Getting into WH Fantasy with High Elves - What should I get?

[HAL9000]

So as the title states, I'm starting WH fantasy after about 8 years of playing 40k. I'm really drawn to the High Elves (almost started them a few years back) and now with their new book I figure now is probably a good time to get 'em!

A friend and I are splitting the Island of Blood to get started (and to get a mini rule book). I'm just wondering where I should go from there, should I get a second IoB? Should I get a battalion? I'm iffy on the strategy, but I've got a general knowledge of how the game works (I've played a few beginner games with people at the FLGS).

And I'm new to the forums, yay! Thanks in advance!

EDIT: Sorry if this is in the wrong area.

[Learn2Eel]

All good, it's in the right area mate :) Welcome!

Going off of Island of Blood, I would get a Battalion next to fill out your army. All of the units in that kit are quite useful - for the chariot (it can be built as a Tiranoc Chariot or a Lion Chariot) I would personally go with what you think looks cool, though certainly the Tiranoc Chariot is probably the better choice in competitive gameplay (not that it should matter when you are starting out). From there, I would look at buying the Prince and Noble double-kit, mostly to get your army a battle standard bearer - the choice of who goes on foot and who is mounted is purely up to you. A cool idea using the two would be to have the battle standard bearer mounted up with the Silver Helms - if you assemble them with the champion, musician and banner bearer and have them three models wide and three rows deep in formation, the battle standard bearer gets himself a fantastic bodyguard unit.

After that, you could really go anywhere; you will have the basics to field a decently sized force of High Elves, with some flavour sprinkled around. When you get the chance, have a look through the army book and even the main website to see what models and units you like most visually - from there, we can give you a run down of how to use them and what works best in certain applications. Phoenix Guard, for example, are the toughest unit High Elves can field, and are a long time favourite of mine. White Lions, on the other hand, are butchers without equal in the High Elf army. The Phoenixes and Dragons make great additions in larger games too, and also to give your army some scary monsters!

I hope that helps!

[HAL9000]

Thank you for your response! I've got the new book, and it is awesome. I'm thinking I might get two IoB's since it's such a great deal, even if I don't use the models. I really like the look of the High Elf Dragon Princes of Caledor. Is it viable to have a cavalry heavy army if I decided to field the 10 Cav from IoB, the 8 Cav from the battalion and 5 or so Dragon Princes of Caledor?

[spaceman91]

I did just as u are considering. IoB then the batt. I the added more sea guard and some dragon princes. Its not a bad army but just be aware that are pointy ears are very very very delicate. Glass hammers. That said i haven't seen the new book yet ( last time i pay extra on delivery)

[Learn2Eel]

Thank you for your response! I've got the new book, and it is awesome. I'm thinking I might get two IoB's since it's such a great deal, even if I don't use the models. I really like the look of the High Elf Dragon Princes of Caledor. Is it viable to have a cavalry heavy army if I decided to field the 10 Cav from IoB, the 8 Cav from the battalion and 5 or so Dragon Princes of Caledor?

It is viable, but it is a difficult army to play, as High Elf cavalry in particular only really hits hard if they charge, and they lack the models to break down larger units - as such, you need to be really good with your movement and tactics to win with such an army, as any bad move can lead to an entire unit getting swamped. If you want to go a Caledor army - very cool pick by the way! - I would definitely recommend also picking up one or two of the Dragon kits, though it depends on how big a game you and your mates are willing to play. If you intend on playing games of 1500-2000 points or less, then I would probably avoid the Dragon. Any larger though? Oh yes!

Some good advice I was given by my local gaming store (LGS) owner was to write up a range of "big" army lists to work towards in terms of models; 1500, 2000, 2500, 3000 and so on. At this time, 1000 would also be a good starting point. This can give you an idea also of what people you play with want to go against; the common points level in my area, for example, is 2000, but it may be different in your area.

[Learn2Eel]

I did just as u are considering. IoB then the batt. I the added more sea guard and some dragon princes. Its not a bad army but just be aware that are pointy ears are very very very delicate. Glass hammers. That said i haven't seen the new book yet ( last time i pay extra on delivery)

Yep, still basically glass hammers. However, they are tougher than they were, and there are more incentives to take larger units. That, and they can have heavy or light cavalry in Core and access to some of the strongest monsters you can find. Basically, they can be really tough through synergy - their native lore attribute boosts the ward save of a unit by one.

[Kirsten]

I did just as u are considering. IoB then the batt. I the added more sea guard and some dragon princes. Its not a bad army but just be aware that are pointy ears are very very very delicate. Glass hammers. That said i haven't seen the new book yet ( last time i pay extra on delivery)

lol, yeah, I ordered the book on express delivery and then a couple of bolt throwers on standard, bolt throwers have just arrived, book estimated tomorrow...

for myself I am hopefully getting three island of blood sets from various people, and am planning something along the lines of two sea guard units, two archer units, good sized sword master unit, two bolt throwers, then whatever else I can fill out with depending on seeing the new book. Personally I think a cavalry army would look really cool, reavers, silver helms, dragon princes, chariots, dragons, phoenix...

