How do you handle imperial vs. imperial battles? [Archive] - BoLS Lounge : Wargames, Warhammer & Miniatures Forum

Kahoolin

11-03-2009, 08:35 PM

Like most people one of the main things I like about 40k is the background, and the reason I choose my armies is because I pretty much like playing make-believe that I'm the general of a bunch of space army men :)

So I picked Guard because I like being the good guys, and I also have some sisters. I like the idea of being mere humans in the crazy universe and all that. Thing is my friend I play with has a huge Ultramarines army because he likes being the good guys too (apparently even more than I do). This hasn't really been a problem much before, we've just ignored the narrative element, but there comes a point where you get kind of sick of "training exercises", and neither of us wants to be the bad guy all the time.

I was thinking of creating a narrative that can explain all our battles while allowing both of our armies to be heroic, something like this:

"Blah World was the epicentre of a full scale chaos incursion that was brought under control by the combined might of an imperial guard army group and the forces of the Ultramarines. After the incursion was contained Inquisitor Blah discovered that the taint had infected the whole elite of the planet. The Ultramarines executed the governor and smashed the ruling families. The navy blockaded the planet and then the Ultramarines began the sad task of cleansing the world.

Unfortunately for them, Cardinal Blah has refused to surrender to justice. He has persuaded the pious High Commander of the remnants of the IG that the marines have fallen into heresy, and has inspired the local sororitas convent to defend the faith. The remaining guard elements and the sororitas, believing the Ultramarines heretics, are not going to just lay down and die..."

I think this is pretty good. We can fight each other, my guys get to be the underdogs and my mate's guys get to be the shining knights defending the Imperium. Both think they are working for the Emperor against traitors, and Cardinal Blah may be tainted by Chaos or he could just not want to be stomped on by big blue boots.

How does your group justify imperial versus imperial battles, or the problem of too many good guys in general? At least the Imperium is a towering bureacracy full of human weakness, I'd hate to try and justify why two Eldar craftworlds or Tau septs would fight each other without one of them obviously being the bad guy.

Levitas

11-03-2009, 08:57 PM

I too have thought this, and have come up with a number of bizarre explanations beyond 'training'. The inquisition is always a favorite fall guy as they wield so much power but can become so corrupt. Even so its hard explaining Ultramarines vs grey knights.

Minor skirmishes will often arise between space marine chapters, for instance in the SW codex an alliance crumbles with flesh tearers after the wolves see the tearers unrelenting carnage into the citizens they were protecting. Clash of ideals and methods is a common reason, so too is honor and even spoils of war. Is there also the black and white of for Imperium or against? Would an imperial commander become disillusioned with way the empire is crumbling? Would a space marine captain take his company away from the imperium but still not fall to chaos??

It is in the fluff, you just have to look lil deeper. The universe is filled with multi layered characters who are more shades of grey than black and white. The shining ultramarine is a genetically modified killing machine, that in itself would spark fear amongst a jumpy Imperial governor. The sisters of battle will follow imperial creed to the word almost, while space marines are a law unto themselves.

Of course these are minor squabbles and differences. In the face of a common foe they would unite. As would the waring nations of earth should we be invaded by aliens! ;)

Great post.:D

Melissia

11-03-2009, 09:10 PM

They're heretics. BURN 'EM!

... wait, they're loyal?

...

...

...

... BURN 'EM ANYWAY!

entendre_entendre

11-03-2009, 10:13 PM

They're heretics. BURN 'EM!

... wait, they're loyal?

...

...

...

... BURN 'EM ANYWAY!

this made me smile :)

eh, i guess playing chaos this never comes up for me, as i can fluff justify any chaos vs. chaos battles as a chaos champion recruiting match.

for the imperium, you could have the imperial factions representing different factions within the imperium with conflicting interests, that finally ends in bloodshed. for example: the guard was sent by the AdMech for blah reasons, while the UM's were sent by the =I= for blah reasons. they both want the same thing for themselves, and can't return to their allies empty handed, so decide to go get it before the other guy gets it, but lo and behold, the other guy's going for it, so they decide to take them out so they can take it for themselves, and so on.
this is the cool thing about the 40k background, as anyone could be the "bad guys" or the "good guys" one day, then the opposite the next.

