Dark Angels - 1850 List

[ForeverHero]

Good Afternoon,

Below is a list that I used this weekend in a campaign that our store is hosting. I played a imperial guard player and started out doing well but the game ended ina draw. So please review the list and let me know where you think that I could make changes to improve my game's outcome. I would like to be semi-competitive but I know that I won't be dominating tournaments until the dex is revised.

Note: Please forgive the lack of points information as I am posting this from the office and do not have access to my dex or armylists; this is being added from memory.

Dark Angels 4th Company (1850)

Company Master
- Power Weapon
- Combi-Melta
- Melta Bombs

TAC Squad
- Plasma Cannon
- Plasma Gun
- Vet. Sgt. - Power Fist, Bolt Pistol, Melta Bombs
- Razorback - Twin-Linked Lascannon, Pintle-Mounted Storm Bolter, Extra Armor

TAC Squad
- Lascannon
- Plasma Gun
- Vet. Sgt.- Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol, Melta Bombs
- Rhino - Extra Armor

TAC Squad
- Plasma Cannon
- Melta Gun
- Vet. Sgt. - Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol, Melta Bombs
- Razorback- Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter, Pintle-Mounted Storm Bolter, Extra Armor

Venerable Dreadnaught
- Twin-linked Lascannon
- Missile Launcher
- Extra Armor

Venerable Dreadnaught
- Assault Cannon
- Dread Close-Combat Weapon
- Heavy Flamer
- Extra Armor

Devastator Squad
- 4x Plasma Cannons
- Sgt. - Bolter

Predator ‘Annihilator’
- Twin-linked Lascannon
- Lascannon Sponsons
- Pintle-Mounted Storm Bolter
- Extra Armor

Total Points= 1840

[Chumbalaya]

Company Master
- Power Weapon
- Combi-Melta
- Melta Bombs


Not sure how he fits in here. You have no combat units and Sammael provides RoB plus an AV14 dakka machine.


TAC Squad
- Plasma Cannon
- Plasma Gun
- Vet. Sgt. - Power Fist, Bolt Pistol, Melta Bombs
- Razorback - Twin-Linked Lascannon, Pintle-Mounted Storm Bolter, Extra Armor

Plasma is so 4th ed, doesn't help much against armor or units in cover. Flamer and multi-melta/missile launcher ftw. Don't bother tricking out your Sergeants, you'll lose combats anyway. That Razor is way too expensive for an AV11 wet paper bag.


TAC Squad
- Lascannon
- Plasma Gun
- Vet. Sgt.- Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol, Melta Bombs
- Rhino - Extra Armor

Same as before. Extra Armor is not worth it on Rhinos/Razors.


TAC Squad
- Plasma Cannon
- Melta Gun
- Vet. Sgt. - Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol, Melta Bombs
- Razorback- Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter, Pintle-Mounted Storm Bolter, Extra Armor

Too pricey, not enough bite.


Venerable Dreadnaught
- Twin-linked Lascannon
- Missile Launcher
- Extra Armor

Too expensive. Extra Armor is pointless on a shooty dread. TLAC complement the missile launcher better (knocks out light AV).


Venerable Dreadnaught
- Assault Cannon
- Dread Close-Combat Weapon
- Heavy Flamer
- Extra Armor

Still pricey, I prefer a multi-melta to bust up armor.


Devastator Squad
- 4x Plasma Cannons
- Sgt. - Bolter

No way. Too expensive and not very good (not enough bodies, static, easy to get cover from).


Predator ‘Annihilator’
- Twin-linked Lascannon
- Lascannon Sponsons
- Pintle-Mounted Storm Bolter
- Extra Armor

Horrible. Lascannons don't bust armor like they used to, this variant is overpriced, immobile, and extra armor serves no purpose.

It's not very good at all, quite terrible really. You've sunk way too many points in upgrades and weapons that don't help all that much. You also are using the DA book without taking advantage of anything it has to offer. Using the Vanilla Codex would look no different and save you a ton of points. If you aren't fielding RW/DW, then use the vanilla book.

Lose the junk, focus your list, have a reason to use the DA book or go Vanilla.

[eagleboy7259]

Basically go Multi-Wing - Deathwing Terminators as troops, Ravenwing letting you use Teleport Homers, Belial, Sammael but only in a Land Speeder, & Interrogator Chaplains are all we have over them. Company Vets, Dreads with Multi-Melta, Plasma Cannon, etc for free, and are tanks are kind of a wash in many ways. Ex. we have the older versions of smoke launchers but or Predator Destructor is 10pts more than a similar vanilla one.

Thats not really to say that everything thats a little bit more expensive is completely worthless, after all the codex worked fine before the vanilla one came out with a better version of 90% of it.

