While Supplies Last; Specislist Games

[RexScarlet]

Specialist Games on GW site are now; While Supplies Last?
.
Make of it what you will?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/524134.page

UPDATE:
When stocks of Epic, BFG, Necromunda, Warmaster, Mordheim and Inquisitor run out, then they are gone for good. Multiple people have confirmed this with GW's Customer Service and warehouse staff. ~Apocalypse 40K

[Gotthammer]

Epic Addiction has more news (http://epicaddiction.wordpress.com/). Forge World is also dumping their specialist games lines.

[Kirsten]

not a surprise really, I suspect most people by now have the specialist games stuff they want with them not being supported. though bloodbowl still draws in new players round here

[ElectricPaladin]

Epic Addiction has more news (http://epicaddiction.wordpress.com/). Forge World is also dumping their specialist games lines.

Well... cr@p. I was just saying to myself "self, you have an Imperial fleet and a Chaos fleet, and even though you kind of want an Eldar fleet and a Blood Angels fleet, the only thing you really want from BFG now is Forgeworld Tau fleet."

And now this.

Well... luckily I get paid today.

[Mr Mystery]

Wonder if they're licensing that side out?

[Ordo Septenarius]

Checking GW's page, everything in the specialist games range reads "No longer available" for me.

[Brakkart]

Checking GW's page, everything in the specialist games range reads "No longer available" for me.

You must be looking at a different GW site to me then cos while there are a few "No Longer Availiable" listings, most are still showing as being in stock and dispatched in 24 hours.

[Mr.Pickelz]

Just checked this myself. I guess I can't procrastinate getting the last SM BFG stuff now. :(

Edit: So this brings a question to mind, What if you bought something and it was broke, or warped to the extreme, would GW replace it like they do their other models, or because they're no longer available GW would simply say no?

[Mrchilidog]

Is it possible this is just being done in anticipation of new versions of these games coming out? Didn't someone mention that Blood Bowl was on tap for a new summer release?

[ElectricPaladin]

Just checked this myself. I guess I can't procrastinate getting the last SM BFG stuff now. :(

After some soul searching, I've decided that I'm not going to invest in Tau or Space Marines. I'm really sad about this, but I think it's the right choice.

Look... if BFG's model line is really going down the tubes, then the game is only going to shrink from here on out, and it's already a really tiny game. However much I want a Tau army, I really don't want to dump a bunch of money on a game that I will, increasingly, have no opportunity to play. I'd rather spend that money on something I'm going to use.

::sigh:: maybe it's time to think about Firestorm Armada. I've heard good things about that game.

EDIT: That said, if BFG is getting re-released, I'm all over that... but rushing to pick up a Tau fleet just isn't going to happen.

[pgarfunkle]

I've been umming and ahhhing for ages about buying a marine strike cruiser or battle barge just to paint up in blood angel colours to keep on the desk for a bit of fun. Looks like I will actually have to make a decision now

[Brakkart]

I've been umming and ahhhing for ages about buying a marine strike cruiser or battle barge just to paint up in blood angel colours to keep on the desk for a bit of fun. Looks like I will actually have to make a decision now

I had the same idea, though I'd get one for my Imperial Fists. Would have to be the Strike Cruiser though as the Battle Barge is already listed as No Longer Available. Very tempted to grab the Inquisitor game's Deathwatch Space Marine model for the same reason.

[Mr.Pickelz]

I had the same idea, though I'd get one for my Imperial Fists. Would have to be the Strike Cruiser though as the Battle Barge is already listed as No Longer Available. Very tempted to grab the Inquisitor game's Deathwatch Space Marine model for the same reason.

On the US Site, the Battlebarge is still buyable, I just placed an order for one. :confused:

[Certs]

::sigh:: maybe it's time to think about Firestorm Armada. I've heard good things about that game.


I'd recommend trying Firestorm Armada out.

Like BFG, the rules and army lists are also available online. The ship sizes are also about equivalent to BFG, so it's possible to just proxy what you have now to play it - as all LoF and measurements are taken from flight pegs anyways.

Otherwise, an FA starter pack (battleship, 3 cruisers, 6 frigates) costs about $50 and 3-4 more blisters will getting you to standard 1000pt game size at a little over $100.

[eldargal]

not a surprise really, I suspect most people by now have the specialist games stuff they want with them not being supported. though bloodbowl still draws in new players round here
Yep. While sad* people will make far too big an issue out of this, the simple fact was SGs were never a huge seller as due to their scale you could buy everything you wanted reasonably rapidly and then not have to buy any more. I'm surprised they left them this long, I'd like to hope that their customer service is being coy and mean that only the metal miniatures will be gone for good but I doubt it.

*Very, very sad.

[daboarder]

Maybe its just me but....for once aussie aren't getting it as rough. We do not have the "while stocks last" appendage on our specialist games stock...

I think I'll grab terminus est and a Battle barge while their available...

[White Tiger88]

Wait does this mean the Eldar BFG fleet i have in a bag some where will go up in value?

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Sad times. BFG was the first boxed game I ever bought. Still love it.

But that's the way of the world, and these things haven't had full support for almost (over?) ten years now. It's a testament to the communities that they've kept going so long.

