Genesis of a Chapter

[Chapter Master Jake]

I am planning on creating my first ever, full blown, fleshed out Space Marine chapter but I'm having difficulty with it on several fronts.

The core concepts I'm having trouble with is theme and rulebook choice. I know how I want to play but I'm not sure about the rulebook that would suit those needs better. I also have several themes in mind but I can't really pick one over another because they're all cool.

As for how I want to play I know I want to use the orbital assault tactic. I love the idea of an entire company of space marines roaring through the atmosphere in drop pods or in Thunder Hawks and Stormravens, to bring death from anywhere on the battlefield. Of course I will need to employ the Scout Company for homing beacons, naturally.

As for the themes, I've perused several chapter codices and backgrounds over several months, spending about 100 bucks on the Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, and from a while ago, my Space Marines codex. I grew particularly fond of the Blood Angels methods of war, the Space Wolves methods of war, and the Raven Guard's methods of war which spawned three themes that I truly enjoy.

The themes themselves are based on the potential chapter backgrounds for my successor chapter. For a successor using the Blood Angels codex, there would be a very spartan-esque feel for the background, a chapter of battle-loving, noble, warrior-folk who, like the Minotaurs chapter would be very assault oriented and styled after the Mediterranean armies. The young children are taken from their families who are genetically screened for markers of greatness, bringing great honor to the family and their village of their rocky, island homeworld.

The Space Wolves codex would be my starting point for a more barbaric chapter, who's warriors are all garbed in Mark V-type armor because of their lack of support for decades at a time from the Adeptus Mechanicus. These warrior-brothers live on a massive rocky death world within a huge mountaintop fortress. The idea is basically drawn from the successor chapter the Carcharodons Astra. The chapter draws from tribal people that live in the lofty cave systems of the planet, who's offspring are from particularly great warriors and hunters. Those men who manage to slay the ferocious, predatory alien birds that inhabit the planet's many mountain systems.

The Space Marines codex gave me a bunch of ideas but as I am interested in the White Scars and Raven Guard, and so the third idea I like is a more traditional chapter, easier to work with, and basically just a cherry-pick of aspects from both of those chapters to make my own. My least favorite idea but if all else fails, stick to what is known.

I also wanted to make it known that I have a 4th interest in an entirely different idea, just not one I know much about. I have taken an interest in the past with the Salamanders and Imperial Fists, with their siege and close-quarters firefight tactics. I also am a huge fan of Terminator squads and artificer armor. If anyone could maybe persuade me in this direction, I'd appreciate it as well. The idea I did have was a chapter that sort of resembled the Salamanders, with a preference to close quarters firefights and like the Imperial Fists, a healthy fascination with heavy weaponry such as Vindicator and Whirlwind tanks, and the Thunderfire cannon.

All in all, some council would be most appreciated. Maybe ask some questions to help me pin things down? All help is appreciated!

[Nabterayl]

It sounds like you have a few different things pulling at you here - which playstyle you want, which models you want to collect, and which backstory you like best. Do you have a sense of how you prioritize those for yourself?

Also, I'm curious about your White Scars/Raven Guard concept, and how it ties into a "more traditional chapter, easier to work with." Which part of that makes it your least favorite idea? If it's the idea of a more traditional chapter that is easier to work with, I don't think either of those are intrinsically tied to "White Scars/Raven Guard." I'm not quite sure which aspects of those chapters appeal to you the most, but you could easily create a White Scars-ish, Raven Guard-ish chapter that is basically the Night Lords. As the 6th edition rulebook points out, "traditional" space marine chapters are anything but nice or easy to work with. There are exceptions, but by and large space marines are not nice people.

[Wolfshade]

I'd go with Blood Angels as they are the best.

More seriously, they will allow you to do your massed orbital insertion, they could allow you to do your artificier armoured troops, and terminators. With the assault squads being able to take two special weapons you can get that short ranged fire fight goodness sorted as well. They are also beneath it all, codex compliant so you can still do all the regular codex SM stuff, though no thunderfire cannon.

