Gav Thorpe on Eldar

[DrLove42]

Its not heresy so it gets it own thread

He wants to do a series about each Phoenox Lord and their experiences of the fall, similar to Primarches and the Heresy

[eldargal]

Love the idea, nice antidote to all the tedious Marine nonsense we've been getting.

[Mr.Pickelz]

I can't wait to see what Maugan Ra's story has in store, what with him losing his craftworld and all....

[Homeworld]

Nice, but I would prefer Andy Chambers. I liked his Dark Eldar novels much more than Thorpe's trilogy about Eldar (and I'm an Eldar enthusiast). Plot and characters were far more interesting. And I disagree with some Thorpe ideas about the fluff, especially about the average Craftworld Eldar population.

[Defenestratus]

Oh my god no. Whoever wrote masque of vyle should never be allowed top write a book ever again.

[bfmusashi]

I thought the Phoenix Lords were a post-cataclysm, post-path reformation phenomenon. So, would we be learning about their lives before discovering specialization? Will they explain just why a society with faster than light sidewalks built giant sub-luminal space craft for "trade?" Maybe why these craft existed in isolation yet had access to said ftl sidewalks? 'cause I would buy it just for that explanation and I would buy it hard if Jain Zar had a valley girl accent before the Fall.

[eldargal]

Learn your background:

a) The webway doesn't necessarily take you right to your destination, so you need other propulsion
b) The larger webway passages are large enough for smaller craftworlds to enter
c) The craftworlds are tens or hundreds of times larger 'now' than they were at the fall
d) Post-Fall the webway was shattered, cutting many direct paths and making some areas inaccessible or incredibly hard to get to
e) Some Craftworlds chose to be isolated because they believed they were the only survivors or all other survivors were corrupted by Chaos.

There is nothing to explain.

The Phoenix Lords WERE post-Fall, but the people themselves were not. One assumes each book would show who they were shortly before the Fall. how they survived, and why they would embrace Asurmans teachings.

[bfmusashi]

Learn your background:

a) The webway doesn't necessarily take you right to your destination, so you need other propulsion
b) The larger webway passages are large enough for smaller craftworlds to enter
c) The craftworlds are tens or hundreds of times larger 'now' than they were at the fall
d) Post-Fall the webway was shattered, cutting many direct paths and making some areas inaccessible or incredibly hard to get to
e) Some Craftworlds chose to be isolated because they believed they were the only survivors or all other survivors were corrupted by Chaos.

There is nothing to explain.

The Phoenix Lords WERE post-Fall, but the people themselves were not. One assumes each book would show who they were shortly before the Fall. how they survived, and why they would embrace Asurmans teachings.
First, if Asurman is presented as anything other than a crazy doomsday prepper I will be disappointed.
Second, Pre-fall Craftworlds are:
Described as isolated before the fall
Posess a sizable population
Designated as trade craft
Slower than light speed

These traits are in spite of webway access. It should be explained as it is the most "Because Reasons" part of their background. Even if it's something weird like Craftwords didn't have smaller webway gates or the ability to anchor them until after the destruction of their empire it should be stated. Other fun things to find out, who are they trading with? Did farseers exist? Whose room did Kaine move into?

[eldargal]

First, that makes sense I agree. I wonder what the eldar equivalent of a shelter full of space beans in a can is? A craftworld? Heh.
Second, you need the read something other than the 2nd edition codex.
Some isolated themselves pre-fall from the decadence of eldar society.
Yep, entire planetary populations potentially.
Not anymore, not all of them anyway. Many were built to allow populations to escape the corruption of the eldar empire. Some may have been repurposed trade vessels, others may have been scratch built. But they certainly weren't just merchant ships and the crew surviving by accident.

So I still don't think it requires much explanation. Certainly giving an indication of how the early Craftworlds were constructed and what their role was in a bit more detail would be welcome, though.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I'm just glad that some writers in the 21st century believe aliens can be legitimate and enjoyable protagonists. Before GW started doing Eldar books I was beginning to think the concept was lost in the early 20th century.

[bfmusashi]

I've read each of the codexes in turn so but I do not remember any of the craftworlds voluntarily isolating themselves without mentioning the whole 'we've been gone so long this decline to decadence is shocking.' That may be on me though as I found them horribly boring. If one of them mentions the Path, the practice of putting souls into the tears of Isha, or any other reason for their self-enforced isolation predating their evacuation efforts I missed it.

[SeekingOne]

While reading this thread I happened to stumble upon a curious thought...

Come to think of it, the Eldar Phoenix Lords are the only individuals (beside Harlequins, obviously, but those are a different matter entirely) that managed to find a way to truly escape the sad post-death fate that avaits other Eldar. Not only they escape the predation of She Who Thirsts, but they also rise back from the dead each time, retaining all of their individuality - unlike ordinary Eldar, whose spirits, after being transferred into Infinity Circuit, are usually described as gradually dissolving into oblivion.

