BoLS Bailing on Faeit212

[kriswithak]

Anyone else actually see the correlation between BoLS down and Faeit212 being permanently closed?
BoLS has featured plenty of his content, in fact he was a contributor to this blog.
There was no error, BoLS was down while his account was removed. (Notice the stuff he provided is still published)

BoLS provides coverage for Games Workshop, and Games Workshop didn't want that to stop.
So they close Faeit212 and give BoLS the opportunity to distance themselves.

Pretty sad that one of the premium suppliers of 40k information on the net sold out a major contributor so quickly.
And without even letting people know what is going on.

Natfka obviously didn't make the copies himself as the allegations claimed, and whether or not copying out small amounts of GWS rules would be enough to really warrant a DMCA notice comes down to the amount of information being provided.
If it comes from a third person (rumour) source rather than straight out of a publication it's even more dubious.

Good example of how stupid the laws are these days, just lucky most companies see the benefits people like Natfka provide and the value they add to the products and organisations.

[DarkLink]

So when Bigred says this:


UPDATE:

We are back up and running - full steam ahead! We are working with google to determine exactly what occurred over the last 24 hours with the BoLS frontpage, but I would like to clear up a couple of things for the record:

1) BoLS was never targeted by any DMCA, IP, or any other violation notices. While other 3rd party sites on blogger may or may not have been targeted by Games Workshop and/or Google, BoLS never was.

2) We take our security and availability seriously. Steps are being taken to prevent such an occurrence from ever happening again. BoLS job is to provide you with wargaming news, opinion, and entertainment day in and day out - and we will do exactly that.

On a personal note, I would like to thank each and every one of you who showed up during the frontpage outage and got to see and explore the BoLS Lounge. We are very proud of our great wargaming forum community and hope many of you return.

Look for regular posts, columns and commenting as usual on the frontpage as of now.

Best regards and my deepest thanks,

-Larry Vela

Obviously it means he woke up with his favorite horse's head next to him, courtesy GW:rolleyes:.




Before everyone goes overboard with conspiracy theories, I'll point out that other sites that used google blogger went down at the same time as BoLS, and that there are plenty of other warhammer sites that linked to faeit's blog that didn't go down.

[daboarder]

What are you smokin' OP?


Cause I'll take some!

in all seriousness, if GW had a problem with BoLs and Faeit they are not going to talk to either of them, they like to ignore the fanbase when they can. (see bloodbowl)

[White Tiger88]

So when Bigred says this:



Obviously it means he woke up with his favorite horse's head next to him, courtesy GW:rolleyes:.




Before everyone goes overboard with conspiracy theories, I'll point out that other sites that used google blogger went down at the same time as BoLS, and that there are plenty of other warhammer sites that linked to faeit's blog that didn't go down.

Don't worry next week anyone who complained about finecast will be waking up with the horse head and an announcement that all plastic models are being "Redesigned for maximum appeal" to finecast :P

[jgebi]

honestly if they went all finecast it might be better as they would be forced to make really good casts

[OrksOrksOrks]

What are you smokin' OP?


Cause I'll take some!

in all seriousness, if GW had a problem with BoLs and Faeit they are not going to talk to either of them, they like to ignore the fanbase when they can. (see bloodbowl)

They're not "ignoring the fanbase" with Blood Bowl, the way blood bowl is structured means its hard for them to keep making money on it, once you've bought your team, you don't really have to buy much else, great for the player, not great for when they want to turn a profit. If they can find a way to make it profitable, of course they'd start it up again and with the last 2 limited edition Boxed Games, they have worked out a way

[Mr Mystery]

They're not "ignoring the fanbase" with Blood Bowl, the way blood bowl is structured means its hard for them to keep making money on it, once you've bought your team, you don't really have to buy much else, great for the player, not great for when they want to turn a profit. If they can find a way to make it profitable, of course they'd start it up again and with the last 2 limited edition Boxed Games, they have worked out a way

I very much suspect someone has procured a license to the specialist games. They're popular enough to make a profit, rather than run at a loss, but when you're a big fish, you want maximum profit, rather than 'cottage industry' profits. Bloodbowl, Epic et al are frankly crying out to be licensed off, along with the moulds, to someone who wants to sell games and is happy with a modest profit.....