[Camael]

I think The Ambit did a mixture Raven Guard and White Scars type army called the Night Hawks which was pretty cool.

[Chapter Master Jake]

The White Scars and Raven Guard are what I would call new age type chapters, using stealth and speed rather than sheer brute force to win battles, wars, and even entire campaigns. The White Scars mongol warrior culture and the Raven Guard's mysterious "black knight" style culture are very attractive cultures. The thing is though, these chapters are still tied to the codex in most aspects, including their ties to the days of the Horus Heresy.

As for the Blood Angels, I view their culture as very perfectionist-like. Each and every warrior hones their skills beyond that of necessity, like the Spartans of old. As for the Space Wolves, I view their culture pretty much how it is, as a barbaric army of space marine vikings seeking glory, legend, and battle.

In truth, I am being pulled different ways which is why this thread exists. I know one thing entirely for sure and that is I want to make my own chapter with my own characters, culture, and tactics. I don't really have any priorities beyond starting something epic, :D. I know eventually I'm going to buy a battleforce, a tactical squad and a Space Marine Commander to start my new army. I guess that's a start.

[GrauGeist]

@Jake - IMO, you need to sit down and simply commit to picking something. Get off the pot!

Codex?
You say you want that "Orbital Assault", which probably means Deep-Striking Assault Marines as Troops, everything else in Drop Pods. This is actually helpful because it eliminates Space Wolves and Dark Angels entirely, along with White Scars. You are down to Blood Angels (focusing on HtH Assaults) and Raven Guard (drop close and shoot). You say you want warrior themes, which is more Blood Angels, than Raven Guard. Codex: Blood Angels

Models?
Model-wise, it is tough to get a lot of mk.5 armor, but you would probably do better to build everything with basic SM stuff, rather than the "exotic" Blood Angels Death Company / Sanguinary Guard stuff. Minimize the Bikes and Tanks - just have more guys for HtH fighting. Strongly consider getting a box or two of Space Wolves to sprinkle Viking warrior bitz & pieces across your various units. regular Space Marine models

Backstory?
If you at least know what your army will look like, and how it will play, you can work with that. But first you need to put a marker down and make some decisions.

Good luck!
____

BTW, there is a very good article on making a Chapter on Bolter & Chainsword. Google it.

[Chapter Master Jake]

@Jake - IMO, you need to sit down and simply commit to picking something. Get off the pot!

Codex?
You say you want that "Orbital Assault", which probably means Deep-Striking Assault Marines as Troops, everything else in Drop Pods. This is actually helpful because it eliminates Space Wolves and Dark Angels entirely, along with White Scars. You are down to Blood Angels (focusing on HtH Assaults) and Raven Guard (drop close and shoot). You say you want warrior themes, which is more Blood Angels, than Raven Guard. Codex: Blood Angels

Models?
Model-wise, it is tough to get a lot of mk.5 armor, but you would probably do better to build everything with basic SM stuff, rather than the "exotic" Blood Angels Death Company / Sanguinary Guard stuff. Minimize the Bikes and Tanks - just have more guys for HtH fighting. Strongly consider getting a box or two of Space Wolves to sprinkle Viking warrior bitz & pieces across your various units. regular Space Marine models

Backstory?
If you at least know what your army will look like, and how it will play, you can work with that. But first you need to put a marker down and make some decisions.

Good luck!
____

BTW, there is a very good article on making a Chapter on Bolter & Chainsword. Google it.

Wow, that's possibly the most helpful thread I've experienced on a forum... ever... :eek: mind blown...

So, Codex: Blood Angels as a starting point for army building, customize standard Space Marine figures with the look I'd like to achieve, and then I'm free to write lore as I see fit. :D

Perhaps I do not have to do "spartans in space" but a different look altogether, but that comes later. Also, I am on Bolter & Chainsword (Lornak Bloodgreed) and I have several threads on the subject there as well. I just wanted a new perspective.

[Dalleron]

I have to disagree with Grau. ANY space marine chapter can do an orbital assault theme army. Even the lowly BT can, as I think their Drop pods have Drop pod assault rule now. Yes, even Dark Angels, and Grey Knights. Termie heavy army deep striking, and not scattering available to both armies.