Just how they (PhLs) happened to come across such... skilful means to preserve themselves indeed might be a really interesting topic to explore. I really hope Gav Thorpe is up to the task. His portrayal of inner workings of the mind of an Exarch in "Path of Warrior" is definitely cool and promicing, but a story of a Phoenix Lord would require yet much more grandeur, so to speak.

In any case, any readable fiction centered on the Eldar would always be welcome :)

[Lane]

I'm not sure the Phoenix Lords keep their individuality. They were the first Exarchs and I suspect they are much like those who followed. The original personality may be dominant but at least the first dozen or so to wear the suit would have an impact on the lords personality. By the 100th wearer the personality would be fixed and override that of the wearer. In effect the first few live on and the new guy rapidly dissolves into oblivion.

[Cpt Codpiece]

the thing people miss with the whole 'fall' issue. is the fall for all the 'birth' was rapid the gestation was slow.

the DE codex covers this pretty well. they were in the webway being pervs and what not and it spread out of the isolated pockets and took root in society.
the people who did not like it took off and formed hippy communes out of the way of the 'weirdos', these became the exodies preferring the simpler life of gardening and dragon taming :)

when the excrement really hit the fan with murder/rape gangs prowling everywhere, more people were like "WTF! were are leaving and finding a way to stop ourselves being like those 'Dark kin'", those are the craftworld eldar..... so late was their defection that they barely escaped and probably most did not (looking at maugan ra and altansar)

asuramen is said to have started his temple on his 'home world' not his 'craftworld' and the sadness in the aspects is that they can never reclaim their original temple as it is a crone world in the EoT, it would be funny if it was the world Lorgar visited or the world where Fulgrim ascended. again adds more weight to maugan ra heading off to pull his CW out of the eye, he didn't want to loose his temple twice.

im sure i read somewhere that ahrah destroyed the temple at the point at which the eldar fled in the craftworlds, maybe he was more true to his roots than anyone has covered yet, obviously the deceit inherent in the SS comes from the scorpion and the river tale, where the scorpion stings his saviour, simply because its his nature.

[Anggul]

preferring the simpler life of gardening and dragon taming

You know your race is awesome when this is the 'simpler life'. That said it isn't really gardening, they're nomadic and follow the dragons around.

[bfmusashi]

You know your race is awesome when this is the 'simpler life'. That said it isn't really gardening, they're nomadic and follow the dragons around.

You can be nomadic and still practice agriculture. There are several groups in Mexico that do just that.

[BigGrim]

After reading his Path books, I'm all for Gav Thorpe writing more Eldar books. He kick started the re-birth of my Eldar army after all!

[DrLove42]

I'd be most interested in Karandara's story, and the path of the scorpion.

We saw Ahra kinda in Path of Incubi, it'd be interesting to see that explored more.

And if Asurmen meets all the Lords to set the system, we'll see the Lords for the aspects we haven't yet....like who established the Warp Spiders

[widowson]

He didn't lose it, he just mis-placed it!

[Havik110]

I'm not sure the Phoenix Lords keep their individuality. They were the first Exarchs and I suspect they are much like those who followed. The original personality may be dominant but at least the first dozen or so to wear the suit would have an impact on the lords personality. By the 100th wearer the personality would be fixed and override that of the wearer. In effect the first few live on and the new guy rapidly dissolves into oblivion.

he took it from the path of the warrior

<SPOILERS> you have been warned

Im not kidding spoilers are coming....

Im not kidding spoilers are coming....

Im not kidding spoilers are coming....

In POTW our main character Korlandril (close enough) loses the ability to remove his warmask and is trapt by khain. he becomes an exarch. In order to be an exarch you need your own currently unused shrine. There just happens to be one. when Kor gets there he puts on the exarch's armor and for all intensive purposes joins a hive mind. There is one mind that is more dominant than the others but there are still individual minds and the collective seems to have to reach consensus to act.

in the final battle of the potw Karandras is mortally wounded while saving another scorpion who had been an incubus (old fluff incubus, still had a punisher). Korlandril exarch goes to Karandras's armor and is absorbed into the being. He said when he looked in the armor it was like looking into a galaxy of stars. There was no body in the armor. once absorbed, there was only Karandras, there was no collective, it was one being, one mind, incredibly ancient, filled with vast knowledge and power.

EVEN MORE SPOILERS

In the 3rd book, it is expressedly said that Korlandril's thread ends at the moment he joins with karandras.


So essentially the Phoenix lords may may keep their individuality.

It may also be that they are made of so many minds that adding one more voice is insignificant. The Phoenix lords follow battle, that is their purpose. It stands a good chance that they are KIA a lot, it also stands that if they are with their disciples that a new one puts on the suit a lot. so you could be right too...