No insider info here folks. Just idle speculation, and a gut feeling.

[Desaster]

Although I know just as much as you do, I assume that BoLS got bagged because Blogger/Google shut down all blogs on which Faeit had writing rights.

I don't think this is any kind of conspiracy, blogger just doesn"t care about the damage they do and as we see, they are willing to set things right again if you can prove they made a mistake.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Before everyone goes overboard with conspiracy theories

Too late!

It doesn't help that the owner of this site, while he did point out in the frontpage post that there wasn't actually any evidence as yet of GW doing anything in re: BOLS, was also more than happy to write and post a bunch of things in this a-here forum insinuating that Big Bad GW had struck again and that you should shun them. They're the new TSR! Their strategy is backfiring!

What strategy? You just said there's no evidence that they were involved (as yet). Which one is it? You can't have it both ways.

And I know this is emotive, having your website spiked sucks, and I agree that you've got a right to be as mad as hell if this is really what happened. But you can't take the high ground and tell people there's no evidence (as yet) that you were spiked by GW *and* at the same time try and whip up your readership against them by insinuating that they did. If it comes out that GW had no involvement except to send a memo to Google, who ****ed up and hit a lot of non-related sites with a clumsy spike of one thing, then even if you say "sorry, it wasn't GW!" then you've already planted the seed in people's minds that they did.

If you're the owner of a big and well-regarded News Site, that does mean you've got a certain amount of responsibility to not just spread innuendo and insinuation when the facts are not actually clear. Yes, yes, "suspicious timing". This isn't actually evidence of malfeasance. When this is all cleared up, maybe then we can talk about whether GW's legal department went too far.

[Mr Mystery]

Too late!

It doesn't help that the owner of this site, while he did point out in the frontpage post that there wasn't actually any evidence as yet of GW doing anything in re: BOLS, was also more than happy to write and post a bunch of things in this a-here forum insinuating that Big Bad GW had struck again and that you should shun them. They're the new TSR! Their strategy is backfiring!

What strategy? You just said there's no evidence that they were involved (as yet). Which one is it? You can't have it both ways.

And I know this is emotive, having your website spiked sucks, and I agree that you've got a right to be as mad as hell if this is really what happened. But you can't take the high ground and tell people there's no evidence (as yet) that you were spiked by GW *and* at the same time try and whip up your readership against them by insinuating that they did. If it comes out that GW had no involvement except to send a memo to Google, who ****ed up and hit a lot of non-related sites with a clumsy spike of one thing, then even if you say "sorry, it wasn't GW!" then you've already planted the seed in people's minds that they did.

If you're the owner of a big and well-regarded News Site, that does mean you've got a certain amount of responsibility to not just spread innuendo and insinuation when the facts are not actually clear.

Unless you're Fox News. Who indeed thrive on innuendo and insinuation due to an acute allergy to facts :p

[Cap'nSmurfs]

It's debatable whether Faux News is actually a news source, or news-themed light entertainment with a faint sound of jackboots in the background. ;)

[Mr Mystery]

Apparently, they have a note from their Mother (a Judge) to say they don't actually have to tell the truth, and have a right to just make stuff up....

Man I can't wait until Murdoch pops his clogs! Vile man.

[OrksOrksOrks]

Murdoch is just the worlds biggest troll, he's been doing it since the 60s, when he dies, he'll have the last Lulz

[lattd]

Can i please just clarify the law on this issue as the arm chair lawyers who keep spouting that its news so they have a right to comment are so wrong it urks me very much.

Faeit posted pictures of a magazine that had yet to be published. As the product had yet to be published there cannot be a legal defence of fair comment or reporting on news. The law will judge that the product has been received in questionable circumstances. As such GW where well within their right to issue C&D order, as GW had sent these previous then asking the host site to prevent any further publications because once it comes to the notice of the host website they have a responsibility to remove the item or face legal actions themselves.

All website who discuss a product once it has been sold then feel free to comment, which is why i think tabletop have made an over reaction. Now its a shame that Faeit has gone down as i loved the rumours. However continuing to act in a certain manner after C&D orders have gone out was stupid.

[Mr Mystery]

Question on a grey area here.....

So, Feait isn't subject to 'Fair Use'. That much is established, on account the pictures had not been released to the public. No issues here, nice and cut and dry.