[Learn2Eel]

Personally, I'm still holding out that someone else in my LGS grabs Island of Blood so I can swap my Skaven for their High Elves! Other people have bought it but they have typically done so alongside friends/family or simply disappeared from the store. :(

[spaceman91]

lol, yeah, I ordered the book on express delivery and then a couple of bolt throwers on standard, bolt throwers have just arrived, book estimated tomorrow...

for myself I am hopefully getting three island of blood sets from various people, and am planning something along the lines of two sea guard units, two archer units, good sized sword master unit, two bolt throwers, then whatever else I can fill out with depending on seeing the new book. Personally I think a cavalry army would look really cool, reavers, silver helms, dragon princes, chariots, dragons, phoenix...

Omg yes. I want to see an all cav HE army.

[Mr Mystery]

If you're going with Cavalry heavy, consider matching them up with a Chariot for combined charges. Although Chariots are slightly limited, on account they can't march, they do provide the extra 'oomph' cavalry require to reliably win combat.

And in this edition? With elite, small number armies in particularl, be very aware of Steadfast! Consider this, and how to overcome it, as an integral part of your overarcing strategy. To my (not particularly subtle) mind, this means crafty ways of removing lynchpins like enemy Generals and BSBs'. Very much worth it, as the most typical 'sea of goons' armies depend on their characters for a reasonable Ld.

[HAL9000]

Great responses, thank you all! So my plan is a buddy and I are going to split two IoB's. Even though i may not use the models for $40-$50/box you can't get a better deal. Then I will probably get the battalion to open up some different troop options.

As far as special units, what are some of the pros and cons to the Dragon Princes, Phoenix Guard, White Lions, Sword Masters, Shadow Warriors, and Sisters of Avelorn?

I've heard shadow warriors are less than stellar. I really like the look of the Phoenix guard and I'll have a bunch of Sword masters from IoB. I'm just not sure which option I should take when it comes to the elite troop slot.

[Kirsten]

If you're going with Cavalry heavy, consider matching them up with a Chariot for combined charges. Although Chariots are slightly limited, on account they can't march, they do provide the extra 'oomph' cavalry require to reliably win combat.

And in this edition? With elite, small number armies in particularl, be very aware of Steadfast! Consider this, and how to overcome it, as an integral part of your overarcing strategy. To my (not particularly subtle) mind, this means crafty ways of removing lynchpins like enemy Generals and BSBs'. Very much worth it, as the most typical 'sea of goons' armies depend on their characters for a reasonable Ld.

yeah generally, though one of my regular opponents is a dwarf player, he flies in the face of all internet 'wisdom' on dwarf builds and usually has two minimal heroes, one of whom is a battle standard bearer, then as many units of infantry as he can in blocks five wide and six deep. combination of steadfast and high leadership, with a few hundred toughness 4 bodies is a real pain, and far superior to any list you typically see online that are all rune heavy for dwarfs.


Great responses, thank you all! So my plan is a buddy and I are going to split two IoB's. Even though i may not use the models for $40-$50/box you can't get a better deal. Then I will probably get the battalion to open up some different troop options.

As far as special units, what are some of the pros and cons to the Dragon Princes, Phoenix Guard, White Lions, Sword Masters, Shadow Warriors, and Sisters of Avelorn?

I've heard shadow warriors are less than stellar. I really like the look of the Phoenix guard and I'll have a bunch of Sword masters from IoB. I'm just not sure which option I should take when it comes to the elite troop slot.

sword masters are my favourite unit in all of fantasy to be honest, I love them. my army will always feature at least twenty of them. white lions have been a bit rubbish last few editions, but then I understand their armour save is a bit better this time round which is all they really needed. not sure about the others, my own copy of the army book is overdue, will get back to you tomorrow when it arrives all being well.

[spaceman91]

yeah generally, though one of my regular opponents is a dwarf player, he flies in the face of all internet 'wisdom' on dwarf builds and usually has two minimal heroes, one of whom is a battle standard bearer, then as many units of infantry as he can in blocks five wide and six deep. combination of steadfast and high leadership, with a few hundred toughness 4 bodies is a real pain, and far superior to any list you typically see online that are all rune heavy for dwarfs.



sword masters are my favourite unit in all of fantasy to be honest, I love them. my army will always feature at least twenty of them. white lions have been a bit rubbish last few editions, but then I understand their armour save is a bit better this time round which is all they really needed. not sure about the others, my own copy of the army book is overdue, will get back to you tomorrow when it arrives all being well.

