Riptide Hammerhead Conversion Legality

[Shadoq]

Guys,
Fun little question here.
For my Tau, I've always been a suit army builder. I'm just not a fan of Tau vehicles.
Now, I love the Longstrike in a Hammerhead unit. It screams long range anti-tank to me. I've also been one of those players that like the Vanquisher/Pask combo even if there are better combos out there because I like the Tank Ace concept and the sheer giggle inducing power of shooting anti-tank 72" around the board.

If you read the title you can see where I'm going with this...
If I converted a Riptide to have a Railgun and SMS and made it obvious that it was an ace of sorts, do you think this would fly?/would you have any issues playing against it?

In a tourney I could see the potential issues and would get the tourney organizer's approval but just wanted to start the idea rolling...

[Nabterayl]

Well ... I certainly wouldn't object to playing against a converted Riptide that counted as a Hammerhead. That said, I do note that you might have an advantageous firing position due to your height, and the large oval base is a smaller footprint than a Devilfish chassis, making you a harder target against blasts and the like. Since you count as a skimmer, the height of the model is not really much of a disadvantage - you likely have a 5+ Jink save no matter what, so it doesn't much matter that you would find it harder to be "in cover."

These issues would not cause me personally to object to such a model, but they are the ones I see. One way to minimize them would be to pose your Riptide such that the railgun was at the same height as a Hammerhead's railgun.

[Shadoq]

HI Nabterayl,
Thanks for the reply.
As for pose, I was planning to do a crouching, "absorbing the recoil" pose so it would be lower anyways.
As far as footprint, any ideas on how I could negate that issue?
Perhaps bring a cutout of the hammerhead hull with me and if it becomes an issue, do an overlay to see if it would hit on the regular hammerhead?

[Tyrendian]

if you don't like the Tau tanks, why not make the Riptide stand on top of the wreck of one instead of a regular base? that would add more to its height, to be sure, but the sheer amount of awesome would probably make most opponents agree to playing with it - would certainly convince me...

[Nabterayl]

Keeping a Devilfish template handy is probably a good idea; most people probably won't care about the size difference, but that way you always have a way to make the minority happy. I like the idea of using a Devilfish as a base, too, or you could literally base it on a Devilfish silhouette.

[Magpie]

.... you could literally base it on a Devilfish silhouette.

Crouching with a base like that idea would be the solution that no one could really get justifiably upset about.

[ElectricPaladin]

I don't think anyone is going to care about the exact shape. It's not like GW considers the size of a model's base as part of their balancing act, or anything. I don't think "well, they're on large bases, which makes them a bit less flexible" is part of the advantage terminators have or anything. I don't think predators are costed lower because of their comparatively smaller rhino-based footprint, while chimeras are cheaper because they're a bit broader. It's true that there's a bit of a "big things are better" bias, but as long as you aren't doing something dumb ("this dude on a small base is a stand-in for a hammerhead... why are you laughing?") no one will care.

[bfmusashi]

Even though it quickly becomes more a diorama than a conversion or counts-as I like the idea of a Riptide tearing the railgun off the Hammerhead and using it (while ghost riding the whip on top of the tank), but I don't know how you'd model the hands coming out of their little sheaths.

[Wildcard]

Keeping a Devilfish template handy is probably a good idea;
I (& my group) actually object this. We have a rule that if you proxy something, you go by the model itself that has before hand been agreed to be something else. If you start bringing in some templates or rules "how it would actually be if it was the real thing" will create lots of problems. And not least those where people have thought differently, just to be negated that flank shot / piece of cover just because someone pointed out that "your bulky unit x would actually be a lot slimmer". Another great point why to rule against "how-it-really-would-be" templates touches weapons.



That said, I do note that you might have an advantageous firing position due to your heigh

This. This problem goes as much in hand in hand with the quote before this. If you start to measure how your "real tank" would actually be able to fire it will sure lead to some unfortunate fights about how someone thought that it could / could not fire through that obstacle / under that piece of scenery.

Also a concern of second nature. If you bring a unit type that is not currently allowed in normal 40k ( Tall vehicle ), there could be a serious change in meta of your gaming group.
Just a quick scenario here: Your group thinks that there are x number of LOS blocking terrain that they usually place on table. That LOS blocking terrain is of such height that no tank can fire over it. Now, all of a sudden one tank can (and can claim cover behind it obviously)



That said, i would most certainly like to see a well crafted custom piece on stand, but i just cannot make up my mind if i would be ok with it. It's one thing to change units from similar size category to other, (Bikers -> riders) or inside unit type x (from tank to tank). Its completely different (in gaming terms) to go for large mc to sleek tank :)
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However, if you would use it, i would go for plain base (with no foliage, tank wrecks, etc). Make sure to paint a WHITE X from corner to corner (preferably using the BOX-method), and then glue the model on top of that. (and maybe put a small marker, arrowhead or targeting mark in the front arc to make it always clear)

That way, your opponent could always see how the lines were, of which direction the shot would come from (what armor values / bonuses / other stuff would have to be considered in case of shot / assaults etc etc)

[Sly]

Make a cutout of the Hammerhead's shape from overhead, and use that to create a custom cardboard base. Now the unit has a base that is the same shape as the original model, so it's just as vulnerable to blasts. Make a diorama on it or something so it looks artistic, and you're set for all purposes.

