Simple changes to a single unit

[zanzibarthefirst]

If you coudl make a simple change to one unit what would it be?

Necrons
-make the necron rule stubborn
-give wraiths rending or power weapons
-make pariahs necorns and give them I4 and/or 2A
-make flayed ones troops
-phase out rule removed

Dark Eldar
-make splinter rifles assault weapons

Chaos
-make lash 1D6
-dameons wepaons dont take a wound on a 1
-make sonic blasters standard for a small points icnrease
-chapter-tactics like system for chaos

Witch hunters
-Give Celestians access to BP+CCW
-Change Sarissas so that they're one point per model and able to be purchased by the whole squad.
-Give all Adepta Sororitas units bolt pistols and/or frag grenades.
-Give Dominians Scouts.
-Make Immolators either the same cost as a razorback or give them AV12 front armor.
-Make Penitant Engines into a monstrous creature with stats that make it more survivable than it is now.
-Reduce the price of Palatines so that there is actually a reason to take them.
-Reduce the cost of Arco Flagellants, or increase their survivability.
inquistors similar to CCS setup

SM
-give pskers an invulnerable save
-make DA and BA tactical squads same as standard
-combat shields work in CC only
-remove Vul'kan
-make Vanguard cheaper with jump packs
-T5 terminators
-make drop pods fast
-make SW troops dearer
-SW standard profile for all terminators

IG
-give penal legion grenades
-give rought riders ccw and las pistol after they charge

Tau
-give Shaper power weapons/fists

General
-get FAQs out quicker
-change rapid fire to dual profile

By the end of it, i'm sure we could manage to address every simple little issuewithout making things overly complicated

[Purple]

give pariahs the necron rule

[Melissia]

Geeze, where would I even begin? There's so many changes that I'd love to see that it's impossible to pick just one.

So let's just give a list of simple changes.

Give Celestians access to BP+CCW
Change Sarissas so that they're one point per model and able to be purchased by the whole squad.
Repentia simply can NOT be fixed with a quick and simple change, so they're out of this discussion.
Give all Adepta Sororitas units bolt pistols and/or frag grenades. Hell even damn GUARDSMEN have frags... and the Sisters are going to be getting into an assault anyway, so might as well give them bolt pistols.
Give Dominians Scouts.
Make Immolators either the same cost as a razorback or give them AV12 front armor.
Make Penitant Engines into a monstrous creature with stats that make it more survivable than it is now.
Reduce the price of Palatines so that there is actually a reason to take them.
Reduce the cost of Arco Flagellants, or increase their survivability.

[Sam]

Give Penal Legion Squads frag grenades.

Give Librarians, Rune Priests, and any other psyker that doesn't have an invuln save an invuln save.

[zanzibarthefirst]

I would include sonic blasters in the profile of Noise Marines and make them 22pts

[Melissia]

*mutters something obscene and unladylike about bbcode*

[DarkLink]

Does rewriting all the Grey Knight Special rules (or at least most of them) count? The units themselves are great, you just don't get what you pay for from the special rules section.

[Katie Drake]

Make Dark and Blood Angel Tactical Marines the same as Codex: Space Marine ones.

Give Khornate Daemon units frags. I once had a unit of 4 Bloodcrushers beaten by 12 Kroot because the Kroot were in cover. It was embarrassing.

Change Combat Shields back to the way they were before - 5+ Invul in close combat only and make them available to Librarians. As it stands it's a bit stupid that a Librarian has to take Terminator armor for an Invulnerable save, which renders him less effective in close combat and slow as can be.

Vanguard Jump Packs should only cost 5 points per model - Heroic Intervention should be an optional ability available to pack equipped Vanguard for an additional 5 points per model.

I'd set fire to the page in the Space Marine Codex that Vulkan is on.

I'd rule that Spore Mines didn't give away Kill Points.

That's just a few of the things I can think of.

[zanzibarthefirst]

I would add an Iron Hands special character, maybe a uber Master of the Forge

[entendre_entendre]

- more options for a daemon prince (right now it's wings, or no wings)
- SM: equal wargear for all!
- veteran abilities for CSM lords that grant certain abilities for the army, with drawbacks, of course
- necron phase out rule removed/altered to make 'crons visible again on the TT
- i do like the sonic blaster idea for noise marines
- GW: faster FAQ's :p

[Aldramelech]

IG shot guns the same as SM shotguns
CC weapon for SM Tac Squads
Weapon options for IG Regimental Advisor's.

