Xbox One

[DrLove42]

So...more powerful than the PS4, Blu-Ray, Silnet Running...and Xbox Live will have more servers than there were computers in 1999....

[Wildeybeast]

So far all I've heard is utter bilge. It's a bad day to be a gamer when a TV guide is a bigger feature to show than games.

[Wildeybeast]

No price, no release date, no specific hardware details, a bunch of stuff about being able to watch TV and use IE at the same time, EA selling EA sports and yet another CoD game (neither with any actual gameplay footage) = Sony's stock (http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=SNE) goes through the roof. Well done MS

[Wrath of Azkaellon]

Guess they're waiting for E3 for the games releases. So it's not going to be always online but apparently there is going to be a fee to play used games.

[Kirsten]

didn't bother watching the reveal, got plenty of time to learn all about it. I will say it looks like it was made in the 80s though. does it take beta max?

[DrLove42]

No price, no release date, no specific hardware details, a bunch of stuff about being able to watch TV and use IE at the same time, EA selling EA sports and yet another CoD game (neither with any actual gameplay footage) = Sony's stock (http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=SNE) goes through the roof. Well done MS



As opposed to the PS4 reveal that didnt evn show the console or any games that weren't CGI and weren't running on the console and just showed that they can record video and share it straight to youtube

This was never going to be about games it was only about hardware. E3 is for the games

Timed exclusive CoD content, 15 exclusives in year 1, 8 new unique IPs....Microsoft was a lot better here than Sony were.

[Wrath of Azkaellon]

Primarily a PC gamer here but I do like to have one console to mix it up now and then. It's been the 360 across the current gen but I do feel myself gravitating towards Sony for the next gen more than Microsoft. What happens at E3 is going to be the decider for me.

[jgebi]

I don't like how it looks and for a pc who cares but for a console I don't just gloss over looks, and I don't believe it would or could have more power then the PS4

[Psychosplodge]

I'll just leave this (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23pcgamingmasterrace) and this (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23PCMasterRace&src=hash) here :D

#PCGamingMasterRace


http://youtu.be/KbWgUO-Rqcw

[DarkLink]

Yes, I don't think you'll find a console gamer who would contest the fact that PC gamers are the best at playing WOW 24/7 hunched over their keyboards in their parent's basement.

[Psychosplodge]

lol
enjoy the 2011 graphics on the new systems :D

[DrLove42]

I forgot that every cross platform game sold more on PC's than consoles

Oh

No

Wait

They don't.

PC gamers generally need to get off their high horse and realise that people don't give damn about their higher specs or stuff, just want to play games and generally play all formats

You don't see anyone saying "I own a *BLANK* that automaticaly makes me better than anyone who chooses an alternative"

[Wolfshade]

My problem with the Xbox is if I need to use connect then I would need to re-arrange my lounge and that is not something that I would like to do.
Having said that I think having a working demo is a brilliant stroke of genius which PS4 should have done, rather than using pre-rendered shots run though a demo pc.
I'll just await my HMC.

Edit:

Also now using the x86 architecture it will make it easier to cross platform. Up until now most ported games are hideous, or at least not optimised. One of my biggest gripes is having to flick through all the menu options rather than just being able to click the menu item I want.. grumble.
There were similiar issues with games being ported the other way.

[Psychosplodge]

lol of course they don't when they've been poorly porting console versions across to it :D


I wish I could find you the quote I saw yesterday, it was something along the lines of

The playstation four is better than the new xbox one as four's a bigger number

Until a console can play a proper strategy game mine will sit gathering dust...

Anyway enjoy the race for second place :p

[Mr Mystery]

Not convinced by it.....

Kinect? Pointless for me. Tiny flat is tiny. And if I started jumping around, I'd brain myself on the ceiling. Oh, and the device is always listening to you when it's on...creepy, and an invasion of my privacy!

Blu-Ray? So has PS3. Well done you.

The rest? Meh, meh, meh and meh. Got to go online to bung in a code? No ta. Restricting second hand games? No ta.

What's that? I can use IE and watch telly at the same time? You mean...a bit like having my laptop on my knee whilst watching the tellybox? How innovative of you......

[Psychosplodge]

PC gamers generally need to get off their high horse and realise that people don't give damn about their higher specs or stuff, just want to play games and generally play all formats

You don't see anyone saying "I own a *BLANK* that automaticaly makes me better than anyone who chooses an alternative"

Sorry Doc, just re-read that, every console argument ever has been a pissing contest about specs, it only stops mattering when there's a clear winner ;)

plus most of us do own consoles as well...

[Kirsten]

I have a PC, 360, and PS3, they are all great and all have their pro's and cons. I would be quite surprised if I didn't end up getting both the One and the 4 at some point, will depend on the games.

[Wolfshade]

Sorry Doc, just re-read that, every console argument ever has been a pissing contest about specs, it only stops mattering when there's a clear winner ;)

plus most of us do own consoles as well...

The clear winner is of course a Titan by Cray...

[Wolfshade]

Double post is double

[Psychosplodge]

The clear winner is of course a Titan by Cray...

Just get two...

[Wolfshade]

Certainly wouldn't need central heating for my house...

[Kirsten]

one thing I don't like is this push to incorporate all sorts of media. both the xbox and PS are going to have so much extra stuff tacked on. each one is a one stop entertainment hub, like every other piece of tech in my house these days...
can I just have one that plays games?

[Psychosplodge]

you want a Wii U then...

[Wolfshade]

you want a Wii U then...

If only that had games...
Otherwise it is just a lovefilm HD streamer ;)

[Psychosplodge]

If only that had games...
Otherwise it is just a lovefilm HD streamer ;)

Then I'd be all

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbuc8oESVf1rv8jpzo1_500.gif

[DarkLink]

Sorry Doc, just re-read that, every console argument ever has been a pissing contest about specs, it only stops mattering when there's a clear winner ;)


Spec arguments are red herrings. It's the games that matter. The 360 has outsold the PS3 despite generally weaker hardware, and the Wii outsold them both. And when it's a contest between a few thousand dollars for a good gaming PC vs a few hundred for a plug and play console... unless computers are your hobby or you've got no life, there really isn't much of a contest.

[Wildeybeast]

As opposed to the PS4 reveal that didnt evn show the console or any games that weren't CGI and weren't running on the console and just showed that they can record video and share it straight to youtube

This was never going to be about games it was only about hardware. E3 is for the games

Timed exclusive CoD content, 15 exclusives in year 1, 8 new unique IPs....Microsoft was a lot better here than Sony were.

Better than Sony's launch is damning with faint praise. They told you next to nothing about the hardware. They spent roughly to twenty to 30 minutes telling you about how you can watch TV on it, whilst no doubt getting a shameless kick back for saying 'Star Trek' as many times as possible.



Having said that I think having a working demo is a brilliant stroke of genius which PS4 should have done, rather than using pre-rendered shots run though a demo pc.
I'll just await my HMC.

It is not a stroke of genius, it is basic business sense. In virtually any other context, launching a product without the actual product is business suicide.

The biggest issue is MS massively mis-pitched this. Whilst having an all-round entertainment system will sell well and opens up a new market, the people who care about that are not the people who tune in to watch a live-streamed product launch. The hardcore gamers are and the only bones they got tossed were an EA sports commercial and the oh so exciting news that CoD now has dogs with much more realistic looking fur. I get that they will hold most of the game news back for E3, but they failed one of the most basic business tests of knowing your market.

[Wolfshade]

I was being facetiousness...

[DarkLink]

http://v.cdn.cad-comic.com/comics/cad-20130522-53fec.png

[Bitrider]

didn't bother watching the reveal, got plenty of time to learn all about it. I will say it looks like it was made in the 80s though. does it take beta max?

Beige-box betamax indeed. :(

[Deadlift]

I know I'm getting one.

[Uncle Nutsy]

Yes, I don't think you'll find a console gamer who would contest the fact that PC gamers are the best at playing WOW 24/7 hunched over their keyboards in their parent's basement.


Now come on. :) Don't ya think that's a bit of a blanket statement? there are some of us pc gamers that play stuff like Borderlands. :) looove that loot n shoot.

[eldargal]

Yes, I don't think you'll find a console gamer who would contest the fact that PC gamers are the best at playing WOW 24/7 hunched over their keyboards in their parent's basement.
Also better for the following:

Everything.

:p

But seriously any game that can be modded is better on PC plus any game that would benefit from a inventory and interfacce system that it isn'y clumsy. I know a lot of people who went out and bought gaming PCs after playing Skyrim on a console for example, because they wanted to use mods. If you just want to play an FPS without worrying about specs then a console is better.

I forgot that every cross platform game sold more on PC's than consoles

Oh

No

Wait

They don't.

PC gamers generally need to get off their high horse and realise that people don't give damn about their higher specs or stuff, just want to play games and generally play all formats

You don't see anyone saying "I own a *BLANK* that automaticaly makes me better than anyone who chooses an alternative"
Might have something to do with the fact that the ports are often bad and the graphics rubbish.

PCs are better systems, but that does't matter if you just want to play games and have fun. I can see the advantage of having a console and use my brothers when there is a game I want to play but it isn't on PC. Or the port is terrible (Force Unleashed). Doesn't make anyone better than anyone else.

[DarkLink]

But seriously any game that can be modded is better on PC plus any game that would benefit from a inventory and interfacce system that it isn'y clumsy. I know a lot of people who went out and bought gaming PCs after playing Skyrim on a console for example, because they wanted to use mods. If you just want to play an FPS without worrying about specs then a console is better.

Dark Souls is better than Skyrim anyways, and the control scheme would be super-awkward on a PC. Though Dark Souls could use a better system for swapping magic on the fly, it's too awkward to select your spell and have to swap out your weapon for your magic focus and have such limited ammo.

FPS I can understand, some people just prefer the mouse, though I find the second joystick and well-placed buttons are so much better than a keyboard that you trade one weakness for another, so it's really a wash. RTS, too, I guess, though I played Halo Wars and the controls for that worked great even if the game itself was average. For pretty much everything else, joysticks beat keyboards.



Might have something to do with the fact that the ports are often bad and the graphics rubbish.


So PC games are better and have better graphics, except when they aren't :p? But seriously, how much does a high end gaming computer cost? A lot more than a console. A lot more. I can buy a game console and be playing games in as short a time it takes me to plug it into my TV for a fraction of the cost of just the computer, let alone the additional cost of buying the PC games and the time it takes to install them and download patches and all that stuff. And console graphics are still pretty freakin' good. Halo 4 is a beautiful thing, literally speaking. That much extra money to go from great graphics to really great graphics is something for hardcore gamers only, usually.

[eldargal]

It would be super awkward 'cos console interfaces have to be quite basic as they are limited by the controller.:p

Pc games are better and have better graphics when they are designed to run on a PC and take advantage of its generally superior capabilies.:p It's not just about better graphics either, as mentioned above re: modding.

[Wolfshade]

It is all horses for causes.

You can't make a direct comparison between PC & console because they are used for other things.

I use my PC for work, internet browsing, tv streaming, all manner of other things other than just gaming.

If you only play FPS games then the two are of a par, if and only if the game is written for both types or is ported very well. (How not to port: http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/02/02/stop-making-horrible-console-ports-a-guide/)

Yes the intial cost of a high end pc is higher, but could provide a more pretty environment (again assuming that the game has the capability to maximise the hardware to the fullest). Though brought a PC back in 2003 for uni and with about £100 of upgrades over the last 10 years, more if you include the hard drives which were used for media storage and I can still use it to play the latest released games.
On a point on prices consider assassins creed 4 black flag, Xbox PS3 price £40, PC £36 (all from amazon, yes I know you could probably get it cheaper elsewhere) but the point is how many games do you buy before that price difference is signficiant.

I prefer (grand) strategy games and those don't appear on consoles because a joypad cannot cope with the interface demands. That is not a criticism, that is just the way it is.

[Psychosplodge]

Spec arguments are red herrings. It's the games that matter. The 360 has outsold the PS3 despite generally weaker hardware, and the Wii outsold them both. And when it's a contest between a few thousand dollars for a good gaming PC vs a few hundred for a plug and play console... unless computers are your hobby or you've got no life, there really isn't much of a contest.

Only if you buy off the shelf. Any idiot can build one these days for a fraction of the price.


I know I'm getting one.

What happened to deadpanda?

[Kirsten]

the more I learn about it the less impressed I am, I really think they are shooting themselves in the foot.
you have to connect to the internet at least once a day
you have to have a Kinect
you cannot turn off the Kinect microphone
you cannot borrow games from friends
it has no backwards compatibility
you have to install every game
you will have to pay extra for preowned games.

none of that appeals, it really seems like they are trying to dictate far too much.

[Psychosplodge]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/d3acbe35395fdab70594eb54aae2527d/tumblr_mn8c0mJr6A1qeculyo1_500.png

[Mr Mystery]

the more I learn about it the less impressed I am, I really think they are shooting themselves in the foot.
you have to connect to the internet at least once a day
you have to have a Kinect
you cannot turn off the Kinect microphone
you cannot borrow games from friends
it has no backwards compatibility
you have to install every game
you will have to pay extra for preowned games.

none of that appeals, it really seems like they are trying to dictate far too much.

Yup. Plus, it's another XBox. Everyone still remembers the fun and games they had with the RedRing360 yes? Except this time around, your Kinect will probably take it turns to die....

[Kyban]

I have all of them,
Got the wii for christmas and barely used it (seriously, it has to be the most bought, least used console ever),
Got a PS3 because it was the cheapest blu-ray player at the time,
I use the 360 the most due to convenience and the fact that most of my friends have one but don't have gaming computers (and I haven't gotten a redring in years),
and I have a really good gaming PC that I can hook a 360 controller up to if the game uses one well.

It really comes down to the situation when I use the 360 vs PC but if the Xbox One is going to be expensive and a pain to move, etc.. it starts losing any value it has over a PC. Supposedly it won't even be back compatible with 360 games either...

[Deadlift]

What happened to deadpanda?

He died

[Psychosplodge]

He died

oh noes

[Kirsten]

Yup. Plus, it's another XBox. Everyone still remembers the fun and games they had with the RedRing360 yes? Except this time around, your Kinect will probably take it turns to die....

I wouldn't be concerned about that personally, I have had two xboxs, not because of faults but simply upgrading. I had a hard drive go earlier in the year but the store I bought the xbox from swapped it for free. Microsoft have come a long way from the early horrendously dodgy consoles.

