cant beat nids

[Allen Broussard]

I've been outta the game for a few years and come back to see the now overpowered nids and its really discouraging.

Were running a planetery assault campaign using the tiles and it seems pointless to me since i cant beat the nid player.

Ive used 3 or 4 different army lists againgst him and theres just nothing my vanilla marines can do to stop 2 flying hive tyrants, a tervion, a carnifex, 4-6 hive guard, AND a trygon.


THATS JUST TOO MUCH TOUGHNESS 6 wounds. not to mention having to snap shot at the flying hive tyrants while they pour 12 strength 6 twinlinked shots down on my tac marines or sternguard every round each.





Nids are overpowered big time and i need help dealing with them.

[Wolfshade]

I know your pain, dealing with Tyranids, it took me 5 years to finally beat my brother-in-laws, but when I did I tabled him.
The biggest issue you face is that Space Marines do not fire that many high strength shots.
Missile launchers are very good for this, thoughare again only 1 shot, so either a krak missile for the high toughness larger xenos or a frag from the mob of smalls. But you'll need the flyrant to be in hover mode. Cyclone Missile laucnhers and Typhoon missile laucnhers are good, all the advantages of missile laucnhers but at Heavy 2 :)

There aren't that many good anti-flier options in Codex Space Marine, so you'll need to consider how to deal with them.
The two options at the moment are counter with yours a storm talon (or storm raven) or a Aegis defence line.

The defence line with either quad-gun or icarus cannon would serve you well, especially as the Nid tactic is to swamp your lines.

The Storm Talon (or a pair) I would probably choose over the Storm Raven as I doubt you'll need the transport capacity, "it can be equipped with an array of weapons including a twin-linked heavy bolter, a twin-linked assault cannon, a twin-linked lascannon, a typhoon missile launcher or a skyhammer missile launcher" so will give plenty of options for dealing with high strenght high T bugs.

You might be lucky with some rolls and get an objective that gives the sky fire special rule, or through divination.

The other thing to possibly consider is "Dakka preds", that is predators with auto cannons and heavy bolters so can pup out quite a few shots at higher strenght to take out big bugs.

However saying all this, the last flyrant I shot down lost it's last wound to a storm bolter shot.

[Tynskel]

Don't forget the Whirlwind Helios.

[Kevlarshark]

Massed bolter fire is your friend, there is nothing in the nid dex that does not have to worry about being gunned down with sheer weight of fire. Thunder hammer termies are a pain for nids to handle. Any av 12 or greater is also hard to take on outside of close combat. Thunder fire cannons are the bane of many a nid list too.

Nids really struggle with anti air, as all their guns (except the rupture cannon) are either blast or less than 24 range. So taking them with storm talons and the like is a good idea.

Consider using force weapons to id the less combat orientated bugs like the fex or the tervigon.

The flying creatures should really be knocked out of the air by bolters then laz cannoned or plasmaed to death. Remember you don't need to wound to force a check, merely hit. They only have a 3+ save,once grounded a devestator squad or predator should be the end of them.

[glottis]

I'm having quite a bit of trouble with 'nids too, using Dark Angels. My biggest problems are:

- As stated, bolters (especially with the banner) are pretty good for bringing them down, but rarely wound...and never wound if they roll Iron Arm, which by luck they _always_ seem to. It's really having multiple T7-9 creatures flying around that's a problem...T6 I can deal with.
- Doom of Malantai is pain for gun lines - he's easy enough to kill but you have to hit with (statistically) 3 missiles or lascannons to insta-kill him, and that's a lot of fire going on an 80pt model instead of the 4 other monstrous creatures that are approaching fast.
- 'Shadows' makes force weapons very risky.

Some stuff I've found to work quite well:
- Termies with a heavy flamer in a Land Raider Crusader or Redeemer are great MC hunters. You can assault right out of the tank, and then use it to protect you from nearby hordes that might threaten to counter. Against flyrants, same tactic but take storm shields to fend off the initial (I5) attacks, and have other stuff nearby to help ground it first.
- Devastator squads or scout snipers with a librarian (Divination powers & auspex) - the librarian can stay out of shadows range and buff the shooters. Snipers wound on 4+ so they're pretty nice against MCs. A techmarine to bolster their terrain helps too, and he can accompany the termies for some extra S8 hits if need be.

[Kevlarshark]

Sternguard with their poisoned or AP 3 ammo would probably be useful too.

Marines dont lack the tools to take on Tyranids. There are plenty of exploitable flaws in the Nid codex too.

