Loganwing in 6th - 1850

[Chexmix282]

Hello fellow Loungers!

I have an upcoming 1850 tournament and have been trying to make my Loganwing army work. I can shoot most armies off the board, but Helldrakes and other flyers have been giving me a hard time... Which is why I have allied in a couple Vendettas!

Primary Detachment - Space Wolves

HQ
Logan Grimnar 275

Troops
5 Wolf Guard 135
-1 Terminator w/ Cyclone Missile Launcher

5 Wolf Guard 135
-1 Terminator w/ Cyclone Missile Launcher

5 Wolf Guard 135
-1 Terminator w/ Cyclone Missile Launcher

5 Wolf Guard 135
-1 Terminator w/ Cyclone Missile Launcher

Heavy Support
6 Long Fangs 215
-5 Lascannons

6 Long Fangs 140
-5 Missile Launchers

6 Long Fangs 140
-5 Missile Launchers

1,310

Allied Detachment - Imperial Guard

HQ
Company command Squad 90
-Autocannon, Astropath (so the Vendettas arrive on a 2+)

Troops
Infantry Platoon 190
Platoon Command Squad (they ride in a Vendetta)
-4 Meltaguns
2x Infantry Squad
-Autocannon

Fast Attack
2x Vendetta 260

540


Total: 1,850


I would like to also take a Skyshield Landing Pad to provide my Long Fangs/Wolf Guard a 4+ Inv and raised firing platform, but I am not sure where to get the 75 pts necessary. Should I remove one unit of Wolf Guard, or should I reduce the number of guns in each Long Fang Squad by 1?

The other option I've been considering is removing one Long Fang from each squad AND dropping a unit of wolf guard, then using the points for a Skyshield Landing Pad and 2 Griffon Mortars. This would drastically improve my anti-infantry capabilities but weaken my anti-armor slightly. Thoughts?

[Dave Mcturk]

surely you are only allowed one VD. ? or are they dedicated transport ?

[Chexmix282]

surely you are only allowed one VD. ? or are they dedicated transport ?

Vendettas may be taken in squads of 1-3 as a single Fast Attack choice. I have taken a single squadron of two.

[Caitsidhe]

Speaking as a person who use those Helldrakes, I might suggest the Astropath isn't necessarily helpful. You are going to come in a reliable way on 3+ anyway, but when fighting me you want your planes to come in second. Helpful tactics:

1. Place the Long Fangs in tall ruins and split them up as few per floor as possible. If terrain is scarce use the same ruin for multiple units side by side but split as I suggest through the floors. Thsi ensures the Baleflamer can't get more than a couple of Fangs per attack.

2. Try to go 2nd. If you win the toss this is easy. If you lose the toss, less canny people with Fliers will still opt to go first to try and get maximum damage in. If you are forced to go first against a canny CSM player, not having the 2+ would give you a better chance of getting lucky and having your fliers delayed and thus come in AFTER his Helldrakes. Do you see what I mean?

3. Flamers tend to be better for the Platoon Command Squad because of their unfortunate BS and there really isn't any good reason to stick them in the Vendetta. They can't give orders while up there. You will never get them where you want them to crack cans. The Skyshield is a good idea. Cut Melta Guns. Cut Autocannons. Cut misc weapons to do it. The only reason you bothered taking the IG in the first place was to get the Vendettas. There isn't any point in putting more points into them than you must.

*I have to be honest that I'm not sold on Terminator Spam being viable. You have less to fear from the Helldrakes in the first place since Baleflamers dont' ignore your 2+ armor, but you are going to suffer from volume of fire and how coordinated you come in.

[Chexmix282]

Speaking as a person who use those Helldrakes, I might suggest the Astropath isn't necessarily helpful. You are going to come in a reliable way on 3+ anyway, but when fighting me you want your planes to come in second. Helpful tactics:

1. Place the Long Fangs in tall ruins and split them up as few per floor as possible. If terrain is scarce use the same ruin for multiple units side by side but split as I suggest through the floors. Thsi ensures the Baleflamer can't get more than a couple of Fangs per attack.

