How do I deal with a Deamon prince with MoN, wings and Black mace

[DeadPanda]

This is one evil SOB and I'm struggling to kill the bloody thing. I play Marines. I was thinking TH / SS termies but I'm thinking shooting is better. The problem is if you throw all your fire power at it, it leaves the rest of the army to run riot. Is there a sure fire way to either kill or deal with this threat quickly ? Heldrakes I can handle but this ****ers hard as nails.

[Caitsidhe]

This is one evil SOB and I'm struggling to kill the bloody thing. I play Marines. I was thinking TH / SS termies but I'm thinking shooting is better. The problem is if you throw all your fire power at it, it leaves the rest of the army to run riot. Is there a sure fire way to either kill or deal with this threat quickly ? Heldrakes I can handle but this ****ers hard as nails.

I don't know if I should help you. That evil SOB is always part of my army. Don't forget that the best ones also have a Combat Familiar, Power Armor, and Wings. :) They can also have Psychic Powers but I no longer use them as the return is sketchy. But yes, you illustrate WHY I use Krampus (what I call him) in my lists. He draws firepower off other units and grants board control. To start with, what army (and/or allies) are you using? It is hard to give you advice without knowing what tools you have at your disposal.

[TheWinslow]

Krak missiles are the best way to put down the daemon prince, but the problem is knocking him out of the sky before you can light him up. If you're using rhinos, try shooting the storm bolters at him before firing anything else in your army - forcing a couple of grounding checks is really helpful.

If you don't mind using allies, Tau Skyrays absolutely murder daemon princes - you can use its own markerlights to make the Skyray BS 5, then fire all 6 seeker missiles into the daemon prince on the first turn. Very likely to do 3 or 4 wounds just by itself.

[Jenn]

Believe it or not bolters are quite effective at taking them out, you just have to be ready to commit a fair bit of firepower to the job. My usual strategy is to throw bolters at him until he falls out of the sky and only after that point commit some heavier firepower towards taking him out.

[Sly]

Bolters. Dump cheap firepower at him until he fails a Grounding Test, then light him up with missiles, autocannons, and assault cannons. He's pretty fragile for his points, but once he can "hide" in CC, you don't get to take advantage of his fragility as he murders everything in clobbering range.

[Caitsidhe]

All of you are assuming that the Daemon Prince is Swooping. I can tell you, since I play that particular configuration, that I rarely Swoop. I spend my time on the ground jumping from Ruin to Ruin and just settle for the 2+ save. I don't like the 1 in 3 chance of falling out of the air and taking a high STR hit. Gliding is more than effective enough for a Daemon Prince of Nurgle. I agree that VOLUME of fire will do the job whether he is on the ground or in the air, but the OP already knows he can do it that way. He is looking for a work around. I'm still waiting to hear which army he places so I can offer something specific. It is worth noting that Heavy Flamers ignore cover.

[DeadPanda]

Here is my usual Space marine list

Vulkan He'stan

2 tactical squads with ML and Flamer

Sniper scouts behind Aegis with Telion and quad gun

Assault Terminators TH/SS

Storm Talon with TLLC

1 Mortis Contemptor with Kheres and ML

Dev Squad x 4 plasma.

I usually castle up and play denied flank and shoot the **** out of anything that comes my way and have my Terminators and Vulcan deal with anyone gets too close. But that prince is terrifying once in my lines.

I have access to lots of marine units so can add or take stuff. :)

[Caitsidhe]

Your standard list isn't in good shape. It suffices to say that I would eat you for lunch. The standard list you give doesn't have the tools (short of shooting the entire army at the DP) to do the job. Can you list what kinds of units to which you have access specifically? Dealing with a Daemon Prince like my Krampus is a pain because he is the original Glass Cannon. Vindicators are nice (although they won't ignore my cover) because any failure is Instant Death. Vindicators are also good because they give you lots of options and use against nearly any list. Any high strength weapons you have which ignore cover go a long way. It might also be good to take another look at the Psychic powers as there are several maledictions which are useful.

[DeadPanda]

I can field anything you recommend really, If I don't have it I can get it :)
I have Landraiders of all variety, Marneus Calgar, Vindicators, Libby with thunder shield in TDA, Lascannons Dev squad, Storm Raven, Las Plas Predators. All manner of stuff really. Like I said if I don't have it I can always get it either by borrowing or buying. I'm in the process of starting a new marine army so nothings out as I just sold of a huge Necron army and some other bits. I usually don't have too many problems with my gunline style of play, sure I get beaten sometimes and I don't mind that but this MC of yours has me stumped. I know it's bad *** and it should be for the points. But having a credible idea to deal with it would be nice.
Thanks to everyone who answered so far, I will make sure I have plenty of bolters in my army to bring the bugger down, just need to finish him off.

[DWest]

Sternguard especially will ruin Krampy's day - Hellfire rounds are still 2+ to wound no matter what the other guy packs on. Even swooping, a 10-man Sternguard squad will put ~2 wounds on him a turn. And if they catch him in rapid fire range on the ground, well, flu season is cancelled.

Also, if you're running Vulkan, a good squad in general is 10 Sternguard, 2 heavy flamers and 5 combi-meltas in a Drop Pod with the V-man himself. Plop that down on the other side of the field turn 1 and things start dying.

[Nabterayl]

Along the lines of the sternguard question, does the prince in question usually run with power armor? If not, dragonfire bolts will sometimes yield better results than hellfire.