[Bitrider]

the more I learn about it the less impressed I am, I really think they are shooting themselves in the foot.
you have to connect to the internet at least once a day
...
none of that appeals, it really seems like they are trying to dictate far too much.

THIS! I am soooo tired of games (PC and console) and game systems requiring you to be online to play them. Even classic single player games are now transitioning to 'must be connected to the interwebs' to play. It sucks.

[Kirsten]

THIS! I am soooo tired of games (PC and console) and game systems requiring you to be online to play them. Even classic single player games are now transitioning to 'must be connected to the interwebs' to play. It sucks.

yeah, I was in the local game store when star craft 2 first came out, a twelve ish year old kid was in there very upset returning his copy of starcraft 2 because they had no internet connection home. he was a huge fan of the original, had waited years for the sequel, and couldn't play it. I was as gutted as he was, I just wanted to buy him an internet. Really pointless, no need at all to be online to play that. Same with the new SimCity, that was an unmitigated disaster.

[Bitrider]

yeah, I was in the local game store when star craft 2 first came out, a twelve ish year old kid was in there very upset returning his copy of starcraft 2 because they had no internet connection home. he was a huge fan of the original, had waited years for the sequel, and couldn't play it. I was as gutted as he was, I just wanted to buy him an internet. Really pointless, no need at all to be online to play that. Same with the new SimCity, that was an unmitigated disaster.

Mine was Diablo 3. I am a huge fan of D1 and D2. I loved D2. I was hugely disappointed.

[Psychosplodge]

yeah, I was in the local game store when star craft 2 first came out, a twelve ish year old kid was in there very upset returning his copy of starcraft 2 because they had no internet connection home. he was a huge fan of the original, had waited years for the sequel, and couldn't play it. I was as gutted as he was, I just wanted to buy him an internet. Really pointless, no need at all to be online to play that. Same with the new SimCity, that was an unmitigated disaster.

Did you hear about the recent tournament hosted by the developer that suffered from lag issues because the didn't include a LAN mode? *head desk*

[Kirsten]

One thing I want to know about the next xbox, you need to be online everyday, but does that mean you need a gold account for xbox live? My brother has a profile on my xbox, he has never gone gold because he doesn't need to. Would I have to buy him a subscription for him to be able to play? Wouldn't put it past them.

[Kyban]

At least it won't be a hardware issue so they can fix it when the outrage and poor sales hit...

I wonder if the gold account pricing will change, down to free would be nice but it'll probably be more since they're running more servers now.:(

[Kirsten]

they have already confirmed they will still charge for gold. I don't mind paying for it at the moment, it is far easier to navigate than the playstation store in my opinion, and has a great range of games. the hard drive has been full on my playstation for the last few years too so I have used the xbox far more. All in all the nextbox just doesn't appeal right now, will take a really great game/s to sway me.

[Psychosplodge]

Assuming this is from the people that brought you the wonderful PS4 abridged

enjoy


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KOxdMQhDMIU

[Wrath of Azkaellon]

Saw this earlier, pretty funny. Though the PS4 one was more amusing.

[Psychosplodge]

Well there were more games ported from the PS3 to mock...

[Uncle Nutsy]

the more I learn about it the less impressed I am, I really think they are shooting themselves in the foot.
you have to connect to the internet at least once a day
you have to have a Kinect
you cannot turn off the Kinect microphone
you cannot borrow games from friends
it has no backwards compatibility
you have to install every game
you will have to pay extra for preowned games.

none of that appeals, it really seems like they are trying to dictate far too much.

We already do that with our PC's. Adding an xbox won't make a difference.
It's built in.
They might add that in, but why is that important?
That would kind of suck, but we'll deal.
Not that big of a deal.
We already do that on our existing consoles. moot point.
Most games suck these days, so that's not a huge loss.

[Kirsten]

We already do that with our PC's. Adding an xbox won't make a difference.
It's built in.
They might add that in, but why is that important?
That would kind of suck, but we'll deal.
Not that big of a deal.
We already do that on our existing consoles. moot point.
Most games suck these days, so that's not a huge loss.

we don't have to do it with our PCs, having a Kinect will push cost up a lot, it is important because the microphone is always listening. backwards compatibility would save a lot of space. not everybody installs games currently. 'most games suck' is utterly subjective nonsense.

[Psychosplodge]

Most games sucking is exactly why people don't want to pay RRP for them. Who really wants to pay full price this years reskin of modern military shooter15? :D

And I'm sure EA love that there's fifty copies of the newest fifa in every CEX you go in.

[Wolfshade]

And football manger n+1

That reminds me the last football game I played was Fifa World Cup 98....

[Kirsten]

same here, I enjoyed 98. I played a lot of super soccer, and international superstar soccer on the snes, played a lot of world cup 98 on the PC, then never got round to more. I tried playing both the fifa and PES demos last year, and couldn't understand any bit of them.

[Wolfshade]

same here, I enjoyed 98. I played a lot of super soccer, and international superstar soccer on the snes, played a lot of world cup 98 on the PC, then never got round to more. I tried playing both the fifa and PES demos last year, and couldn't understand any bit of them.

You have to get your sprites to kick the ball into the back of the net more than the opposition...

[Psychosplodge]

Sensible soccer was the greatest football game ever till they tried making a 3d one with big heads.

[Kirsten]

yeah but that was the impossible bit, the controls were a nightmare and the demos had no tutorial at all, which is a major failure for something designed to get people interested in your game.

[Psychosplodge]

The assumption is you've played the previous years version so already know the buttons >_<

[Kirsten]

yes, and assumption is the mother of all f**kups

[Psychosplodge]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/99760100b6939f4a8cf7730bf8da7ca4/tumblr_mn62ibOy7n1rwq2jto1_500.png

http://24.media.tumblr.com/9c4caaf3604b4edecc0cabfcaf7148ad/tumblr_mn62ibOy7n1rwq2jto2_500.png

[Kirsten]

ha, awesome

[Kirsten]

one advantage of PC gaming is there are fewer restraints on what developers can do with a game because they are not building to a set tech level. I am a big fan of the Sniper Elite games, and apparently the second game, V2, is a lot smaller on consoles because they just can't handle the huge levels and massive draw distances, so the levels had to be edited. Plus the German Zombies dlc is absolutely fantastic, and PC exclusive.

[Bitrider]

Sensible soccer was the greatest football game ever till they tried making a 3d one with big heads.

Going to go with Madden12 being the best football game ever.

[Kirsten]

that isn't football, that is handegg

http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd380/KirstenIGMB/football-handegg_zpse2e1b52e.jpg (http://s1216.photobucket.com/user/KirstenIGMB/media/football-handegg_zpse2e1b52e.jpg.html)

[Wolfshade]

that isn't football, that is handegg

Brilliant, couldn't have said it better...

[Wildeybeast]

So, two little gems to induce rage (assuming they are true). MS has killed the 2nd hand market http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/publishers-to-receive-cut-of-xbox-one-pre-owned-sales-at-retail/0116137

And they have decided to reward people for sitting on their fat arses & watching TV in a shameless commercial link up with TV studios.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-05-24-microsoft-applies-for-patent-on-tv-achievements

[Learn2Eel]

So...more powerful than the PS4, Blu-Ray, Silnet Running...and Xbox Live will have more servers than there were computers in 1999....

No it isn't, one of the more painstakingly obvious facts for gamers is that the PS4 has a significant edge over the Xbox One based on the confirmed tech.


As opposed to the PS4 reveal that didnt evn show the console or any games that weren't CGI and weren't running on the console and just showed that they can record video and share it straight to youtube

This was never going to be about games it was only about hardware. E3 is for the games

Timed exclusive CoD content, 15 exclusives in year 1, 8 new unique IPs....Microsoft was a lot better here than Sony were.

Huh? I'm not sure where to start....

They did show gameplay footage, unlike Microsoft. Look up the Killzone Shadow Fall demo. Not one of the games at the Xbox One reveal was a gameplay demo; the EA games had trailer touch ups everywhere, the Remedy game inter-spliced CGI with live action footage, and the Forza game had the same treatment as the EA games; ditto Call of Duty. Not one of them came even close to rivaling the visuals shown in the Killzone demo. And on that share and record feature, it isn't based around invasive technology that either locks the console or forces you to pay a fee if too many people are in a room at once.

By the way, here is proof that the footage they showed was fully in-game (this was shown the day after the conference); http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGlu3e9kdks
Mind you, this is running on a development kit of the PS4 that was far less powerful than the end product. And that isn't even finished gameplay.

They've basically confirmed they are heading in the direction everyone suspected they would be; entertainment hub, not video game console. The problem here is that none of the games look even remotely as good as what we've seen for the PS4. Microsoft confirmed fifteen exclusives - eight of them new IPs - over the next year, but we know next to nothing about any of them (save for a Forza game and the Remedy game). The problem here is that there is a very high likelihood at least half of them will be Kinect games. Whilst the original Kinect has strong sale numbers, the biggest reason for that is that Microsoft started shipping the Kinect with the Xbox 360; if they keep on focusing on games for it (all of which that, bar a few exceptions, have been mediocre to terrible so far) then they will alienate the casual gamer, not bring them in as they hope. They have already lost the hardcore gamer, given that Sony decidedly said "games first" and they have proven it.

Wow, timed exclusive Call of Duty content is such an earth-shattering deal. I'm sorry, but Sony has the far better motto when it comes to exclusive stuff; they tie up the best developers, and they support the indie developers. Ask yourself an honest question; aside from Halo, Forza, Gears of War and a smattering of others, are you really content with the "exclusive" stuff for the Xbox? The reason the Playstation 3 (and this is another fact that has been ignored) has over-taken the Xbox 360 in worldwide sales is because of that diversity of exclusive games that the Xbox 360 simply can't match. The Xbox has Forza and, at the start of the generation, Project Gotham Racing. The Playstation has Twisted Metal, Gran Turismo, Motorstorm, Wipeout, and so on. For every Halo, the Playstation has a Demon's Souls, a The Last of Us, an Uncharted, a a Journey, a Super Stardust, a Metal Gear Solid 4, and so on. If I had a choice between a handful of exclusives and timed DLC or almost quadruple or more the quality exclusives, I know what I would take.

15 exclusives in one year sounds great, but that is before you remember that a good portion of them will likely be Kinect or "Arcade" games. And before you jump on it, if Sony had said the same thing, I would be voicing my concerns too. Halo won't be coming out in the first year (two years between each Halo game) and I doubt whether a new Gears is imminent given how recent Judgement was. Forza is obvious, and Fable - as mediocre as it is - is a series that could very well pop up. Crackdown might be coming back. We don't have long to wait, but I am very concerned a lot of these games won't be AAA games. As for new IPs, it seems like Microsoft finally saw why hardcore gamers continue to migrate over to the PS3. From memory, the PS3 has well over quadruple the number of unique IP exclusives as opposed to the Xbox 360. Where much of the 360's thunder was dominated by Halo, Gears, Forza and so on, the PS3 had a much broader audience to appeal to; Uncharted, the Last of Us, inFamous, the Last Guardian (if it ever releases), Killzone, God of War and co just to name a few. That doesn't even begin to discuss the indie titles they have; Journey won awards at events that don't even concern video games, it was that darn good. Whilst that new Remedy game looked very interesting, I have doubts as to whether Microsoft has the will to innovate with their games as much as Sony have, particularly when they are clearly focusing on the TV/Movies/Music/Internet side of the box.

If you read up on IGN, gaming forums or pretty much any major gaming website, they will tell you that Sony blew Microsoft out of the park with incalculable ease. As a gamer, Microsoft's conference was dour at best, especially when it took them thirty minutes to even mention a single game. Everyone points to the EA reveal, but why use that as an excuse when Sony could have done the same thing? Sony made a clear message - "games first" - which is reason enough that their conference was the stronger one. Unlike Microsoft, they made it abundantly clear what the tech specs of the console were in front of the media, not behind closed doors. Unlike Microsoft, they didn't leave lots of crucial detail - all bad - out of the conference. Who wants a console that charges a fee for using a used-game, requires an internet connection every twenty four hours, has an invasive video DRM feature, TV features that won't even be available in most countries and are a big draw for the console, required installation of games on a 500 GB hard-drive using blu-ray stored games, no backwards compatibility at all (unlike Gaikai for PS4), you can't lend games to friends, and worse performance as opposed to its main competitor when a SMART TV does all of the same things? Microsoft dropped the ball in a massive way that is clearly obvious to even the most die-hard Xbox fans. This article sums up just why their muddled message could prove deadly to their chances;
http://au.ign.com/articles/2013/05/22/xbox-one-microsofts-mixed-messages

And no, I'm not a Playstation fanboy or anything of the sort. I pay a lot of attention to all video games, I own both an Xbox 360 and a Playstation 3, and I'm happy with my time on both. But seriously, it was as plain as day to me and millions of others watching that conference - and paying attention to the details that filtered out afterwards - that Microsoft are doing their level best to alienate gamers of all kinds. Whether their console sells well as an entertainment hub remains to be seen.

[Learn2Eel]

So, two little gems to induce rage (assuming they are true). MS has killed the 2nd hand market http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/publishers-to-receive-cut-of-xbox-one-pre-owned-sales-at-retail/0116137

And they have decided to reward people for sitting on their fat arses & watching TV in a shameless commercial link up with TV studios.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-05-24-microsoft-applies-for-patent-on-tv-achievements

I stopped paying for Xbox Live soon after advertisements needlessly flooded my menus. That it took two damned months for Microsoft to let me stop paying is indicative enough of their business mantra. That doesn't even begin to mention the used-game fees, paying for "passes" to allow friends to use your games if you go over a mate's house, a Kinect integrated into the console that acts as fluid DRM, and marketing it as an entertainment hub where the massively hyped TV portion of the console won't even be activated on the console's release for all but one country. The backlash Microsoft have received over the past few days has been nothing short of staggering, but it is absolutely deserved. If they don't pull out all the stops at E3, they are in a lot of trouble.

To cap off just how much Microsoft stuffed up, Sony capitalised and released this promotional picture;
http://25.media.tumblr.com/543bc82935040edec47b22d15051abf3/tumblr_mnbhqgkPee1sr302to1_500.png

It wasn't a happy day at all for gamers. That they are reportedly handing out achievement points for watching TV just about does it for me. If Microsoft manage to pull this one back, I will be impressed.

