Heavy Support and/or Elite: WTF?

[Panxer]

Ok, I'm doing some comparison shopping for Heavy support choices and seeing some discrepancies with points per unit vs. shots fired/turn vs. effectiveness...over say, the Riptide.

Points Comparison:

Riptide+x2 Shielded missiles drones, Ion Accelerator, and SMS = 235pts. Acts as a heavy, but takes up an elite slot, and functions as a super tough, JSJ Ion tank or Anti-infantry platform. Heavy rate of fire, multiple loadouts, very tough. very mobile. No instant death.

Ion/Hammer Head Tank: w/o the bells and whistles + SMS = 125 pts. Standard Tank Heavy slot. Anti-tank/infantry platform. Relatively low rate of fire, 3 HP, Dis-pod grants Jink+1 to cover (4+ cover for moving)

XV88 Broadside, team of 2 + Drone controllers + Shas'Vre + 6 missile drones, all with Missile configuration (SMS+High yield Missiles) = 301 pts. Highest rate of fire (12 missile pod shots from drones + 24 TL shots from the 88's = 36 shots /turn)

So, I don't know what to think of this. Heavy rail rifles are kind of so-what now... Missile 88's are nasty but are all S5AP5, and suck up almost all of your Heavy points for a single unit, the RIPtide is a non-instant death elite choice which I could replace and load up with suits, and hammerhead's Ion gun is awesome but can't defeat much in the way of heavy armor.

Is it just me, or is the new dex a bit wobbly in parts, and does it seem that all the anti-armor capabilities have been shifted away from heavy support and lumped largely into the HQ and Elite choices?

I await your thoughts

[Sly]

XV88s are only okay on their own. But put in a Commander with the Tank Hunter, Twin-Link, and Ignore Cover upgrades. And a Drone controller plus a Drone (or two), if you run an ADL with a Quad-Gun (and with this setup, you should). Now, the Commander doesn't shoot, but the XV88s get Tank Hunter + Ignore Cover when firing at vehicles. That's so killy that you're almost compelled to give them Target Lock, or you're overkill against a lot of vehicles. The Missile Drones don't get the BS5 from the Drone Controller, but do get to twin-link and get Tank Hunter, which makes them probably the best point-for-point armor killing unit in the game up to AV 13. Even the Quad Gun goes from pretty good to vicious, since the Drone firing it gets BS5, and it gets Ignore Cover/Tank Hunter.

Oh, and if you hit the primary target with a single ML first, those Missile Drones are BS3/twin-linked/tank hunter.

The Broadsides are not that dominant on their own, but the fact that they concentrate all of that firepower into a single squad that can split fire 4 different ways and still get the buffs from the Commander makes them dominant with him. Even with his points added in (about 200), it's worth it... that single squad puts out comparable anti-tank firepower to what some armies put out in their entire list.

[mathhammer]

Is it just me, or is the new dex a bit wobbly in parts, and does it seem that all the anti-armor capabilities have been shifted away from heavy support and lumped largely into the HQ and Elite choices?

I await your thoughts

It appears that the elite slots are more significant in the Xenos armies than the imperium armies. It really got rolling in the tyranid codex and has strengthened from there. (ergo design goal).

[Tyrendian]

... that single squad puts out comparable anti-tank firepower to what some armies put out in their entire list.
and costs more than most armies spend on anti-tank... so yeah...

[Sly]

and costs more than most armies spend on anti-tank... so yeah...

Wait, that's only 500 or so points, 600 with the Aegis Line, which most gunline armies at least consider. That's more than most armies spend on fire support? It's useful against Flyers since all attacks are twin-linked, it's useful against infantry if you go with Missile-sides (40 twin-linked shots with Ignore Cover work against a lot of infantry units, especially the lower-armor horde units). It's general fire-support, and especially good against tanks, not like taking pure Lascannons or Multi-meltas, which are really poor against most infantry.

And unless you're running a very CC-oriented list, you'll likely take more than 600 points of general fire support. Most armies may not spend 600 points on dedicated anti-tank units (ie: melta or lascannons), but given that it works against everything other than AV14, it's worth the points. As long as the list can support/use a static firepower unit in the center of the table, of course.

[Tyrendian]

that's true - with missiles it's another story, i was thinking of the "classic" 88s, don't ask me why... with full missiles that unit is a threat to anything beneath a LR or Monolith... still, it's a lot of eggs in one basket, although Tau are a bit harder to tie up in combat than your regular shooty army due to supporting fire...