And, honestly, for things like Necromunda, Inquisitor and so on... the rules are available for free, and kitbashing from existing miniature ranges is totally viable, so they'll be fine.

[Psychosplodge]

Aren't the older black and yellow bordered necromunda ruleset better though?

[Mr Mystery]

Just had a squizz....think I'm missing something. Not seeing any 'while stocks last' bits on Necromunda or BFG?

Where is it saying it?

[Psychosplodge]

The space marine battle barge is showing as no longer available...

[Mr Mystery]

So it is.

Might be an issue with my PC. It's showing two blue boxes on each page, which I suspect are hiding that bit.

[Psychosplodge]

I haven't seen anything that actually says while stocks last...

[Mr Mystery]

Curious.

Hey ho. Might need to keep an eye on this....

Also...here's a thought......all the SG gubbins (barring the odd unit here and there) is metal yes? And of course, GW are moving away from metal. Moulds for metal models are rubber (or near as) and perish over time, and need periodic replacement? More rational explanations there I guess.

[Kirsten]

Just had a squizz

see a doctor

as others have said I could well see it being licenced in other formats, like FFG doing a bloodbowl box

[daboarder]

Aren't the older black and yellow bordered necromunda ruleset better though?

Nah the community edition (widely available) is far superior and still occasionally updated.

Its basically necromunda 2.5

[Psychosplodge]

Nah the community edition (widely available) is far superior and still occasionally updated.

Its basically necromunda 2.5

Better than the pdf from GW? though?

[daboarder]

Better than the pdf from GW? though?

It the uodated version of the gw pdf.....so much better and hss inbuilt faq support.

[sangrail777]

I was just teaching my son how to play BFG, hope they make them plastic then.

[ElectricPaladin]

I was just teaching my son how to play BFG, hope they make them plastic then.

Personally, I'm giving up on BFG and starting Firestorm Armada. Sorry... but this game has been in a weird limbo for a long time, and this is the final nail in the coffin. I'm not going to throw out or sell my models or anything, but I am going to start something new, and probably stop investing in BFG unless I can get a great deal on eBay or at a flea market or something (that's how I could three Imperial cruisers and nine assorted Chaos escorts for $30).

[magickbk]

It's kind of funny, way back in the day there was no uproar when anything Specialist got discontinued. The mentality behind the games was that your gaming club would get it when it came out and then play it every once in a while amongst the group after the initial release. Not sure if that is still how things work in the UK, but GW used to heavily support clubs, including having special web pages for them, and a club finder to find people near you that played. In the US this was never the case, and it has always been about the FLGS, which frequently has a larger but more transient group that makes it difficult to play the other games. I've played in a few Necromunda campaigns over the years, but I think it has been about 13 years since I played in a store outside a group of 5 people that occasionally break it out.

[gunslinger626]

GW... GW... Are you INTENTIONALLY trying to go out of business? Do you hate yourself so much? Get yourself into counseling before you just start killing whole product lines.

[Ghostofman]

GW... GW... Are you INTENTIONALLY trying to go out of business? Do you hate yourself so much? Get yourself into counseling before you just start killing whole product lines.

More likely they are in counseling and killing product lines is what they need to do to stay in business.

The economy and (many) other factors have been hitting GW pretty hard the last couple years. It's not the end of the world for them, but they are trying to keep the number of broken seals below 5. Dropping older lines that aren't moving (and aren't even really supported) to reduce overall costs is just basic business practice. If anything I'm a little surprised it took them this long to cut their losses. Though I suspect that the little sales bump from the fans buying up what they can before it's gone will be carefully applied to the next quarterly report to make it look like a repeatable gain...

[ElectricPaladin]

More likely they are in counseling and killing product lines is what they need to do to stay in business.

The economy and (many) other factors have been hitting GW pretty hard the last couple years. It's not the end of the world for them, but they are trying to keep the number of broken seals below 5. Dropping older lines that aren't moving (and aren't even really supported) to reduce overall costs is just basic business practice. If anything I'm a little surprised it took them this long to cut their losses. Though I suspect that the little sales bump from the fans buying up what they can before it's gone will be carefully applied to the next quarterly report to make it look like a repeatable gain...

This is where I am. Not buying stuff up - I'm not going to pour more money into a game that is both dead where I live and dying off in general - but in not having strong feelings. It's sad, but I'm sure that GW is doing what they see as best in this case.

Frankly, the real problem may be in the idea of Specialist Games, rather than in the final killing-off. Maybe it made sense back in the day of tightly knit groups of friends playing in their garages, but in this day and age of game stores, Internet communities, and tournaments, people want games that they can pick up, carry around, and play anywhere, and that requires perpetual distribution. GW never intended for specialist games to be played like this... and now they're just letting it go.

[gcsmith]

Personally, while it's a shame they are not going to be stocked any more. It's no big loss to me, I recently got into dread ball, and all I can say is, I love my New Luna Republic Elements.