The OP's issue comes where he can't decide how fighty he wants to be, as it strikes me. I don't think any SM chapter would be that varied in its practise of fighting wars. He should pick a style and base his models off what he wants. To that end, I think Space Wolves make the best rule set for the chapter. Good at shooty and in your face bashy-ness. After that Blood Angels would be a good bet as well, not far behind them in the scheme of things. Regular space marines offer the best models for the job IMO, as they have all the required bits and are not extreme in either way, unless you like a particular codex's general look over another.

[Chapter Master Jake]

Grau and Dalleron, you both offer great points. Perhaps I'm actually being too narrow in just wanting a chapter to specialize in orbital assault?

I just like that facet of the space marines more-so than most but as I said I am also fond of siege specialists like the Imperial Fists as well as the close-quarter firefights of the Salamanders.

The point I guess you're both making is I can't decide how I want to fight so maybe I shouldn't just yet. Maybe I should pick a name, badge, colors, and work on the lore then go from there. Since really all chapters can generally do average-to-better shooting and more-than-average assault, it really comes down TO the background of the chapter to make it mine.

I was told by my local hobby store owner (non-games workshop) that right now, in this current edition of WH40K and the codices involved that the Space Wolves are the name in power armored close combat and have a nasty ranged trick in the form of Long Fangs while the Blood Angel units are more expensive and there-for more costly to achieve the same result. He said they can do an orbital assault if I wanted to but their key strategy is tanks and jump assault deep strikes. He also said that Codex: Space Marines is the place to go for more shootier lists of course, with access to the Thunderfire Cannon and cheaper devastator upgrades. I dunno... I should mention that I haven't any real game experience so I can't really tell if cheaper units are any compensation for special rules and vice versa, or what play style best suits my train of thought.

I'd LIKE to get into close combat and start ripping people apart but at the same time I MIGHT be surprised by the shooting power of the Space Marines as well. I suppose this is the curse of being tactically flexible, you can do everything but not very well. :P

[Wolfshade]

Have you considered having an allies list so you can do a bit of both, paint it all up your chosen colour with relevant heraldy but play Space Woves allied with Blood Angels, for instance?

[Chapter Master Jake]

Have you considered having an allies list so you can do a bit of both, paint it all up your chosen colour with relevant heraldy but play Space Woves allied with Blood Angels, for instance?

Not something I'm going to consider actually, the idea is just added complications that I don't want to deal with. Just my preference.

[GrauGeist]

@Dalleron - the OP was asking for advice of how to narrow the huge breadth of space marines down to something specific he can get started on, and I took a stab at doing just that. Opening it back up to a much broader selection doesn't help him if the point is to pick something. OTOH, arguing for Space Wolves rules as a specific alternative to Blood Angels rules probably does help. It's probably helpful that we're both suggesting C: BA or C: SW rules and standard SM models with lots of HtH fighters.

@Jake - It would not hurt to have a couple of podded Dreadnoughts and/or Vindicators to fulfill your "siege" role, and these might be things you add after you've gotten your basic orbital assault combat force together. As you're coming in new, either BA or SW rules will suit your needs just fine, especially if you stay away from the expensive, exotic stuff.

[Chapter Master Jake]

I could do that surely, taking Dreads in DP's and Vindies in pairs. I think I'm pretty set on using the Blood Angels codex mostly because of my idea how to bend their special rules to my favor through lore.

In particular I think the chapter will come along fine as soon as I nail these things down. I already have a few color schemes and names for things in mind, I'm just wondering if the Blood Angel codex will continue to be an acceptable source for inspiration because of their special units and weapons, namely the baal pred, furioso dread, hand flamers, and Infernus Pistols. These things that it is said the Blood Angels and their successors, and ONLY the Blood Angels and their successors possess in any capacity.

[GrauGeist]

BA are a "safe" Codex. Baal Preds, Furioso Dreads, hand flamers & infernus pistols have all been tooled with permanent metal molds, so they're not disappearing any time soon. Plus, you have the flying tank.