2. Try to go 2nd. If you win the toss this is easy. If you lose the toss, less canny people with Fliers will still opt to go first to try and get maximum damage in. If you are forced to go first against a canny CSM player, not having the 2+ would give you a better chance of getting lucky and having your fliers delayed and thus come in AFTER his Helldrakes. Do you see what I mean?

3. Flamers tend to be better for the Platoon Command Squad because of their unfortunate BS and there really isn't any good reason to stick them in the Vendetta. They can't give orders while up there. You will never get them where you want them to crack cans. The Skyshield is a good idea. Cut Melta Guns. Cut Autocannons. Cut misc weapons to do it. The only reason you bothered taking the IG in the first place was to get the Vendettas. There isn't any point in putting more points into them than you must.

*I have to be honest that I'm not sold on Terminator Spam being viable. You have less to fear from the Helldrakes in the first place since Baleflamers dont' ignore your 2+ armor, but you are going to suffer from volume of fire and how coordinated you come in.

Thanks for the advice on model placement, that was quite helpful!

I will likely opt to go second if playing against Helldrakes but I really do want them in on a 2+. If there are no enemy flyers on the table then they can target other vehicles. Having 260 points in reserve past turn 2 just isn't my thing, I guess.

I think I may change the Infantry Platoon to a single unit of Veterans with 3 Meltaguns to ride in the vendetta. I have had good luck with dropping them mid-flight, and find them to ber a very useful tank hunting unit. This will also give me the points necessary for the Skyshield.

My army could hardly be considered "Terminator Spam", as there is only one Terminator in each unit of Wolf Guard. This is why I feel so vulnerable to Helldrakes!

[Power Klawz]

Yeah there's no way you'd geta squad of 5 termies for 135 points. The chepest terminators around are chaos termies, and even barebones you're looking at around 160 for 5 of them, imperial terminators start around 40 and go up.

[Caitsidhe]

Thanks for the advice on model placement, that was quite helpful!

I will likely opt to go second if playing against Helldrakes but I really do want them in on a 2+. If there are no enemy flyers on the table then they can target other vehicles. Having 260 points in reserve past turn 2 just isn't my thing, I guess.

I think I may change the Infantry Platoon to a single unit of Veterans with 3 Meltaguns to ride in the vendetta. I have had good luck with dropping them mid-flight, and find them to ber a very useful tank hunting unit. This will also give me the points necessary for the Skyshield.

My army could hardly be considered "Terminator Spam", as there is only one Terminator in each unit of Wolf Guard. This is why I feel so vulnerable to Helldrakes!

<laughs> I misread it. I'm at work, and just glanced real quick and assumed they were a bunch of Terminator units (my eyes focused on Terminator repeated... should have looked closer). Yeah... hrm. You NEED the Skyshield and you can't afford to have the Helldrakes going about with impunity.

Let me think about this for a bit more. My 1850 list would slaughter you badly. Let me brainstorm a bit.

[Caitsidhe]

I don't like your chances without serious retooling, at least not against CSM. You are a Footslogging army with minimum units except for your Air-to-Air killers and long range sit-and-shoot Fangs. At least when I was mistaken and assumed you had Terminators you had better than a Snowball's chance in hell. Normal shooting without Helldrakes could decimate you. With Helldrakes, well.... snowflake's chance in hell.

I use IG as one of my allied groups too, but I use them to bring in a Platoon w/Sabre systems, i.e. twin-linked Lascannons with Skyfire and Interceptor. THAT is what I would suggest for you (and take a single Vendetta too). I would reduce the number of units you have (at least against CSM) and put them in something that can ignore the Helldrake spam (although still vulnerable to Oblits)... something like a Land Raider.

Points are always an issue but you are really just hanging in the breeze. My non-Helldrake list has the volume of fire to take you apart in detail just by exercising target priority and discipline. I dont' want to sound negative. I'm just giving you an honest appraisal. Being a footslogger in the era of the gun is CRAZY.