Act less like heroic marines and more like guardsmen, hug cover (nids dont have assault grenades so hate opponents in cover) and blast away. Dont expect to see them fall like other armies under the weight of your bolters, concentrate on the synapse creatures and put them out of action one by one.

Make sure your opponent is testing for instinctive behaviour/synapse range, the list you described has 2 flying tyrants which I am assuming are used aggressively that leaves the tervigon providing synapse for the other bugs.

The Nids have weak ld out of synapse so are easy to break/pin or hurt with leadership base psi powers, shadow in the warp wont help creatures out of synapse range.

Dont be afraid of close combat... the big monsters look intimidating to fight but all but the tyrant and trygon are quite weak against a decent assault.

Armour, Nids struggle with AV13.

Everything in the Codex has wounds so poisoned weapons, or sniper works wonders.

Nids actual armour saves are poor with only the tyrant and t-fex having access to 2+ and only zonethropes having an invun... most guns that will reliably hurt T6 creatures ignore their armour entirely.

[YorkNecromancer]

Lots of Scouts with sniper rifles?

Poison really seems to be the best thing; it laughs in the face of Toughness. It's a shame you can't ally with Dark Eldar; Kabalite Trueborn with Splinter Carbines/Cannon would make a mockery of T6 models.

[DarkLink]

Sternguard (preferably in Drop Pods) and THSS Terminators to deal with the big bugs, and bolters for everything else. A Thunderfire Cannon or two will also clear out little bugs like nothing else. Some Devestators with missile launchers can hurt big and little bugs alike. Scouts with sniper rifles can put wounds on big bugs. And SMs have some fliers that can kill FMCs reasonably well. And use Rhinos/Drop Pods to corral them and block their movement. You've got some options.

[Allen Broussard]

I havent used stormtalons yet,but ive tried almost every other thing mentioned.

The sternguard are quite good at killing the nids, but he kills them right back the turn after i deploy them and they are too expensive for that to happen.

Hammernators also kill them, but can only do so one at a time, and he kills the rest of my army in the meantime.

Dakka preds, are nice in theory, but last time i took them, they only inflicted 4 wounds to a trygon and tervigon before they got popped.


Its really just the fact that anything i can bring that kills his stuff, costs more points and so i can only bring small amounts of it. first 2 turns i feel strong, but then everything falls to pieces due to him litterally rolling nonstop feel no pain rolls on the few wounds i do inflict.

[Wolfshade]

One tact, which I am sure you have probably already thought of, is to take out the synapse creatures

[Kevlarshark]

Lots of Scouts with sniper rifles?

Poison really seems to be the best thing; it laughs in the face of Toughness. It's a shame you can't ally with Dark Eldar; Kabalite Trueborn with Splinter Carbines/Cannon would make a mockery of T6 models.

Guard allies are an option though.
few hydras will soon knock the flyers out of the air and a guard platoon with lazcannon heavy weapons squads to finish them off. Bring it down orders combined with a heavy wep squad or special squad is a very unpleasant combo against nids. A 3x plasma gun veteran squad should reliably splat a 4x wound monstrous creature, when backed with the right orders.

Ratlings are a good choice for the sniper weapons too.

A punisher or Exterminator with Pask makes a horrible mess of nid monstrous creatures, but does not come cheap.

[Elsus]

If CC is inevitable, make sure you are in cover as nids has no frags..

I like using typhoons, it gives me the number of shots to knock of wounds of non flying MC's and the blast template for horde controls, not to mention the heavy bolter shots.

[Da Gargoyle]

Wouldn't a Landraider Crusader work well here. Banks of TL bolters, TL assault canon and a melta on top. All round 14 armour and a compliment of those THSS termies. Lots of points but see it from his point of view. It would be a fire magnet giving a devastator squad and snipers time to pick their targets.

[Wolfshade]

It is a terribly expensive option, that is worth 50 termagents

[Anggul]

Wouldn't a Landraider Crusader work well here. Banks of TL bolters, TL assault canon and a melta on top. All round 14 armour and a compliment of those THSS termies. Lots of points but see it from his point of view. It would be a fire magnet giving a devastator squad and snipers time to pick their targets.

The issue is that our Zoanthropes and Monstrous Creatures would love you to spend so many points on something we can take out with ease. As long as you can keep Zoanthropes out of Warp Lance range and MCs out of close combat with it then yeah, it can put out a load of great anti-bug firepower, but as soon as it carries out its assault vehicle role, it's probably going to go bye-bye.

[Tynskel]

isn't that why you put Thunder Hammer Terminators in there? You have them charge the Monsterous Creature while the vehicle dakka dakka the gaunts.