[Kirsten]

I would tend to agree, IGN polled 76,000 people and 75% thought the reveal was bad. I can understand them wanting to get in on the used game market, but trying to kill that market completely is not the way to solve the issue. the fact that they wont say what the fee will be suggests to me it must be high. not allowing you to borrow games from friends is stupid, any game I borrow, if I like it, I give it back and go and buy my own copy before I complete it. They really shot themselves in the foot when different company bigwigs contradicted each other at their own launch event too. I have a Kinect, it is quite good fun, but there have not been any good games for it, and proper games that feature Kinect interface are not great. Future Soldier allowed you to swap weapon mods using Kinect, which was a cool idea but very hard to control, voice activation of powers in Mass Effect 3 was a cool idea, but took a few seconds to respond, rather than the instantaneous button press. The tech is cool, it is a great idea, but it hasn't really worked out so far, and it is almost like Microsoft is having some sort of petty moment by demanding everyone has one anyway.

My gold account has auto updated itself each year despite the fact I have explicitly told the console not to do so every single year, which is highly illegal. The video DRM thing, counting how many people are in a room watching is just ridiculous. apparently the Kinect microphone is not just on whilst the console is on, but on while it is turned off as well, so that you can voice activate your console any time you like. going to have to unplug the damn thing if you don't want a nice big electricity bill.

[Psychosplodge]

Going to go with Madden12 being the best football game ever.

You'd be wrong, it's not even football :p

[Learn2Eel]

I would tend to agree, IGN polled 76,000 people and 75% thought the reveal was bad. I can understand them wanting to get in on the used game market, but trying to kill that market completely is not the way to solve the issue. the fact that they wont say what the fee will be suggests to me it must be high. not allowing you to borrow games from friends is stupid, any game I borrow, if I like it, I give it back and go and buy my own copy before I complete it. They really shot themselves in the foot when different company bigwigs contradicted each other at their own launch event too. I have a Kinect, it is quite good fun, but there have not been any good games for it, and proper games that feature Kinect interface are not great. Future Soldier allowed you to swap weapon mods using Kinect, which was a cool idea but very hard to control, voice activation of powers in Mass Effect 3 was a cool idea, but took a few seconds to respond, rather than the instantaneous button press. The tech is cool, it is a great idea, but it hasn't really worked out so far, and it is almost like Microsoft is having some sort of petty moment by demanding everyone has one anyway.

My gold account has auto updated itself each year despite the fact I have explicitly told the console not to do so every single year, which is highly illegal. The video DRM thing, counting how many people are in a room watching is just ridiculous. apparently the Kinect microphone is not just on whilst the console is on, but on while it is turned off as well, so that you can voice activate your console any time you like. going to have to unplug the damn thing if you don't want a nice big electricity bill.

There have been differing reports about the used game fee. The common one is that it will be full RRP, but I don't think Microsoft are that stupid.
I think the tech behind the new Kinect is great, and I am excited to see if they actually do something ingenious with it. Some of the ones you mention like Mass Effect 3 were good ideas, just shoddily implemented. I'm still not sold on it though, especially if they try to push it into games more than before; most gamers prefer to be sitting/lying down with a controller/phone in their hands (or a keyboard and mouse at their fingertips) and that isn't changing any time soon.

My Xbox doesn't even give me the option to cancel gold renewal; I think they updated it recently and force you to go through a tedious process on your PC. They make it as obnoxiously difficult as they can.
The common problem everyone has with the Kinect voice commands is what happens if you are having a conversation with someone and it picks that up. Also, how will it account for different accents? Having multiple languages is fine, but it won't be worth diddly if it can't understand what you are saying. Apple's Siri had the same exact problem; as an Australian with a half British/half Australian accent, it doesn't get me at all. I say "play Just Drive" and it replies with "calling Luke H". I had similar problems with the first Kinect. The whole "it is always on but not always used" is just silly. The only voice command feature I've seen that understands me is the Samsung Galaxy one.

Really, Microsoft's main problem wasn't the muddled quality and messages of their conference, but that all the details that leaked afterwards were universally bad. It really is like they are intentionally shooting themselves in the foot.

The masses have spoken;

http://au.gamespot.com/twitter-battle/xbox-vs-ps4/

http://au.ign.com/articles/2013/05/23/ign-poll-result-75-disappointed-with-xbox-one-reveal

[Learn2Eel]

Spec arguments are red herrings. It's the games that matter. The 360 has outsold the PS3 despite generally weaker hardware, and the Wii outsold them both. And when it's a contest between a few thousand dollars for a good gaming PC vs a few hundred for a plug and play console... unless computers are your hobby or you've got no life, there really isn't much of a contest.

Strictly speaking, the PS3 outsold the 360 in every territory (that we know of) barring the USA. It will over-take it again (it did earlier in the year) in worldwide sales very soon, which is a pretty big achievement given it launched a year later.
This is an important precedent for the Xbox One because the PS3's sales picked up considerably several years after its initial release, unlike the 360 that has slowed down. I predict the One will have a weak start owing from all the bad press/reaction they've had, particularly if their launch line-up isn't as strong as the PS4's - that the One has the weaker tech specs is another detriment to their cause. If Microsoft can learn from their mistakes and correct them though, as Sony did, then they could do a lot better than what initial forecasts are predicting. Kind of ironic that the two may very well switch places in the new generation.

Ultimately, I will be a happy camper if Sony and Microsoft both give me some great competition for their consoles again. I love my 360 and my PS3 and I hope the same will be true of the One and the PS4; I'll likely get both within four years, but which one I get first is ultimately too easy a decision right now. As a gamer, I really hope Microsoft does what is right by myself and fellow gamers and gives us what we want at E3; a wide breadth of quality exclusives.

On the Madden thing, I get in trouble for referring to actual football (i.e. La Liga or the English Premier League) as football as opposed to soccer. Also, for the egg-ball games, Rugby League and Rugby Union players don't wear body-armour :p

[pgarfunkle]

I read that sales of the Wii U picked up something daft like 875% on Amazon UK following the Xbox One reveal, which I grant you is still probably not a huge amount in actual console sales but it still made me chuckle.

[Kirsten]

There have been differing reports about the used game fee. The common one is that it will be full RRP, but I don't think Microsoft are that stupid.
I think the tech behind the new Kinect is great, and I am excited to see if they actually do something ingenious with it. Some of the ones you mention like Mass Effect 3 were good ideas, just shoddily implemented. I'm still not sold on it though, especially if they try to push it into games more than before; most gamers prefer to be sitting/lying down with a controller/phone in their hands (or a keyboard and mouse at their fingertips) and that isn't changing any time soon.

My Xbox doesn't even give me the option to cancel gold renewal; I think they updated it recently and force you to go through a tedious process on your PC. They make it as obnoxiously difficult as they can.
The common problem everyone has with the Kinect voice commands is what happens if you are having a conversation with someone and it picks that up. Also, how will it account for different accents? Having multiple languages is fine, but it won't be worth diddly if it can't understand what you are saying. Apple's Siri had the same exact problem; as an Australian with a half British/half Australian accent, it doesn't get me at all. I say "play Just Drive" and it replies with "calling Luke H". I had similar problems with the first Kinect. The whole "it is always on but not always used" is just silly. The only voice command feature I've seen that understands me is the Samsung Galaxy one.

Really, Microsoft's main problem wasn't the muddled quality and messages of their conference, but that all the details that leaked afterwards were universally bad. It really is like they are intentionally shooting themselves in the foot.

The masses have spoken;

http://au.gamespot.com/twitter-battle/xbox-vs-ps4/

http://au.ign.com/articles/2013/05/23/ign-poll-result-75-disappointed-with-xbox-one-reveal

yeah, may not be full price, but I bet it is over half. The Kinect tech is impressive, but it just isn't very useful so far. Plus what if I am playing a game online and the microphone picks up everything I say to a friend who is round, when I am not actually wanting to talk to the people online? One of the reasons I avoid voice chat in games is because in an open group it can cause more trouble for me than it is worth. I wouldn't be able to play any online games with the Nextbox it seems.
The gold account asks you whether or not you want it to auto renew when it is reaching its' expiry. it asks you when you first sign up, it asks you again a month or so before it expires, and it asks you just after it renews, and I think whenever you change a payment method. every single time I said no don't auto renew, and every year it did anyway.

[Learn2Eel]

yeah, may not be full price, but I bet it is over half. The Kinect tech is impressive, but it just isn't very useful so far. Plus what if I am playing a game online and the microphone picks up everything I say to a friend who is round, when I am not actually wanting to talk to the people online? One of the reasons I avoid voice chat in games is because in an open group it can cause more trouble for me than it is worth. I wouldn't be able to play any online games with the Nextbox it seems.
The gold account asks you whether or not you want it to auto renew when it is reaching its' expiry. it asks you when you first sign up, it asks you again a month or so before it expires, and it asks you just after it renews, and I think whenever you change a payment method. every single time I said no don't auto renew, and every year it did anyway.

Wow, that's amazingly illegal. If I have similar problems then I will be on the phone to them immediately. They've done nothing but alienate much of their consumer base over the past several months.

[Mr Mystery]

Still finding the One to be intrusive sounding.

And barring the odd frothing fanboi, I've read nothing positive about it. It just seems to be seeking to placate and jerk off developers, rather than those who will actually be buying the damned thing.

Looking forward to PS4 launch. Still planning on the midnight release up London!

[Psychosplodge]

Some more along the lines of learn2eel's earlier comedy stylings
http://24.media.tumblr.com/e0cfed131982ae29685d6ae54399ff9b/tumblr_mncbkpGQiN1qfuseio1_1280.jpg
http://25.media.tumblr.com/080111a959a8fcf8c5fc57d1fd01419c/tumblr_mncbkpGQiN1qfuseio3_500.jpg
http://24.media.tumblr.com/d661d222b6dac3f37f28bdfc4983b0b2/tumblr_mncbkpGQiN1qfuseio4_500.jpg
http://24.media.tumblr.com/71eb94d732553d7de6cd74531267f62d/tumblr_mncbkpGQiN1qfuseio5_500.jpg

[Learn2Eel]

Still finding the One to be intrusive sounding.

And barring the odd frothing fanboi, I've read nothing positive about it. It just seems to be seeking to placate and jerk off developers, rather than those who will actually be buying the damned thing.

Looking forward to PS4 launch. Still planning on the midnight release up London!

I'm pretty much decided on a PS4 at the moment, as Microsoft's press conference was just that bad; plus, most of the One's features simply don't appeal to me. I have a Galaxy S4 and an existing Foxtel connection to perform the tasks the One would, but I will wait until after E3 to see if either company sways me more. It is sad, but pretty much any gamer that - as you say - isn't a complete fanboy has said that if they don't pick up their game dramatically at E3, Sony will be getting their support. Pretty crazy given that almost the entire American gaming population wants to adapt the PS4 when that was the 360's heartland - and going by its feature set, the One's as well.


Some more along the lines of learn2eel's earlier comedy stylings
http://24.media.tumblr.com/e0cfed131982ae29685d6ae54399ff9b/tumblr_mncbkpGQiN1qfuseio1_1280.jpg
http://25.media.tumblr.com/080111a959a8fcf8c5fc57d1fd01419c/tumblr_mncbkpGQiN1qfuseio3_500.jpg
http://24.media.tumblr.com/d661d222b6dac3f37f28bdfc4983b0b2/tumblr_mncbkpGQiN1qfuseio4_500.jpg
http://24.media.tumblr.com/71eb94d732553d7de6cd74531267f62d/tumblr_mncbkpGQiN1qfuseio5_500.jpg

Lol!

[Kirsten]

being reported now that the Nextbox will be region locked too. it is almost as if they don't want anyone playing their console.

[Wolfshade]

being reported now that the Nextbox will be region locked too. it is almost as if they don't want anyone playing their console.

Urgh.

With each region having different release dates and prices? /Sigh.

I thought we had seen the end of that.

I recal a friend having a converter for his snes so he could play american and japanese games to circumvent the regionality.

[Psychosplodge]

I thought the snes ones worked anyway? It was just the square american ones that needed a converter?

[Kirsten]

yeah, I was quite surprised to learn that the current generation had no region lock, just so used to it being the case. Microsoft used it to their advantage though, Sony paid an awful lot of money for certain games to get a month of EU exclusivity. The ghostbusters game was a noticeable one, the xbox version was released a month later than the playstation one because sony paid for that month. all Microsoft did however was ship a load of US copies over to Europe for the sony launch date. the games were technically different regions, but there was no actual difference in reality.

It isn't something likely to make a huge difference to most people, but you just have to wonder why. Microsoft are claiming they have to do it because of differing laws in different countries and regions, but the current generation isn't locked, and the PS4 wont be locked, so it is hard to see what the issue is. sounds more like an excuse to control sales, prices etc.

[Psychosplodge]

That's interesting, because Sony was pretty much the driving force behind region locking on DVDs and Blu-rays.

[Wolfshade]

I thought the snes ones worked anyway? It was just the square american ones that needed a converter?
There were two different pones required, I don't really understand the whys and wherefoers/

[Psychosplodge]

I remember the type that you plugged a normal game on, and the american game as well, and it would do a region check against the normal game then boot the american game. plus the american game wouldn't fit the slot either so required a converter.
I never knew the Japanese ones needed anything, with them being PAL systems like ours and not NTSC.

[Wolfshade]

It was only ever used with two games, and was just a long thin converter, not like the "double" to get the square games to fit in.

The whole thing was rendered moot when he got a "wildcard" box that sat on top. It was a strange device that accepted any region games and could also copy the games to floppies. You then could load the floppies to the wildcard and play normally.

[Psychosplodge]

Never knew that.
Like on an emulator or something?

[Wolfshade]

Never knew that.
Like on an emulator or something?

It looks like this; http://www.cherryroms.co.uk/node/14495

The idea was that it could "back-up" your cartidges, but in reality it meant that you could copy any game and potentially distribute the rom across the internet, though this was when the internet was in its infancy so a typical game would be 3Mb so could take an hour or so to download across a 14.4kB dialup

[Mr Mystery]

yeah, I was quite surprised to learn that the current generation had no region lock, just so used to it being the case. Microsoft used it to their advantage though, Sony paid an awful lot of money for certain games to get a month of EU exclusivity. The ghostbusters game was a noticeable one, the xbox version was released a month later than the playstation one because sony paid for that month. all Microsoft did however was ship a load of US copies over to Europe for the sony launch date. the games were technically different regions, but there was no actual difference in reality.

