Help with filling out an inhereted Nid army!! Your input is appreciated!!

[Blood Angel]

So I was building a really nice Nid army back about, oh, seven or so years ago (Man does time fly), and my buddy had just got out of a bad marriage and messy divorce. He had sold EVERYTHING he had (you know EVERYTHING) to support his wife, (at her command) so when he got free, I gave him about 2500 points or so of Nids.

Years later, I bought a set that was mostly painted (kinda sloppy, but real organic looking and looks acceptable on the table top and more importantly, easy for me to replicate the paint on the last 20 or so units and any new ones.

I have a few questions.

This set has some OLD minis. Most could fit in without too much trouble if the paint matches, but here is question number one:

I have the Middle (time period) Hive Tyrant. It's the one that has the smaller "Chimney" vents on the back and the head looks just like the Mama Alien from Aliens. It's obviously metal and I like the look and paint job enough to want to keep it in my army, but I like the new Model better for my Tyrant. I was wondering about using this metal tyrant as a prime. He's bigger than the warriors, but still smaller than the plastic Hive Tyrant. He is also equipped with Scything claws and Venom Cannon (but that can be changed, I did get a buttload of bits with this army). Has anyone done this? Or do most people just use a warrior to be the prime, and If so, how would you outfit him as a prime. I mean most people go with bone sword and whip coupled with either a ranged weapon or scything for the Tyrant. I don't have those anyway, so I would just buy a new Tyrant box and use this guy as the prime.

I have 3 warriors that came with this, one had a devourer, one has I think the death Spitter and the other has I believe the Venom Cannon again. I took the one with the devourer and popped off the arms and put Claws in the devourer's place. I wanted at least one CC badass.

I was wondering: Question number 2: should I go for a mixed unit like this? Or keep them all ranged or all CC. Obviously I can have more than one brood if I want, so Maybe one shooty and one CC?

Another unit I got is a single Ravener. I see they come in broods of 3 minimum now, but up to 9. I'm not really sure if I want to use this guy or even use Raveners at all. He originally had a devourer in hand, I switched it out for Claws. So he's got 2 sets of Scything and one set of claws, no "thorax" weapon, but I suppose I could just say he has one if I want, I mean the plastic ones don't really do much special for their thorax mounted weapon. One looks like a hole and the other looks like it's normal front, but with bumps.

So Question number three: Raveners or no Raveners, and if so, what options? The codex is confusing on this as it stated Every Ravener may take... or The entire brood can take, but pictures in the codex show broods with mix and match, I would think by the wording, it would be all or nothing on the options. Anyone? Bueler?

There is a metal Zoe, I wonder If I should get more. I do want Doom. I've got my butt kicked by him so many times, now it's my turn!! lol.

Gargoyles, I have like 10 or 12 or so. Metal. No need to worry about options with them. Weapon wise anyway.

Old One Eye!! This has painted metal Old One Eye. I love this model. He's pretty expensive and a similar outfitted Carni is like 70 points cheaper?? Something like that? Probably not going to fit him in the army except maybe fluff list for fun.

This army has one biovore, I do know that I need several to be an effective artillary unit.

There are between 24 and 28 termis and hormis each and like about 20 or so genestealers, maybe more.

I think that's it. Anyway. I'm def going to upgrade the Tyrant, I want a Trygon or Mawlock just because they are freaking cool models. Not sure which build though. I will be picking up at least one carnifex and I have a nice mycetic spore for a single carni. If I do a build with a trygon, maybe a tervigon, swarm of termigaunts, swarm of hormigaunts, Doom, Prime, Warriors, Stealers, a single all claws and scything carni with mycetic, Gargoyles, New Tyrant with whip and sword and ???. There are a few ripper swarms here too. maybe add in.
Multiple Hive Guard, Multiple Biovores.

anyone got any input how to use these existing guys with a decent build? or is there just too much stuff to squeeze in here in one 2000 point list. As for tactics, I know nothing except what one wise Tyranid player told me many moons ago. He said play them like they are ALL expendable, as that is what they are. Tyranids die, there is no hero to protect and bring back victorious, they can always make more from their goop.

So there it is. I know this is long winded, but I really like these little guys and they are the closest army to being completely finished and painted and everything that I have. I'd like to get them on the table in maybe a week or two if possible.

Oh, and are Lictors even useful anymore? Everything seems so straight forward in 6th, and peoples lists are getting so streamlined that a Swiss army knife army probably won't work too much anymore.