[Psyberwolfe]

Drop games people like because LoTR/Hobbit has gone gang busters? /sarcasm

[sangrail777]

I really don't think these will actually be gone for good. I saw on a few of the items that are sold out now say they can be ready to ship in 5-6 weeks. I think the molds might get redone or they are just finally getting turned to finecast. (at least thats what I'm hopeing)

[Arkhan Land]

I'de say were 5 years from being able to buy a tactical squad in walmart

[eldargal]

Right, GW stuffing their products in Walmart is totally in keeping with their whole 'luxury product' thing they have going.:rolleyes:

[Houghten]

I guess this means that The Taros Campaign: Second Edition won't include Epic / Gothic battles...

[spaceman91]

It's a little sad to see them go ( would of liked to take up blood bowl ) but it is probably for the best. Not likely but i would like to see a revamp.

[White Tiger88]

Right, GW stuffing their products in Walmart is totally in keeping with their whole 'luxury product' thing they have going.:rolleyes:

Ya but from the way they market lately i think its safe to say they might try it.

[jonsgot]

I really don't think these will actually be gone for good. I saw on a few of the items that are sold out now say they can be ready to ship in 5-6 weeks. I think the molds might get redone or they are just finally getting turned to finecast. (at least thats what I'm hopeing)

Have you tried to order Arbite Enforcers on the UK site?

[jonsgot]

I'de say were 5 years from being able to buy a tactical squad in walmart

But how long untill LOTR or Warhammer becomes a Specislist Game? I can't see they will both make it long term.

[Kirsten]

don't know about lord of the rings but warhammer will always remain a core system alongside 40k

[eldargal]

By all accounts sales of WFB have been on the rise since 8th edition, even in the US where it has been weaker historically. Industry surveys from a few years ago didn't have WFB on the list of top sellers, now it is fourth (http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/25378.html). To be fair we don't know how much of this figure is based on actual sales data as opposed to retailers impressions but it's all we have. It doesn't seem to take into account anything from GW either, just independent retailers.

[kyfer]

But how long untill LOTR or Warhammer becomes a Specislist Game? I can't see they will both make it long term.

Fantasy will never go Specialist, LoTR only because of The Hobbit. As for the blurted out nonsense of GW products in bloody Walmart, no such thing will happen at all, ever. For one it would lose all exclusiveness, like Eldargal said, and also people expect bulk at these places. Either GW would have to lower it's prices, or they'd have to give far more for the same price, because I don't see people in Walmart paying AU$62 for 10 ****ty plastic marines. Especially when you could probably get a six pack of trackies, a snuggy, your cousin's birthday present, four boxes of chocolates, a toolkit and a Bruce Springsteen Greatest Hits album for roughly the same price there. It's all about value for money, something GW isn't well known for/seen as. BTW didn't hear anything about Blood Bowl disappearing, it was notably absent from the BOLS post.

[Arkhan Land]

But how long untill LOTR or Warhammer becomes a Specislist Game? I can't see they will both make it long term.

That franchise is going to keep making movies for some time to come I assume even if theyre aimed/marketed differently. I expect some sort of character spin off targeting kids audience at some point to my dismay



Right, GW stuffing their products in Walmart is totally in keeping with their whole 'luxury product' thing they have going.:rolleyes:

just so you know walmart already carries most of the non codex/fw GW books online the deathwatch core book is sold out on its site, how hard of leap is a box set of minis being in store during the next Dawn of War release? unless you were being sarcastic in which case you have my apologies

ps:take that local game stores! : (

[Gotthammer]

Until very recently (like, January/February) the BL books were distributed to non-GW stores through Penguin. That has recently been changed (http://www.booksellers.co.nz/members/notices-reminders/black-library-distribution-cease) and now accounts are direct with GW. Whether stores seek out GW for a trade account and if GW is willing to price as necessary is another matter.
Deathwatch and the other RPGs are distributed by Fantasy Flight, so it's a separate matter again.

[sangrail777]

Have you tried to order Arbite Enforcers on the UK site?

Nope havn't tried it, whats up? I shop on the US site, and as far as I can tell the products are being delayed not takin away. anything out of stock says will ship in 3-8 weeks depending on the product with a couple of no longer availiable exceptions.

[Gideus]

Dunno if this means anything, but I checked last night, a bunch of the different models in the BB range, and they were fine.
Checked the same ones this morning and several had changed from the "usually dispatched in 24 hours" to "this product is expected to despatch in nine to ten weeks", like the Galadrieth Gladiators in BB, placing it in the middle of july. However the skaven are no longer available, as are the undead team...and khemri are not even pictured on the site anymore.

[billytwix]

When is GW's next annual/semi-annual financial report? could this be a tactic for the final statement boost before the new term?

I think i'm ok to see the specialist games go. i'm overwhelmed as it is with the monthly new book roll-outs. I do have some heavy nostalgia for the mordheims however. I would be pleased with a mordheim scenery offering. As its an easy game to come up with your own warband, or just to make the skaven densely packed buildings look for the game.

[Matt Hayes]

I was a little upset when they did Dreadfleet instead of updating something GOOD, like BFG... now I'm really pissed. A slight rules overhaul, maybe redo the book and actually sell it in stores and BFG could have been a good seller. Specialist games only died because they let it over the course of many years with no support.