The key thing is that you've made a decision on Codex rules, so you can build from there. Follow the plan!

[Chapter Master Jake]

One thing that has gotten me down in the recent past is the loss of upgradeable power armor, a.k.a. artificer armor. Only in C:SW can we still take a 2+ save armor upgrade while C: BA, DA, and I am assuming the new vanilla SM codex will all have that option absent. It was the same for C: CSM, with Fleshmetal being available only to Obliterators and Mutilators rather than to lords and sorcerers as well.

Personally, I wanted to make my chapter master with Artificer Armor, a Jump Pack, a Boltgun (angelus mounted), and a Thunder Hammer but I can't really do that. :(

My chapter is going to be a band of charcoal grey armored tribal warriors called the "Sable Hawks" after the predatory birds that inhabit their mountainous homeworld. I'm going to keep the scheme and symbol simple because of my inherent noobility with painting.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/sm.php?bpe=282828&bpj=aaaaaa&bp=282828&bpc=aaaaaa&hdt=282828&hdm=282828&hdl=282828&ey=0ab40a&er=282828&pip=aaaaaa&nk=282828&ch=282828&eg=aaaaaa&sk=aaaaaa&abs=282828&bt=282828&cod=282828&ull=282828&lk=282828&lll=282828&lft=282828&url=282828&rk=282828&lrl=282828&rft=282828&slt=282828&sli=aaaaaa&srt=282828&sri=aaaaaa&ula=282828&lel=282828&lla=282828&lw=282828&lh=282828&ura=282828&rel=282828&rla=282828&rw=282828&rh=282828&gr=aaaaaa&rb=aaaaaa&nkl=282828&chestl=282828&abdl=282828&hdtl=282828&hdml=282828&hdll=282828&btl=282828&codl=282828&erl=282828&bpl=282828&bpjl=aaaaaa&bpel=282828&bpcl=aaaaaa&abdc=aaaaaa&bg=FFFFFF&grid=TRUE&beta=&version=&

[GrauGeist]

Artificer Armor / Chaos Armor has largely gone away except on specific Special Characters. This is fine - it becomes appropriately rare and unique across *all* Codices and armies, versus something that everybody takes because they can.

Blood Angels have nearly a half-dozen Characters with Jump Packs, most of which are extra strong, ignore regular power armor *and* wear Artificer Armor -- they are very close to what you want, so just pick one to play as! ;)

Sounds like a good plan.

Nice, go for it!

[Chapter Master Jake]

Artificer Armor / Chaos Armor has largely gone away except on specific Special Characters. This is fine - it becomes appropriately rare and unique across *all* Codices and armies, versus something that everybody takes because they can.

It also adds to my disdain for named special characters... my severe disdain. I'm in favor of generic characters that I can create and play how I like rather than taking special characters for the sake of cheese rules like Unyielding Will, The Sanguinor's Blessing, and Avenging Angel for The Sanguinor. Or perhaps on the flip side, Dante's Death Mask of Sanguinius, Tactical Precision, Sugical Strike, and a Master Crafted power weapon as well... I'd prefer we be able to choose things like that, making our own special characters with nice rules with equivalent points cost for those special rules. Like 50 Points for a master crafted weapon, 25 Points for Artificer Armor, 25 Points for "Tactical Precision" and "Avenging Angel" for another 15 Points.


Blood Angels have nearly a half-dozen Characters with Jump Packs, most of which are extra strong, ignore regular power armor *and* wear Artificer Armor -- they are very close to what you want, so just pick one to play as! ;)

Well, half of a half-dozen characters with Jump Packs, and yes, are "special" because they have rules no one else can have. *blah*


Sounds like a good plan.

Nice, go for it!

I certainly will go for it, although I'm looking at fully deployed army pictures of Raven Guard and Black Legion, and I'm realizing that black is a very bland, over used color more-so than I originally thought. SO, back to the paint easel for me!