[Caitsidhe]

Do you have any idea about your CSM opponent's general army composition besides the Helldrakes? I have a few ideas but they really depend on what else he runs.

[Chexmix282]

Most of the CSM players in my area are not very good, tbh. The last tournament I tabled everything he had EXCEPT his pair of Helldrakes. My biggest concern is a very skilled IG player that I have never beaten on the table. Nobody else I've played against can make that claim, lol.

I don't have any vehicles for my SW, as this really is a 5th ed list that I am trying to bring up to 6th ed. I do have a Rune Priest, 6 Thunderwolves, a pair of Terminator Lone Wolves with Chainfist/Storm Shield, 5 Wolf Scouts, 3 Basilisks, 3 Leman Russ tanks, and a third Vendetta. That's pretty much what I have to work with at this point, and the tournament is in three days so I likely cannot paint anything else.

I cannot take sabre systems, as FW is not allowed for this event.

I usually try to stay very close to my table edge and utilize my range advantage. I am strongly considering the addition of Basilisks or even Thunderwolves. Thoughts?

[Chexmix282]

Here's an interesting alternative:

Primary Detachment - Space Wolves

HQ
Logan Grimnar 275

Elites
5 Wolf Scouts 85
-Meltagun

Troops
5 Wolf Guard 135
-1 Terminator w/ Cyclone Missile Launcher

5 Wolf Guard 135
-1 Terminator w/ Cyclone Missile Launcher

5 Wolf Guard 135
-1 Terminator w/ Cyclone Missile Launcher, 1 has Combi-Melta & Meltabombs (joins the scouts)

Heavy Support
5 Long Fangs 175
-4 Lascannons

5 Long Fangs 115
-4 Missile Launchers

5 Long Fangs 115
-4 Missile Launchers

1,180

Allied Detachment - Imperial Guard

HQ
Company command Squad 70
-Lascannon

Troops
Veteran Squad 90
-Lascannon

Fast Attack
2x Vendetta 260

Heavy Support
2 Basilisks 250

670


Total: 1,850

This may be a step in the wrong direction, but I think I like it quite a bit more than the previous list. There's no way I can put together and paint a Skyshield before the tournament, so that idea's out.

Should I swap the Basilisks for Thunderwolves?

[Caitsidhe]

Well... I don't know that it is a step in the wrong direction. Only you know your META. Since it is a bit less cutthroat than what I'm used to this should work just fine. Just remember the tips I suggested about spreading your Long Fangs vertical in ruins to minimize Baleflamer damage to one unit. You might also consider a Fortress (I don't often suggest this) but with two Bunkers a walkway... and battlements... you could put all those Long Fangs spread out in different sections and minimize damage to them (only a D6) as they shoot at the birds. The whole point of them is to sit back and shoot. You would also gain the additional Skyfire weaponry.

[Chexmix282]

Well after this event I think I will finally get some transports for my army. With transports I won't have to take logan to have useful troops, as I find Grey hunters on foot rather lackluster. I may even change IG to my primary army to get more templates.

I will post my results of the event, and may even get some pictures up!

[Kyban]

Well... I don't know that it is a step in the wrong direction. Only you know your META. Since it is a bit less cutthroat than what I'm used to this should work just fine. Just remember the tips I suggested about spreading your Long Fangs vertical in ruins to minimize Baleflamer damage to one unit. You might also consider a Fortress (I don't often suggest this) but with two Bunkers a walkway... and battlements... you could put all those Long Fangs spread out in different sections and minimize damage to them (only a D6) as they shoot at the birds. The whole point of them is to sit back and shoot. You would also gain the additional Skyfire weaponry.
Don't flamer templates hit a level above and below as well? I thought they did but can't check right now.

[Shotgun Justice]

Don't flamer templates hit a level above and below as well? I thought they did but can't check right now.

Nope - template weapons only hit one floor (for determining number of models hit, not for wound allocation), but that floor can be either one up or one down from the model.