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View Full Version : Chaos Space Marines: Bringing Close Combat Back to the Game



Caitsidhe
04-29-2013, 06:37 AM
There are several dirty (only because no one else has been using them yet) tricks which can bring close combat back into the game. Some of them even come with an evil amount of shooting firepower. I'm not "that guy" who figures something out and then sits on it to spring it on people at tournaments. I'm the other weird kind of guy who is absolutely honest with you when he gives you advice and is surprised you dont' take it, since you are making the assumption that I'm just trying to get into your head. :) Here are some interesting things I realized:

1. Jump Infantry are still Infantry and not a different Unit Type in 6th Edition.

Some of you may have been way ahead of me on this one, but judging by the posts, many people didn't realize that Jump and Jetpack units are no longer a distinct unit type. This means that they be used with the Warlord trait to Infiltrate without joining a special character to them. This means, of course, that if you go second you could easily be making an assault on your first turn. I will come back to this one in a minute.

2. The Skyshield is actually the best forward assault vehicle you have ever seen.

The Skyshield can be placed anywhere on your half of the table. That means you can have it right up to the midway point. It also means that you can start people on it if you have the ability to Infiltrate. Since your opponent can't assault if he/she goes first, it isn't a bad place to be. It gives you a 4+ Invulnerable save. It gives you excellent range from this forward position for all sorts of firepower (even the mid-range and short-range stuff) and nothing prevents you from moving off it during your movement and then assaulting the troops most likely nearby. Perhaps your opponents will try to deploy further back away from it allowing you to disrupt their lines.

3. Noise Marines are the ultimate in Shooting and Assault.

While Plague Marines have great overall utility, there is something to be said for Noise Marines. The only issue with their Sonic Weapons (the basic Blaster) is that it is Salvo and has mid-range. Think about the Skyshield above. Think about a (20) Man unit of Sonic Weapons staring down at an opponent on Turn-1 with a guaranteed 24" range to nearly every point in said opponent's deployment zone. Think about how many shots which ignore cover can come off that thing. If you go first you can literally decimate nearly any unit. If you go second, you can easily go down and assault anything close by, still using the Doom Siren and Blastmasters since they are Assault.

4. Huron guarantees you a D3 Infiltrating Units.

What else needs to be said about that?

5. A Land Raider can be a dedicated vehicle to Terminators. Terminators are Infantry.

Now imagine a situation where you have parked an infiltrated forward Land Raider under your Skyshield with a pylon obscuring at least 25% of it. If you go second you are almost certainly going to be able to shove five Terminators down the throat of someone's gun line. If that Land Raider has Dirge Casters there will be no overwatch.

6. Nothing prevents you from starting a Land Raider on top of the Skyshield, although you will be stuck there.

Welcome to the worlds largest, assault Pill Box. What you really have is an expensive gun emplacement staring down into the opposing player's table half that has two twin-linked Lascannons, a Heavy Bolter, a 4+ Save against anything you throw at it, an AR-14, and four Hull Points. You can start there on the first Turn butted up to the edge toward your opponent and just shoot everything if you go first. If you go second they have to manage to destroy it (not as easy as it looks) because you are going to deploy out of the vehicle on the ground with five Terminators or four w/Huron to assault on your first turn if anyone was stupid enough to deploy close.

7. The Skyshield cannot be destroyed.

8. The Skyshield gives a 4+ Invulnerable not Cover so nobody can take that away (Helldrakes, Tau, etc.).

9. If your Skyshield is front and center forcing people to deploy away from it to the corners Outflank hits them harder.

10. Nobody expects this yet.


Close combat is a pain in 6th Edition. I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to get to all these gun lines in a reliable way by the first or second turn while also minimizing Overwatch. CSM has the tools to do this and when you start thinking of the Skyshield as a foward assault vehicle, it makes this option a reality again if you are willing to look at Huron.

Caitsidhe
04-29-2013, 07:41 AM
There are some interesting questions that need to Faq'd once lots of people beside myself starting taking advantage. Here are some interesting questions for Games Workshop:

1. Can someone attempt to Deepstrike "under" a Skyshield? *I would think not for fluff reasons, but right now nothing prevents you from trying to hit dead center under one rather than on top.