It isn't something likely to make a huge difference to most people, but you just have to wonder why. Microsoft are claiming they have to do it because of differing laws in different countries and regions, but the current generation isn't locked, and the PS4 wont be locked, so it is hard to see what the issue is. sounds more like an excuse to control sales, prices etc.

Yup. As I said before, MS seem to be trying to suck up to the games industry, probably to bag more exclusive content, but have gone way too far, to the point where few (well, comparatively few) will buy their machine, rendering their efforts moot.

It's seeming more and more like the Kinect. Incredibly impressive technological achievement to get into peoples home, but ultimately wasted by a shocking lack of imagination and later innovation. They've clearly worked really hard on their new hardware, and good for them, nobody is slagging off the machines potential. But what they intend to do with that just seems...odd. Control obsessed odd. And seriously, the possibility of 'achievements' just for watching telly? Do we really need that? Would it not just be embarrassing to have your friends know you spent the weekend, in your pants on some televisular marathon? Or is it more akin to 'Achievement Unlocked. Managed to watch more than 5 minutes of 'pr0N' before...you know'.

It's all just so needless, and it's seeming increasinly apparent that few people want the level of interactivity MS are offering.

I feel for them, I really do. But I just don't see them getting a shoe in this time around. Most of the stuff they've been knocked for seems to be predominantly software related. Sony haven't covered that stuff yet. They have an advantage. Even if they were planning it, they've seen the backlash against MS, and can (probably will) nip into the code and excise it.

[Kirsten]

yeah exactly, there are ways to do things, and this is not one of those ways. 'how do we take a cut of the pre-owned market?' is a fine question 'I know, let's just make them basically impossible' is not the solution really. Someone has claimed the fee for pre-owned will be $52 a game.

Kinect is an amazing piece of kit, I am very impressed with what mine can do. but it has also been turned off for months now because there is nothing to use it with.

[Mr Mystery]

I guess it does boil down to 'how much for a second hand game code' in that respect. Or, they could just not be buttmunches about the second hand market. When it comes to high end guesses, I'm always suspicious it's just a Sony Prank Monkey stirring things (and fair play to them!)

Most people I know are trading in their old games to fund new ones. From there, one could argue, with the appropriate figures, the 2nd hand selling on has an overall positive impact on the design studios. These games aren't terribly cheap, and they are notorious for falling sharply in price post-release frenzy. Seems MS want the prices to simply remain high, in which case they can go get bent.

[Kirsten]

indeed, it will be interesting to see what the actual figure is. I doubt it will be the same as buying the game new, because that would kill their console, but I don't think it will be too far below it either, probably more than half the game price anyway.

[Mr Mystery]

Yup. And 'trading in'. Just trying to control yet another market in traditional 'ALL YOUR MONEY IS BELONG TO US!' Microsoft fashion. No ta. No ta very much. No ta very much at all

[Psychosplodge]

They're following the apple business model and forcing as many transactions to go through themselves to take their "cut".

[Learn2Eel]

The Xbox One is also apparently region-locked. You would think Microsoft would have plugged the bad press by now....

[Psychosplodge]

I think the PS4 is going to be region locked too. I'm pretty sure I read about them filing a patent relating to it before the PS4 was even announced.

[Mr Mystery]

Ah, but in comes my point about it being software, rather than hardware based.

They've seen the backlash. They now know it's not something people want. That's one up on Microsoft's new machine. Very, very easy just drop it, even at this late stage (first day software update perhaps?).

MS however, have committed. They could go back, sure. But that just smacks of desperation!

[Psychosplodge]

This (http://metro.co.uk/2013/05/28/sony-still-quiet-on-ps4-second-hand-games-despite-online-petition-3810837/) looked interesting. Especially the part where publishers could abandon drm free systems.

[Mr Mystery]

Depends entirely upon the sales of the system though.

Going on the current feeling, it seems likely Sony are about to dominate the market utterly. Publishers can therefore release what they want on the Xboxnumbertwo, but it's far less likely to sell....

[Wolfshade]

being reported now that the Nextbox will be region locked too. it is almost as if they don't want anyone playing their console.


The Xbox One is also apparently region-locked. You would think Microsoft would have plugged the bad press by now....

Yep

[Kirsten]

xbox one £600 on amazon...

as is the PS4

[Wrath of Azkaellon]

xbox one £600 on amazon...

as is the PS4

Ouch! So much for the rumour suggesting they would be cheaper on launch than previous generations!

[Wolfshade]

Or you could get from Dell:



Processor Intel® Core™ i5-3330S Processor (6M Cache, 2.70 GHz)
Operating System Windows 8 64bit, English
Memory2 8GB3 DDR3 SDRAM at 1600MHz
Hard Drive 2TB Serial ATA (7.200 Rpm) Hard Drive
Video Card NVIDIA® GeForce GT 620 1GB graphics card

[Kirsten]

yeah I am hoping that will change nearer to the deadline, odd that they are both £599. one company or the other did say the next generation console would not be significantly higher than the current one, even £400 for the PS3 at launch is a huge difference to £599. Sony quickly realised that £400 for a console did not work at all, so I would be amazed if they now decided that half again as much was the way to go...

[Wrath of Azkaellon]

As much as I try to downplay my PC elitism, it does seem there has never been a better time to make the move to PC.


yeah I am hoping that will change nearer to the deadline, odd that they are both £599. one company or the other did say the next generation console would not be significantly higher than the current one, even £400 for the PS3 at launch is a huge difference to £599. Sony quickly realised that £400 for a console did not work at all, so I would be amazed if they now decided that half again as much was the way to go...

That's true that could be just a first estimate but it doesn't bode well.

[Kirsten]

I couldn't agree more.

the glorious PC gaming master race
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/10350-The-Glorious-PC-Gaming-Master-Race

[Wolfshade]

Could always be an agreement to inflate console prices.

[Deadlift]

£600 is far too much, kids buy these things. Microsoft are obviously estimating people's disposable income the same way GW do :p

[Wrath of Azkaellon]

I couldn't agree more.

the glorious PC gaming master race
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/10350-The-Glorious-PC-Gaming-Master-Race

Haha, I love myself a bit of Yahtzee now and again. That's a nice article too he essentially is going through the same thought process I did last year when I moved to PC as my primary system.

[eldargal]

I couldn't agree more.

the glorious PC gaming master race
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/10350-The-Glorious-PC-Gaming-Master-Race


it's still expensive and there can still be a lot of bull**** involved in getting games running, but suddenly these problems look relatively small.
Read more at http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/10350-The-Glorious-PC-Gaming-Master-Race#QZbR1uqCEWl1p5CL.99
Good article but, what? Expensive, sure, they can be if you buy a ready made PC but here is what happens when I go to install every game ever:
I hit the Install button on the autorun thingy or Steam.
It installs
I configure it
I play it.

The exception is Skyrim where I have to go to a bit more effort to run the game with 150+ entirely optional mods.

[Psychosplodge]

Who else see a £600 console having £70 RRP on new release games?

[Wolfshade]

Something like that, I think 10% of console price wouldn't be unconceiveable.

[Kirsten]

again, both sides have said games wont be more expensive than they are now, so I don't see consoles being £600 each, and I don't see games being more than £50

[Wolfshade]

The prices for Xbox 1 & PS4 are 599 but they are place holders on Amazon, the games similiarly are lsited at 89.99 for both but again are place holders as no official pricing information has been released.

[Mr Mystery]

yeah I am hoping that will change nearer to the deadline, odd that they are both £599. one company or the other did say the next generation console would not be significantly higher than the current one, even £400 for the PS3 at launch is a huge difference to £599. Sony quickly realised that £400 for a console did not work at all, so I would be amazed if they now decided that half again as much was the way to go...

That;s more Amazon than MS/Sony. They put *a* price up to start getting the order pledges. They don't charge until it's sent out. So guesstimate way above, and you're golden. Plus...ladidah! This consumer just saved £250 (number out arse..sample only) on what they expected to pay....and here's all those lovely peripherals......KERCHING!

[Kirsten]

somebody has actually gone and ordered both though, foolish of them.

[Wolfshade]

somebody has actually gone and ordered both though, foolish of them.

I need to know them, I have a rock that keeps tigers away and a lotion that can extend life by upto 100%

[Psychosplodge]

I need to know them, I have a rock that keeps tigers away and a lotion that can extend life by upto 100%

Were they clinicly tested?

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/clinically_studied_ingredient.png

[Kirsten]

I need to know them, I have a rock that keeps tigers away and a lotion that can extend life by upto 100%

do you work for Boots the chemist? they are selling invisible hearing aids.

I have conducted a clinical study and determined that birthdays are good for you. the more you have, the longer you live.

[Wolfshade]

I am intrguied by your research.
I have discovered thta your last breath is fatal.

[Mr Mystery]

I have discovered that birth greatly increases the chance of death in all creatures.

[Marshal2Crusaders]

99% of people will die in their lifetime.


I got tired of paying microsofts extreme prices so I cast my own consoles and games from resin now.

[Psychosplodge]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/c28916081184abfa8e6a09c282941b71/tumblr_mnmghgM6dJ1qk5zuho1_500.jpg

Time to stop playing games naked, and move the console out of the bedroom :eek:

[Kirsten]

I don't know, if they are going to watch, you may as well give them something worth watching... :p

[Psychosplodge]

If you'd seen my moobs you'd disagree :D

I suppose on the other hand there's probably some voyeurism laws they'd be breaking if you were naked...

[Kirsten]

http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/05/31/xbox-one-vs-ps4-the-results-ign-versus

IGN voters have declared the PS4 superior in every way by a huge margin.

[Wildeybeast]

Well, if it comes from IGN, it must be true. :rolleyes:

[Kirsten]

it has nothing to do with the source, it is about that fact that four out of every five voters preferred the PS4, which is bad news for Microsoft.

[Wildeybeast]

Bah, IGN are the biggest corporate whores out there and anything which comes from them should be instantly discounted on that basis. Besides, the questions aren't particularly insightful, we don't know anything about the demographic of the respondents and E3 could well change everything. Everyone knows MS dropped the ball with their launch conference, this doesn't add anything new to that impression and I doubt MS will give it much thought.

[Learn2Eel]

The real concern for Microsoft about that IGN poll - and ones from Gamespot and other websites that also massively favour the PS4 - is that it is from an American website. The USA is the 360's heartland - the PS3 outsells it everywhere else, usually by a landslide - and they sure as heck seem to have alienated them. They have to pull off something amazing and hope Sony don't keep their momentum going to have any chance of pulling this back.
The bad press just keeps coming, and a lot of people aren't going to want one if the info on the picture from the previous page is accurate.

[Kirsten]

http://www.kitguru.net/desktop-pc/console-desktop-pc/jon-martindale/publishers-can-block-you-selling-your-xbox-one-games/

I think there is zero chance of me buying the Xbox One

[Wolfshade]

Free market! Yay!

[Psychosplodge]

You'll still be able to watch TV though...

[Kirsten]

only until microsoft work out a way to make you pay for it...
it honestly wouldn't surprise me if they announced some sort of 'for only x dollars a month you can now watch your tv through the xbox'

[Psychosplodge]

That's if the camera sees more than three people isn't it?

[Kirsten]

yeah. I can see the ad now, 'why just turn your tv on and watch your free channels, when you can turn on your xbox as well, and pay to watch the same tv with the bonus of voice and motion controls!'

[Psychosplodge]

oh well. Wii U anyone? :D

[Kirsten]

nooooo
PS4 if anything

[Psychosplodge]

Odds are anything decent on the PS4 will have a PC release though...

[Kirsten]

yeah, they have a few awesome exclusives though, I am a big fan of Uncharted and Killzone, Naughty Dog, who made Uncharted, have jsut released The Last of Us, which is getting perfect scores everywhere and is an exclusive. I would also like one console for things like co-op gaming, easier to do with my brother than getting PCs together.

[eldargal]

It's rather amusing really. People with PCs go to considerable lengths to stop people spying via them, now you can buy a console that cuts out the middle-person and spies on you direct.:rolleyes:

[Kirsten]

lol, true. PCs advertise virus protection, xbox advertises watching you 24/7

[Wolfshade]

lol, true. PCs advertise virus protection, xbox advertises watching you 24/7

The exhibitionist in me is very excited about always being watched

[Wolfshade]

This from the beeb (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22812743):

"Xbox One is designed so game publishers can enable you to give your disc-based games to your friends," the statement said.

"There are no fees charged as part of these transfers.

"There are two requirements: you can only give them to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days and each game can only be given once.""

[Psychosplodge]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/7417-Next-Gen-Buyers-Guide

[Kirsten]

This from the beeb (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22812743):

"Xbox One is designed so game publishers can enable you to give your disc-based games to your friends," the statement said.

"There are no fees charged as part of these transfers.

"There are two requirements: you can only give them to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days and each game can only be given once.""

yeah I read that earlier today. It seems like nobody at microsoft actually knows what their console does or how it will work. they are changing their minds on a daily basis about how everything will function. they have said today that the game publishers will decide used game fees, which did make me wonder if they are just passing the buck because of the backlash.

[DrLove42]

Official statement out of MS has been free sharing, within limits

It amuses me that the slef confessed "PC master race" are all bad mouthing the xbox cos you cant do preowned games. When was the last time you could do that with a PC game?

[Kirsten]

official statement is that now yes, it hasn't been up until now. there shouldn't be any limits at all, it is none of their business.

pc games don't need shop pre-owned, and you can still buy and use pre-owned games from ebay and the like. Equally you don't need to, PC games rapidly come down in price. I have bought dozens of PC games in the last few months and almost none of them have cost more than £5

[Wolfshade]

Official statement out of MS has been free sharing, within limits

It amuses me that the slef confessed "PC master race" are all bad mouthing the xbox cos you cant do preowned games. When was the last time you could do that with a PC game?

Probably somewhere between 1/3rd and 1/2 my games are pre-owned, that includes phyical copies and gifts via steam. Last one was Deadspace earlier this year...

[Psychosplodge]

It amuses me that the slef confessed "PC master race" are all bad mouthing the xbox cos you cant do preowned games. When was the last time you could do that with a PC game?