Aenir

11-03-2009, 11:15 PM

Paintball match... that explains why my Deathwing isnt bone white, and why most of my guys refuse to wear robes... they are a pain in the *** to clean :)

eldargal

11-04-2009, 12:25 AM

Aldramelech

11-04-2009, 12:58 AM

'Mr Calgar?
'Yes little Brother Jimmy?'
'Planetary Governor Bob said Roboute Guilliman liked little boys and Lord Commissar Cecil lol'd and called me a 'dumbarse smurf'.'
'Time to take those *******s down, little Brother Jimmy.'

"No way man"
"Yes way"
"Harsh"
"He cant go around talking **** like that man, cause I got self esteem issues and ****"
"Bumer"
"Word"

Lord Azaghul

11-04-2009, 07:27 AM

Cryl

11-04-2009, 07:31 AM

The next day.
'Mr Calagr?'
Yes Brother Jimmy?
'All those Marines that we're supposed to teach those guard a lession...'
Yes?
Well they died...all of them.!
What How, we had power armour and drop pods!
Yes I know but they out number us 3 to 1, and lots of tanks and worse
Worse?
Yes sure, cover, lots of cover!

"Mr Calgar I say we take off and nuke the whole site from orbit, the only way to be sure..."
"Good plan Jimmy, to the thunderhawk mobile"

Sam

11-05-2009, 03:53 PM

There are several ways to justify this type of battle:

1. Training Exercises: A rather tame but effective justification (unless there are non-imperial elements involved as well).

2. Mistaken Identity: One or both sides believe the other to be traitors.

3. Conflicting Orders: The Departmento Munitorum, Adeptus Astartes, Inquisition, etc. and their component parts all have their own agendas, and with the exception of the Inquisition (at least in theory) none of these organizations have any authority over the others.

I can't really think of a situation at the moment that doesn't fall into these categories of Imperial vs. Imperial battles, assuming that both sides are loyalists.

Lord Anubis

11-05-2009, 06:29 PM

They're heretics. BURN 'EM!

... wait, they're loyal?

Innocence proves nothing!

In a universe with the Eldar, the Deciever, the various factions of the Inquisition, Tzeentch, and who knows how many lesser entitites pulling strings everywhere, I don't think it's that hard to believe loyalists would fight loyalists.

:)

Kahoolin

11-05-2009, 06:40 PM

imperialsavant

11-05-2009, 07:47 PM

One scenario I play against my mate Glen on a regular basis is my Puritan Inquisitor & Sisters Vs his Radical Inquisitor & Guard. We play in a Cities of Death inviroment & he is trying to obtain a Chaos Artifact left after a Chaos incursion & Iam trying to destroy it. Both obviously believe they are the "Good Guys"
We have played this on a number of occasions & it has always been a "Blast" ! :)

Nabterayl

11-05-2009, 07:55 PM

Conflicting orders works too. Dawn of War: Dark Crusade handled this pretty well, in my opinion. An Imperial Guard regiment was sent to reconquer a world that the Tau Empire had conquered some years prior. Unfortunately the world was infested with other kinds of xenos. The Blood Ravens arrived and unilaterally declared that they were purging the planet, and ordered the Guard regiment out of their way.

The Guard, naturally refused. Their orders were to secure the planet and that was that. With regret, the two forces clashed.

A variation on conflicting orders is conflicting ideas of what's best. Imperialsavant has a good example of that. If dealing with space marines or inquisitors this is fairly easy, as they aren't always working for the good of the Imperium. Dark Angels, for instance, will plow through other loyalist troops if they have to in pursuit of the Fallen. This could work with eldar, too. One farseer casts the runes and her craftworld's troops move to secure a particular object. Another farseer casts the runes and her craftworld's troops move to destroy the same object. Both farseers are convinced that they're right. What can the troops do but fight?

Majorcrash

11-05-2009, 08:30 PM

years ago I was a failthful member of the Imperium. But after years and years of playing IG vs mostly SM. I noticed a patern. Regardless of the outcome of the battle the SM commander always looked down his nose at them IG... CSM looked and acted an awful like the regular SM. The Spacemarines have forgotted what their primary duty is (defend Mankind) IG and others are barely better than the xenos. So when I look across the battlefield and see the shining example of SM's ( who by the way are no longer even human) who need a little reminding of their origins. Oh well battle cannons FIRE!!!!
The 22nd Valhallan which represent my IG army now regularly join forces with eldar and tau vs the Imperium.

DarkLink

11-05-2009, 10:13 PM

They're heretics. BURN 'EM!

... wait, they're loyal?

...

...

...

... BURN 'EM ANYWAY!