[Steelbull]

This may sound a little crazy, but I would like grots to be able to have the ability to go nuts when they are involved in CC. Nothing that could really devastate the opponent, but a sort of frenzy when they charge or get charged that allows them to have D6 initiative and/or get D3 attacks. They're still weedy enough to be put down quickly, but perhaps they take an extra enemy or two with them... Hmmm... 30 grots going first with 3 attacks apiece vs MEQ;
90 attacks, 30 hits on 5s, 5 wounds on 6s, just over 1 MEQ dead. I just like random potential I suppose.

[Kahoolin]

Rough Riders should keep their extra ccw when they drop their lance. Come on, they're guard, one extra WS3 S3 attack is hardly going to unbalance the game.

[Sitnam]

Make Flash Gitz 15 Points instead of 25.

Give Penal Legion squad leader equipment options

[zanzibarthefirst]

I would give penal legions the ability to take a special weapon

I would let IG sergeants have a lasgun

[Turbo_MMX]

Give kroot Shapers a Power weapon/ Power fist type grade!

[Frozen Tiger]

I want to make inquistor lords have a similar profile to company command squads. Basis inquistor lord, 4 henchmen which can be upgrades to x,y and z. Lord has refractor field and psycannon bolts, can select wargear and psychic powers.

[Cryl]

Give DE Warriors assault weapons
Give Tactical Marines a CCW
Give Pariahs the necrons rule
Make Drop pods fast vehicles so they can fire their storm bolter the turn they land

That's it off the top of my head :)

[Frozen Tiger]

Give DE Warriors assault weapons
Give Tactical Marines a CCW
Give Pariahs the necrons rule
Make Drop pods fast vehicles so they can fire their storm bolter the turn they land

That's it off the top of my head :)

dont DE warrors already get assault weapons like blasters, or do you mean their basic weapon?



Make SW infantry more expensive, the should not be as cheap as CSM.

[Cryl]

dont DE warrors already get assault weapons like blasters, or do you mean their basic weapon?

sorry yes that wasn't very clear, I did indeed mean that the basic splinter rifle should be assault rather than rapid fire

[zanzibarthefirst]

iI would make lash only d6 lake pavene of slannesh

[SombreBrotherhood]

Give SM Terminators of all stripes either T5 or another wound.

[zanzibarthefirst]

Give SM Terminators of all stripes either T5 or another wound.

is a 2+/5++ save not enough. I dare to imagine how you woudl possibly dela with sotrm shield terminators.

I would drop the 4++ save on thousand sons and give them 2 wounds again.

[N0rdicNinja]

These 3 changes would make me enjoy life greatly! ^_^

- I would make Flayed Ones troops
- Give Pariahs either I4 or 2 attacks... if not both.
- Make the Necron rule include Stubborn

And this one is just wishful thinking, but would be rather 1337 on the field

- Allow Pariahs to act as squad leaders of Warrior units

Edit: And almost forgot, allow Wraiths to ignore armor somehow, I would be perfectly happy with Rending.

[zanzibarthefirst]

is it surprising that most of the changes that have been pointed out have been from the necron codex?

I would make gaunts 6pts with a weapon and WoN

[Cryl]

- Make the Necron rule include Stubborn
Edit: And almost forgot, allow Wraiths to ignore armor somehow, I would be perfectly happy with Rending.

Add those to my list too!

[Sitnam]

I would drop the 4++ save on thousand sons and give them 2 wounds again.

I would just as soon make them cheaper or give them a 3++. An extra wound is just too Nurglish for me


- Allow Pariahs to act as squad leaders of Warrior units

I wouldn't say this is just wishful thinking. GW has made radical changes in all their newest dexes. A Necron squad leader would be a good change, and why not Pariahs? They are supposed to be the counter against the warp, why not spread em out?

[Purple]

-let c'tan deep strike. Allowing them to assault that turn would be too powerful but deep striking sounds OK

[Lerra]

I would model all terminators from now on using the SW model: basic terminators with power sword for 33 points or so. They can take a lot of upgrades, but you end up with very expensive terminators if you want them all to have storm shields and combi-weapons.

Also, I would change all rapid fire weapons. When you shoot, you can choose one of two profiles for the weapon: assault 1, or heavy 2. Rapid fire weapons seem a little bit impotent right now. (Surely this qualifies as a small change to a single unit . . . *ahem* >.>)

[zanzibarthefirst]

Sp far we have:

Necrons
-make the necron rule stubborn
-give wraiths rending or power weapons
-make pariahs necorns and give them I4 and/or 2A
-make flayed ones troops
-phase out rule removed

Dark Eldar
-make splinter rifles assault weapons

Chaos
-make lash 1D6
-dameons wepaons dont take a wound on a 1
-make sonic blasters standard for a small points icnrease
-chapter-tactics like system for chaos