But....BoLs then linked to the pics, as did other sites and so on down the chain. Does that come under fair use? Because although not through the appropriate chain, the images and that are already in public? (shying away from public domain, because I understand that's quite a specific legal terminology, and I don't want to confuse things)

[OrksOrksOrks]

Natfka had repeatedily posted scans of WD and got DMCAs, GW were within their rights to issue the DMCA to have these removed, Bloggers ToS state that they can and will shut down blogs that infringed protected works, as Natfka had repeatidly got DMCAs they decided to close his blog, this is what caused this, he could have decided not to publish the scans as he knew that GW would react if he did, and he probably knew that blogger would consider ending his blog if they got more DMCAs. Its a shame,it was a great blog but he made a bad call posting the scans.

BoLS wasn't removed, it seems to have been a hiccup that has now been rectified, if it was related to Natfka, its fixed now, but it does seem like its just a co-incidence.

[DeadPanda]

I thought Red said it was purely coincidental and other blogger sites unrelated to wargaming were having similar issues.

[Mr Mystery]

I was literally checking when something counts as being in the public, and who can get into trouble for posting stuff from a leaking source.

[Defenestratus]

The theory is that every blogger site where Natfka had author access was taken down. Sometimes inadvertently.

[StarWarsDoug]

I just want to point out that while a publisher may demand a street date to a product, if a retailer violates that street date, its not the consumers fault. And the item the consumer purchased is for all intents and purposes published. Iirc the german WD has been hitting streets a week early. In software, it used to be in the us if one retailer disregarded street dates all others could, so as to not fall subject to unfair market issues. I thought it was the same with literature, including magazines.

All this to say, dont be so quick to assume said pics were illegal because the magazine had a later street date.

[daboarder]

They're not "ignoring the fanbase" with Blood Bowl, the way blood bowl is structured means its hard for them to keep making money on it, once you've bought your team, you don't really have to buy much else, great for the player, not great for when they want to turn a profit. If they can find a way to make it profitable, of course they'd start it up again and with the last 2 limited edition Boxed Games, they have worked out a way

You have no idea what I was refering too do you?


A littlewhile back GW demanded that any fan site that made mention of bloodbowl (much the same many sites currently cover necromunda) cease and desist.

Mr mystery.

Yeah I think your right. My money is on ffg.


Stick,

Dont be arguing withthem. Their all strung up on their arguments....ya know, those bold legal statements that so far havent had evidence to support them supplied (legal reference people. Internet hearsay does not count.)

[Mr Mystery]

As for BB being one of the special boxed games? Not sure it is....

Space Hulk and Dreadfleet were both totally self contained board games. No real advancement campaign element, no need whatsoever to buy additional models for them.

Bloodbowl however, much like Necromunda and Mordheim, draws much of it's appeal from the advancement tables. It's more than just a boardgame, it's a league game. People are passionate about it because in some instances, people have been playing exactly the same team for years and years. They've taken a rookie player and seen him rise above Griff Oberwald in ability, only to see his head hacked off by a Chainsaw Loony, two weeks before retirement. They have historical rosters. The teams are just as dear to their owner as a football team (proper football mind, played with the foot, and not involving armour) is to the most ardent fan.

Bloodbowl doesn't suit a one off boxed set, it's not the nature of the game.

Now, I can see a company running with Bloodbowl, but equally I see why GW don't. GW want (arguably need) to concentrate on their core games. But....pass it to FFG....or another company...and it still has legs. There's a lot you can do with it in terms of an ongoing property, but GW don't seem to be able to justify the man hours to do so. Limited sales can be overcome with limited edition players. Specific Star Players or Rookie models released for each 'season'. Yes, GW could do this, but it makes more financial sense to have a sculptor work on a character model for the big games, as inherently it will sell more.

GW are still getting used to licensing out as a company. Boardgames to FFG was clearly a mutual test of the waters. Can FFG make enough money out of them to warrant the upfront expense of the license? Can FFG be trusted not to dilute the brand GW are trusting them with? Lot more to it than 'but we'll both make the cashmonies!'

[Denzark]

The theory is that every blogger site where Natfka had author access was taken down. Sometimes inadvertently.