A plea of innocence is guilty of wasting my time, eh

Capn Stoogey

11-06-2009, 01:28 AM

WooHoo, a post about me!

I like the conflicting orders idea.

Lets say an imperial world is under attack from the Thousand Sons.

Now theres a couple of bastions in a defensive position, and the Guard has been ordered to hold it at all costs as its a prime location to repel the Thousand Sons advance.

Unfortunately the Ultramarines have decided the position is too defensible, and would be crippling to the Imperial forces should it be captured by the Sons, so they have been ordered to destroy it lest it fall into their hands.

Both Commanders, being too proud and stubborn to back down, follow their orders to the letter, leading to some steamy Imperial on Imperial action....

The only problem with any of these ideas is how to keep it going through a campaign instead of just a one off battle.

Kahoolin

11-06-2009, 01:38 AM

Yeah that sounds cool. As to extending it into a campaign, that's easy - instead of a world under attack, it's a system, and instead of some bastions, it's a whole planet :D

Capn Stoogey

11-06-2009, 01:43 AM

Game on!

Jay Biga

11-09-2009, 05:21 AM

I'd hate to try and justify why two Eldar craftworlds or Tau septs would fight each other without one of them obviously being the bad guy.

Eldar versus Eldar is easy. Each Craftworld has its own theory of how the Eldar should be saved. And while there is constant travel through the webway and as such there is plenty of communication between Craftworlds, conflicts of interest can and do happen. And since the Eldar aren't the tree hugging hippies of yesteryear anymore, they do on occasion blow the crap out of eachother.

Jay Biga

11-09-2009, 05:28 AM

Thanks for the replies :)

I think people have slightly misunderstood me though, or I didn't get it across well enough. I meant to ask what is a good reason for loyalists to fight each other without one of them being "the bad guy?" It's tough.

It's easy to say "the marines are good, the inquisitor is a heretic" or whatever, but then the poor =I= player never gets to be the good guy, which is probably one of the reasons he picked that army in the first place. If I wanted my guys to be traitors I would have collected chaos instead of loyalist, and the same goes for my friend's marines.

It's just hard to think of reasons loyalists would fight where they are both still truly loyal. Mistaken identity is pretty much it.

You could even explain it away by having your Inquisitor being the ultimate good guy. He's a hardliner. The galaxy only exists in black and white, there are no shades of grey. So hey, naturally the Blood Angels with their weird rages and the Dark Angels with their secretiveness must be heretics. Hell, Lysander of the Imperial Fists (whom with a name like that you expect to be goody little two shoes) was dragged halfway across the warp! Ain't no way I believe him to be untouched! Burn them I say!
And don't even get me started on the Space Wolves! What a degenerate lot they are! Sure, they may be Marines, but they use their feet to scratch behind their ears, bark at the moon and have a tendency to chase the mailman! This genetic defect can only be chaos inspired. And even if there is a chance that it may not be the hand of Chaos at work, it's better to err on the safe side.

Capn Stoogey

11-12-2009, 12:05 AM

So basically what you're saying is that the Ultramarines are perfect in every way?
I wholeheartedly agree sir!

Melissia

11-12-2009, 06:46 AM

Kahoolin: Yes, Marine players do tend to be rather self-aggrandizing like that. But even the ultramarines aren't as goody-goody as their players want them to think no matter how hard GW tries to push that view in order to increase its profits.

Jay Biga

11-12-2009, 01:16 PM

I hope that wasn't aimed at me...
Sure, I play Ultras, but I hardly consider them nice guys. In fact, they'd make the Waffen SS look like boyscouts.

I could find a million reasons for an Inquisitor to find fault with the boys in blue.
The main reason I play Ultras: Easy painting. Not their backgrounds. I am and will always be and Ork player at heart (my first army and the one that will always be close to my heart).

Melissia

11-12-2009, 01:28 PM

Me, intentionally aggravate Marine players? Pshaw, never.

sicarius2424

12-14-2009, 10:49 PM

nice story line man may use that for me and my friend :p :oit's just that dan good i play 2nd company ultramarines in the progress and 111th "big red ones" IG

druchi

12-15-2009, 02:41 AM

Our FLGS we usually can come up with a wealth of ideas from breakdown in communications between forces, conflicting orders, or even an Adeptus Mechanicus funded research unit deemed by the other side to be dabbling in heresy :P

There is so much you can do with Imperial vs Imperial!