[Paulo Picolomini]

I Would have zero problems playing against a Riptide Battlesuit counting as a Hammerhead provided the following conditions are met:

1. He must be in that kneeling/bracing position you described.
2. If possible he should be modeled holding a big Railgun from the Hammerhead kit. You can pick one up from any online bitz site.
3. He should be on a handmade base shaped exactly like the Hammerhead silhouette footprint.
4. The Riptide's waist should be built to swivel so that the main gun can pointed in any direction (like the Hammerhead).
5. You must be clear to your opponent before the terrain is set up what the hell is going on with your counts as conversion.
6. Since your opponent is being gracious enough to allow you to use this thing at all, if there is any ambiguity about cover or LOS regarding the Riptide during the game it should always be decided in favor of the opponent. If I play against it I should never feel like you are trying to model for advantage.
7. It must be painted up well and based to look awesome! But I'm sure it will be...

That is all. I look forward to seeing pics of this thing. Please keep us updated.

[ElectricPaladin]

I Would have zero problems playing against a Riptide Battlesuit counting as a Hammerhead provided the following conditions are met:

1. He must be in that kneeling/bracing position you described.
2. If possible he should be modeled holding a big Railgun from the Hammerhead kit. You can pick one up from any online bitz site.
3. He should be on a handmade base shaped exactly like the Hammerhead silhouette footprint.
4. The Riptide's waist should be built to swivel so that the main gun can pointed in any direction (like the Hammerhead).
5. You must be clear to your opponent before the terrain is set up what the hell is going on with your counts as conversion.
6. Since your opponent is being gracious enough to allow you to use this thing at all, if there is any ambiguity about cover or LOS regarding the Riptide during the game it should always be decided in favor of the opponent. If I play against it I should never feel like you are trying to model for advantage.
7. It must be painted up well and based to look awesome! But I'm sure it will be...

That is all. I look forward to seeing pics of this thing. Please keep us updated.

These are excellent guidelines. I think that erring in favor of your opponent is a good idea, in general, when you're talking about odd conversions. As I wrote earlier, I don't think that the exact base size is a very big deal, but YMMV. Perhaps you could magnetize it so you could offer to place the Riphead on the hammerhead-shaped base if need be.

[Shadoq]

I Would have zero problems playing against a Riptide Battlesuit counting as a Hammerhead provided the following conditions are met:

1. He must be in that kneeling/bracing position you described.
2. If possible he should be modeled holding a big Railgun from the Hammerhead kit. You can pick one up from any online bitz site.
3. He should be on a handmade base shaped exactly like the Hammerhead silhouette footprint.
4. The Riptide's waist should be built to swivel so that the main gun can pointed in any direction (like the Hammerhead).
5. You must be clear to your opponent before the terrain is set up what the hell is going on with your counts as conversion.
6. Since your opponent is being gracious enough to allow you to use this thing at all, if there is any ambiguity about cover or LOS regarding the Riptide during the game it should always be decided in favor of the opponent. If I play against it I should never feel like you are trying to model for advantage.
7. It must be painted up well and based to look awesome! But I'm sure it will be...

That is all. I look forward to seeing pics of this thing. Please keep us updated.



Terrific first post!

The Waist thing is an excellent point.

Since it is going to have disruption pods and with jink, it should be a non-issue for cover generally but I can see how it would be a bit hairy in certain situations.

I know you guys don't know me from Adam or Jack but I always like to think that I play completely fairly and will always give my opponent benefit of the doubt in situations like side vs front armor and other weird occurrences. 40K is a 2 way street. If both people aren't having fun it is not going to end well.

And frankly, if my opponent has a huge beef with it and throws a hissy fit, I'll just put a regular Hammerhead in play. I hate the model but again I have enough drama at work. 40K is my chance to unwind, relax, and shoot the crap with the "boys".


Thanks for the awesome discussion guys and keep the comments coming! The more I know and the more issues that are brought up, the better this will be.

I'll be posting more once the project gets rolling.

[Cpt Codpiece]

I Would have zero problems playing against a Riptide Battlesuit counting as a Hammerhead provided the following conditions are met:

4. The Riptide's waist should be built to swivel so that the main gun can pointed in any direction (like the Hammerhead).


nope sorry :)

i never have my vehicles 'animated'.

guns, hatches, crew all get stuck in place. magnetized for options maybe, but moveable parts are not for me.
i build, paint and play with models..... not 'toys' (yes i know they are just big boy toys, but there is a large difference). and i know i am not alone in this opinion. however..........
............ pointing out the logic of 'the waist can pivot, same as a tank turret' should be all that is needed to anyone with common sense.

but yeah id love to see the finished model :) and the full suit army too :)