[eldargal]

And Specialist Games were allowed to die over the course of many years because they didn't make enough money. GW are a business, not a charity.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I imagine it's currently taking up warehouse space and man-hours that could be more profitably used elsewhere. It's a shame, but these games had a good long run and plenty of support throughout their lives, and these things come to an end. It'd be lovely if people were able to do/make/support things for their love of it, and the shared community experience, but unfortunately we live in a world of the so-called "free market" that people are otherwise so quick to uncritically champion.

[ElectricPaladin]

And Specialist Games were allowed to die over the course of many years because they didn't make enough money. GW are a business, not a charity.

I think that there's an argument to be made that SG were set up to fail, having never been given the support they would have needed to spread their wings and fly as proper games.

That said, I don't think GW would view it as a "failure." Rather, they were never really meant to survive as independent lines. They were meant as fun little one-offs to reward players who were already into GW's games, or to draw new players with variant interests into GW's world, in the hopes that they would buy into the main lines ("wow, Eldar ships sure are neat... I wonder how they play in this 'Warhammer 40k' game all my new Battlefleet Gothic friends are telling me about").

Frankly, it's our own fault for falling in love with these games. We should have known better :-/.

But, look, it isn't all bad. Much as they act like they think they are, GW isn't the only game in town. Companies like Mantic and Spartan have seen the potential in "sci-fi/fantasy football" and "deep space epic naval combat" and have produced some pretty decent games. Maybe it's just time for those of us who loved Battlefleet Gothic or Blood Bowl to find new games?

[eldargal]

They weren't set up to fail, but nor were they intended to be around forever, as you say. Also if they keep the rules up on the website there is nothing stopping you from playing Necromunda and Mordheim at least, both are easy to kitbash from the 40k and WFB ranges. BFG and Epic not so much.

[ElectricPaladin]

They weren't set up to fail, but nor were they intended to be around forever, as you say...

Ah, this is the essential difference of opinion. In my mind, a game that is "successful" continues to exist forever, constantly reinvigorating itself with new editions and added content as necessary. Not necessarily falling prey to creative glut, mind you - "new content" doesn't mean "more factions and unnecessary rules changes," it can mean "expanded model lines, resculpts, and new ways to play the same game." A game that disappears is ultimately a failure. As a player, it makes it exponentially more difficult to grow the game where I am, even if the game materials are still technically available.


Also if they keep the rules up on the website there is nothing stopping you from playing Necromunda and Mordheim at least, both are easy to kitbash from the 40k and WFB ranges. BFG and Epic not so much.

Yes, well... let's hope so. Given the way GW has been behaving, I think there's a pretty decent chance they'll decide to put all the nails in the specialist games coffin in the hopes that this will channel more money to the main lines. Remove the rules from the website, demand that everyone hosting mirrored downloads take them down, too... it would be in character.

[eldargal]

You're thinking like a hobbyist, not a business. GW released these games, they made some money, let the company and fans explore the settings from different angles and were generally healthy. They weren't intended to be perpetually supported money-spinners, but they were still successful.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

They weren't set up to fail; they were set up to have a big splash release and then be maintained, bubbling along with occasional new releases and dedicated magazine support, first in The Citadel Journal, then Fanatic, and then their own bespoke magazines. The first thing that killed the Specialist Game model was the addition of a third main string to the bow: the LOTR/Hobbit license. That took main magazine space and devoted time and resources to supporting a third mainstream game. The other factor was when GW had their big restructuring in the mid-noughties; support since then has been unofficial (on innernet) or semi-official (forge world, and the web PDFs of rulebooks).

Then they released the special, limited edition, one-time-only Space Hulk, and it sold like ****ing hotcakes. Here, then, was a new model: one-time only special releases of premium boxed games, every other year or so, which could be conducted as backroom projects in the design studio and were guaranteed a certain sales figure (by being limited edition). It's a model which supercedes the Specialist Games one, which took more dedicated time, effort and money to keep going, but which could be kept on life support until... well, While Stocks Last.

I think that's an accurate appraisal, anyway.

[eldargal]

Reasonably accurate, but again the support for SGs was never supposed to be indefinite. It lasted while it was financially viable. One of the ex-GW higher ups on Warseer said that even at its peak Epic, one of the more popular SGs, only accounted for something like 2% of GWs revenue. Or was it 5%.. Regardless, it didn't last long at even that level.

If I were GW I would do the following:

-Convert SG ranges to Finecast IFand where financially viable.
-Have a multi-issue WD Mordheim campaign featuring warbands solely made from kitbashed WFB kits.
-Have a multi-issue WD Necromunda campaign feautring gangs consiting solely of kitbashed 40k kits
-Release a special edition Blood Bowl with some new plastic teams and have rules for the rest, maybe have other teams in Finecast if they sell.
-Release a special edition BFG with plastic fleets for each faction. Given the amount of plastic GW can cram in a box like Dreadfleet this doesn't seem impossible.

[ElectricPaladin]

You're thinking like a hobbyist, not a business. GW released these games, they made some money, let the company and fans explore the settings from different angles and were generally healthy. They weren't intended to be perpetually supported money-spinners, but they were still successful.

That's the problem right there!