2. Since the Skyshield is "unique" terrain with the top being treated as "open terrain" when unfurled, nothing prevents us from putting a non-flyer vehicle up there. Did you really mean for us to do it? Also, what is to stop me from jumping my Land Raider off it? Right now I'm assumign I'm stuck up there for fluff reasons, but per the RAW a Land Raider (any vehicle) is a unit and could just take the risks and jump off.

Sly
04-29-2013, 09:25 AM
It would be very cinematic to rev the engines and zoom that bad boy off the shield right on top of a Carnifex, squishing it like a bug.

Caitsidhe
04-29-2013, 09:34 AM
It would be very cinematic to rev the engines and zoom that bad boy off the shield right on top of a Carnifex, squishing it like a bug.

Cinematic yes... but risky assuming you can do it. The Carnifex would just do the heroic stand and has a good chance of destroying it.

Denzark
04-29-2013, 01:37 PM
Right Katey you said you were coming back to post 1 in your first post...

Caitsidhe
04-29-2013, 02:11 PM
Right Katey you said you were coming back to post 1 in your first post...

So I did, and to a degree I kind of came back to it in the other numbers. Essentially the Skypad makes an excellent launch point for a unit of Raptors (please note that I do not suggest Warp Talons) unless you feel particularly lucky or really like the models). Huron can nominate that unit for Infiltrate and starting on the Skyshield they are about as protected as they are going to get. If you choose wisely, and opt to go second (assuming you win the roll or you opponent just choose to go first) you will see where your opponent places his/her fortification and then you place yours. Then your opponent deploys and hopefully you have stacked the flank with your Skyshield. This will minimize some of the shooting further that will come toward the Raptors and/or the other unit which may start on the pad.

The idea is simple. You weather the shooting and then you unload with your mean shooting unit already on the pad (this assumes you got at least 2+ units to nomiate) and then launch your Raptors as the best choice gun line. I tend to equip Raptors with one Flamer and one Melta Gun. I give the Champion Lightning Claws. Mark of Slaanesh if anything and I do give them the Icon of Excess. It is an expensive unit but it will get the job done. It can also be quite large if you have the points.

Most of the scenarios involve objectives and/or the Relic. Most modern armies are evolving gun lines. The ability to tie up the choice one, i.e. the one that shoots a lot but can't fight its way out of a paper bag cannot be stressed enough. Multi-Charge those Long Fang units. Get into some annoying Firewarriors. You get the idea. Ideally, if you get 2+ units to nomiate you could have the shooty unit you plan on mounting on the Skyshield. Instead of starting it on top you can infiltrate it beneath in the Rhino, right behind a pylon and then on your turn deploy into terrain and as long as you get a 3+ on the rough terrain roll they are on top and th Rhino can take off directly toward the opponent you mean to assault. Get within 6" of them and the Raptors do not have to suffer the indignity of Overwatch.

Depending on how many eggs you want to put into that basket you can take a Mark of Slaanesh Chaos Lord in a Jump Pack and start him with the Raptors, i.e. you nomiate him and he starts with the unit and imbues the infiltrate to them. :D This is a far more aggressive tactic but it does make Noise Marines scoring and those are the guys most able to really abuse the heck out of the Skyshield. The key is soft, but important targets.

rtmaitreya
04-29-2013, 05:47 PM
REALLY hope you get to infiltrate your own guys first.
Placing a mountain of terrain up at the midpoint of the battlefield is just asking for an enemy band of kroot to set up.

DarkLink
04-29-2013, 08:44 PM
This is nice and all, but ultimately shooting dominates in 6th. If you want to be more competitive, and assault isn't working for you, the problem isn't that you're not assaulting well enough, it's that you're sacrificing your shooting in favor of assault. That's fine if you prefer assault, but you won't be winning many tournaments like that.

Blenderovski
04-30-2013, 01:06 AM
In 6th, they are constantly banging on about "forging a narrative", and entrenching yourself in gun positions does not lend itself to tales of heroism... Or much in the way of fun, really. Close combat is where the glory's at! Tournaments schmournaments! :-)

DarkLink
04-30-2013, 02:03 AM
Well, that's not to say that (excluding IG and Tau) static gunlines win, or that bringing some assault is pointless, in fact both cases tend to have some weaknesses. But the bulk of your army does need to be shooting based.