I don't need to though, as I can't remember the last time I paid more than £15 for any PC game.
Steam sales mean you can pay sensible prices and it's not all going in some CEO at GAMES
pocket.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/b2f32a4e217848bbf05402e5cdc8b449/tumblr_mne5djszZZ1qk27dho1_500.png
http://25.media.tumblr.com/3ccc4e632dcbb116a30defa80e66a71d/tumblr_mo096e2olj1su01nco1_500.jpg

[Mr Mystery]

Just gets messier and messier.

Defo sticking with PS4

[Kirsten]

yup, likewise

[Learn2Eel]

For what it is worth, I will stay up tonight to watch the Microsoft conference; if they don't absolutely wow me, Sony won't have to do much to convince me to be an early buyer. I think I have a good plan going, particularly as I don't need much sleep; stay up and watch Microsoft conference, sleep, wake up and watch Sony conference, all live.

[DrLove42]

What amuses me is that everyones saying go sony cos of the requirements....

Rumour is theres a reason Sony haven't said anything about their preowned rules....because they're doing the same.

[Psychosplodge]

Yeah, I'm sure I saw a news report last year about sony registering a patent that tied a disc to a machine. So I'm assuming something more than a code...

[Learn2Eel]

What amuses me is that everyones saying go sony cos of the requirements....

Rumour is theres a reason Sony haven't said anything about their preowned rules....because they're doing the same.

Problem is, it isn't just the pre-owned stuff that everyone is p*ssed about.
Plus, a reason that everyone is saying go Sony is because their game demos made the One demos look like crap, despite being shown several months earlier.

The Sony President said that you could play used games on the PS4, but no details other than that.
http://au.ign.com/articles/2013/02/21/sony-exec-playstation-4-doesnt-block-used-games

[DrLove42]

By game demos, you mean the prerendered trailers that were running on a PC?

So far, only the Xbox has actually shown something running on the actual console.

I think its going to need to be judged after both press conferences. We always new the original "announces" would be mostly tech show only. Tonight, at E3, that is about the games.

I'd imagine we'll actually get to see the PS4 for the first time as well.

[eldargal]

By game demos, you mean the prerendered trailers that were running on a PC?
Hurhur.:p

[Learn2Eel]

By game demos, you mean the prerendered trailers that were running on a PC?

So far, only the Xbox has actually shown something running on the actual console.

I think its going to need to be judged after both press conferences. We always new the original "announces" would be mostly tech show only. Tonight, at E3, that is about the games.

I'd imagine we'll actually get to see the PS4 for the first time as well.

You do realize the Killzone Shadow Fall demo was actual gameplay?
That same actual gameplay that they had Jimmy Fallon try out a day or two after their conference? :rolleyes:

By the way, if it wasn't obvious, all of the Microsoft demos were actually pre-rendered/trailers. The only proper gameplay they displayed was the CoD Ghosts game, but even then, that was still a trailer and it looked nowhere near as impressive as Shadow Fall did.

Agreed on the rest. I really hope Microsoft brings their a-game, but it is going to have to be something special to sway both me and a lot of others.

[DrLove42]

Yeah, the xbox stuff was prerendered. Least they were prerendered videos running on the console they were trying to sell

I've seen nothing from the PS4 since the original launch show, but thats cos i've not really gone looking

I will always be an xbox player, i much prefer the exclusives they have, and have a lot of xboxing friends online.


Outside the "my console is better than yours!" wars (:P) what do you make of Killzone games? I was told one was great, but the second was a little disappointing. PS3's other big shooter (Resistance) was apparantly a bit poor

[Kirsten]

I would disagree, I absolutely love both Killzone 2 and 3. Resistance 1 was great, 2 dropped everything that made 1 unique, and kinda sucked, then 3 came along and restored a lot of what made the first good and is easily the best of the three.

[DrLove42]

Fair enough. At the time of Resistance 1-2 i was working in a game store. I had a lot of people bringing them back saying it was a very generic hallway shooter, that wasn't particularly exciting

I will admit to be jealous as hell for "The Last of Us"

[Learn2Eel]

Hey I'm not really in to the console war stuff :) Just pointing out that Sony did show gameplay, and it was glorious.
Fair enough, and I respect that. I much prefer loyalty to brand hopping, all things considered. I like and can afford both so I'm in a good spot where I don't feel a particular pull to either.

I've played every Killzone game on a main console, if that counts. The first one was a decent game that looked good at the time - but not ground-breaking - with a solid campaign and enjoyable offline multiplayer. Nothing special. The second one was where the series really picked up; the visuals were unmatched at the time on any console, surpassed only (and to this day in the current generation) by the God of War games for raw technical achievement. Gameplay wise, it was unique and great; a lot of people don't like the "heaviness" of Killzone's controls, though. It has easily the best campaign of the series in my opinion, though I would never class it as a "Halo-Killer". The third one was good too; the campaign wasn't as great as the second one, but the multiplayer was awesome.

I've not played much of Resistance, with only the first half of the second one to my credit. From what I played, it seems a bit more "by-the-numbers" like Call of Duty as opposed to having more unique controls like Killzone. Fun game though. The first one was supposed to be decent, as was the second one. I've only heard good things about the third one, but it didn't sell well.

If you want great shooters, stick to the Xbox. No roster, PC or Playstation, beats it for exclusive shooters.

I can't even get The Last of Us any time soon :( Have to buy stuff for a local tournament (for both me and my ally, I might add), birthday presents for three people and food stuffs. I still haven't grabbed BioShock Infinite for similar reasons. Ah well.

[Kirsten]

Resistance did things differently, it didn't make itself a bland shooter like every other FPS, you could carry all your guns at once, you didn't have fully regenerating health, you were fighting in english cities, it just rocked. 2 stripped all that away and it became a generic shooter like every other and sucked, 3 brought back the uniqueness which was much needed.
I love the heavy controls in Killzone, makes you actually consider what you are doing, it isn't a twitch finger nonsense shooter like CoD

[Learn2Eel]

Yeah I only played Resistance 2 so can't really comment. I remember reading the reviews for three though, and I am a bit disappointed I didn't grab it.
I think my favourite shooter controls wise is Halo, it really is perfect. Second to that would be Killzone. Not a big fan of the CoD controls lately, because too many games mimic them.

[Kirsten]

I don't like the Halo controls especially, though Reach and 4 were both superb games. 1 to ODST sucked balls I have no idea how the series ever got such a following. luckily it did though to finally give us two astonishingly good games after four awful ones :p

[Psychosplodge]

If you want great shooters, stick to the Xbox. No roster, PC or Playstation, beats it for exclusive shooters.



Go play Planetside 2 it eclipses anything the consoles have to offer by a longshot.

[Learn2Eel]

I don't like the Halo controls especially, though Reach and 4 were both superb games. 1 to ODST sucked balls I have no idea how the series ever got such a following. luckily it did though to finally give us two astonishingly good games after four awful ones :p

That's funny, from what I hear a lot of people actually dropped off of Halo 4 a month or two after its release, though I have no idea how widespread it was.
I think it was a combination of great story (for a shooter) and revolutionary features (though I forget which they introduced) that gave the original such a following, particularly because its multiplayer was so darned fun. For a lot of people, it was the substitute for Counter Strike to pass the time. It helped that Microsoft really jumped behind them and pushed the marketing through the roof. The only main one that I haven't played is ODST, and I enjoyed all of them. I couldn't say which was my favourite or least favourite though.

[Learn2Eel]

Go play Planetside 2 it eclipses anything the consoles have to offer by a longshot.


Oh I know about Planetside 2, trust me, I meant more for an overall roster. Halo and Gears are really heavy hitters.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Go play Planetside 2 it eclipses anything the consoles have to offer by a longshot.

True facts, I'll have to get Planetside.

[Kirsten]

That's funny, from what I hear a lot of people actually dropped off of Halo 4 a month or two after its release, though I have no idea how widespread it was.

well I don't play multiplayer so I don't know what happened with that. Reach and 4 tweak just enough from the original idea to turn the games into something magnificent out of something dreadful. It still needs some work, like dropping those horrendous ewoks, having a better range of worthwhile weapons etc. but the last 2 have got it pretty much nailed.

[Learn2Eel]

I'll be honest, I've never heard that kind of criticism about Halo before lol. I do sometimes get the sense that they are over-rated, or at least some of them are.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Halo 4 got boring and repetitive, that's why me and many of my friends stopped playing it.

"We will offer unique missions each week with interesting objectives and a defining story", yeah right... Bullsh*t.

Also, didn't play GoW:Judgement because it didn't really need to be a game, it could have easily been a dlc pack, a la Shivering Isles.

[Kirsten]

the little ewok creatures ruin the tone of the games. they are fairly serious stories with big implications, and you have irritating little cretins jabbering and giggling about the place. In 1-ODST the human guns fire frozen peas and sound like potato guns, the covenant weaponry looks like it was designed by nerf. In something like Gears of War, each enemy can take a lot of fire to bring down, and it feels like that is because they are all really tough, your guns sound suitably heavy and badass. Halo enemies take a lot of fire to bring down because your guns are really pathetic. there is no oomph to them at all, the sounds are incredibly underwhelming. Reach and 4 toned down the colours slightly, a bit more pastel and a bit less neon, made the guns actually satisfying to use (human ones anyway, most of the covenant guns still suck). Also, given that Master Chief's survival is based on his recharging shield, why does he wear all that armour? it doesn't stop any bullets, so why not just have the shield and some pants? :p

Not so at all about Judgement, it is a full sized game, no way it could ever be dlc

[Learn2Eel]

Halo 4 got boring and repetitive, that's why me and many of my friends stopped playing it.

"We will offer unique missions each week with interesting objectives and a defining story", yeah right... Bullsh*t.

Also, didn't play GoW:Judgement because it didn't really need to be a game, it could have easily been a dlc pack, a la Shivering Isles.

That was the stuff I heard about 4. Unlike Reach, I only really played the multiplayer for a few days and then never touched it again. It was great fun, but I just stopped playing it for some unknowable reason after my first run through it.

I haven't tried Judgement yet, but then, I haven't touched God of War Ascension either. I heard both are supposed to be the weakest entries in the series for either franchise, but they still sounded like good games.

[Psychosplodge]

Oh I know about Planetside 2, trust me, I meant more for an overall roster. Halo and Gears are really heavy hitters.

Shame it uses a joypad... :p

I found Gears very "clunky" and repetitive.
And Halo was very much Shoot the bright spot on the brown background.

I think forza and Gran turismo are their best offerings not shooters.

[Learn2Eel]

Shame it uses a joypad... :p

I found Gears very "clunky" and repetitive.
And Halo was very much Shoot the bright spot on the brown background.

I think forza and Gran turismo are their best offerings not shooters.

To be entirely honest, it is the games like Heavy Rain and The Last of Us that are so unique that really stick with me.

[Psychosplodge]

Heavy rain isn't a game, it's something you watch and occasionally jab a button. Ridiculous "game" haven't really paid any attention to this "last of us"

[Kirsten]

Metroid Prime is still the best shooter out there. nothing has come close to the awe felt playing that game as each new vista was revealed. the various details they added in like fog on the visor, running water, electrical interference, revolutionary.

[DrLove42]

^ This

Metroid Prime is probably my favourite game of all time. Astonishing game. its a shame 3 came out on the Wii and had awful controls cos I could never enjoy it.

[Kirsten]

I enjoyed 2 every bit as much as 1, 3 I still liked and finished, but it would have been better with normal controls

[Learn2Eel]

Heavy rain isn't a game, it's something you watch and occasionally jab a button. Ridiculous "game" haven't really paid any attention to this "last of us"

It is different, but it is utterly phenomenal. The sheer dread alone that game throws on you is nuts.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I enjoyed Heavy Rain, it was an amazing story imo.

My favourite game(s) are The Elder Scrolls. If I had to choose one of them, it'd be Oblivion. It was quirky, and I had a lot of play from it.
Skyrim was good, but just lacked in places.
Can't wait for Online.

[eldargal]

I bought Oblivion on a Steam sale recently, must get around to playing it.

[Kirsten]

couldn't get into Oblivion personally

[Wolfshade]

I'm still waiting for a steam sale for skyrim...

[Mr Mystery]

Metroid Prime is still the best shooter out there. nothing has come close to the awe felt playing that game as each new vista was revealed. the various details they added in like fog on the visor, running water, electrical interference, revolutionary.

Was a good game, up until one of the boss fights which I just couldn't crack. Made me lose all interest.

[Learn2Eel]

Yep, Heavy Rain has a story you won't find anywhere else. Some big plot holes (I won't risk spoiling them as anyone that hasn't played the game really shouldn't have it spoiled for them) but it still has one of the best and most shocking story twists you will ever find in a video game. And even that isn't the best part about the story!

I scoured through most of Oblivion, but that was because when it first came out it was all my friends and I played because we were all in love with The Lord of the Rings movies. No game came quite close to that kind of feel as Oblivion did. I played through a lot of Skyrim, beat the main story, etc, but never invested anywhere near as much time into it. I can't really put a finger on just why that is though. I feel like playing it every so often though and load up an old character or start a new one and play it for a week or two until I move on again. It actually probably has a lot to do with Mass Effect 3 being released not long afterwards.

[Kirsten]

I'm still waiting for a steam sale for skyrim...

it is only £15. legendary edition with all the dlc is £25 I think

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I bought Oblivion on a Steam sale recently, must get around to playing it.

Yes, you should. Mod the balls out of it too, makes it even funnier.


couldn't get into Oblivion personally

How come?


Yep, Heavy Rain has a story you won't find anywhere else. Some big plot holes (I won't risk spoiling them as anyone that hasn't played the game really shouldn't have it spoiled for them) but it still has one of the best and most shocking story twists you will ever find in a video game. And even that isn't the best part about the story!

I scoured through most of Oblivion, but that was because when it first came out it was all my friends and I played because we were all in love with The Lord of the Rings movies. No game came quite close to that kind of feel as Oblivion did. I played through a lot of Skyrim, beat the main story, etc, but never invested anywhere near as much time into it. I can't really put a finger on just why that is though. I feel like playing it every so often though and load up an old character or start a new one and play it for a week or two until I move on again. It actually probably has a lot to do with Mass Effect 3 being released not long afterwards.

I just found the characters and side quests a lot more interesting.

Mass Effect is 2nd on my Favourite Game Series of All Time list, then it's Final Fantasy, then Legend of Zelda, then Halo/Killzone (they're tied).