My all time favourite was because alot of local gamers play guard a reason to fight was at the staff meeting it ended up in a good ol game of fisticuffs and now they are having their units meat it out to decide who was best :p

Subject Keyword

12-16-2009, 05:10 PM

Hah. You think that's difficult? Try justifying Necrons Vs. Necrons. :confused:

The Imperium hate everything that isn't painted the same colour as them.

Kahoolin

12-16-2009, 08:19 PM

Hah. You think that's difficult? Try justifying Necrons Vs. Necrons. :confused:Short circuit? :p

DarkLink

12-16-2009, 09:58 PM

Hah. You think that's difficult? Try justifying Necrons Vs. Necrons. :confused:

Honestly, I'd imagine that'd be a fairly boring battle.

"Ok, I rapid fire you."

"I make all my armor/WBB saves. Now I rapidfire you."

"Ok, I make all my armor/WBB. I rapid fire you again."

"All saved. My turn to rapid fire you."

"I make all my armor/WBB saves. Now I rapidfire you."

"Ok, I make all my armor/WBB. I rapid fire you again."

"All saved. My turn to rapid fire you."

"I make all my armor/WBB saves. Now I rapidfire you."

"Ok, I make all my armor/WBB. I rapid fire you again."

"All saved. My turn to rapid fire you."

"I make all my armor/WBB saves. Now I rapidfire you."

"Ok, I make all my armor/WBB. I rapid fire you again."

"All saved. My turn to rapid fire you."

"I make all my armor/WBB saves. Now I rapidfire you."

"Ok, I make all my armor/WBB. I rapid fire you again."

"All saved. My turn to rapid fire you."

and so on and so forth

Inquisitor Gray

12-17-2009, 09:23 AM

I always liked the idea that the =I= did things that they saw as necessary,but any other person would see as a evil crime. For example, you could go after any Imperial group by saying that both of you fought in some battle recently, and saw some crazy warp beast, or maybe saw a new heretic sect, and now that they have been beaten, you need to make sure the other group does not go blabbing about it. Or you could even be more evil, and say you are actually trying to get your own attached IG group killed along with your once ally, and figured having them fighting each other is the quickest way. That way you are both working for the Imperium and are evil.

Gotthammer

12-17-2009, 10:15 AM

Hah. You think that's difficult? Try justifying Necrons Vs. Necrons. :confused:

Short circuit? :p

No disassemble!

Battlegrey

12-17-2009, 07:55 PM

How did I justify Imperial versus Imperial battles?
I didn't. I started a Xeno side collection instead.

Fellend

12-18-2009, 06:36 AM

Thanks for the replies :)

I think people have slightly misunderstood me though, or I didn't get it across well enough. I meant to ask what is a good reason for loyalists to fight each other without one of them being "the bad guy?" It's tough.

It's easy to say "the marines are good, the inquisitor is a heretic" or whatever, but then the poor =I= player never gets to be the good guy, which is probably one of the reasons he picked that army in the first place. If I wanted my guys to be traitors I would have collected chaos instead of loyalist, and the same goes for my friend's marines.

It's just hard to think of reasons loyalists would fight where they are both still truly loyal. Mistaken identity is pretty much it.

In my campaign I play Black Templar and my friend play IG. (our other two friends play Tau and CSM) It all started with the BT hunting Tau and the Tau making a planetary assault on the IG world. BT contacted the IG saying you are now our meat shield, help us kill Tau.
The IG commander objecting to being "enlisted" by BT refused saying that he will kill ANYONE that tries to land on his planet. This includes me.
I see this as traitorious and criminal incomptence as Tau has managed to get a foothold on a Imperial Planet thanks to him being obnoxious. So I decide to invade trying to avoid the IG as much as possible but killing them if they get in the way.

This all works out great because his Imperial Guards are near enough numberless. He has several factions, there's his Personal Commander (Oppenheimer) that has secret orders to defend some ancient relic on the planet and refuses to let anyone get near. He has his traitor Colonel Spiers that has gone over to worshipping Khorne and sides with the CSM when needed and he has his Elite Sergeant, the lone survivor of a CSM ambush who now believe that Oppenheimer is insane and the only true way to win is to ally with the Black Templar.

Thus he can side with anyone he wants without ever actually ruining the fluff. Remember, I might only have 200 Space Marines, but the IG has millions upon millions of soldiers.

Fellend

12-18-2009, 06:39 AM

So basically what you're saying is that the Ultramarines are perfect in every way?
I wholeheartedly agree sir!