Same on the book mine still hasn't shipped ( gunna kick up storm ) anywho i have always prefered the PG. Heavy armour + 4+ward. Makes for a pain in the backside unit.

[Kirsten]

yeah I just have a great weapon fetish

[HAL9000]

Same on the book mine still hasn't shipped ( gunna kick up storm ) anywho i have always prefered the PG. Heavy armour + 4+ward. Makes for a pain in the backside unit.
Por que no los dos? Ha. Is it not kosher to take two different special units? I know for me I usually find maintaining a theme works best in my 40k armies, would taking these two different special troops not make for a good army comp?

[Kirsten]

nothing wrong with taking different special choices at all, I think most people will do so, I am thinking sword masters and white lions personally, because I love the models

[Mr Mystery]

yeah generally, though one of my regular opponents is a dwarf player, he flies in the face of all internet 'wisdom' on dwarf builds and usually has two minimal heroes, one of whom is a battle standard bearer, then as many units of infantry as he can in blocks five wide and six deep. combination of steadfast and high leadership, with a few hundred toughness 4 bodies is a real pain, and far superior to any list you typically see online that are all rune heavy for dwarfs.



sword masters are my favourite unit in all of fantasy to be honest, I love them. my army will always feature at least twenty of them. white lions have been a bit rubbish last few editions, but then I understand their armour save is a bit better this time round which is all they really needed. not sure about the others, my own copy of the army book is overdue, will get back to you tomorrow when it arrives all being well.

Speaking of which.... Was it you that bagsed my IoB Elves? Found a couple of sprues, including 6 Swormasters, 2 Reavers, and some Sea Guard.

PM your address and I'll get them packaged off soon as.

[Kirsten]

hurray

my 3,000pt list is missile heavy to make a change from my fast moving, in your face combat chaos and ogre forces and I am going for sword masters and white lions. I think phoenix guard are probably the better choice, but they are my least favourite of the three main special infantry (still great mind). I am looking to field two units of sea guard and two of sisters, with a load of bolt throwers to mock those stunties, shoot down the quarrellers and warmachines and make him march his little legs to me

[Mr Mystery]

PG are a very odd Elven unit. I'm struggling to think of a matching bulwark unit. I think that's their main appeal. Extremely resilient unit with that Elven knack of being shockingly good in a punch up. Especially with being able to fight in a 4 rank Horde, which is extremely upsetting! Bung on a bit of Mind Razor, and frankly nothing comes close to them in sheer deadly killiness!

[Kirsten]

yeah, they are tugging at me for that reason, but I don't know

[Mr Mystery]

I hate to say it, but I think a unit of around 20 may just be compulsory... Just as they come, they are such a bargain. Expensive sure, but so damned good. Hordes? They'll mash them up good before they get hit back. Cavalry? Won't even dent them. Monstrous stuff? Bit dicier, but that's better than the usual 'charge by Horde of Ogre equivalents = Bugger, my poor unit!

[Kirsten]

they are great, but then white lions will strike first and kill dwarfs on 2s

[Mr Mystery]

Trouble is surviving Stunties will happily return that favour. That's not to say WL or SW aren't ace cakes! All three have their strengths. I just feel WL and SW are kind of interchangable for most (but not all) situations.

[Kirsten]

but by the time I have shot them, there wont be any surviving stunties once they get the chop

[Mr Mystery]

Pfffrt! T4 laughs at your girly bows!

But not Maiden Bows (or whatever they are) or Bolt Throwers I'll grant you!

[Kirsten]

30 S4 BS5 sister shots with four bolt throwers backing them up will do it... and 50 sea guard firing for good measure

[Mr Mystery]

S5? I though they were S4?

Should point out, I don't currently have the new book. That's next month!

[Kirsten]

ballistic skill 5 on the ladies, strength 4

[spaceman91]

ballistic skill 5 on the ladies, strength 4

wooooooo bs5. Dear god thats harsh.

[Kirsten]

not at all, it merely represents the obvious superiority of women :p

the female of the species is more deadly than the maaaaaale

[Mr Mystery]

And there was me thinking I was the only Space fan on here!

[spaceman91]

not at all, it merely represents the obvious superiority of women :p

the female of the species is more deadly than the maaaaaale

I completely agree. Send some pmsing ladies into afgan and it will all be sorted in a week;-)
EDIT: yes that was shamelessly stolen from Mr howard

[Kirsten]

I think they already have some.

yes it is a great song.

I do think the Sisters will be a compulsory choice for me though, getting back on topic. My other current fantasy armies are Chaos and Ogres. writing the list yesterday I put down the stuff I wanted, looked to see how many points I had left expecting a few hundred, and still had half the force to fill...

[Mr Mystery]

Any duff units in the new book?