I am entitled to my point of view. I am a hobbyist, not a company. GW's goal should be to make me happy - to produce products I want to buy at a price I can afford - not do things that make me sad, cause me to doubt any feelings of brand loyalty I might have, and remove the option to give them money for things I want. Privateer Press, for example, might have had perfectly valid business reasons to leave Monsterpocalypse to spin in the wind; what made the decision dumb was all the hobbyists it angered and alienated. It's not enough to think like a business, you need to learn to think like your customers and anticipate their desires and feelings.

There's a whole conversation here about how GW's self-imposed isolation, lack of communication with its fans, weak online presence, and "thinking like a business" decision making are hurting them in the modern hobby world, but that conversation has been had.

I hope it's come across in my posts - I have no rancor towards GW for this decision. They can do what they want with their product. At the end of the day, smart decision or dumb decision, it's their business and my hobby. It could even be a smart decision and still make me sad. I know BFG has been in a weird limbo for a long time.

However, I will say that this decision makes me a lot less likely to invest in a specialist games style release in the future. Maybe - maybe - if it's a totally stand-alone release, like Dreadfleet. But why should I buy into the doomed-to-be-unsupported-and-eventually-die GW version of a skirmish game, or a football game, or a space game, or whatever they come out with next when I can get the same product, supported for as long as the company is around, from someone else?

[ElectricPaladin]

Reasonably accurate, but again the support for SGs was never supposed to be indefinite. It lasted while it was financially viable. One of the ex-GW higher ups on Warseer said that even at its peak Epic, one of the more popular SGs, only accounted for something like 2% of GWs revenue. Or was it 5%.. Regardless, it didn't last long at even that level.

If I were GW I would do the following:

-Convert SG ranges to Finecast IFand where financially viable.
-Have a multi-issue WD Mordheim campaign featuring warbands solely made from kitbashed WFB kits.
-Have a multi-issue WD Necromunda campaign feautring gangs consiting solely of kitbashed 40k kits
-Release a special edition Blood Bowl with some new plastic teams and have rules for the rest, maybe have other teams in Finecast if they sell.
-Release a special edition BFG with plastic fleets for each faction. Given the amount of plastic GW can cram in a box like Dreadfleet this doesn't seem impossible.

This would be a very different approach, and probably successful.

[eldargal]

Oh I'm not saying your opinion is wrong or silly, I'm just saying that were you in GWs position you would have a different perspective.

[ElectricPaladin]

Oh I'm not saying your opinion is wrong or silly, I'm just saying that were you in GWs position you would have a different perspective.

Quite true.

I still think, though, that the extent to which a business's perspective differs from its customers', it is not a successful business. Or, to put it another way, in a venn diagram where the two circles are "customers' perspective" and "business's perspective," the area of overlap would be titled "profit."

With the caveat that should the venn diagram ever become a circle, the company might just die from lack of long-range planning, willingness to kill darlings, etc.

I don't have the data to know whether this is an example of GW's perspective being just barely different enough for optimal success, or if it means that the circles are too divergent. Only time (and profit reports) can tell us that.

[DorrieB]

Hello. Just thought I'd add that 'While supplies last' is somewhat misleading. GW don't actually carry stock of specialist miniatures, they are made to order when you order them. What it probably means is that they are running out of white metal and will not be able to make any more metal miniatures to order once their current stock of it is gone. They will not be buying any more 'white metal' alloy because tin has become prohibitive worldwide, which is what triggered the switch to Finecast in the first place (and why every other company is gradually changing to resin or plastic, in case you haven't noticed), and it's probably not worth it to upgrade the old sculpts to Finecast, and most people wouldn't want them to anyway.

So it isn't going to be that specialist games miniatures are gradually discontinued as 'supplies' of them run out. It's going to be that suddenly they'll run out of white metal to make them with and in that moment *all* of their metal miniatures are going to be discontinued, all at once. And also it isn't a decision made by evil or foolish GW executives just to spite their customers, it is an inevitable event due to circumstances beyond their control.

[Lukas The Trickster]

That's the problem right there!

I am entitled to my point of view. I am a hobbyist, not a company. GW's goal should be to make me happy - to produce products I want to buy at a price I can afford - not do things that make me sad, cause me to doubt any feelings of brand loyalty I might have, and remove the option to give them money for things I want.



Yeah, but based on that logic Ford would still be holding the tooling for the model T in their warehouses because a small minority of vintage car collectors may want to buy one - Games Workshops goal is to make a profit; keeping you happy is only relevant if you are buying enough of one their products to make it cost effective to produce, which obviously wasn't happening. You have to look at it objectively, these games were never intended to play 'first fiddle' alongside the likes of 40K and WFB, and sales had probably been declining steadily for years, with those that continued to play them probably using models and rules sets they bought long ago. If the specialist games were no longer selling, it costs GW money in continuing to support the rules sets, lost storage space keeping the molds and in staff time casting stuff up on the rare occasions customers actually bought it. GW's mistake, in my opinion, was to continue to string these games along with half-arsed releases and rules updates past their initial splash release. They have obviously since seen sense with the occasional 'one off' releases such as Space Hulk in 2009, Dreadfleet in 2011 and the upcoming re-release of Blood Bowl, which will probably also cease to be available after the initial production run has finished.