Oh, any Ideas on anti flyer? I read something about twin-linked deathspitters or something. I can't remember where. I'll have to keep looking and see if I can find that article again.

Thanks in advance for any input!!

[Wolfshade]

A meaty set of questions, I approve :D.

Question 1: This really comes down to what sort of gaming you do. I would suggest that most "pick-up" or "friendly" games wouldn't have a problem of using a counts-as or proxy. There are some people who complain, but I have old terminators, old land speeders and old rhino-based tanks and they claim that this is gaming for advantage, but fortunately I've never met one in real life.

Question 2: To specialise or no, that is the question. There are lots of different takes on this, a lot depends on how you pay and obviously, a unit that is all rounder isn't as good as one that specialises in one thing or another. Obviously, being able to both shoot and melee is useful and gives you a level of redundancy and "all-roundedness", it comes down really to how you play. A close combat unit that has points spent on shooting are points that could have been spent on more close combat and vice versa. The way I play I prefer to have units with a specific function, so I rarely mix weapon types, e.g. melta and plasma. It comes down to how you like to play I would suggest.

Question 3: I have seen Ravenors used very effectively before now, the can tie up the enemy units while the rest of the "slower" moving force pushes up, there is a little article here about them http://www.fritz40k.com/2013/01/tyranids-ravener-build-for-40k-6th.html.

Zoes are great in my opinion, synapse and high strength low AP boom!

There is an ok little discussion here about nids in 6th http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?22845-Tyranids-in-6th-edition, which talks about Old One Eye.

As for tactics there is a simple one, advance! More over the importance of synapse cover is very essential at making sure that you can do what you wish.

If you decide that you dislike the paint you can always strip them with Dettol :)

[Slacker]

With the size of that old hive tyrant metal model (if it's the one I'm thinking of), I think it makes a good Tyranid Prime. I run my Warriors as hybrid melee/shooting, specifically bone swords & lash whips plus deathspitters, they're expensive that way (but warriors start off expensive to begin with) but I find them really versatile that way.

I really like the Ravenors, you just have to be careful what you throw them at, and I usually start them on the board as the move super fast. I run them with thorax weapons so if I decide to deep strike them they can actually do something beyond running on the turn they come in, but most will say the thorax weapons are a waste of points.

As far as adding stuff, Hive Guard are pretty snazzy, and Zoes are also quite good.

Lictors are pretty useless now (which makes me sad) they are a little too expensive to just be a distraction, not quite hardy enough to stick around so long to deny objectives (even if in cover) and don't compare well with the other units in the elite slot.

Anti air is tricky for nids, flying hive tyrants with tl devouors can be decent against most flyers, other than that spreading out on the board limiting their movement can affect how effective your opponents flyers can even be.

[Blood Angel]

Hey guys, Thanks for the suggestions. Yes Slacker, The TL devourers on the tyrant was what I had read somewhere. I guess there is no model for that, you have to kit bash although It seems easy enough. Would making it flying be necessary? or could it just dakka from the ground like Anti Aircraft? I'm assuming it needs to fly otherwise every other model with devourers could shoot as well.

Also RAVENER!!! I'm still confused. In the codex it says:

every ravener in the brood may replace one of their sets of scything talons for...
And
The entire brood may take one of the following...

first one, every ravener in the brood sounds like if one is going to do it, every one must do it. As a matter of fact, both of those replacement rules seem to me to say that if one does it they all must, but the sentences are worded different which is also odd. If they both have the same meaning, why change the wording from every ravener may to the entire brood may. This would seem to indicate that the rules have different meanings, because they are worded differently, but the wording seems to both place emphasis on Every or the entire which to me means ALL.

So, what is the meaning of these, the second one is obvious, the entire brood may take one of the following, so if you want to take one of the following, the ENTIRE brood must. But the first "every ravener in the brood may..." seems a bit squishy to me. It kind of could be interpreted different ways.

So can anyone clear that up for me?

Thanks,

[Tepogue]

So, what is the meaning of these, the second one is obvious, the entire brood may take one of the following, so if you want to take one of the following, the ENTIRE brood must. But the first "every ravener in the brood may..." seems a bit squishy to me. It kind of could be interpreted different ways.

So can anyone clear that up for me?

Thanks,

Per the FAQ from GW

All Raveners must take the same equipment.