[Kirsten]

How come?

the main quest missions were unplayable as a rogue. I got to a very high level doing side quests but you couldn't do sneak attacks against most of the daemons and got shredded over and over again grinding every room.

[Wolfshade]

it is only £15. legendary edition with all the dlc is £25 I think

Ooo, might have to look into this

[eldargal]

Of course i'll mod the hell out of it.:p I wouldn't have bought it if I didn't think I could have 150 or mods on it like Skyrim.:rolleyes: #toomanymods

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

the main quest missions were unplayable as a rogue. I got to a very high level doing side quests but you couldn't do sneak attacks against most of the daemons and got shredded over and over again grinding every room.

Can't steal from a Daedra. xD


Of course i'll mod the hell out of it.:p I wouldn't have bought it if I didn't think I could have 150 or mods on it like Skyrim.:rolleyes: #toomanymods

Hell yeah! Also, nice use of hashtags.

[Learn2Eel]

Of course i'll mod the hell out of it.:p I wouldn't have bought it if I didn't think I could have 150 or mods on it like Skyrim.:rolleyes: #toomanymods

The biggest and best mod (at least from memory) for Oblibion is OOO, I think it was called.

[Psychosplodge]

The 2013 E3 Drinking Game

Do you hear that? That low rumble growing ever stronger in the distance? That’s the collective excitement of gamers as they all board the hype train to the future of gaming. That’s right, it’s E3 week again! In the next few days the internet will be full of gaming news, trailers, delight, and probably a bit of disappointment. It’s hard not to have a good time when you’re hanging out with friends and watching the press conferences. We’ve put together a drinking game of some of our hopes, fears, and expectations of the presentations. Gather your nerd pals, some beer, liquor, and get ready for a fun week!

Rules for all presentations:
-If a character uses a bow. Bows are so last year. = 1 sip
-A sequel game is announced = 1 sip
-Exclusive DLC or Content for a multi-platform game = 1 sip
-Dance or Music Presentation = 1 sip
-A non gaming-related celebrity makes an appearance = 1 sip
-Half Life 3 = 1 shot
-A game that was being developed for the current generation gets pushed to the next generation = 1 shot

Optional Hard Mode: Everyone playing choose a buzzword or phrase. When it is said, take a sip.

Microsoft (Monday, 9:30 am PDT) - Watch it here
-You hear news that makes you NOT want the console = 1 sip
-Every non-game announcement made = 1 sip
-Call of Duty presentation boasting about new technologies like Dog snouts and Fish AI = 1 sip
-An Xbox One exclusive is announced = 1 sip
-Buying and selling used games, rentals, or trading games is not mentioned at all = 1 shot
-You get frustrated enough that you switch over to watching Apple’s WWDC = 1 shot

EA (Monday 1:00 pm PDT) - Watch it here
-For every sports or shooter game shown = 1 sip
-Talk about Sim City 5 = 1 sip
-Every time magic happens in the Dragon Age trailer = 1 sip
-New Star Wars game = 1 shot
-EA announces they’ve bought a company you love = 1 shot

Ubisoft (Monday, 3:00 pm PDT) - Watch it here
-A ship is destroyed or an especially brutal kill is made in the Assassin’s Creed 4 trailer = 1 sip
-Every time the player hacks something in Watch Dogs
-Coop Gameplay with the Wii U pad for Rayman = 1 sip
-Beyond Good and Evil 2 finally makes an appearance = 1 shot
-Prince of Persia 2008… 2 = 1 shot

Sony (Monday, 6:00 pm PDT) - Watch it here
-Social Integration and Share Button talk = 1 sip
-If the physical console turns out to be ugly = 1 sip
-Good use of the controller’s touch pad = 1 sip
-Showing off the console’s power with physics = 1 sip
-No information about The Last Guardian (again) = 1 shot
-No information about Final Fantasy Versus XIII (again) = 1 shot
-If Sony announces they’re taking stance similar to Microsoft’s in terms of used games = 1 shot

Nintendo (Tuesday, 7:00 am PDT) - Watch it here
-This year Nintendo is opting out of a big E3 press conference, but will still have a Nintendo Direct presentation = 1 sip to acknowledge the passing of an era
-Miyamoto shows up with a prop like a toy Pikman or Master Sword = 1 sip
-Reggie appears = 1 sip (let people know your body is ready)
-A third party game that you don’t care about is shown = 1 sip
-New Pokemon Snap on Wii U = 1 shot
-A Pokemon MMO = 1 shot

The E3 drinking game :D

[Wolfshade]

Fish AI is the first thing I look for when I am buying games...

[Psychosplodge]

I'm looking forward to hearing about watching TV.

[Learn2Eel]

It is just about to start, I'm watching the live stream on IGN. Excited to see what Microsoft has up their sleeve.
I'll post my live thoughts here as it goes.
Refresh the page to see my updated thoughts, or go watch the conference yourself :D

Woah, starting conference off with awesome looking Konami game. Gameplay footage, amazing!
Oh snap! It is Metal Gear Solid!!! Probably not exclusive though.
It's open world and looks amazing.
Uggh, only black mark, these characters look very silly. Pretty deliberate and gratuitous display of the only woman in the trailer.
Other than that, looks phenomenal.
Hideo Kojima on stage....
For five seconds.

Great start Microsoft. Yep, sounds like Phantom Pain is not an exclusive. Confirmation from Major Nelson (Xbox Community Guy) that Phantom Pain is NOT exclusive.
New 360 model live.
Microsoft are copying PS Plus, incredibly blatantly. The start of their program is Assassins Creed 2 and Halo 3 for free - two free games every month. So, it still doesn't compare to PS Plus.
Ooooh......tank warfare game for 360. Cool. World of Tanks. Looks ok, but really not great as a follow up to MGS5.
This next game looks pretty blah too. Make that very blah.

Oooh....next game, From Software, is it? Yes, it is! Dark Souls 2! (Obviously not exclusive either)
Looks awesome. Frankly though, the 360 line-up they are showing doesn't look great if the best game they show is multi-platform.

What have we here? Dunno what this next one is (by the way all the following games are exclusives) but it looks interesting.
Ah, its Ryse from Crytek, announced a year ago. Only a trailer, wait, gameplay now.
This looks sick. An action game set in the Roman era made by the guys that brought us Crysis. AWESOME!
GAMEPLAY! WOW!
Cool action, though an awful lot of context sensitive stuff.
Honestly, the gameplay looks a bit awkward. Immersion breaking executions. That aside, it looks fantastic.

Generic looking fighter game in the vein of Mortal Kombat, called Killer Instinct. A classic arcade game apparently, I vaguely remember it. Doesn't look all that great though. Very quick trailer, actually looked almost like a 360/PS3 game. Can see why it only stayed there for less than a minute.

This is odd. This game looks very strange, like it is trying too hard to be cool. Not sure if it is gameplay; if it is, not incredibly impressed. Sunset Overdrive. Kind of cool looking, but not great. EDIT: Looks like this is an Insomniac Game. Not surprising as they did say they were going to work with other platforms.

Racing game. McLaren focused initially, may be Forza. It is Forza. Forza 5, and they are showing off an awesome new car at the actual conference.
Looks phenomenal as you would expect.
Here's the Cloud apparently at work.
LOL! "They drive like humans" *car crashes as video starts* loooool
Apparently no AI in the game, instead it is a "Drivatar" that tracks how you drive, stores it, races against the world (online), and then against you when you play the game. Very neat feature. Can't see that going down too well with offline.....oh right, sorry.

LMAO! "No one is more committed to indie developers than Xbox" :rolleyes:
Minecraft on Xbox One as well. Looks exactly as it always did. Not exactly what I would hope to be one of the big exclusives they market up.

Quantum Break on now. This looks great.
Aww they didn't show enough.

Oooh cool looking game, doesn't look very next-gen though, however that could just be the cell shading. D4 it is called.
As we predicted, a big bunch of these games are Arcade/mini games.
This next one looks pretty cool though. Looks like a creation sim. Smart Glass enabled, very cool looking. Sort of a Little Big Planet clone, key words "sort of". Very different, very cool.
Ugh, this creation sim looks great, but the two presenters sound like morons. Really good game though. In fact, nice little snip with "demos" that were clearly inspired by Jak and Daxter, plus a few others.

Guy out talking about Smart Glass. Hurry it up and get back to the games. Some cool features here, of course though each game has to be built to utilize the feature. Is Smart Glass only for Microsoft devices? If it is, this won't be as popular as they hope, at least not tablet/phone wise. Lol two players, one using gamepad, one using Smart Glass. Not sure what they are trying to show other than it doesn't work well, the Smart Glass player was awful and I could definitely tell she was struggling to do anything. Partnership with Twitch for Kinect. I have no idea what Twitch is, anyone?

Finally! No more Microsoft Points, now it is local currency. Xbox Live Gold Sharing for your family now.

Uh-oh. New game called Crimson Dragon, actually looks neat, but the sound cut out! Woops! No sound throughout the entire demo, I can hear some of the reporters talking in the background. Not good.

Dead Rising 3 announced! The character models are pretty meh compared to Ryse, but the lighting is really good. The reason for the average character models.....hundreds of zombies on screen, true Dead Rising style. No load times whatsoever. Just a quick note here, God of War III did it three years ago and this game doesn't look THAT much better.
Looks great gameplay wise, hundreds of zombies on screen at a time. Very fluid, entirely open world in an apparently massive city. Car gameplay as well that is pretty funny, hit enough zombies and they start latching on and slowing you down.

Oooh! The Witcher 3 is on! Actually, still looks like it is coming to PC - or PS4? They just said only the Kinect voice commands are exclusive.
This looks phenomenal. Wow. Just wow. No load times. No lag. Fully open world. Over 100 hours of gameplay. This game will amazing.
EDIT: Yep, Microsoft didn't say anything, but they have transitioned out of the "all these games are exclusives" part. Must say that if that was all, that is a bit dis-heartening. The Witcher 3 will definitely be on PC and maybe PS3.

Battlefield 4 on now. Oh dear! Sound issues again! They restarted the demo! Ugh. Technical issues! Not great! Lol the guy on stage is handling it very well.
Still no restart....
Took them long enough, massive mix-up there. Here we go! This is a DLC pack for Battlefield 4 that will come out first on Xbox One. Gameplay looks sick. Can't tell for sure because of possible video quality issues, but this looks about on par visually with earlier Shadow Fall demo. For best visual so far, three-way-tie between Battlefield 4, Ryse and Witcher 3, no question.
Yep, the presenter doesn't look happy at all after the technical difficulties.....

This next exclusive game looks.....odd. Over the top RPG by the looks of it. Didn't look great at all.

Black Tusk game. In-engine, but not gameplay. Looks good, but too little to make a big judgement.

Here we go......what is this? No idea what it is, looks awesome though; can't say whether it is.......oHHHHH!!!
HALO!!!!!
HALO! What the hell!
Very nice teaser.....Master Chief in full armour, in a pilgrims robe, standing before a giant unfurling Forerunner/Promethean mech? What the?
Good stuff Microsoft. Good stuff. FINALLY.
What? No gameplay? It obviously won't be a launch title, and no word on release date. Figures it won't be until middle/late next year then.

Release Date;
November
Pricing
$499 USD
$499 Euros
$429 Pounds

Not surprising, but it is still darned expensive. Very interested to see the PS4 price-point.

One last exclusive from RESPAWN. Very interesting looking futuristic shooter, but the visuals aren't that great. Cool game, title is...........Titanfall.

[Kirsten]

Xboxone £429...

no thanks, more like Xboxnone #amiright? :p
not at all happy with the developer saying to the woman 'just let it happen, it will be over soon'

[Learn2Eel]

Xboxone £429...

no thanks, more like Xboxnone #amiright? :p
not at all happy with the developer saying to the woman 'just let it happen, it will be over soon'

Yeah that stuck out to me too.

[Kirsten]

the games so far look cool, but then games always do, I am not overly fussed about seeing some cool trailers and stuff. Titanfall looks like an amazing idea, but also looks like an online shooter, so no thanks.

[Learn2Eel]

Hmm. You know, this really wasn't the conference Microsoft had to pull out. Bad price point (seriously, what is up with the pounds price conversion rate they are using!?), not-as-good PS Plus imitation, some mediocre games, some good games, a few great ones, but most of them really didn't look that far ahead of the current generation. Not a bad conference at all, a good one and they showed a lot of games, but not fantastic. Kind of eh on it.

[eldargal]

This looks sick. An action game set in the Roman era made by the guys that brought us Crysis. AWESOME!
Sweet baby J that better not be console exclusive.


Xboxone £429...

no thanks, more like Xboxnone #amiright? :p
not at all happy with the developer saying to the woman 'just let it happen, it will be over soon'
I loled...

Seriously? A rape joke or is there context I'm missing?

[Kirsten]

yeah. one thing that struck me, why was Master Chef wearing a poncho? he has a full suit of armour on :p

PS3 launched at £400 and they very rapidly realised it was a terrible price and dropped hugely, now Xbox are going to try it. PS4 might be a similar price yet we don't know, but they don't need a kinect to ship with it, which saves big money, and hopefully they learned from the 3...

[Kirsten]

Seriously? A rape joke or is there context I'm missing?

well it is hard to say. Basically Killer Instinct is back, the old 2d beat em up. a male dev was playing it against a woman, who was struggling with the controls. I don't think he meant it the way it came out, but a very poor choice of words.

[Learn2Eel]

Sweet baby J that better not be console exclusive.


I loled...

Seriously? A rape joke or is there context I'm missing?

It is, and only for the One at that.

They were playing a fighting game, and the lady trying to show off playing with Smart Glass on a tablet played terribly - to be honest, it really looked like the Smart Glass didn't function well at all, at least not in that example.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

My PC is looking pretty damned sweet right now.

[Learn2Eel]

Yep, methinks there is no way Sony will launch anywhere close to those prices, not after what happened with PS3. If they launch it at $399 USD as opposed to the One's $499 USD, and provided they show some great games - which they undoubtedly will - they could seal the deal for me, and many others, right then and there. The One has given me some good reasons to get it, most notably Dead Rising 3 and Ryse. The problem is, the best games at the conference aside from Ryse are multi-platform - Metal Gear Solid 5, Witcher 3, Battlefield 4. Biggest issue here is that Sony again looks like it will have the best exclusives. Timed DLC just doesn't cut it. The new Halo is a big reason to get the One obviously, but if I want to pick one of two consoles up at launch, I want good launch titles, not wait for Halo 4/big PS4 game.