I personally don't understand why many of you on here suddenly seem to have had their enjoyment of these games scuppered by the fact they are no longer supported - most of you already had the rules and miniatures anyway, and they were all very restricted in their playability so there was only ever a very finite amount of new stuff that they could have released, even if made sense to do so. If you already have the rules and models then just enjoy them for what they are ;)

[ElectricPaladin]

Yeah, but based on that logic Ford would still be holding the tooling for the model T in their warehouses because a small minority of vintage car collectors may want to buy one - Games Workshops goal is to make a profit; keeping you happy is only relevant if you are buying enough of one their products to make it cost effective to produce, which obviously wasn't happening. You have to look at it objectively, these games were never intended to play 'first fiddle' alongside the likes of 40K and WFB, and sales had probably been declining steadily for years, with those that continued to play them probably using models and rules sets they bought long ago. If the specialist games were no longer selling, it costs GW money in continuing to support the rules sets, lost storage space keeping the molds and in staff time casting stuff up on the rare occasions customers actually bought it. GW's mistake, in my opinion, was to continue to string these games along with half-arsed releases and rules updates past their initial splash release. They have obviously since seen sense with the occasional 'one off' releases such as Space Hulk in 2009, Dreadfleet in 2011 and the upcoming re-release of Blood Bowl, which will probably also cease to be available after the initial production run has finished.

I was speaking more generally of GW's behavior. This decision? I don't have the data. Might be right, might be disastrous; only time will tell.


I personally don't understand why many of you on here suddenly seem to have had their enjoyment of these games scuppered by the fact they are no longer supported - most of you already had the rules and miniatures anyway, and they were all very restricted in their playability so there was only ever a very finite amount of new stuff that they could have released, even if made sense to do so. If you already have the rules and models then just enjoy them for what they are ;)

I've been able to find two other BFG players in my area, in different parts of my (unusually large) stomping grounds. BFG needed some serious evangelizing to spread, evangelizing that is now impossible because the ability of people I sell the game to to pick it up and start it based on a demo is now hindered.

Can I still get the occasional BFG game on? Sure. Will I have much luck building a community of BFG players? No, not really. Not anymore.

[The_Real_Chris]

Lot of odd analysis and misinformed opinion on this thread. Incidentally the price quoted to manufacture and run a SG line from GW has typically been £2-3 million when companies have enquired (for Eic and Blood Bowl). Wonder if that changes now? Doubt it.

[Tepogue]

[QUOTE=DorrieB;302581]Hello. Just thought I'd add that 'While supplies last' is somewhat misleading. GW don't actually carry stock of specialist miniatures, they are made to order when you order them. QUOTE]

This is wrong, they make minatures in batches. They can't just spin up 1-2 models. It's based on how many are on the spin mould.

[The_Real_Chris]

So rules have gone and an enquiry with GW resulted in "You are welcome to pass on any PDFs that you have relating to these rules but for legal reasons you won't be able to advertise them on any websites."

[ElectricPaladin]

So rules have gone and an enquiry with GW resulted in "You are welcome to pass on any PDFs that you have relating to these rules but for legal reasons you won't be able to advertise them on any websites."

I'm glad they aren't trying to stop us. Not that they'd have much luck, but they could make our lives difficult if they wanted to.

That said, I'm getting happier and happier about my decision to buy those Firestorm Armada fleets. Model lines running out, rules down, and now all downloads have to be from gamer to gamer, rather than sending them to the GW site to "get what you need." Things don't look good for Battlefleet Gothic.

[Gotthammer]

Rules are still up on the Australian site.

Though personally I think GW made the right decision (http://collegiatitanica.blogspot.com.au/2013/05/games-workshop-was-right-to-dump.html).

[eldargal]

What rules are gone? All the pdfs are still there as far as I can see, just downloaded one to check.

[Defenestratus]

Sigh

Only GW could get away with ending a product line and people would actually thank them for it.

Personally Necromunda is experiencing a healthy renaissance around here - more people play it than 40k at my local shop and now .. this...

Guess everyone will be kitbashing IG command squad dudes.

[Gotthammer]

Well, you can still play Necromunda, nobody's stopping you. Kitbashing plastics seems like it would be better anyway given the monopose nature of the minis.


But, yes it truly is a great loss of the sculptor's art (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat490046a&prodId=prod1110267). Why would I think that removing such fantastic figures (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat490003a&prodId=prod1560113) could have an upside of seeing what would no doubt be inferior replacements? :p

[eldargal]

Oh god I'd forgotten poor Prince Moranion, for gods sake let him die with dignity.

[Gotthammer]

That death was never an option ;) I imagine him in the locker room and everyone's just silent, staring at him putting his gear on, and he stops, waving for his servants to wheel in a packing crate:
"I see you're all impressed now, but you don't the full effect without the hat!"

[Defenestratus]

Well, you can still play Necromunda, nobody's stopping you. Kitbashing plastics seems like it would be better anyway given the monopose nature of the minis.


But, yes it truly is a great loss of the sculptor's art (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat490046a&prodId=prod1110267). Why would I think that removing such fantastic figures (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat490003a&prodId=prod1560113) could have an upside of seeing what would no doubt be inferior replacements? :p

Just because the sculpts aren't of the finest quality doesn't mean that they have no value. Kitbashing is all well and good but its going to be very difficult for someone who may not prefer the modelling side of our hobby to participate in these games now.