For the metal Tyrant, if you are a modeler, I took mine, moved them forward into a hunched position, added an egg sac, and call them Tervigons. Just remount on one of the huge oval bases.

[Wolfshade]

Tepogue is quite right, from the latest FAQ:


Q: Can Ravenersin the same brood be equipped with a mixture of
Scything Talons and Rending Claws? (p37)
A. No, all Raveners in the brood must have the same options

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2940052a_Tyranids_v1.2_JANUARY13.pdf

[Anakzar]

For one thing all the warriors of a brood have to be armed the same with one exception of the heavy weapon. So you can't mix and match in that manner... your 3 all with different weapons will have to be remodeled or just get some more! heh. I have not had much luck with 3 warriors in a brood anyhow due to instant kill str 8 weapons (sure wish they were still T5/W2) So if I do use them I run 6 in a brood(with tyranids broods are always multiples of 3, just my fluffy rule carried over from 2nd ed) usually rending claws with deathspitter/heavy (because that's how my old 2nd ed ones are modeled) that's sure expensive. I tend to run a prime in a group of 30 gants for more survivable synapse.

Hive guard are nice. Zoanthropes are nice lance S10 AP1 weapon is great for ranged tank popping even if its only 18 inches and the blast Str5 AP3 is not bad either. I like to run 3 and make one swap powers for either biomancy hoping for buffs or Telepathy(if roll bad pick up Psychic shriek) Don't forget the doom in a pod with Psychic shriek is always good threat...

Biovores rock if used in groups of 3 barrage is nasty and will force lots of saves on even high AV targets some will fail. Best of all they can shoot out of line of sight(just don't get to subtract the BS off the scatter)

I like a mawlok over a trygon for the fun large blast str6 ap2 fun of popping him up on a group of long range weapons that think they are safe back there behind the line. Trygon will work ok for that too but he gets to stand there and get shot up before he gets to tear the target squad up... where with the mawlok you have more of a chance to hurt the target squad bad before they get to shoot. Either will provide you with cover for the rest of your army to advance, the food has to deal with the big scary monster right next to them or next turn it will eat em! Often leaving tervigon free for a round or two.

Get at least one tervigon and use it as a troop choice. Very fun to spawn more termagants... it will be a target so try to put it out of line of sight first turn then be aware that if it goes down it may take some termagants with it.

Just too much to go into right here but I like the army and even when I lose I still have fun with them. Been winning about 2/3 of the time but never won a tournament with them due mainly to mistakes I make like forgetting to move a brood ect...

[Slacker]

Hey guys, Thanks for the suggestions. Yes Slacker, The TL devourers on the tyrant was what I had read somewhere. I guess there is no model for that, you have to kit bash although It seems easy enough. Would making it flying be necessary? or could it just dakka from the ground like Anti Aircraft? I'm assuming it needs to fly otherwise every other model with devourers could shoot as well.


There are larger sized devouerers on the 'monstrous creature biomorphs' sprue that comes with the new hive tyrant kit or the canifex kit. Putting 2 sets of them on a tyrant gets you 12 twin-linked str 6 shots, so making him flying isn't completely necessary, but it helps against the tougher ones like the helldrake (FA SA 12 with a 5++) plus it gives you more mobility to possibly get behind it giving you better chance to glance (against RA 10) and flying monstrous creatures can choose skyfire increasing your number of hits against flyers.

[Blood Angel]

Well Alright!!! Thanks guys!! That clears everything up. I think I will probably go with at least one Tervigon as troop. I have 25 Termigaunts right now so that would be a good squad, Reconfigure my Warriors, Use the old Tyrant as the prime, For right now, Probably Doom in a spore, a crushing claws Carnifex with spore, a couple of Zoenthropes, 2 more biovores to make 3 total, 2 Hive Guard, and like 30 Hormigaunts and a pack of genestealers. I like the Mawlock with the ability to dig tunnels, and its less expensive. I may make two tyrants, one winged with T/L devourers and one regular with bone sword and lash whip and pop on arms for options in ranged weapons. Probably won't fit this into 2000 points (I haven't done the math yet, just getting ideas about the units I like. I may just not do raveners as I read that Warriors are probably a better deal and with FOC they are almost as fast. Have to see how that works out. I may proxy some Necron Wraiths as raveners to try out some builds, lol.

Anyway, Thanks for all the input! you guys were invaluable!!