Still no love for Pathfinders

[Panxer]

I still have no love for pathfinders. Here's why...

What they do for the points and FO slots they occupy. There is only one role that I can see pathfinders occupying, and that's light armor hunting. With either rail rifles or ion rifles, you still can only field 3 per team, and any additional markerlights can be filled by different units for cheaper.

This is how I worked it, I used Battlescribe and did a points comparison

1. Pathfinders: Base 44pts, 4 pathfinders w/ markerlights and pulse carbines, photon grenades
Upgrades: Shas'Ui 21pts, x3 Ion rifles 63 pts, x3 Rail rifles 78 pts, Grav inhibitor drone 15 pts
Total: 147pts

2. Tetra Markerlight Speeder: Base 55pts (x2), 2 fast open topped skimmer, dis pod, heavy 4 markerlights at BS3
Upgrades: Blacksun filter(x2) 5 pts
Total:110 pts

3. Sniper Drone Team: x2 Marksmen + 6 Sniper Drones, stealth, (x2) BS5 Markerlights, (x6) Longshot Pulse Rifles at 48" rapid fire, precise shot, rending
Upgrades: None
Total: 116 pts

Optional supplement: Cadre Fireblade, Pulse rifle, Markerlight, Split fire, Volley fire, and can join units (great for sniper teams)

So take this just as an observation, and for the points, you could plaster the field with fast mobile markerlights, vs the more static snapfire only marker unit, or if you're going to use rail or ion rifles, there are easier ways to fill that battlefield role and for less points for more shots...

Just saying.

[ElectricPaladin]

1. Pathfinders: Base 44pts, 4 pathfinders w/ markerlights and pulse carbines, photon grenades
Upgrades: Shas'Ui 21pts, x3 Ion rifles 63 pts, x3 Rail rifles 78 pts, Grav inhibitor drone 15 pts
Total: 147pts


First of all, your data here is slightly weird. A single unit can take three ion rifles or three rail rifles, not both.

Secondly, I maintain - and I think we've had this conversation before - that you don't give rail/ion rifles to the same pathfinder team that you beef up to large numbers and use as markerlights. Rion rifles belong in small to medium sized pathfinder squads, in devilfishes, with recon drones. You use this as a (relatively) disposable unit. They help you deliver tasty deep striking and outflanking elements to exactly where you want them, while using their special weapons to mop up whatever your crisis suits/kroot squad/stealth suits/whatever doesn't manage to kill. And if your hammer is a battlesuit, their devilfish is convenient cover for the battlesuits to leap behind.

Therefore, what you're really looking at is this:

Pathfinder Marker Squad
• 4 Pathfinders w/Markerlights & Pulse Carbines, Shas'ui Upgrade, Grav-Inhibitor Drone = 70 points.

That's four markerlights for less than the cost of a tetra or sniper team (I'm counting two BS5 markerlights as equivalent to four BS 3 markerlights).

You see, cheapness is the real magic of pathfinders now. For another 44 points (bringing the unit to roughly the cost of a single tetra), I can field eight markerlights. That's the equivalent of two tetras. In other words, pathfinders are your bargain basement markerlights. You get a ton of them, you scout move them into centrally located cover, and you use it to deny your opponent the entire freaking middle of the board.

That said, assuming you're playing at ~1500 points or more, you don't leave it at that. You add a second source of markerlights, preferably something tougher and more mobile (like, say, a pair of tetras...). Your "big" marker team is board denial, laying the markdown on anything ambitious enough to show its face. Your smaller, but more effective, marker team scoots around the board edge, helping you chase important targets out into the kill zone.

[Nabterayl]

For another 44 points (bringing the unit to roughly the cost of a single tetra), I can field eight markerlights.
88 points is not "roughly the cost" of a 50-point model in my opinion.

I guess I kind of disagree with both of you. I think the relevant comparison is 44 points for a pathfinder marker squad with no upgrades (4 BS3 markerlights on a T3 W1 Sv5+ infantry platform) or 50 points for a single Tetra with no upgrades (4 BS3 markerlights on a 10/10/10 open-topped skimmer disruption pod platform).

The points per markerlight hit are close enough between the two unit types, I think, that which you prefer comes down to the ancillary benefits. The tetras are more maneuverable and have a little bit of firepower without increasing their cost or sacrificing markerlights. The pathfinders are infantry (which you may or may not consider more survivable) and have more extras you can pile on.

Personally, when it comes to a source of markerlights only, I'll take 25 points per markerlight hit on a skimmer with a permanent 4+ over 2 points per markerlight hit on infantry. But that's just my opinion.

[Panxer]

Yeah I forgot to put (or) in the equation.

I still hold that you can do MUCH better with Tetras.

8 stock pathfinders with a Shas'Ui (+blacksun filter) and a grav drone comes to 114pts

2 Tetras w/ blacksun filter upgrade (comes stock with disruption pod) *8 marker shots on a fast platform w/ a 4+ jink save, 110 pts

Same amount of marker shots, PF's 114 pts, Tetras 110pts

So a 4 point difference; but what do you get with each?

Tetras: 12" movement and firing 8 shots @BS4, 4+ cover save (dispod), TL pulse rifle, blacksun filter, marker beacon (aids outflank units), and open topped (which could be bad)

Pathfinders (w/ the above profile): Scout, 6" movement with snapfire only markerlights, grav drone (-D3" to charge range), possibility of failing leadership or pinning, but has more wounds than the Tetra has hull pts.

So the only real difference is 4pts and personal preference. I prefer my marker units to be highly mobile, Pathfinders aren't that.