[GrauGeist]

You can always rename a Special Character. Some stuff in the 40k Universe really is so rare that only a single such item might be available in any given Chapter, reserved for a single, honorary user.

Off the top of my head, Mephiston flies, and so do Dante, Lemartes, Sanguinor and Astaroth. Not sure if there are even more.

You missed Black Templars, which are equally easy to paint. Enjoy the painter - it's a great tool.

[Kyban]

You can always rename a Special Character.
I look at SCs as a chance to build my own fluff around the rules and create a custom model for them, not everyone's cup of tea but I think it gives them more flavor than just another HQ decked out differently.

[GrauGeist]

I look at SCs as a chance to build my own fluff around the rules and create a custom model for them, not everyone's cup of tea but I think it gives them more flavor than just another HQ decked out differently.

I like it, too. "Plays like Mephiston" is easy to explain to the opponent, and you get to stick with your theme and models.

[Chapter Master Jake]

- Dramatic Directional Change -

I have been thinking for over an hour now and I have decided to change the idea completely. I have decided to change my chapter and codex over to the Lion Warriors using the Space Wolves codex.

The reason I have done this is I have decided to take more drop pods and terminators than storm hawks and assault marines.

As for my idea, I'm going to take the Lion Warriors chapter and make it entirely my own. I am inspired greatly by the feel of the Space Wolves codex and the look of more Imperialistic marines, like the Ultramarines and the Imperial Fists. What I'm going to do is to create a young chapter, of the latest founding, the 26th. This chapter's homeworld lies on the border of Segmentum Tempestus and Segmentum Ultima in the Clawris system. Their homeworld is an agri world called Clawris Prime, a world of golden fields of grain and wild hinterlands that are home to the chapter's and the system's prized beasts, the Felis Leonis Maximus, prides of great hay-colored lions nearly half again as tall as a man. The chapter fortress known as Pride Hold is located in the center of the vast valley of the hinterlands within a colossal mesa. Chapter Master Jacob Leonoir commands the chapter's 5 prides from this fortress. The 5 prides (or companies) are over sized formations each with a specific role.

1st Company, called the Elder Pride are the chapter's veterans who are most often garbed in terminator armor. This is the smallest company, numbering around 100 members at a time but includes the entirety of the chapter's dreadnoughts as well.

The 2nd Company, called the Great Pride are the chapter's core of tactical marines, numbering in the hundreds, around 600 battle brothers at any time. This is the largest company.

The 3rd Company, called the Mesa Pride consists of the chapter's core of Devastator squads and their Armory. The Devastators number around 100 members while the Armory is commanded by the Master of the Forge and his brother techmarines. This is the third largest company therein.

The 4th Company, called the Savage Pride, consists of the chapter's core of Assault squads and the entirety of the chapter's bikes and land speeders. A single techmarine is permanently assigned to this company to oversee the maintenance of the vehicles.

The 5th Company, called the Young Pride, consists of the chapter's core of Scout squads and the chapter's Apothicarion, Librarium and Reclusiam. Being that this company normally operates independently of the chapter, blooding the scouts in battle, it is considered the second smallest company but it is also overseen by the Apothicarion, Librarium and Reclusiam. The members of these branches who when not engaged alongside the other companies are charged with overseeing the chapter's future and work closely with one another while doing so, this company does not have a captain and is at the discretion of the Chief Librarian. The Chief Librarian is also the chief tactical adviser to the chapter master during campaigns.

The Chapter also has an informal group of chapter serfs who are in charge of the capture, augmentation, and management of the War Lions in the beast pens where they keep the chapter's War Lions. It is a rare occasion that the War Lions are used as it is considered tactically unnecessary but the chapter's warriors consider it a great honor to ride these augmented beasts to battle in shock assaults meant for demoralizing the enemy opposition.

Now.. if that isn't cool, than I don't care because I think I love this idea.

I can't wait to start converting models with lion pelts, manes, and tails as well as converting Lufgt Huron to fit Logan Grimnar's profile, with a Power Axe and wrist-mounted storm bolter. I'm going to forgo power swords and chainswords for power axes and chain axes as well. The Axe is going to be a central theme here because I love them, and I wonder if the war store has the lions from the White Lions of Chrace so I can convert those into War Lions?

