Ravenwing, by Gav Thorpe

[Jmaximum]

Almost half way through, and I must say it is a good read, but I am a little confuse about a couple things: Apparently Grand Master Sammael of the Ravenwing is also part of the Inner Circle. But the book makes it sound like both the chaplains and Librarians know more of the chapter secrets than he does. Yet, he is the one responsible for hunting the Fallen and bringing them back to The Rock.









***************************Potential Spoilers****************************************** *******












On pages 109-110, there is a quote from Chaplain Boreas's log: "Walk the dark road through the rooms of the interrogators, past the catacombs, into the deepest chambers. Go to the solitary cell at the heart of the Rock and tell him this: you were not wrong." I have seen this line of text before, in a really, REALLY old Dark Angels short story, circa Rogue Trader/2nd edition. It was story about how a Dark Angels Captain during the heresy, fighting on a low grav asteroid, was blown into space, and put himself into suspended animation. He was subsequently picked up and taken as one of the Fallen, and I believe the story ends with the interrogator saying almost the same exact words as above.
For that matter, in Ravenwing, who is Boreas referencing is this deep dark cell?

[Nabterayl]

Luthor, I assume. He's the guy they have locked up in there according to the latest codex.

[Dalleron]

Sammael is a member of the inner circle, as he's a company master. His status alone makes him a member. It was that way for the past two codex's. Well current and previous. The inner working of the "inner circle" are convoluted to say the least. Perhaps the libby and chappy think they know more than him and they don't. Knowledge of the secrets appears based on what level the member is in the circle.

And the man in the cell is most likely Luthor. I also don't recall Boreas being an Interrogator Chaplain, which would mean he isn't inner circle going by the new book. Which could be explained by the book coming out before the new codex, if I'm correct.

[musical-fool]

From what I have understood, the Inner Circle all know about the Fallen. HOwever, the interrogations are only ever done by the interro-chaplains and on occaisions librarians assist. The darker secrets of the DA are kept by only a handful, noticeably Grand Master Azrael, Keeper of Secrets Ezekiel and the interrogator-chappies because the last lot learn all sorts of secrets from the Fallen and they have the burden of not leting this information (read as these truths) becoming common knowledge within the Chapter and without. This is what is discussed by Boreas's message/confession.

One thing I was extremely disappointed with is the fact that they retconned the entire idea of the Ravenwing members living and breathing with their steeds from the very induction to the chapter. Even Sammael was not a member of the Ravenwing before becoming Master of the 2nd Co. but was in the Deathwing! That makes no blooming sense to me what so ever.

There are other things that I thought were poorly done later on in the book but as Jmaximum hasn't got that far I will not discuss right now :D

[Dalleron]

Living and breathing with their horse is totally different than a huge motorcycle.

That samael bit is just daft unless you take the new codex into account. Which came later.

[bfmusashi]

I thought only the head of the chapter could see Luther, but my Dark Angels fluff-fu is weak.

[phoenix01]

Potential Spoilers


















On pages 109-110, there is a quote from Chaplain Boreas's log: "Walk the dark road through the rooms of the interrogators, past the catacombs, into the deepest chambers. Go to the solitary cell at the heart of the Rock and tell him this: you were not wrong." I have seen this line of text before, in a really, REALLY old Dark Angels short story, circa Rogue Trader/2nd edition. It was story about how a Dark Angels Captain during the heresy, fighting on a low grav asteroid, was blown into space, and put himself into suspended animation. He was subsequently picked up and taken as one of the Fallen, and I believe the story ends with the interrogator saying almost the same exact words as above.
For that matter, in Ravenwing, who is Boreas referencing is this deep dark cell?

The passage references Merir Astelan, former Company Master and fallen Angel. He is in a cell across the hall from Luther. The book in question is Angel of Darkness by Gav Thorpe. Astelan accuses Lion'El Jonson of opportunism, awaiting to see who would win the Heresy and declaring for that side. He claims that Luther and the Terran-born Dark Angels, like himself, are shunned by the Lion and treated as traitors, that Luthor was the good guy and loyal to the Emperor, while the Lion had forsaken his oaths. Since Astelan refuses to recant/repent, Grand Master Chaplain Sapphon has Astelan spared and locked up with Luther indefinitely. Boreas was an Interrogator Chaplain: he led the questioning of Astelan. After it was clear that Boreas and his team of Dark Angels would die, he records that message, realizing that the problem that the Dark Angels have always had is their secrets and the willingness to kill to keep them.

[Power Klawz]

Sammael HAD to serve in the deathwing prior to being elevated to company master, I don't think that precludes him from serving in the Ravenwing earlier in his career. The only way to make rank in the Dark Angels is to join the inner circle, and the first step into the inner circle is the deathwing.

[Jmaximum]

Sammael is a member of the inner circle, as he's a company master. His status alone makes him a member. It was that way for the past two codex's. Well current and previous. The inner working of the "inner circle" are convoluted to say the least. Perhaps the libby and chappy think they know more than him and they don't. Knowledge of the secrets appears based on what level the member is in the circle.

And the man in the cell is most likely Luthor. I also don't recall Boreas being an Interrogator Chaplain, which would mean he isn't inner circle going by the new book. Which could be explained by the book coming out before the new codex, if I'm correct.


They have had Luthor in there for 10,000 years? Didn't Luthor never make it to full Astartes, wasn't he still mostly human? how in the world is he still alive.
And in the book Boreas is mentioned as an Interrogator-Chaplain.

Gotcha, so take who says they know what as truth with a grain of salt.

Thank you Musical for your consideration, and thank you Phoenix for the reference.

I am sure I have seen the quote in a really old book, maybe back in the Galaxy Burns compilation? I know it was a weird story where this DA Captain gets blown off into space from an asteroid, and uses the last of his suit's energy to keep himself in suspended animation. Ultimately, Im pretty sure that same quote was at the end of this other story (during the story the interrogator-Chaplain begins to doubt his purpose). Maybe it is Angel of Darkness.

[Dalleron]

True Luthor was never made a space marine, but he was enhanced to almost that level. And if he was further augmented by chaos as the previous DA codex says, then it may be possible. Who knows what the Dark angels have down there in the Rock. They could toss him in stasis for periods of time, while the supreme grand master is away and not visiting him.