Witch hunters
-Give Celestians access to BP+CCW
-Change Sarissas so that they're one point per model and able to be purchased by the whole squad.
-Give all Adepta Sororitas units bolt pistols and/or frag grenades.
-Give Dominians Scouts.
-Make Immolators either the same cost as a razorback or give them AV12 front armor.
-Make Penitant Engines into a monstrous creature with stats that make it more survivable than it is now.
-Reduce the price of Palatines so that there is actually a reason to take them.
-Reduce the cost of Arco Flagellants, or increase their survivability.
inquistors similar to CCS setup

SM
-give pskers an invulnerable save
-make DA and BA tactical squads same as standard
-combat shields work in CC only
-remove Vul'kan
-make Vanguard cheaper with jump packs
-T5 terminators
-make drop pods fast
-make SW troops dearer
-SW standard profile for all terminators

IG
-give penal legion grenades
-give rought riders ccw and las pistol after they charge

Tau
-give Shaper power weapons/fists

General
-get FAQs out quicker
-change rapid fire to dual profile


i think i've got most of them down. A lot of these are good suggestions and would probably lead to more varied lists. I'll put this list in the first page and update it when i can. together we're goign to put the world aka GW to rights :D

[Purple]

dont think there is much to add to necrons, other than WBB replaced by FNP and T increase for everyone

Let Possessed roll on the chart before deployment not after
make spawns less random or useful

give kroot a 6+ save as basic, its not lie it does that much

[Melissia]

Honestly, I think just adjusting Immortals to be a better (in the sense of points efficiency) anti-tank unit would really do all that is needed to be done for the Necrons.

[Purple]

I cannot remember off the top of my head how many points Immortals are (22? or something) but are immortals supposed to be an anti-tank unit? Fair enough in 4th edition they could put the hurt on tanks but with the nerf to gauss weapons, it shifts their role back to anti-infantry.
Yes necrons need more reliable anti-tank but i dont think immortals shoudl be filling in that roll

[Melissia]

Err, my bad, I meant heavy destroyers. I don't own a necron army, and there aren't that many players around here, so meh.

~200 points for three lascannons and three T5 wounds on a 3+ model isn't really a bargain.

[Purple]

yeah i agree that three lascannons for 200pts isnt great though im not sure how many points a 4 lascannon devi squad is.

How about making destoryers s7 ap4 heavy 2 giving them a more anti-light/medium tank role, leaving immortals there as anti-infantry

[Farsight]

I know this sounds like a bit much but perhaps an upgrade for Tau pathfinders to become relentless.
Also, kroot with a base save and shaper in a squad with a power weapon or something.

[zanzibarthefirst]

it seems kroot need some imrpovements as thats been mentioned before.
Not sure how you coudl justify relentless on pathfinders

[Purple]

still cannot think of a quick fix for heavy destroyers maybe s8 ap2 heavy 2? and increase the points ever so slightly just so you cannot get 6 mini-lascannon shots for aorund 225pts on a speedy resistilent platform

[Xas]

Also, I would change all rapid fire weapons. When you shoot, you can choose one of two profiles for the weapon: assault 1, or heavy 2. Rapid fire weapons seem a little bit impotent right now. (Surely this qualifies as a small change to a single unit . . . *ahem* >.>)

I gues you mean assoult 2 or heavy 1, right?

[zanzibarthefirst]

assault 2, heavy 1 sounds a bit better. Would they have the same range or could the assault 2 profile be only used at 12"?

[MarshalAdamar]

Range on tau weapons needs to be extended and some of the weapons need to be upgraded.

The Tau as supposed to be the shootiest army in 40K (with the exception of guard maybe) but their weapons barring the pulse rifle are worse than any equivalent weapons in other armies.

I mean. Burst cannon S5 AP5 18” Assault 3 REALLY?

Compare to say assault cannon S6 AP4 24” Heavy 4 RENDING OR
Heavy bolter S5 AP4 36” Heavy 3

Same STR as the heavy bolter with a worse AP and half the range!
And if you compare it to the assault cannon it just no comparison its just crap.

Less shots at less STR with less range and no rending.

I’m good on compromise, how about Burst cannon: S5 AP4 Assault 3 24” ?

The main problem with Tau weaponry is that by the time you can use it the enemy is upon you.

