Void shields, what hits what?

[acuk]

Hi,we have just started to use a titan in our apoc games and i have been looking through the apoc book and can't find a straight answer, when shooting at a titan with shields with say, a dev squad with2 missile launchers and 2 las cannon's, what hits what? Who decides what weapons to roll for first? obviously the shooter wants any shots on the hull to be the las and the defender wants the missiles, the only thing like it is wound allocation leaving it in the hands of the defender. What have you found to work best for both sides?

[AirHorse]

Interesting point, but I feel that since firing is simultaneous then if there is even a single void shield up then you should be hitting the void shield with all of that units firepower. It isnt that clear though, but seems a bit cheeky to be firing a single units weapons seperately so you can see if you get to use your lascannons against its tougher main armour.

[Gotthammer]

An article on the website (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=&pIndex=3&aId=12100003&start=4) mentions "Generally speaking, you'll want your Shadowsword to deal with enemy super-heavy vehicles. Stompas, Skullhammas and even enemy Titans are all vulnerable to it. Use your vehicle's lascannons, and the supporting fire of friendly units, to bring down any void shields that your target might have, before hammering it into submission with the volcano cannon."

So it seems the intention was that void shields take hits until they're knocked down, then other hits go through. With a superheavy you just have to declare what system is targeting what, but are fired seperately, so it seems fine to me. Infantry I'd be happy with doing like that too.

[Cryl]

An article on the website (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=&pIndex=3&aId=12100003&start=4) mentions "Generally speaking, you'll want your Shadowsword to deal with enemy super-heavy vehicles. Stompas, Skullhammas and even enemy Titans are all vulnerable to it. Use your vehicle's lascannons, and the supporting fire of friendly units, to bring down any void shields that your target might have, before hammering it into submission with the volcano cannon."

So it seems the intention was that void shields take hits until they're knocked down, then other hits go through. With a superheavy you just have to declare what system is targeting what, but are fired seperately, so it seems fine to me. Infantry I'd be happy with doing like that too.

Isn't that different to using a single Dev squad and expecting half the shots to down the shields and the others to hit the armour? A superheavy effectively fires it's weapons seperately, each one can be targetted differently whereas a dev squad has to fire all at once.

I've always played it that a squad fires at once and so all shots either hit the shields or not, some don't go through.

[acuk]

i was just using a dev squad as an example, but although a super heavy can target more than one unit i believe (although i cant remember where i read it) that you say what all the weapons are shooting at before rolling to hit for any, and if you are shooting 1 unit with more than 1 gun they are resolved at once, that's how i always play with my baneblade, but that could be old forgeworld rules. My normal gaming partner and i have come up with 3 or 4 ways from extra shots after the voids being discounted, to resoling 1 at a time, we cant see a clear intention in any rules, games workshop articles not included as i hadn't seen that one.

[Old_Paladin]

I think this is a very good question.
I've thought about this a bit after I first saw it (but didn't post, as I had no clue which could be a reasonable answer).

However, I think that the owner of the titan should get the pick which weapons hit what defence. Now, hear me out.

Like you've already said, there is already a rule that supports a similar idea; namely, complex squads. I get to pick what wound does where. If I have 2 marines in artifacer armour and two in power armour, and I'm hit by 2 lascannons and two krak missiles; then I can lose two normal marines outright to las, and take both my 2+ saves against the krak. Even normal model removal, I always get to remove the loss I want, not my opponent (unless there is a special rule).

There is really no rules anywhere that support the attaker getting to pick where he wants the damage applied.

[Gotthammer]

Paladin, the issue is that Vshields stay up until something penetrates them, so theoretically you could fire a dozen lascannons at one and not knock it down.

Following your example it's like your squad always taking hits on the bolter guys until they die, only then do you put wounds on the artificer armour guys.

The way I've always played it (and I have titans myself) is that any hit is taken initially on the Vshields until they are gone, and then through to the armour. This could be a subconcious thing from RT/2nd ed style shooting.
But in the spirit of Apocalypse as a massive explosion-fest I'm happy with letting any attacking unit, (infanty, vehicle or superheavy) allocating the order in which they attempt to make the armour penetration rolls, but it's a very grey area to be sure.

[AirHorse]

acuk that must be old forgeworld rules, for apocalypse it simply says you can shoot each weapon at different targets and can fire all weapons regardless of speed.

I think of void shields like this effectively, its like having a baricade in the way except this barricade follows you around and doesnt get in your way :D. If you shoot a bunch of shots in one salvo at the barricade then they all hit the barricade, even if it would only have required one shot to smash it. Once the barricade is gone though you can shoot at whats behind it.

This also seems to make sense with the rules as it says hits scored will instead go against the powerfield(or void shield) and since hits are all resolved first before rolls to penetrate all hits must hit the shields.