D.

[Duke]

Maybe not holier-than-thou, but most marines have a better-than-thou attitude, certainly.

Too true, but after all the psycho-conditioning they go through who wouldn't think like that.

Duke

[Melissia]

Shouldn't think like that, yes, but GW's writers don't think logically when writing out the personality of a mindwiped killer.

[Grotzooka]

Because, you know, no other chapter exists that qualifies...

BLAST! I totally didn't see the word "chapter" in there. I thought, for some reason, that you said "no other ARMY exists"... I am sorry, of course I can think of other chapters. Feth, I feel stupid now.

[imperialsavant]

Feth, I feel stupid now.

:D Ahhh, I see you have been reading far too many Gaunts Ghosts Novels! You have picked up Tanith slang! lol :p