[DeadPanda]

I think I may have found a model who can go toe to toe with this Daemon Prince

Bray'arth Ashmantle. Expensive maybe but this Dreadnought is tough as old boots. Disallows any weapons or CC attacks that gain extra dice, to use them. This includes Melta, Lance, Rending and Monstrous Creatures attacks. Armour 13. I am thinking if I stick him in a drop pod and use him to cause mary hell in my opponents back field this will force him to drag his prince back to deal with him. Chuck in my assault terminators and I think this could be an answer.

[Houghten]

Monstrous Creatures don't automatically get extra penetration dice any more, not since the fall of 5th.

A regular Ironclad will fight him just as well as Ashmantle, and be cheaper.

Speaking of cheaper, Sternguard with hellfire rounds are nice, but Scouts with sniper rifles may be able to do the same job faster thanks to their longer range.

[Tynskel]

Sniper Drones. However, you could also use Missile Broadsides.

[DeadPanda]

Sniper Drones. However, you could also use Missile Broadsides.

Sorry mate, marines only. No xeno scum :)

[Caitsidhe]

Does your opponent go with the DP tricked out with Nurgle/Biomancy? If so, the easiest counter to the DP is to have GK allies. You don't need much. You just want the plane for the Mindstrike missiles. There is no cover from effect they have on Psykers. Also the one unit of them stuck in cover will go before the DP if he charges them. He will suffer instant death from even one wound.

[Da Gargoyle]

Get one of your trusty infantry men, give him a back pack and send him on a errand to the unit accross the way. It will be like a mouse to a cat. When the "evil SOB" swoops in on the unfortunate soldier, detonate the melta bomb you hid in his backpack.

[Da Gargoyle]

Now I realise the more sensitive of you will be horrified at such callous treatment of a member of your army, but let us look at it logically. Orks are expected to do this with squigs and grots. I have never met a Commissar that did not use volunteers. Space marines have always been to keen for there own good and with Tau it's for the greater good. Dark eldar will do it for the laugh. Eldar will convince the Dark Eldar to do it for a laugh and Tyranids will say, "It's what I do". Perhaps you could whisper in the ear of the chaos dude and tell him it will leave a gap for promotion if he does it.

[Nabterayl]

I think I may have found a model who can go toe to toe with this Daemon Prince
If it's just a question of going toe to toe, Lysander will wreck his day pretty reliably too. Especially if he's running with a squad to get some Moral Support re-rolls, the odds of a black mace prince beating Lysander in a duel are pretty slim.

[phreakachu]

Pledge your immortal soul to nurgle.

[Sigmaril]

Does your opponent go with the DP tricked out with Nurgle/Biomancy? If so, the easiest counter to the DP is to have GK allies. You don't need much. You just want the plane for the Mindstrike missiles. There is no cover from effect they have on Psykers. Also the one unit of them stuck in cover will go before the DP if he charges them. He will suffer instant death from even one wound.

Mind Strike Missiles are Blast, Arent they? Not very effective if he flies....

Fun story from last night: I was playing my CSM (with such a Nurgle DP) against Tau Allied with IG, an extremely troop heavy army, at 1999pts. My DP flew towards his mandatory ADL, fully expecting to be shot Down, but allowing the rest of my army to advance more or less unharmed. First off, none of his marker lights hit, then he proceeded to fire every single gun in his army at him. A total of approximately 140 shots. He finally failed his grounding test at the second to last volley, and when all was said and done, my DP had lost 3 Wounds, one of which was from the fall. Suffice to say that my opponent was NOT satisfied :-)

[Caitsidhe]

Mind Strike Missiles are Blast, Arent they? Not very effective if he flies....

True but knocking a Flying MOnstrous Creature out of the air is pretty simple. There is a 1 in 3 chance they fall out of the sky (even when not hurt for some reason) every time someone shoots them and hits at least once. This means that three units (even with Bolters) shooting at it will score at least one six and then statistically it hits the ground and you can plaster it with templates and even assault it. Chances are it will take a wound hitting the ground and then more from the Mindstrike Missiles.


Fun story from last night: I was playing my CSM (with such a Nurgle DP) against Tau Allied with IG, an extremely troop heavy army, at 1999pts. My DP flew towards his mandatory ADL, fully expecting to be shot Down, but allowing the rest of my army to advance more or less unharmed. First off, none of his marker lights hit, then he proceeded to fire every single gun in his army at him. A total of approximately 140 shots. He finally failed his grounding test at the second to last volley, and when all was said and done, my DP had lost 3 Wounds, one of which was from the fall. Suffice to say that my opponent was NOT satisfied :-)

Technically even the Marker Lights should have have made you test. The only thing that protected you was the hand of God because you should fail one in three tests and if he fired all his units at you I'm sure you had to take at least three to six tests. :) Your opponent should be less than satisfied with your very good (and his very bad) luck.

[Sigmaril]

Technically even the Marker Lights should have have made you test. The only thing that protected you was the hand of God because you should fail one in three tests and if he fired all his units at you I'm sure you had to take at least three to six tests. :) Your opponent should be less than satisfied with your very good (and his very bad) luck.
Our rolls were a long shot away from "statistical average". I rolled A LOT of 3+'s, and I really do mean a lot! And he did roll quite a few 6's less than could be expected. Even his 2 Riptides with Skyfire only made one hit combined, to no effect :-)
In the end, he won anyway, due to First Blood/Warlord Kill/LineBreaker, and me only getting Warlord Kill/LineBreaker, and neither of us able to secure the Relic, but it was a really close call.