Whaddayall think?

[Kyban]

Sounds awesome, I've seen someone with "Thunderlion cav" before and it worked really well. I'm not sure where he got the models though.

[Chapter Master Jake]

Is it possible for these guys to get away with such large company changes? I like the idea but I want to know if it's acceptable, and not warranting an unpleasant visit from the Inquisition.

[Kyban]

Is it possible for these guys to get away with such large company changes? I like the idea but I want to know if it's acceptable, and not warranting an unpleasant visit from the Inquisition.

It just means they're not codex compliant, I believe SWs use an unusual company set up. It's not uncommon for space marine chapters to get away with practices that the inquisition might prefer they avoid but for the most part the inquisition ignores it.

Though someone can correct me if I have the wrong impression here.

[Nabterayl]

I don't see why not. The Codex Astartes is just a treatise and war diary.* It isn't part of the Imperial Creed, or anything. If an infantry commander ignores Rommel's advice in Infantry Attacks on how to organize and fight an infantry company, that might call into question his judgment, but not his patriotism.

The Inquisition doesn't care about adherence to the codex per se; what it cares about is adherence to the overall Imperial system. Thus, it would be concerned about geneseed deviation (because the Imperium is for humans only, so you're not allowed in if you've mutated so much that you aren't homo sapiens anymore), excessive numbers of battle-brothers (because space marine chapters aren't supposed to be armies), excessive fleet size (because space marine chapters aren't supposed to be navies), and that sort of thing. A normal-sized chapter with normal interstellar strike capabilities, geneseed whose deviation is within normal bounds, whose military independence is within normal bounds, who cares for non-space marine casualties no less than usual, would not arouse the Inquisition's suspicion just because they happen to organize themselves differently.

[EDIT:]* Remember, the codex was written at the end of the galaxy's first interstellar war in living memory, by a successful practitioner of that war. It makes sense that somebody would want to write down the lessons learned on how to wage interstellar war, and it makes sense that that person's thoughts would carry weight for a long time. But it's not fundamentally different than similar real-world works like On War, Infantry Attacks, The Art of War, How to Survive under Siege, or countless others. Other Imperial organizations such as the Imperial Guard and the Adepta Sororitas look up to the codex as a military treatise, but not as part of what it means to be Imperial. Space marines are the weird ones ... imagine taking any given military treatise (say, Clausewitz's On War) and saying, "This is the greatest book that ever was or ever will be written about war." That's just bonkers.

[Chapter Master Jake]

Well, I personally am like the space wolves, I say the Inquisition can stuff that =][= right up their arse and let us work.

I am wondering how I'm going to paint these guys though, the Lion Warriors have a very rich yellow and it looks about the same as the Scythes of the Emperor and the Imperial Fists.

[Nabterayl]

I'm pretty sure all space marines are like that, except for the very unusual ones. Space Wolves are only sort of independent by space marine standards. They make more noise about being independent than most, but I think that's mostly with reference to other space marines. They care less about being "space marines" (as opposed to sons of Russ, specifically) than most space marines do. On the other hand, no organization that truly doesn't give a f*ck is as nice as Space Wolves. When it comes to independence from the Imperium, I don't think Space Wolves are especially unusual.

[Chapter Master Jake]

OOOOooo! Where did this model get those shoulders?! http://lh3.ggpht.com/_15ZcUYo-zaY/Swk-x022CII/AAAAAAAAB_A/znh9coW7wwI/Grey%20Knight%20Lion%20Grand%20Master%206.jpg?imgm ax=800 I smell the grounds for my Chapter Master!

[Dalleron]

If I had to guess about those shoulder pads, I'd offer they are Astral Claws shoulder pads from Forge World. I was going to suggest those to you since you're going with a lion theme.

