Artificer Armor

[lobo60]

Ok guys, question on this. what are the benefits of artificer armor besides the obvious +2 armor save? Does it really make power weapons bounce off and they still get their 2+save against it? does it have an Invuln save?

[Wolfshade]

Most power weapons are now AP3, so you'll still get your armour save (2+) (there are exceptions which are AP2 and perhaps even AP1).
No invulnerable save, unlike the Terminator Armour which has 5++.

[Shas'O Alohcry]

Artificer armour gives the 2+ and most power weapons being AP3 means you still get your armour save as stated.

It doesn't give you an invulnerable save but lost models with artificer or the option to buy it have a 4+ save from Iron Halos or Rosarius' (the exceptions being Sanguinary Guard and Techmarines that I can think of)

So the benefits of artificer armour over terminator armour are this:

Can still ride in Rhinos/only counts as one model for transport
Can still take a jump pack or bike for if you wan them to join such squads
Cheaper base cost
And as you have a 4+ invul save the terminator armours invul is obsolete anyway
Can still take a pistol for +1 attack in combat and have shooting ability (if only mediocre)

[Power Klawz]

Yeah the confusion might be due to the way power weapons worked in the previous edition. They used to slice through ALL armor, and only invulnerable saves could be taken against them. With the new edition artificer armor received a significant "buff" due to that fact that melee weapons now have an AP value, and AP2 became increasingly scarce for hand to hand combat, especially AP2 that can strike at initiative as the lion's share of AP2 melee weapons are also unwieldy, meaning you get a chance to chop the wielder up before he swings.

So now instead of having a blanket rule for all power weapons, they have individual profiles. Power swords, axes, mauls and lances (which are new for this edition) all have their own individual weapon profiles and AP values. Only power axes are AP2, and they are unwieldy into the bargain.

The benefits of artificer armor versus terminator have been recounted above, terminator armor gets you relentless which is pretty lackluster for character types since they very rarely tote around heavy weapons. It comes with a 5++ built in but generally speaking you're not getting much of a discount for that in the points cost. Generally artificer+Iron Halo only comes out around 5 points more expensive than terminator armor, and its well worth it unless you have the option of taking a storm shield with that termy armor... which off the top of my head I can't recall if any characters can take storm shields. Probably, just can't remember.

(Oh and you can still make a sweeping advance when wearing artificer armor, which can be a very good thing dependent on circumstance. If I'm remembering correctly terminator armor makes it so you cannot make a sweeping advance.)

[Demonus]

Im really sad that CSM dont have an option for Artificier armor (or its equivalent) I have a cool jump pack lord with lightning claws that would totally rock that.

[Aegwymourn]

edited missed a bit of power klaw's post

[Power Klawz]

Im really sad that CSM dont have an option for Artificier armor (or its equivalent) I have a cool jump pack lord with lightning claws that would totally rock that.

Technically they do have an equivalent, its just not readily available. Fleshmetal provides a 2+ save and can be found on obliterators, their close combat cousins the mutilators and Warpsmiths. It would have been great as an option for Lords and Sorcerers but I suppose it didn't make a whole lot of sense thematically.

Also imagining a daemon prince with a 2+ scares me.

[phreakachu]

a DP with a 2+ would have been brokem. i play solely CSM (these days) and id feel like an a$$ taking such a combo. even a lord or
Sorc with all the benefits of Artificer armor would have been OP. as it sits, i can give a Sorc 2+/3+ armor/invuln with the right wargear, and the fact that hes not as punchy as a Lord is the only thing that balances that out.

[Magpie]

No invulnerable save, unlike the Terminator Armour which has 5++.

There is often an Iron Halo with Artificer armour which gives a 4+ Invul tho, so you end up only missing out on the Deep Strike ability.

[Wolfshade]

There is often an Iron Halo with Artificer armour which gives a 4+ Invul tho, so you end up only missing out on the Deep Strike ability.

Depends what you mean by "often". Sanguinary Guard, by far my most numerous models in artificer armour do not have iron halos, they do have death masks through...

But the question was about Artificier Armour and not Aritificer Armour and other wargear options, otherwise you could say Aritificer Armour + Storm Sheild + Jump Pack is equivalent to terminator armour

[Magpie]

Depends what you mean by "often". Sanguinary Guard, by far my most numerous models in artificer armour do not have iron halos, they do have death masks through...

Yeh scratch that, most things in MY army (GK) in Artificer Armour get an Iron halo, I thought that SM were the same. Just checked and they ain't

[Wolfshade]

But it does make a better combo than terminator armour, plus you can drop pod it

[Magpie]

But it does make a better combo than terminator armour, plus you can drop pod it

You can put Termie Armour in a Drop Pod can't you?

[Wolfshade]

You can put Termie Armour in a Drop Pod can't you?

I thought it was only space wolves that could.

Hmm, yeah you can, I am getting confused, it is that normally terminator squads do not have the option of taking DPs as Dedicated Transport. Can't fit in Rhino chasis and counts-as 2 elsewise.

[Shas'O Alohcry]

I prefer Artificer Armour over terminator armour (even on models without an invul) because of the ability to ride in any transport, and the option of combining it with many more wargear options. Plus it is cheaper, 5pts doesn't seem alot but its better than nothing (or has Artificer gone up from 20pts?)

[Chris*ta]

unless you have the option of taking a storm shield with that termy armor... which off the top of my head I can't recall if any characters can take storm shields. Probably, just can't remember.

In C:SM, Librarians can get a Storm Shield if they wear Terminator Armour. So can Captains/Chapter Masters, but they can also take Storm Shields with Power/Artificer Armour.