[eldargal]

It is, and only for the One at that.
Fudge that then.:rolleyes:

[Kirsten]

Ryse does look kinda cool, but also quick time event heavy. it was originally going to be a kinect game and that looks like it has changed. a lot of developers seem to have only a token use of the kinect so far, dropping in the odd voice command just because they feel like they should with microsoft leaning over their shoulder.

Also whilst that titanfall gameplay looked awesome, I don't believe for a second that guy was actually playing it when they said he was. he didn't die at all, or even take any damage, everything worked perfectly, and the footage ended with him perfectly destroying the mech...

[Learn2Eel]

Ryse does look kinda cool, but also quick time event heavy. it was originally going to be a kinect game and that looks like it has changed. a lot of developers seem to have only a token use of the kinect so far, dropping in the odd voice command just because they feel like they should with microsoft leaning over their shoulder.

Also whilst that titanfall gameplay looked awesome, I don't believe for a second that guy was actually playing it when they said he was. he didn't die at all, or even take any damage, everything worked perfectly, and the footage ended with him perfectly destroying the mech...

Yep, my issue as well. Way too overboard with the QTEs. Methinks Microsoft told Crytek to make a God of War clone, and so far, it looks like a pretty pale imitation. Visuals look awesome, as does the unit command stuff, but the combat looked clunky.

Yep.

[Mr Mystery]

Sounding more and more like Sony has this one sewn up tighter than a ducks arse....

£429? £429?? OOMPA! OOMPA! STICK IT UP YOUR ARSE!

[Kirsten]

Peter Molyneux has declared the Xbox One a success, so now we have confirmation that it will fail and not live up to the expectations :p

[Learn2Eel]

Molyneux is a very optimistic bloke, he would say the same about the PS4 even if their conference failed badly. I abhor his ego when talking about his own games and how they will always be "the best ever" etc but I do admire how positive he is.

[Kirsten]

hehe absolutely, but you know for a fact nothing ever lives up to his promises :p

[Learn2Eel]

Yep!
Quite a few people have mentioned it already; if the PS4 is $449 USD or $399 USD and doesn't over-charge ridiculously to the UK and Euro markets, they will win the majority of votes right there.

[Wildeybeast]

Ryse does look kinda cool, but also quick time event heavy. it was originally going to be a kinect game and that looks like it has changed. a lot of developers seem to have only a token use of the kinect so far, dropping in the odd voice command just because they feel like they should with microsoft leaning over their shoulder.

Also whilst that titanfall gameplay looked awesome, I don't believe for a second that guy was actually playing it when they said he was. he didn't die at all, or even take any damage, everything worked perfectly, and the footage ended with him perfectly destroying the mech...

I thought Ryse looked as boring as hell, even without the QTE. The on thing that did get me vaguely excited was Project Spark. That could have a lot of potential.

[Wolfshade]

Kirsten as eloquent as always. #xboxnone

[Kirsten]

yeah, will have to see how much the games are going to be. the ign feed are talking about the massively rising development costs, but it doesn't have to be. Look at Metro Last Light. might not be your cup of tea gameplay wise, but from a technical stand point it matches any triple a title. they made it for a fraction of the budget, fraction of the staff. in an environment where they had to smuggle their work PCs into the country, in a building without constant electricity or heating. SOme of my favourite games from this generation, Limbo, Shadow Complex, Battle Block Theatre, all arcade titles that don't need massive development costs.

[DrLove42]

Yep!
Quite a few people have mentioned it already; if the PS4 is $449 USD or $399 USD and doesn't over-charge ridiculously to the UK and Euro markets, they will win the majority of votes right there.

Remember the PS3 was £425 pounds, and $550 when it was released several years ago. Sure Blurays have gotten cheaper, but we don't know what it'll be. I can see them being very equivilent price points

As for the conference, they made up for the reveal. Nothing but grade A games from start to finish. ONly a few misses for me in there

[Kirsten]

Kirsten as eloquent as always. #xboxnone

high five :D

[Learn2Eel]

Remember the PS3 was £425 pounds, and $550 when it was released several years ago. Sure Blurays have gotten cheaper, but we don't know what it'll be. I can see them being very equivilent price points

As for the conference, they made up for the reveal. Nothing but grade A games from start to finish. ONly a few misses for me in there

That's the point though, Sony pretty obviously would have learned from their PS3 pricing. If they come out $100 or more cheaper than the One then they are in the driving seat.

[DrLove42]

IGN apparantly just confirmed that the PS4 will have the same pre owned rules and apparantly is always on, not just once a day

Haven't seen it confirmed elsewhere yet though

[Learn2Eel]

That is their prediction, not confirmed.
Sony do some stupid stuff but they won't talk about it during the conference, probably afterwards.

[Kirsten]

IGN apparantly just confirmed that the PS4 will have the same pre owned rules and apparantly is always on, not just once a day

Haven't seen it confirmed elsewhere yet though

Sony have already said a few weeks ago they never considered having the PS4 always on. IGN said that the publishers will be the people who decide the preowned market, but that is as Learn said, a prediction.

[Learn2Eel]

The thing is, the Sony President said it will play used games. So if anything, it will be publisher directed as well if it does indeed have used game DRM.

[Learn2Eel]

Nice, the Insomniac exec that presented their Xbox One exclusive said that they are still working with Sony. Good stuff!

[DrLove42]

Maybe

I'll watch Sony's conference tomorrow hopefully.

MS showed me a lot of games I want to play. Thats all that matters to me really.

[Learn2Eel]

Hmmm. It is 5am here. I stuck around a bit too much in the post conference. When the Insomniac dude leaves I'll take a quick nap and be up at 10am for Sony's conference an hour later. Good thing I'm not working at the moment!

[Wolfshade]

Probably the best place for this (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22868787)

"Tax is certainly a major factor. In the US, sales tax varies from state to state and is added to the headline price at the checkout. In the UK, the 20% VAT charge is included in the price you see.

Even accounting for tax, though, the consoles are more expensive in the UK - around £36 more for the Playstation, and £39 for the Xbox.

Import tariffs do not come into play here. The UK does levy charges on certain items, but consumer electronics are usually exempt. Laptops, mobile phones and video games consoles are duty free, so Customs Duty does not affect the final price.
"

[Learn2Eel]

Just thought I would post this here for anyone confused about how the cloud will work. In short, it won't be Microsoft's answer to Sony's hardware advantage, not at least for an incredibly long time (a decade or more).

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-can-xbox-one-cloud-transform-gaming


By David Coombes Published Tuesday, 28 May 2013

Xbox One will sit in your living room and burn through not the paltry 1.2 teraflops of computing power as was rumoured, but almost five teraflops - as much as the flagship £800 NVIDIA Titan graphics card. And then it will get faster and faster over time. At least, that's if the latest Microsoft PR campaign is to be believed. But how realistic is it to move game processing to "the cloud" and keep adding to the resources developers have available? Do Microsoft's claims have any basis in reality? Is this a tactical play to compete against the tangibly superior fixed-spec of the PlayStation 4 or is this really just wishful thinking?

Prior to Xbox One's reveal, gamers were already well-informed of the hardware specs thanks primarily to the Microsoft whitepaper leaks found on VGLeaks. Next to PS4, Durango, as it was known, looked like a significantly less capable machine - the same CPU but with lower memory bandwidth and an inferior graphics core. But anyone watching the reveal and subsequent architecture interviews with Microsoft's Larry Hryb will have seen a concerted effort by the firm to address this with numerous references to "the power of the cloud".

Marc Whitten, chief product officer, described the upgrading of Live to 300,000 servers and put the computational power into perspective by suggesting that this would have enough CPU power to match the potential of every computer in the world, judged by 1999 standards. Matt Booty, general manager of Redmond Game Studios and Platforms, recently told Ars Technica, "a rule of thumb we like to use is that [for] every Xbox One available in your living room we'll have three of those devices in the cloud available," suggesting some 5TF of processing power for your games, a sentiment echoing Australian Microsoft spokesperon Adam Pollington's assertion that Xbox One was 40 times more powerful than the Xbox 360.

With such phenomenal amounts of power available, Xbox One is potentially some two-and-a-half times more powerful than PS4 and able to go toe to toe with expensive top-end gaming PCs. However, there are numerous technical barriers to realising this that brings into question the validity of Microsoft's statements.

Let's start with a quick look at what they mean by 'cloud computing'. Before PR and marketing people brought their fancy buzzwords into the equation, 'cloud computing' was known as 'distributed computing'. This means taking a computational workload and distributing it over a network across available processors.

The idea of cloud computing is to create large server farms full of generic processing power and to turn them from one job to another as needed. Microsoft's existing cloud platform is called Azure, started in 2010, and it's been steadily growing in market share against rival products from Amazon and Google. For developers to be able to use cloud processing, they need both a structure for turning game code into jobs and a means to interface with the servers. This game code model has already been pioneered with this generation's multi-core processors. Developers quickly learned to break their games into jobs on PS3's Cell processor and use a scheduling program to prioritise and distribute jobs across available resources. As for the server interface, Microsoft has developed 'Orleans' and we know it's being used for Halo, but we don't know how.

"A rule of thumb we like to use is that [for] every Xbox One available in your living room we'll have three of those devices in the cloud available." - Matt Booty, general manager of Redmond Game Studios and Platforms
orleans

Orleans is a cloud-based system built for the Halo team. As Microsoft puts it, "[Orleans] offers a simple programming model built around grains, a unit of computation with private and shared state that communicates exclusively by sending messages to other grains and receiving and replying to requests from clients. Combined with the Orleans runtime, which provides functionality commonly used in this type of system, Orleans raises the level of abstraction and helps developers build scalable correct cloud applications."

With those pieces in place, it's certainly possible that developers could send computational requests to servers and access potentially limitless processing power, depending on how much Microsoft wants to spend on its servers. However, there are another two significant pieces of the puzzle: latency and bandwidth. Microsoft has acknowledged the challenge of the former, but hasn't commented at all on the latter and it's a fundamental bottleneck to the concept.
The two challenges - latency and bandwidth

Latency is going to affect how immediate the computational requests of the cloud can be. When a game needs something processed, it sends a request to a server and waits for the reply. Even assuming instantaneous processing thanks to the power of the servers, the internet is incredibly slow in terms of real-time computing. A request from your console has to find its way through numerous routers and servers until it reaches its destination, and the results have the same labyrinthine journey back. To put this in perspective, when the logic circuits of a CPU want some data, they have to wait a few nanoseconds (billionths of a second) to retrieve it from its cache. If not in cache, the CPU has to wait as much as a few hundred nanoseconds to fetch the data from main RAM - and this is considered bad news for processor efficiency. If the CPU were to ask the cloud to calculate something, the answer won't be available for potentially 100ms or more, depending on internet latency - some 100,000 nanoseconds!

As a game has only 33 milliseconds to render a frame at 30FPS, such long delays mean the cloud cannot be relied upon for real-time, immediate results per frame. If you crash your Forza car into a wall, you don't want to see your vehicle continuing through to the other side of the scenery for the next three or four frames (even longer on those inevitable internet hiccups) until the physics running on the cloud return with the information that you've crashed.

The latency issue is something Microsoft recognises, with Matt Booty saying, "Things that I would call latency-sensitive would be reactions to animations in a shooter, reactions to hits and shots in a racing game, reactions to collisions. Those things you need to have happen immediately and on frame and in sync with your controller. There are some things in a video game world, though, that don't necessarily need to be updated every frame or don't change that much in reaction to what's going on."

With latency an issue, the scope for cloud computation is limited to a subset of game tasks. Okay, we can work with that, but we still have the last great consideration - bandwidth.

"Wildly variable levels of bandwidth worldwide are another problem, but even the fastest consumer-level internet connections in no way compare to the internal bandwidth of a modern console."
bandwidth

Akamai's outlook on real-life internet bandwidths around the globe makes for grim reading for those looking to work with data-intense cloud systems. Note that the UK doesn't even make the top ten.

The quarterly Akamai state-of-the-internet report keeps us up to date on bandwidth available on the real-world internet. Average broadband speeds in the developed world struggle to reach over 8mbps as of Q3 last year - that's only one megabyte per second. This means that whatever cloud computing power is available, consoles will have available to them an average of 1MB/s a second of processed data. If we compare that to the sort of bandwidth consoles are used to, the DDR3 of Xbox One is rated at around 68,000MB/s, and even that wasn't enough for the console and had to be augmented with the ESRAM.

The PS4 memory system allocates around 20,000MB/s for the CPU of its total 176,000MB/s. The cloud can provide one twenty-thousandth of the data to the CPU that the PS4's system memory can. You may have an internet connection that's much better than 8mbps of course, but even superfast fibre-optic broadband at 50mbps equates to an anaemic 6MB/s. This represents a significant bottleneck to what can be processed on the cloud, and that's before upload speed is even considered. Upload speed is a small fraction of download speed, and this will greatly reduce how much information a job can send to the cloud to process. Taking the Forza crash example, if the console has to upload both the car collision mesh and scenery mesh to the cloud for it to calculate whether they have collided or not, that's going to take several seconds.

Of course, we wouldn't send data over the internet without compressing it first. It's through compression that OnLive manages to stream high-definition game video over those same slow internet connections. If OnLive can do it with games, why can't it be done with game data for cloud computing? The main issue here is that video can be compressed with lossy algorithms that throw away large amounts of data that the viewer is insensitive to, producing a video that looks largely like the uncompressed source while needing a fraction of the data. This isn't possible with game data like AI or physics states or models.

Various less efficient but non-destructive compression techniques can be used such as zip and Lempel-Ziv (LZ), and it's of note that Microsoft has included four dedicated 'Memory Move Engines' on its main processor, two of which have LZ abilities. One has LZ decode and the other LZ encode, meaning Microsoft has such interest in compressing data that it has dedicated silicon to the job instead of leaving it to the CPU. The raw specs of 200MB/s data decoding is certainly enough to handle any amount of data traffic coming from the internet at broadband speeds, but the inclusion of these engines sadly doesn't point conclusively to an intention in streaming compressed assets from the cloud.