[zanzibarthefirst]

the problem i see with burst cannons and most battlesuit weaponry is that they are not the same as imperial heavy weapons. The fusion blaster ios like a meltagun not a multimelta, a plasma rifle=plasmagun. Making a burst cannon a portable heavy bolter doesnt sit right with me, yes make it more powerful but s5 ap 4 assault 3 range 24" is a biit over powered. If anything i would prefer the same profile as the wepaons necron immortals have s5 ap4 assault 2 24"
A few new weapons woudl be nice and if you can design some battlesuits that are inbetween crisis and broadside in terms of the size of wepaons they carry then a mobile heavy botler woudl be fine but crisis suits arent meant to carry weapons like that.
I'd like to see broadsides some with the weapons that FW sells for the hammerhead. That'll provide a reasonable cheap wepaons platform for when a railgun isnt needed

[darth_papi76]

Give the Avatar and Scorpions fleet.
Give ALL shuriken catapults 18 inch range
Give the Striking Scorpions the option for haywire grenades
Make the starcannon 3 shots again
Let Harlequins scout and (completely random) give Shrike's command squad the option of taking jump packs.

[zanzibarthefirst]

this one i've been thing of all day; give grey knights a drop pod assault/ daemonic assault rules.
give sisters drop pods

[Melissia]

I'd rather the Sisters get an uparmored arvus lighter turned into a skimmer (IE, a flying rhino).

[Purple]

this one i've been thing of all day; give grey knights a drop pod assault/ daemonic assault rules.
give sisters drop pods

sisters in drop pods :D (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2008/03/play-aid-ordo-hereticus-strike-force.html)

What units can use the avrus lighter? I dont think i've ever seen the rules for it

[Melissia]

sisters in drop pods :D (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2008/03/play-aid-ordo-hereticus-strike-force.html)

What units can use the avrus lighter? I dont think i've ever seen the rules for it
Fourth edition rules gave it to the following:

Company command squad, platoon command squad (both infantry and heavy weapons platoon), hardened veterans squad, stormtroopers squad, ratlings squad, ogryns squad.

Dunno about fifth edition.

[Duke]

I'd rather the Sisters get an uparmored arvus lighter turned into a skimmer (IE, a flying rhino).

With all due respect...

no,no, and no. It really doesn't sit right with me. Xenos are supposed to be the fast skimmer types (Eldar, tau) no skimming rhinos!

Duke

[MarshalAdamar]

the problem i see with burst cannons and most battlesuit weaponry is that they are not the same as imperial heavy weapons. The fusion blaster ios like a meltagun not a multimelta, a plasma rifle=plasmagun. Making a burst cannon a portable heavy bolter doesnt sit right with me, yes make it more powerful but s5 ap 4 assault 3 range 24" is a biit over powered. If anything i would prefer the same profile as the wepaons necron immortals have s5 ap4 assault 2 24"
A few new weapons woudl be nice and if you can design some battlesuits that are inbetween crisis and broadside in terms of the size of wepaons they carry then a mobile heavy botler woudl be fine but crisis suits arent meant to carry weapons like that.
I'd like to see broadsides some with the weapons that FW sells for the hammerhead. That'll provide a reasonable cheap wepaons platform for when a railgun isnt needed

I can see your point about the strength.

I would be happy with just range increases on the weapons.

The Tau are supposed to be the shootiest army. But all the weapons are short range. 12”, 18” or 24”

I guess my gripe is that the Tau don’t have much in the way of long range weapons. The Pulse rifle is great but that’s all the Tau have other than the rail gun that can reach out and touch someone. Which seems odd to me for the shootie army.

I can see no having “Heavy” weapons on the battle suits but the problem is that the vehicles suffer from having to take these weapons rather than longer ranged weapons.

Personally I think there should be a burst cannon (for the suits) and a heavy burst cannon for the tanks with more STR and range.

I like your idea of a heavy battle suit that could carry heavy weapons. That’s a good idea for the Tau. I think that if they would add the IA weapons to the Tau codex it would go a long way to improve the Tau army overall.

[DarkLink]

this one i've been thing of all day; give grey knights a drop pod assault/ daemonic assault rules.
give sisters drop pods

Drop pod assault really is a weakness in 5th ed, though. But yeah, they better give Grey Knights armywide deepstrike if they ever update the rules.

[Melissia]

Xenos are supposed to be the fast skimmer types (Eldar, tau) no skimming rhinos!Which is why the valkyrie isn't treated as a skimmer. Oh, and it's Fast to boot.

[zanzibarthefirst]

sisters in drop pods :D (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2008/03/play-aid-ordo-hereticus-strike-force.html)

What units can use the avrus lighter? I dont think i've ever seen the rules for it

Yeha i've got that pdf (many thanks BOLS) and that is where i got the idea from.

IA:A says that the avrus lighter can be used by any imperial guard squad. note imperial guard not anythign else. It owudl need some work to it tbh before it woudl fit in 5th edition. 70 points for a flying rhino minus the storm bolters, i think not. 50 at most. The other transport thingy can be used by a CCS and an inquistor lord.