[Kirsten]

I don't think so personally, shadow warriors still seem to be getting stick, but they are BS5 scouts so I think they are solid choices personally. I am not fussed about the tiranoc chariot personally, but I think that is mainly down to being as I said before a chaos and ogre player, so the impact hits aren't that impressive to me and the crew aren't very good :P white lion chariot could be handy, lions give it a nice post impact damage potential with four S5 attacks between them.

[Mr Mystery]

Just picked up the magic cards...... That is one useful Lore! Fiery Conversation is horrible against Hordes, especially if you can knock a pip off their toughness..... Goodbye massive horde of pretty much anyone!

[spaceman91]

Just got my book and looked straight at the guards. Your right BS5 Str 4 flaming and magical. I think i might just take some.:-)

[Kirsten]

yup, they are epic. I do like the magic, very handy, get a nice bit of BS increase on a bolt thrower... fiery convocation is good, shame it doesn't get stronger like it used to :P still awesome though

[Mr Mystery]

Yup. Not a single shonky spell in the Lore. The two Sigs are also useful. Drain Magic is very saucy in particular. And a massive worry for my Ogres! We don't like mass debuffing!

Arcane Unforging is probably the least universally useful, but still a nice one to have up your sleeve.

Tempest is very nice. Mass unit ganker for a very cheap cast, and the modifier is very groovy!

Walk Between Worlds? Yuck. Ickypoo! Very nice for super sneaky redeployment. Like Bolt Throwers....(though I hereby demand all instances of Bolt Thrower redeployment be accompanied by Zoidberg whooping! Spesh of its the boosted version.)

Hand of Glory. Ninjafy your units? Oh if I must!

Apotheosis? Very much what the Doctor ordered. And particularly nice as its not character only. Chariots, Bolt Throwers, Dragons, Griffons.... Possibly the best heal spell given its low casting value (a positively piffling 5+!)

However, still not attracted to the army. No fault of its design or book, just not very me!

[spaceman91]

Had time to read through the book. I honestly dont know how to run this army. Im not saying its bad because its not i just no idea how to get it to work.

[Kirsten]

most excited I have been reading a new book for ages, love it

[eldargal]

Ditto. Pretty much every choice seems viable and useful which makes picking an army quite difficult.:rolleyes:

[Mr Mystery]

Hallmark of a good Army Book!

I'm the same with my Ogres. There is nothing duff, useless or less preferable in that book! Gnoblar Trappers are a hoot, because you know Cavalry are going to end up causing themselves a humiliating amount of mischiefs on the charge, and the sole survivor will get a Bristlehog to the face, decide enoughs enough and sod off home!

[Chronowraith]

I'm going with a light council build using Alarielle and it's been working pretty good in the few games I've played. Alarielle receiving +8 to cast her light spells is amazing them much harder to dispel. I still want to try the sky cutter though... the bolt thrower has me curious.

[Mr Mystery]

Definitely a tasty addition. Mobile firepower is always useful, and its likely to keep cavalry in check, not to mention give medium sized monsters a harder time of it.

[Kirsten]

given how much I love the wood elf book, but fail at painting wood elves, I am thinking of doing an avelorn allied force for my high elves using the wood elf book and high elf models...

[TheCastigator]

After reading through the book a few times, I think that you need to build a list to take as much advantage of Martial Prowess as you can. The other thing is that this army is totally unforgiving and will horrifically punish mistakes. I personally think that to be most points efficient this army should mostly be run MSU.

I do have a question. Does any one else feel like their lord choices are too clear cut? The Loremaster and Archmage are so good relative to what you get with everyone else. I feel like a combat lord isn't worth it to give up the the boosing ability that these two can give you. You have to have a caster with high magic to give ward saves, and the LMoH to buff/hex combats with the signature spells. They are just too good to pass up.

The other thing is this army is the king of killing chaff. The flamespyre can absolutely devastate units like slaves, zombies, skeletons, knoblars, etc. It's not great by itself in combat but being able to rear charge to help out a combat is a good option. Add in some semi reliable shooting, core cavalry and units of chariots you should be able to clear the field quickly and better pick your fights.

[TheCastigator]

Sorry for the double post, I realize I didn't really answer the question.

I definitely think that this army lives and dies with its special choices. I think a 20-30 man unit of phoenix guard is essential for the survivability it provides. A small unit around of 18-21 white lions is a great choice. I think then supplementing them with chariots or Dragon princes depdning on what you want to do. I think one of each phoenix is a good call, the ice one to support combat and the flame to kill chaff/tarpits. If you only go one, I would take the flamespyre, to prevent you from getting redirected and blocked. Great eagles are excellent redirects/flankers. I think you can take whatever you want for core, though I personally would avoid taking shooting units. The army does have seemingly have a lot of options, but the archmage and loremaster are too good to not take.

[Mr Mystery]

Pooping fire is cool!