[ForeverHero]

Well, I appreciate your comments and I think that I will create a list using the SM Codex and see what I can come up with. I prefer to a run a Battle Company vs. DW/RW list as that is what I mostly have painted/completed at this time.

You mentioned that I should not take Extra Armor (EA) on my Rhinos or Razorbacks but I’m a little confused about this. I thought we take EA to allow us to move them when they are shaken by an opponent. If we remove EA, then what is the strategy for Rhino’s or Razorbacks? Just sit for a turn or do you have the troops get out and shoot and scoot that turn?

Thx,

FH

[ForeverHero]

So I went home last night and created a Greenwing list using the SM Codex intsead of the DA Codex. Some items I was unable to change but I stopped by the store last night and picked up the Kantor and Sternguard models. I've included them in the list to allow me to have four scoring units vs. the previous three. Please review and tell me your thoughts on this updated list.

1850 Pts - Space Marines Roster

HQ: Chapter Master Pedro Kantor (1#, 175 pts)
1 Chapter Master Pedro Kantor @ 175 pts (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Iron Halo; Power Armour; Dorn's Arrow; Power Fist)

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 295 pts)
9 Tactical Squad @ 295 pts (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Plasmagun; Plasma Cannon; Razorback)
1 Sergeant (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Storm Bolter; Power Fist)
1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin Linked Lascannon)

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 255 pts)
9 Tactical Squad @ 255 pts (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Plasmagun; Lascannon; Rhino)
1 Sergeant (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Weapon; Plasma Pistol)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 250 pts)
9 Tactical Squad @ 250 pts (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Meltagun; Plasma Cannon; Razorback)
1 Sergeant (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Weapon; Plasma Pistol)
1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin Linked Heavy Bolter)

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (7#, 205 pts)
6 Sternguard Veteran Squad @ 205 pts (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Special Issue Ammunition; Bolt Pistol x6; Bolter x5; Meltagun x1)
1 Sergeant (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Special Issue Ammunition; Bolter; Power Fist)

Elite: Dreadnought (1#, 145 pts)
1 Dreadnought @ 145 pts (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin Linked Lascannon; Missile Launcher)

Elite: Dreadnought (2#, 175 pts)
1 Dreadnought @ 175 pts (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Extra Armor; Dreadnought CCW; Heavy Flamer; Assault Cannon; Drop Pod)
1 Drop Pod (Storm Bolter)

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 100 pts)
1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 100 pts (Multi-Melta x1; Assault Cannon x1)

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 100 pts)
1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 100 pts (Multi-Melta x1; Assault Cannon x1)

Heavy Support: Predator (1#, 145 pts)
1 Predator @ 145 pts (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Extra Armor; Twin Linked Lascannon; Heavy Bolter (each side))

Validation Report:
c-1. File Version: 1.04a For Bug Reports/www.ab40k.org; b-1. Roster Options: Cities of Death, Imperial Armour, Special Characters; a-1. Scenario: Normal Mission; 1. Chapter: Codex Chapter
Roster satisfies all enforced validation rules

Total Roster Cost: 1845

As always, I appreciate your comments.

Thx,

FH

[ForeverHero]

On other thing is that I tried to keep my list WYSIWYG based on the models that I have assembled at this time. I have started to assemble a couple of Multi-Melts models so that I can have them available for my TAC squads. Hopefully, this new list will be better received than my last and if you all agree then I will use it this weekend in aour next campain game.

As always, thanks for your feeedback in advance and I appreciate your comments and advice.

Thx,

FH

[Chumbalaya]

I don't see why you need Pedro here. You already have scoring units and stubborn hurts you considering how shooty your army is.

Don't give much gear to Tactical Sergeants. Powerfist maybe, combi-melta maybe, melta bombs maybe, but that's it. They aren't designed to get stuck in, keep them mobile and shooty so they can rapidly redeploy to seize objectives and support killier units.

Sternies should have combi-meltas over a regular melta so they keep their special ammo. A transport is necessary.

MM/AC is a poor combo considering that MM/HF is so much cheaper.

TLLC/HB is a poor Pred outfit, it lacks flexibility.

TLLC/ML on Dreads is eh, dual TLAC is cheaper and better.

Drop Podding is fun.

[Pi666]

NEVER go vanilla, for The Lion's sake!!!

After the rant:

Take off the lascannons of the razorbacks. They will be less an objective with heavy bolters, and you can use its transport to move your combat squad wherever you want to.

Just one Predator is giving an "easy" kill to your opponent, it's top one in the list of vehicles being shot with antitank stuff.

Same for the dreads, dropping just one is giving free buffet to the enemy melta. I'd probably use the pod with the sternguard and Kantor, to secure an objective.

The speeders... it depends in how are you going to use them, i mean, if they're hold in reserve or are deployed with the rest.

The rest is ok, except the fact you went vanilla... the Interrogators would have some questinos for you...