IG and now Tau, though, just aren't much fun to play against. They just sit there and roll dice, and you try and run at them and make saves, and hope you make enough saves to reach them before you die. Tau in particular are super-guilty. They ignore cover so easily, pack such a range of very long-ranged firepower, and get interceptor practically for free, there's no real point in tactics beyond bum-rushing them. Trying to use cover just slows you down, outflanking or deepstriking or refusing the flank don't matter, you can't pull off clever charges because the whole army gets to overwatch as the Tau player sees fit... the new codex has pretty good internal balance, and it's not overpowered, but I just haven't found it fun to play against.

The multitude of nerfs to assault are one of my biggest complaints about 6th. With the way codices have taken the meta, I've changed from seeing 6th as a big improvement over 5th to seeing it as more of the same hit-or-miss. Oh, well, at least 6th did make the game more balanced and allows for a wider variety of competitive army builds.

Shas'O Alohcry
04-30-2013, 02:07 AM
2. The Skyshield is actually the best forward assault vehicle you have ever seen.

The Skyshield can be placed anywhere on your half of the table. That means you can have it right up to the midway point. It also means that you can start people on it if you have the ability to Infiltrate. Since your opponent can't assault if he/she goes first, it isn't a bad place to be. It gives you a 4+ Invulnerable save. It gives you excellent range from this forward position for all sorts of firepower (even the mid-range and short-range stuff) and nothing prevents you from moving off it during your movement and then assaulting the troops most likely nearby. Perhaps your opponents will try to deploy further back away from it allowing you to disrupt their lines.


I always thought this, but after re-reading the rules, I can't find this anywhere. The only reference I can find to not assaulting first turn is if the unit uses a scout redeployment or if it infiltrates. If you go first and there is a unit within charge range (providing your own unit didnt scout/infiltrate) then its fair game.

Caitsidhe
04-30-2013, 04:15 AM
I always thought this, but after re-reading the rules, I can't find this anywhere. The only reference I can find to not assaulting first turn is if the unit uses a scout redeployment or if it infiltrates. If you go first and there is a unit within charge range (providing your own unit didnt scout/infiltrate) then its fair game.

Well I was a bit off in how I said that there. If you use "Infiltrate" you cannot assault if you go first. It is true that if you start in range, their units without infiltrate will be able to assault you. However, at the midway point and on a Skyshield you are pretty safe short of your opponent having Jump Troops. :) Such things would have to be taken into consideration. But you would simply modify just how forward you are based on what you are facing. By in large most people, for now, have moved away from the faster assault troops. This is where you gain the niche.

Caitsidhe
04-30-2013, 04:17 AM
REALLY hope you get to infiltrate your own guys first.
Placing a mountain of terrain up at the midpoint of the battlefield is just asking for an enemy band of kroot to set up.

Possibly. :) Of course I have also seen local TOs rule that since the Fortifications you buy are YOUR unit, that standard rules apply and the other player must keep appropriate distances from them. It is a question I wish they would address in the Faq. I always check ahead of time if the opponent can infiltrate into my fortifications.

Shas'O Alohcry
04-30-2013, 05:06 AM
By in large most people, for now, have moved away from the faster assault troops. This is where you gain the niche.

I always try to field one unit of fast assault troops. People have never really been fond of fast assault units (preferring durability) but they have always done me well, I have found taking the risk of overwatch and risky placements pay off greatly (or make the game a little bit harder for you) but usually the payoff with much greater than the loss. And with gun lines and shooty troops becoming more popular the weaker assault units are finding themselves useful as they are cheaper but can put up a good performance against a inferior foe whereas they were next to useless against other dedicated assault units.

Pater Sin
04-30-2013, 05:46 AM
I've been using basicaly the same army since 2nd. It's about 50/50 shootin and assault, unless I'm playing against my brothers SW where I am willing to ignore most of my shooting in favour of running up and smacking them in the face.

Actually it might have been 3rd. It was a long time ago whenever it was.