"You got banished by the Ultramarines? What did you do, turn left on the excersing field while everyone else turned right?" - Iron Warriors leader to Cpt Something Ventris in the ultramarines novel.

Renegade

12-18-2009, 05:16 PM

But playing BT against Imperial is easy. *Points finger* "They are tainted, Kill Them All!" even if its other BT.

Imperial vs Imperial is not that hard, and neither player needs be the "bad guy" per se. Just have them operate from another persective of "good".

In the 41st millenium, there is no peace, only WAR! Yay!

Subject Keyword

12-19-2009, 11:32 AM

Short circuit? :p
That made me, to put it in vulgar terms, "bust a nut" laughing. :D
Thanks. You busted my nut. :mad:

Honestly, I'd imagine that'd be a fairly boring battle.

You would imagine correctly.

druchi

12-20-2009, 11:29 AM

Not really with Deep striking onoliths veil of darkness and all those yummy goodies!

Magos

12-20-2009, 06:57 PM

Subject Keyword

12-21-2009, 09:19 PM

Considering both Imperial Factions I have are rather mysterious, it works out. My Death Spectres are probably up to something, and dont want to talk about it.

The Ad Mech are against anyone who stands in their way of aquiring technology.

Do I ever stand in the Ad Mech's way, Magos?
Remember that epic battle on the air-hockey table where you plasmafied my *** to death in, like, the first turn? That hurt.

And I know what your Spectres are up to. They're making a cake that says
"Ding Dong, Daniels Gone."

Magos

12-21-2009, 10:29 PM

Subject-Thats why i love plasma. Which reminds me, I am almost tempted to buy another leman russ executioner. Just for the hilarity of so much plasma fire. but 4 leman russes are enough.
I think....
I really want a Plasma Baneblade Varient, but what the hell is it called.

It would explain where the Death Spectres Strike Cruiser went to, their isent a Harris Teater in all of Segmentum Obscurus, they had to run over to Solar.

Anyway, I would say Demons are the easiest race to justify it fighting each other.

How the hell do you justify Tau Vs Tau Battles?

Fellend

12-22-2009, 06:09 AM

Tau vs Tau. Isn't that why Commander Farsight exists? To justify that. Othwise there's always demonic possession/corruption.

I'm more curious as to why eldar would fight each other. Baring demonic possession there's to few of them to actually warrant any wars. I'm pretty sure that it's even mentioned in the codex that larger battles between craftworlds almost never takes place they have some ceremonial battle thing to solve it instead.

I guess that' what eldar do then, mock battles of doom

Herald of Nurgle

12-22-2009, 07:32 AM

Fellend

12-22-2009, 11:19 AM

And the Imperium doesn't go under my version of the Emperor is better than your version of the Emperor and then Khorn laughs at the ensuing slaughter catagory? =P

Subject Keyword

12-22-2009, 08:48 PM

but 4 leman russes are enough.

Yes. Yes they are.

Then Slaanesh comes and noms on them...
DAMN! I just busted my other nut!
Slaanesh "nomming" on them just makes me think about lolcats ransacking eldar...
"I can has your souls?"
"Sadistic cat is sadistic"
"Monorail cat delivers reinforcements"
"Ceiling cat is watching you DIE!!!"
:D

Magos

12-23-2009, 12:58 AM

But I bought a Basilisk instead :D, and I may get a second one....

Guard Vs Guard is extremely easy to justify at least

Subject Keyword

12-23-2009, 10:12 AM

But I bought a Basilisk instead :D, and I may get a second one....

Damn your eyes.

The.Justinian

12-23-2009, 10:18 PM

We don't see this much as codicies are written as propaganda pieces for their own armies,

But back in the RT/2nd days, and even in the 3rd big book, it was dead clear that the Imperium had a great number of cracks in the wall. Most of this now exists in the FF RPGs, but is still very clear in the visuals of the minis themselves. For a thousand reasons, the empire has been falling down for ten thousand years. Power plays within the administratum. Incomplete geneseed submissions by chapters (see the Astral Claws campaign that the Fly Lords put together). Prophets of the emperor preaching a gospel of hope and renewal, then paving the way for Tzeentch to seep in. Genestealer cults. Inquisitorial purges.