Nevermind the fact that, at least in Necromunda, the IG command squad guys can look like Van Saar, Orlocks, or Goliath. I wouldn't even know what to make for Delaque or Escher kitbashes.

[Gotthammer]

I'm not saying they have no value, I'm saying they're tired, ugly and do not represent GW's current sculpting ability, so are incongruous with the image as a premier miniature manufacturer they wish to project. If you don't like my Christmas Jumper analogy, it's like those boxes that just sit gathering dust in your FLGS - they look more and more tired, the box starts to fade and compared to the new product coming in they have almost no street appeal unless you already want to buy them. Any sensible shopkeeper would pull them off the shelf and devote the space to something people are going to buy, as having product that doesn't sell not only brings in no money, but makes the shop look untidy and less inviting.

Delaque (http://heresyminiatures.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_15&products_id=287). For Esher use Wyches as a base, just cut off some of the more extraneous bits of armour.. You can get bare more arms from the Wych, Scourge and Helion kits (including rifle holding ones), other than that it's really a matter of a few weapon swaps.

[ElectricPaladin]

Rules are still up on the Australian site.

Though personally I think GW made the right decision (http://collegiatitanica.blogspot.com.au/2013/05/games-workshop-was-right-to-dump.html).

Well-written article, by the way.

I maintain that they made the right decision given the current situation of Specialist Games. However, the success of games like Dropzone Commander, Dreadbowl, and Firestorm Armada shows that a market exists for epic-scale battles, sci-fi/fantasy sports, and space naval combat games. So, why can't GW take advantage of those markets?

I think the problem - the serious mistake - is with the idea of Specialist Games. I think that given how many options we now have as gamers, limited run games just aren't going to be successful. Why should anyone buy a limited-edition game of any kind when I can find the same sort of game, in a format designed to last?

[Gotthammer]

Thankyou :)

I think they could have, but they're going to need to do some seriously impressive stuff to get Epic and BFG back on the pedestal. Blood Bowl I don't think will be in any danger if tehy do a relaunch, though hopefully not as a limited run. Limited in stores then direct after six months maybe I could see working.


To a certain degree Kickstarter is giving us a deluge of limited run games. Lots of anecdotal evidence, but there are retailer reports that many of the "big" Kickstarters aren't moving much or seeing much play. I think there's a certain attachment to having a game that "just is", and you can play it when you feel like it without having to worry about keeping up with the latest edition or armylist or what have you. Sort of a hybrid board game and wargame.

[ElectricPaladin]

Thankyou :)

I think they could have, but they're going to need to do some seriously impressive stuff to get Epic and BFG back on the pedestal. Blood Bowl I don't think will be in any danger if tehy do a relaunch, though hopefully not as a limited run. Limited in stores then direct after six months maybe I could see working.


To a certain degree Kickstarter is giving us a deluge of limited run games. Lots of anecdotal evidence, but there are retailer reports that many of the "big" Kickstarters aren't moving much or seeing much play. I think there's a certain attachment to having a game that "just is", and you can play it when you feel like it without having to worry about keeping up with the latest edition or armylist or what have you. Sort of a hybrid board game and wargame.

"Limited run" might be the wrong word. It's more that a lot of Kickstarter games are "self-contained." Single products - perhaps with expansions, like Super Dungeon Explore, perhaps not - rather than eternally expanding lines of minis to collect.

[Gotthammer]

It'll be interesting to see how many of these games are still in print in five years though.

[Kirsten]

Just because the sculpts aren't of the finest quality doesn't mean that they have no value. Kitbashing is all well and good but its going to be very difficult for someone who may not prefer the modelling side of our hobby to participate in these games now.

Nevermind the fact that, at least in Necromunda, the IG command squad guys can look like Van Saar, Orlocks, or Goliath. I wouldn't even know what to make for Delaque or Escher kitbashes.

I am sure there will be enough ebay sales and local sales of old models to keep people happy. as for conversions, I made Escher out of wyches, and delaque out of empire archers, fill in the ruffles with green stuff, usual guard arms, generally cadian with the shoulder pads removed, catachan medic head, and sentinel pilot head

[ElectricPaladin]

It'll be interesting to see how many of these games are still in print in five years though.

That's true. I do think that Kickstarter may prove to have the property of "front-loading" the design and distribution process, so that after the successful Kickstarter, the company quickly realizes that they don't actually have a company and disappear in a puff of logic. We'll see.

That said, Kickstarter isn't the only route to success for new, small, tightly written games (and well-run companies). Spartan Games - maker of several naval-type games, with an epic-scale tank-and-walker based game in production - doesn't use Kickstarter, and they seem to be on the rise.

[Kirsten]

in five years everyone will be playing my in progress game ;)

[ElectricPaladin]

in five years everyone will be playing my in progress game ;)

:-o

I've seen your conversions. I'm in. Tell me more!

[Kirsten]

hehe, noo, all hush hush at the moment, being unemployed really limits what I can do in terms of buying conversion bits and scenery for playtesting.

[ElectricPaladin]

hehe, noo, all hush hush at the moment, being unemployed really limits what I can do in terms of buying conversion bits and scenery for playtesting.