[Duke]

Hope you don't mind my two cents...

I agree that the hvy bolters on the pred are useless... one unit I have liked it just the TL las pred and no sponsons... it gives that cheap 'reach out and touch someone feeling,'

I would keep the dreads simple: MM and hvy flamer in a drop pod.

Think about putting in a librarian with gate of infinity and the power that grants a 5++ that makes them live a lot longer. One thing you could consider is (if you want that plasma feeling) a command squad with all plasma guns lead by a librarian with gate and 5++...nasty little anti-MEQ unit.

drop the TL las on one of the razorbacks and put the hvy bolters on.

I agree that MM/ HF is a better option for the speeders.

[ForeverHero]

My only concern is the potential lack of anti-tank weapons that I would have by removing the lascannon from the Razorback and dropping a Dreadnaught from the list. What would you guys recommend if I were to drop the second Dreadnaught? The Predator ‘Annihilator’ is there because I don’t have a Destructor variant at this time; ordered one today but it’ll be a week or so before it arrives.

As for the landspeeders, my intent is to hold them in reserve and use them to harass my opponents back field and possibly take out some artillery or units sitting on an objective. I’m going to be putting together some new models to replace my sergeants in the TAC squads so that I can optimize them.

Hopefully, this new list will be better this weekend during the second round of the campaign that we have going on.

Thx,

FH

[Duke]

If the speeders are hanging back then keep the A-cannon and drop the MM. If they are charging forward go with MM.

The reason I don't like the LAs cannon on the razorbacks is that they are too easy of a target, not only that but youll run into "shoot or scoot," a lot. The Hvy Bolters don't have that problem as much... What you could do is put a free ML or a cheap lascannon in your combat squad. This will give you that 'anti light armour,' feeling your looking for.

hope that helps a bit...

Duke

[ForeverHero]

So I tweaked the list a little bit again to make sure I kept everything WYSIWYG and played a couple of games with it on Saturday. The first was against a Chaos player and the list did very well and I won but he was having a ‘bad dice’ day. One squad of five Chosen with melta guns rolled all 1-2’s to hit while trying to take out my Drop Podded Dread… it was ugly and I felt really bad of for him. The game was a straight up Annihilation/Pitched Battle

The second game didn’t go well as it was a Planetstrike mission in the campaign and I had only played that once before and lost that game. I think that I might have faired better if it was a regular mission; just didn’t know enough to take advantage of the Planetstrike system. I’m looking forward to when we can move onto regular or Cities of Death missions later in the campaign.

Anyways, here is the list that I used this weekend and the dreadnaught/drop pod and landspeeders in the back field combo did really well in the first game. They took out a Defiler right after they landed and then took out the squad of Chosen the next turn. I was able to take out his Demon Prince, Sorcerer and a TAC squad by my third turn while minimizing my losses to only 3-4 marines.

1850 Pts - Space Marines Roster

HQ: Chapter Master Pedro Kantor (1#, 175 pts)
1 Chapter Master Pedro Kantor @ 175 pts (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Iron Halo; Power Armour; Dorn's Arrow; Power Fist)

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 295 pts)
9 Tactical Squad @ 295 pts (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Plasmagun; Plasma Cannon; Razorback)
1 Sergeant (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Storm Bolter; Power Fist)
1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin Linked Lascannon)

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 255 pts)
9 Tactical Squad @ 255 pts (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Plasmagun; Lascannon; Rhino)
1 Sergeant (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Weapon; Plasma Pistol)
1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 250 pts)
9 Tactical Squad @ 250 pts (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Meltagun; Plasma Cannon; Razorback)
1 Sergeant (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Weapon; Plasma Pistol)
1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin Linked Heavy Bolter)

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (6#, 185 pts)
5 Sternguard Veteran Squad @ 185 pts (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Special Issue Ammunition; Bolt Pistol x5; Bolter x3; Combi-Melta x2)
1 Sergeant (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Special Issue Ammunition; Bolter; Power Fist)

Elite: Dreadnought (1#, 145 pts)
1 Dreadnought @ 145 pts (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin Linked Lascannon; Missile Launcher)

Elite: Dreadnought (2#, 175 pts)
1 Dreadnought @ 175 pts (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Extra Armor; Dreadnought CCW; Heavy Flamer; Assault Cannon; Drop Pod)
1 Drop Pod (Storm Bolter)

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 100 pts)
1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 100 pts (Multi-Melta x1; Assault Cannon x1)

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 100 pts)
1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 100 pts (Multi-Melta x1; Assault Cannon x1)

Heavy Support: Predator (1#, 165 pts)
1 Predator @ 165 pts (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin Linked Lascannon; Lascannon (each side))

Total Roster Cost: 1845

Thanks for your advice and let me know what you guys think of the changes I made,

FH