On one of the other threads it was pointed out several other big (in their respective genres) blogs, with no links at all to wargaming, went down.

[daboarder]

As for BB being one of the special boxed games? Not sure it is....

Space Hulk and Dreadfleet were both totally self contained board games. No real advancement campaign element, no need whatsoever to buy additional models for them.

Bloodbowl however, much like Necromunda and Mordheim, draws much of it's appeal from the advancement tables. It's more than just a boardgame, it's a league game. People are passionate about it because in some instances, people have been playing exactly the same team for years and years. They've taken a rookie player and seen him rise above Griff Oberwald in ability, only to see his head hacked off by a Chainsaw Loony, two weeks before retirement. They have historical rosters. The teams are just as dear to their owner as a football team (proper football mind, played with the foot, and not involving armour) is to the most ardent fan.

Bloodbowl doesn't suit a one off boxed set, it's not the nature of the game.

Now, I can see a company running with Bloodbowl, but equally I see why GW don't. GW want (arguably need) to concentrate on their core games. But....pass it to FFG....or another company...and it still has legs. There's a lot you can do with it in terms of an ongoing property, but GW don't seem to be able to justify the man hours to do so. Limited sales can be overcome with limited edition players. Specific Star Players or Rookie models released for each 'season'. Yes, GW could do this, but it makes more financial sense to have a sculptor work on a character model for the big games, as inherently it will sell more.

GW are still getting used to licensing out as a company. Boardgames to FFG was clearly a mutual test of the waters. Can FFG make enough money out of them to warrant the upfront expense of the license? Can FFG be trusted not to dilute the brand GW are trusting them with? Lot more to it than 'but we'll both make the cashmonies!'

Yeah I agree.

Basicallythe IP and the liscences are valuable. But not enough to cut time out of the mainstream support

[Mr Mystery]

Nail on the head in a concise manner young man!

[Power Klawz]

This thread is hella dumb yo.

Also why is all this muck raking being posted in 40k general? Shouldn't someone create a Muck Raking subforum and put it at the top?

[OrksOrksOrks]

You have no idea what I was refering too do you?


A littlewhile back GW demanded that any fan site that made mention of bloodbowl (much the same many sites currently cover necromunda) cease and desist.



Except that didn't actually happen did it.

[daboarder]

Except that didn't actually happen did it.

http://thenaf.net/

See that one?

Used to be Bloodbowl.net before GW went all ragey.

so....still want to play?

[DarkLink]

So, Feait isn't subject to 'Fair Use'. That much is established, on account the pictures had not been released to the public. No issues here, nice and cut and dry.

Actually, all the photos had been released, because not all countries have the same release dates. They'd already come out in, I think, Germany and the UK itself. Even though it was a limited release, it still puts it under fair use. Source (http://apocalypse40k.blogspot.com/2013/05/bols-faeit212-takedown-attorneys.html). BTW, said source is an actual attorney, not an internet "expert".

[Mr Mystery]

Release date in the UK is 'last Saturday of every month'.

Prior pics (not the ones in question) showed WD on pallets, suggesting its being leaked from a distribution hub.

WH Smith, a UK retailer no longer sells WD, as they were releasing it early, and GW put a stop to it.

Far as I'm aware, WD hs a global release date. So if its 'rogue' retailers selling early, how would that affect things?

[Mr Mystery]

Release date in the UK is 'last Saturday of every month'.

Prior pics (not the ones in question) showed WD on pallets, suggesting its being leaked from a distribution hub.

WH Smith, a UK retailer no longer sells WD, as they were releasing it early, and GW put a stop to it.

Far as I'm aware, WD hs a global release date. So if its 'rogue' retailers selling early, how would that affect things?

[Wolfshade]

http://thenaf.net/

See that one?

Used to be Bloodbowl.net before GW went all ragey.

so....still want to play?

No not GW went all rage, GW had to comply with Enlgish & Welsh copyright.

The simple fact is that the URL Bloodbowl.net you assume that it is associated with the Bloodbowl game and could cause confusion between official GW and not.

They spell it out on their website:


Web Names

Please don't use one of our registered trademarks as part of your web domain name. This right is reserved for GW companies and formal licensees only.


http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=&section=&pIndex=3&aId=3900002&start=4&multiPageMode=true