Help With Close Combat Question

[FlangeNabber]

So I was playing a Beast Master squad and failed a charge on my opponents Harlequins only to get counter charged in his turn, unfortunite but all good so far. Then in combat I was out manuvered and only managed to get a small part of my squad supporting so didn't do much damage but had most of my squad killed in return.

What I was wondering is if there is a maximum kill radius in combat? It didn't feel right that my opponet could kill something 6-7 inches away from base contact when those models are considerd too far away to even swing? Surely if you can't reach your opponent to swing at them the reverse must also be true but we couldn't find anything to that effect in the rule book at the time? Did we play that correct?

Also on a side note we had a situation after this combat where I made the leadership test but the squads were now so far appart no models could make base contact after consolodating in...
The whole mechanic just felt wrong to the both of us so I'm sure we were doing something wrong, can anyone shed any light on a rule or interpretation we missed?

Also on a related but slightly different note, I've heard talk of a range to be able to issue/accept challanges but can't find a reference to that in the main rule book or faq. Is it true and if so where do I find it in the rule book?

Thanks

[Necron2.0]

Regarding maximum kill radius, the answer is no. On page 25 it is quite explicit: "Note that it is possible for all of the models in the target unit to be hit, wounded and killed, including those that are not engaged."

As for the morale check to see if the remainder of the unit falls back, yes you have to make the role. Being out of range of the combat doesn't free them from the effects of the combat. The rules here are written for the unit, and all the models, whether in range or not, are part of the unit.

Finally, with respect to the "range" at which challenges can be issued or accepted, the rules state that for a model to be able to issue or accept a challenge it must be able to fight in the combat. That means the challenger must either be in base contact or within 2" of a model in base contact with the unit containing the challengee, and the challengee must likewise be either in base contact or within 2" of a model in base contact with the unit containing the challenger.

Note: "Challengee" in this case is any character model in the challenged unit, not a specific model. Therefore, if any character model is in range of the challenging unit, that model becomes the defacto challengee. Also, challenges cannot be issued against characters in transports, since transports cannot be locked in combat.

[Tynskel]

Gotta think of it this way: you guys are still firing guns in close combat, hence the ability to kill unengaged models.

[-Tom-]

Gotta think of it this way: you guys are still firing guns in close combat, hence the ability to kill unengaged models.

However, if those unengaged models also had guns (pistol weapons we should probably say to be specific to CC) one may also argue that if they're within range to be shot and killed, they're within range to shoot back so the argument still stands about how they can be killed in the close combat that they are not 'taking part in'.

[DarkLink]

Then assume the frontline of guys in the partially engaged squad get in the way so the unengaged models can't risk shooting.

[Necron2.0]

Or, during the combat, assume the guys in the back ran forward and got slaughtered, while others who had been closer ran away and only got as far as the rear elements had originally been. After all, the rules do suggest the position of individual models is largely subjective, with individuals dodging, ducking ... "bowing and squawking, running after titbits, bobbing and squinting, just like a nitwit" ... which is why individual models can shoot through their own unit.

[DarkLink]

Point is, you can kill unengaged models, no rules-lawyering involved. If you don't like it, get over it.

[Anggul]

I'm struggling to imagine how you couldn't get many of your models into striking range. Was your Beastmaster pack strung out in single file?

[Wolfshade]

Especially with the various pile in moves....

[FlangeNabber]

I was negotiating a piece of impassable terrain then failed my charge so was a little strung out, then got shot in the flank by outflanking reserve war walkers and then to compond things my opponent only rolled like a 3 or somthing for his charge as well so only a few of his models made base although his others could all manage to support after I6 pile in moves. Just a perfect storm really.

[FlangeNabber]

Thanks every one for the help,
I thought we got it right at the time but it just didn't feel right especially after the dust settled and neither squad could consoladate back to base contact.

Out of interest we played it as the squads were still locked in combat even though they couldn't consoladte back into base contact, was that correct?

[Magpie]

Out of interest we played it as the squads were still locked in combat even though they couldn't consoladte back into base contact, was that correct?

No if your "end of combat" pile in still doesn't get you together (hard to imagine) then it's all over and you each get to consolidate. (page 27)

[Anggul]

It sounds like you were under some very specific and unusual circumstances. Usually the 3" pile-in gets almost all if not all of the unit engaged, considering you only need to be in 2" of another model in base contact to be engaged.