"There's very little in the official or unofficial leaked Xbox One specs to suggest that cloud support was integral to the design of the new console hardware."
moveengines

So is there any evidence in the Xbox One spec that the cloud is integrated at a hardware level? Well, there are some compression/decompression engines but their efforts would in no way address the extremely low bandwidth available compared to the throughput of data around the console's internal architecture.

It has long been faster to load and decompress assets from slow disk drives then to load uncompressed data, and these memory engines may just be present to facilitate such ordinary tasks. With full developer access, there's no reason to think developers won't use the memory engines with downloaded assets, but even then these cannot solve the bandwidth limitation problems of cloud computing. LZ compression typically achieves in the order of a halving of file sizes, effectively doubling the broadband connection speed to still insignificant rates.
What can the cloud actually be used for?

What this means is that cloud computing cannot be used for real-time jobs, something Microsoft has admitted. What it could be used for though are large datasets that are non-time-critical and can be downloaded in advance to the HDD.

Microsoft readily acknowledges this. Matt Booty said, "One example of that might be lighting. Let's say you're looking at a forest scene and you need to calculate the light coming through the trees, or you're going through a battlefield and have very dense volumetric fog that's hugging the terrain. Those things often involve some complicated up-front calculations when you enter that world, but they don't necessarily have to be updated every frame. Those are perfect candidates for the console to offload that to the cloud - the cloud can do the heavy lifting, because you've got the ability to throw multiple devices at the problem in the cloud."

If we look at a typical game's requirements of its processors, we can look for opportunities to utilise the cloud. A typical game engine cycle consists of:

Game physics (update models)
Triangle setup and optimisation
Tessellation
Texturing
Shading
Various render passes
Lighting calculations
Post effects
Immediate AI
Ambient (world) AI
Immediate physics (shots, collisions)
Ambient physics

Of these, only the ambient background tasks and some forms of lighting stand out as candidates for remote processing.

Lighting has been named as a possibility for cloud processing by Microsoft. Lighting has a history of pre-calculation, creating fixed data that is stored on disc and loaded into the game. Early use of this concept was "pre-baked" lightmaps, effectively creating textures with the lighting fixed in placed, which could look fairly realistic but was static and only worked with non-interactive environments. Advances like pre-computed radiance transfer (PRT) have made pre-calculated lighting more dynamic, and the current state-of-the-art is Unreal Engine's Lightmass featured in the next-gen Unreal Engine 4. This pre-computes light volumes instead of the real-time calculations of Epic's former SVOGI technology which was deemed too computationally expensive. Although the cloud could not run SVOGI type dynamic lighting due to latency and bandwidth limits, it does offer the possibility of 'pre-calculating' lighting data for dynamic scenes.

Things like time-of-day can be uploaded to the server, and the relevant rendered lighting for the local area sent back over a few minutes. This data will be saved to HDD and retrieved as the player walks around. Delays in updating such subtle changes won't be apparent, so the problem is highly latency tolerant. Dynamic lights like muzzle flashes cannot be handled this way so the developers would still need to include real-time lighting solutions, but advanced lighting is one area the cloud could definitely contribute.

However, improvements in local rendering power and techniques have made real-time global illumination - realistic without the artifacts and limitations of prebaked lighting - a real possibility without needing servers. Crytek's cascaded light propagation volumes were shown running on a GTX 285 in 2009 and was extremely impressive. A future Battlefield game with destructible environments is going to want an immediate lighting solution as opposed to shadows and lighting updating a few seconds after every change.

"Although the cloud could not run real-time global illumination due to latency and bandwidth limits, it does offer the possibility of 'pre-calculating' lighting data for dynamic scenes."

The notion of off-loading lighting to the cloud has some advantages, but real-time solutions - such as Crytek's cascaded light propogation tech - suggest that next-gen hardware will be capable of doing these calculations locally. Further, cloud-based lighting wouldn't be so good with games with environmental destruction - updates would lag noticeably in non-static environments.

Another known possibility for cloud computing is AI, not for direct interactions such as determining if an NPC should duck or shoot, but for background AI in living worlds like Grand Theft Auto and Elder Scrolls. The complexity of these games has always been limited to the console's resources, and AI has often been very limited to simple behaviour routines. Cloud computing could run world simulation and just update the player's local world over time, allowing the world to live and respond to player actions. Such complex game worlds could be a significant advance, but they are also constrained to a limited set of game types. Games like Xbox 360's flagships Gears of War and Forza Motorsport have little need for smart NPC AI of this kind.

So what other options are there for cloud computing? In this regard, perhaps it's a bit disconcerting that Microsoft seems stuck for ideas. In the Xbox One architecture panel, Boyd Multerer, director of development, had this to say: "You can start to have bigger worlds. You can start to have lots of players together, but you can also maybe take some of the things that are normally done locally, push them out, and... you know, this generation is about embracing change and growth while still maintaining the predictability the game developer needs."

Marc Whitten, chief product officer, said in a post-event interview: "We can take advantage of that cloud power to create experiences and really pair with the power of the box. So game creators can use raw cloud computation to create bigger multiplayer matches or bigger worlds, more physics, all those things. I think you're going to see unparalleled creativity when you match that power of the new Xbox Live with the power of the new Xbox."

Neither is presenting a clear vision for cloud compute opportunities, while both mention increased numbers of players. We also have recognition of the importance of the local hardware. Nick Baker, console architect, commented on the usefulness of AMD's multitasking GCN architecture, telling us, "The GPU as well is multitasking so you can run several rendering and compute threads so all of the cloud effects and AI and collision detection on the GPU in parallel while you're doing the rendering..."

That's something of a mixed message, although Microsoft does say it is treading new ground here, paving the way into new territory, so it behoves them to provide conventional solutions for games. If we attempt a little more creative thinking than Microsoft, there are a couple of options for the cloud that the firm doesn't seem to have hit upon. Procedural content creation, a big buzz-phrase waved around at the start of this generation but which never got anywhere, could be performed online to generate textures and models, filling a city with varied people and buildings.

"Allegorithmic's Substance Engine creates textures algorithmically using local processing power. The same tech could be used in the cloud to create assets, such as maturing people and environments, creating worlds that age."

Mathematical generation of textures is the focus of this demo of Allegorithmic's Substance Engine. Off-loading procedural generation is one of the potential uses for the cloud that could find its way into console gaming.

Allegorithmic's Substance Engine, available for PS4 and (we would presume) Xbox One, creates textures algorithmically using local processing power. The same technology could be used in the cloud to create assets, such as maturing people and environments and creating worlds that age. Given Peter Molyneux's years-old aspirations for such lifetime world persistence, it seems a good fit to take Fable to the cloud and run it on servers that grow your world, although the remarkable amount of processing power in the consoles (a teraflop is still a lot of processing power) could well be enough for this in itself seeing as such changes are so slow and could be run in parallel with the rest of the game. We can also imagine procedurally generated speech. Maybe with suitable research, servers could use highly demanding speech simulation to create realistic NPC chatter that adapts to the game, instead of endlessly recycled prerecorded sound bites.

Another possible use disregards the processing power and focuses on the virtually limitless storage of the cloud. We already have simple games using the whole world as a gameplay space, such as GeoGuessr using Google Earth. As mapping technology advances, we can expect far more detailed representations in future. Project Gotham Racing was limited to the environments captured by Bizarre that could fit on the disc. Imagine if the data of Google Earth and the modelling techniques of Bizarre could come together in the next Forza, so you could pick any location in the world and start driving. With cloud storage breaking through the limits of disc-based game storage, it's certainly possible. Euclideon's Unlimited Detail tech hints at a future of 3D scanned worlds, and one can't help but wonder how long it'll be before Google takes out Kinect-style 3D cameras to scan the world in all dimensions.
Economic considerations: why multiplayer makes sense

Beyond the technical considerations of what is and isn't possible due to bandwidth and latency constraints, there are of course economic considerations. Running a server to provide a solo player game is extremely expensive. It makes far more sense to use the servers to run multiplayer games, and that was alluded to by the Microsoft spokespeople all suggesting enhanced multiplayer experiences. In this respect, Microsoft's vision doesn't seem far removed from the age-old ideas of MMOs and server-based gaming. A server running a living, breathing Elder Scrolls world with cloud-computed lighting and AI would only make economic sense as a multiplayer experience, at which point it becomes an Elder Scrolls MMO.

However, this implies that any game running on a server with the console as a client can add the server's computational power to the console when really they are two distinct entities working together. When you play Battlefield 3 on your Xbox 360, do you have the equivalent power of a dozen Xbox 360s because the server is notionally that powerful? Microsoft's claims seem pretty wishy-washy against such a comparison, and without the explicit clarification that they are literally installing four teraflops of server power for each and every Xbox One bought, the claims of that power target can only be considered bogus PR hand-waving to try and detract from the performance deficit with their rival.

"Imagine if the data of Google Earth and the modelling techniques of Project Gotham could come together in the next Forza, so you could pick any location in the world and start driving."

Virtually limitless storage is something that the cloud could excel at. Take a look at Euclideon's Geoverse tech to get an idea of the potential in this area.

Furthermore, there's the issue of how game developers are supposed to target this cloud experience. What if the internet is not available, or running slowly? Games players may find constant high-use data streaming sees their ISP move them onto slower, less reliable connections. And this doesn't even factor into how bandwidth may be utilised in the home - what happens to your Xbox One cloud title if someone else in the home is streaming Super HD Netflix video?

Matt Booty, talking to Ars Technica, addressed this in a less than convincing way, with the same lack of certainty as Microsoft's remarks about how the cloud could be used.

"In the event of a drop-out - and we all know that internet can occasionally drop out, and I do say occasionally because these days it seems we depend on internet as much as we depend on electricity - the game is going to have to intelligently handle that," he suggested, somewhat weakly.

Booty urged us to "stay tuned" for more on precisely how that intelligent handling would work, stressing that "it's new technology and a new frontier for game design, and we're going to see that evolve the way we've seen other technology evolve".

Of course, dealing with the internet's fickle nature is nothing new and plenty of technologies have been developed for online games, but the demands of cloud-based processing on large problems will present new hazards to navigate. Developers may need to have backup systems that aren't reliant on an internet connection, such as a conventional lighting system. Hypothetically, gamers run the risk of artifacts like Rage-style texture blur-in or laggy multiplayer-style NPC updates where data is lost and the game has to use whatever it has available for the lighting until the cloud service catches up.

For cross-platform titles running on PS4 and PC, there's the question of the economic sense in developing Xbox One specific cloud-based augmentations rather than using the same cross-platform algorithms toned down for the Xbox's less powerful GPU. This places Microsoft in a conundrum - if the cloud is unavailable to its rivals, it is unlikely to be used in third-party games and the Xbox One is unlikely to benefit outside of a few exclusives. If Microsoft does extend its cloud service to other platforms, it loses the computing advantage claimed for Xbox One.

What's obvious at this point is that the concept of cloud computing looks uncertain and unlikely, and Microsoft needs to prove its claims with actual software. Yet based on what we've been told, the firm itself isn't sure of what uses to put it to, while the limitations of latency and bandwidth severely impede the benefits of all that computing power. Frequent references to Live and multiplayer gaming suggest a less exciting, though certainly valuable, use for Microsoft's new servers in providing better, conventional, multiplayer experiences. More players, adaptive achievements and intelligent worlds all sound great in theory, but we're certainly not seeing the notional results of a four-fold increase in Xbox One's processing power.

Microsoft needs to prove its position with strong ideas and practical demonstrations. Until then, it's perhaps best not to get too carried away with the idea of a super-powered console, and there's very little evidence that Sony needs to be worried about its PS4 specs advantage being comprehensively wiped out by "the power of the cloud".

[Psychosplodge]

I'm sure they'll stream a £1000 gpu to a £400 box over a victorian phone system, can't imagine anything going wrong there...

[Learn2Eel]

Suffice it to say that the stuff Microsoft have said about the cloud is just that; PR crap. It won't magically give it a performance edge over the PS4 either at release or probably in the next decade.
And then you read this article from IGN, where an Xbox dev claims that the specs don't matter. Yes, because specs don't matter when you are selling inferior hardware for $100 more (in most regions) :rolleyes: Becoming $40 more if you include the PS4Eye.
I would be amazed if they don't sack their PR team by the end of the year....

[DrLove42]

TLDR

INteresting...Don Mattick, the guy at MS who pushed for ONline only and all the DRM **** has now left MS to work for Zynga. Those Facebook games....

[Psychosplodge]

When's the PR team following?

Apparently there's a funny webcomic about U-turn on penny arcade, but I can't find it :(

[Kirsten]

http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd380/KirstenIGMB/pennyarcade_zpsa452a56d.jpg (http://s1216.photobucket.com/user/KirstenIGMB/media/pennyarcade_zpsa452a56d.jpg.html)

[Psychosplodge]

YES that must be it!

[Mr Mystery]

Heh.

And Microsoft are doing adverts in the UK about varying tracking levels, because our privacy is a concern.

Though not of concern enough not to have the option and capability of spying on their customer's front rooms of course.... :p

[DrLove42]

You can turn the camera off you know?

[Mr Mystery]

Not if you want to play games I believe.

Still well, well creepy. It's listening to you all the time man. All the time

[DrLove42]

Its a legal requirement for sale in Gernamy that it can be switched off


Interestingly, todays news is that there wont be any inputting codes for DL stuff. The kinect will scan QR codes....

[Learn2Eel]

TLDR

INteresting...Don Mattick, the guy at MS who pushed for ONline only and all the DRM **** has now left MS to work for Zynga. Those Facebook games....

I wouldn't say he was the one pushing it, more that he was the public face when those announcements were made. Nonetheless, I'm stoked that he's gone. The PR team surely has to follow though.


http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd380/KirstenIGMB/pennyarcade_zpsa452a56d.jpg (http://s1216.photobucket.com/user/KirstenIGMB/media/pennyarcade_zpsa452a56d.jpg.html)

Lol!

Yeah scanning codes is helpful, saves you a minute of making sure you don't enter it wrong. Mostly a convenience thing. Much better than those 15-digit long codes!
Still nowhere near enough good juice for me to reconsider it though, I will have to wait a year and see what other exclusives are coming out, particularly when Sony have more on the way overall.

[DarkLink]

http://v.cdn.cad-comic.com/comics/cad-20130703-0082b.png

Naughty language, so I just left the link.

[Psychosplodge]

http://i41.tinypic.com/6899mq.gif

http://i43.tinypic.com/jj0jtt.gif