Really, its' the steadfast devotion of the Astartes that hold it together. The guard serves its masters--Planetary nobles, the administratum, the inquisitor that has hijacked them, or the master of profit under the banner of a Rogue Trader (my army). Sometimes, in the process of defending their homes or holding back alien menaces, they do the right thing. But in the grim dark of the future, mankind fights mankind just as often as it does the alien menaces threatening to burn their way to Terra.

Whenever the two of you fight, think of it as you would any war between armies with noble warrior ethics, but bent on paving their correct interpretation of the truth in a path of human blood. Think of how when the alien menaces showed up, you might again stand shoulder-to-shoulder.

That's the beauty of 40k...that one day you can be the good guy, another the bad, and sometimes just the ugly guy. There are a great many battles where I watch the 'nids eat their way across the world and say 'good riddance.' Then there are others where I tear up thinking of the calamity. The same goes for the Eldar; their beauty, their art and grace, and their defiance of death/extinction itself...and in the same breath, their arrogance, ennui, and stoicism---(think of Elrond when he's acting the dick). Within the tales of the internecine wars of the imperium, the story is no different.

And of course, all it takes is one general posessed by Khorne to turn on his buds...

supervis24

12-28-2009, 05:49 PM

Imperial vs Imperial is the easiest thing to justify. Just shout 'HERETIC' at each other for a few minutes and open fire.

Subject Keyword

01-02-2010, 02:23 PM

Imperial vs Imperial is the easiest thing to justify. Just shout 'HERETIC' at each other for a few minutes and open fire.

I like your Avatar.
Even if it is killing Necrons, it's nice to have them mentioned as a legitimate threat.
People underestimate us...

LemanRussCommander

01-09-2010, 12:56 AM

How about Pvt. Smuckatelli stumbled onto a SM battle ritual and freaked out. He went back to tell his squad but a SM saw him leave. The SM swoop in take out the squad to hide the ritual and then the Commisar gets pissed cuz he's the only one allowed to kill his guardsmen.

papa smurf

03-19-2010, 10:49 PM

here's one for you kahoolin. Honor plays a big part in some imperial factions and commanders, as well as rivalries. some examples:

Dark Angels and Space Wolves have a very tense rivalry, and although they both are loyal, i believe there is some fluff about them having champions fight whenever they end a conflict together. i'm sure this could lead to bigger clashes as well.

also, in the Gaunt's ghost novels some imperial regiments look down on the first and only, and i can imagine some regiments hatreds or rivalries run so deep that conflicts can occur.

along with previous ideas like conflicts of orders and commands, rivalries and honor could probably invoke fighting among loyalists of all kinds, be they Space Marines or Imperial Guard.

as for Tau vs. Tau, Farsight could be an easy solution, another idea might be that some tau lose faith in the greater good, and that just doesn't fly with other tau.
also, the Tau do not like when Kroot serve as mercenaries for other races at all, Kroot actually go to great lengths to keep that a secret from tau. an army could fight trying to punish the tau, while the tau serving alongside the kroot mentioned may feel that their kroot allies don't deserve punishment and will protect them, having formed a bond of brotherhood in the flames of war.

and of course, i think tau, compared to any other race, can justify a training simulation, what with all their special technology and whatnot. heck, one army could be a bunch of holograms!

Rift Knight

03-19-2010, 10:56 PM

Seeing as my Black Widows are loyal space marines whoever I am fighting are either heretics, aliens, or just plain worst scum of the galaxy.

Praise the Emperor and Burn the Heretic.

Legoklods

03-20-2010, 09:21 AM

The soloution to this is easy my friend. If there are guardsmen involved, then they are HERETICS!

If you have 2 marine chapters fighting eachother then you will have to come up with something better:rolleyes:

Fellend

03-20-2010, 12:41 PM

No the other side is obviously heretics!

Icepick

03-28-2010, 03:49 PM

Well, I'm working on a guard army, so if I need to fight loyalists, I just swap my standard bearers for the ones with Chaos Icons and call it a day.

LoverzCry

04-05-2010, 09:06 AM

Typically in my group we roll a die, and depending on a high or low roll and how we're playing, one of our forces will have been temped by chaos and have turned traitor. We usually try and explain this through some sort of chaos sorceror influencing the minds of the troops. The sorceror uses the HQ to control their forces and send them against the enemy. Depending on who wins, determines whether the chaos sorceror was found and slaughtered or if he managed to continue to control the Imperial forces and continue to wreak havoc. Just a kinda fluff fluffy way of explaining it. Actually, kind of similar to what happened in the Imperial Guard novel Cadian Blood.