Maybe you should do a Kickstarter :-P.

Seriously. I would back the sh*t out of anything you did, if the rules were sound and the price was right and it was in a genre I was interested in. I've seen your conversions. You have a beautifully weird imagination.

[Kirsten]

thanks, need to try it out first, get it solid. I am not currently intending it for any sort of release or kickstart, just something to occupy my time.

[DorrieB]

Hello. Just thought I'd add that 'While supplies last' is somewhat misleading. GW don't actually carry stock of specialist miniatures, they are made to order when you order them.

This is wrong, they make minatures in batches. They can't just spin up 1-2 models. It's based on how many are on the spin mould.

Is that true? I dunno. All I can tell you is that I bought some miniatures last year at Nottingham and they brought them to me at Bugman's about 4 hours later, still warm and shiny fresh made.

[ElectricPaladin]

Is that true? I dunno. All I can tell you is that I bought some miniatures last year at Nottingham and they brought them to me at Bugman's about 4 hours later, still warm and shiny fresh made.

It's true! One of the podcasts I listened to talked about it.

However, I don't think GW does "print on demand" in a large-scale way. Just for folks who bother to show up at Nottingham.

[Kirsten]

they used to do casting on demand, I remember them advertising that if you went to warhammer world you could watch them cast up the sprues you wanted

[ElectricPaladin]

they used to do casting on demand, I remember them advertising that if you went to warhammer world you could watch them cast up the sprues you wanted

Doing the occasional cast-on-demand to entertain a loyal customer is totally different from switching even a single line entirely to a cast-on-demand scheme.

[Kirsten]

I never said they should do it now, I was simply mentioning an interesting point

[Wildeybeast]

I regularly go to Warhammer World. You can indeed nip into the store and order anything from the website (or indeed FW), regardless of stock level, and they will get it to you in a few hours. Never come across or heard of anything they won't/can't do.

[jonsgot]

Nope havn't tried it, whats up? I shop on the US site, and as far as I can tell the products are being delayed not takin away. anything out of stock says will ship in 3-8 weeks depending on the product with a couple of no longer availiable exceptions.

There's nothing there.

[KINGS]

I regularly go to Warhammer World. You can indeed nip into the store and order anything from the website (or indeed FW), regardless of stock level, and they will get it to you in a few hours. Never come across or heard of anything they won't/can't do.
Last time I went to warhammer world was in 2008 and that was not the case. I had to ask in advance (several days) for specific FW models to be available to me and still some were out of stock... At least they had an Avatar for me :)

[DorrieB]

It's true! One of the podcasts I listened to talked about it.

However, I don't think GW does "print on demand" in a large-scale way. Just for folks who bother to show up at Nottingham.

Okay. But the fact remains that a) these are metal miniatures, and b) there is no more metal.

Imagine that I run a pie shop and you like banana pie. Let's say that it isn't very popular, but bananas aren't expensive so I don't mind keeping a few in stock for people who like it. Then one day the Chinese develop a way to turn bananas into rocket fuel, and suddenly every government in the world wants bananas. It's impossible for a humble pie shop to get hold of any bananas, and even then we could not afford them because the price is now 100 pounds a banana. As it happens I still have a few bananas in the freezer, and I will happily continue to provide banana pies for as long as those bananas last. But once they're gone, you can't reasonably expect me to invest all of my savings and risk the dangerous world of dodgy banana dealers just so that I can continue to offer banana pie. It was never even a big seller for me in the first place. I know you're disappointed, but it isn't really up to me... we have no bananas.

[Aenir]

Okay. But the fact remains that a) these are metal miniatures, and b) there is no more metal.

Imagine that I run a pie shop and you like banana pie. Let's say that it isn't very popular, but bananas aren't expensive so I don't mind keeping a few in stock for people who like it. Then one day the Chinese develop a way to turn bananas into rocket fuel, and suddenly every government in the world wants bananas. It's impossible for a humble pie shop to get hold of any bananas, and even then we could not afford them because the price is now 100 pounds a banana. As it happens I still have a few bananas in the freezer, and I will happily continue to provide banana pies for as long as those bananas last. But once they're gone, you can't reasonably expect me to invest all of my savings and risk the dangerous world of dodgy banana dealers just so that I can continue to offer banana pie. It was never even a big seller for me in the first place. I know you're disappointed, but it isn't really up to me... we have no bananas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGldNpngDws

How does one embed youtube on BOLS?

[Psychosplodge]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGldNpngDws

How does one embed youtube on BOLS?


like that...

[Aenir]

like that...

doh, I mean the tags? I thought it was


link(last digits) but it didn't show up either with the full link or the end of the link

[Psychosplodge]

[video} {/video] but all square brackets

[Aenir]

[video} {/video] but all square brackets

:D thanks

[A.j. Heiskell]

Ive been a BFG head since they introduced the game. I play Chaos and the Greenskins(just for a laugh).
The can stop producing ships anytime they want. It's not like anything new has come out in years. But truth be told, some of the best ships Ive ever seen, were scratch built.

Its not the end of BFG, as long as people have bitz boxes,some plasi-card and an imagination,the game will survive.

May the Corpse emperor finally decay! And happy wishes..... A.