I didn't see any one point it out, but artificer armour is available to any Space marine Captain or their equivalent, outside of CSM. It isn't available to most chaplains or libby's, unless their 'painted red' and a special character. It strikes me as odd that Blood Angels can't take artificer armour on a captain. DA now have the option, as do vanilla marines. I believe the Templars still have it, and the SW have their runic armour.

[GrauGeist]

The renaming of things isn't an issue. You can call your Companies whatever you like and use whatever wargear you have, as long as you pay lip service to the Codex Astartes: 100 Veterans/Terminators, 600 Tacticals (400 Active / 200 Reserve), 100 Assault Marines, 100 Devastators, 100 Scouts [note that these are nominal capacities, and a Chapter may be depleted 20-60%, depending on activity and losses]. Chapter preference for Axes over Swords is a non-issue.

Where you will get in trouble is if you start ignoring Imperial needs and so forth, using forbidden Archeotech, collecting tainted Relics, etc.

In that context, reshuflling the deck chairs and riding the occasional giant Lion from their homeworld isn't a big deal.

The Space Wolves represent the upper limit of what the Inquisition tolerates, and partly because they are a First Founding Chapter. As a late-founding Chapter, you should not expect nearly as much slack. The closer you are to the Ultras, the fewer questions the Inquisition will ask - that's why the secretive Dark Angels mimic Ultramarine Chapter & Company structures. The more you vary, the more often the Inquisition is going to poke their heads around and inquire what you're up to - that's why the Black Templars are always having to crusade to prove that their variances are for the Imperium.

[Nabterayl]

Remember what is actually suspect about the Space Wolves though. It isn't that they have a variant TO; it's that their great companies are self-sufficient expeditionary units (traditional battle companies are not). Just like the Black Templars' massive fleet, that raises the spectre of the Heresy - marines gone wild. They also have such a serious flaw in their geneseed that they occasionally become werewolves, which are a bit hard to rationalize as a variant of homo sapiens. And then their chapter master has the balls to threaten the entire Administratum. Even if he pretty clearly didn't mean it, that is a bit different from the usual run-of-the-mill "make me" when somebody tries to tell the chapter what to do.

It isn't variance from the codex that makes space marines suspect to the Imperium at large. It's acting like you are a threat, or planning to be a threat, or might accidentally become a threat, to the Imperium.

[rusty84]

Just wanted to say that this is the most interesting/useful thread ive seen, and I really love the sound of your Lion warriors. I created my own chapter using C:SM (Knights of the Emperor) but did it peicemeal as I went along, rather than sitting down and planning things out before hand. This thread would be really useful for anyone plnning to start their own chapter.
Best of luck for the army and would be great to see some pics as you go along!

[Nabterayl]

As far as "codex compliance" goes, I would point out that the spirit of the chapter organization that is a part of the Codex Astartes is all about checks and balances. Suppose the captain of 3rd Co. of the Supermarines decides to be naughty and, say, go knock off a forge somewhere. The codex imposes the following limitations upon him:

In order to get to his target, he needs spaceships. That means asking permission of the Master of the Fleet.
The entire chapter has less capital ship firepower than a single Navy battle squadron, and so is incapable of achieving space superiority against a well-defended target even if the Master of the Fleet is complicit in 3rd Co.'s naughtiness.
In order to get armored support, he needs to ask the permission of the Master of the Forge.
In order to get crews for his spaceships, he needs to ask one of the captains of 6th, 7th, 8th, or 9th Co. to borrow some of their men.
In order to have anybody to fly his Thunderhawks (which he gets from the Master of the Fleet to begin with), he needs to ask one of the captains of 6th, 7th, 8th, or 9th Co.
In order to have anybody to drive his company's own Rhinos and Razorbacks (even though they are assigned to his company), he needs to ask one of the captains of 6th, 7th, 8th, or 9th Co.
So unless he wants to hijack a ship and then fritter away his company's strength on mechanization and extraction, he's got to get buy-in from at least two other officers of the chapter, and more likely three or four. There's a system of checks and balances in place to make sure that anybody who just goes rogue will do so severely hampered.

Even though your Lions' prides are more centralized (and thus have fewer checks and balances) in some senses, in others they are even more compartmentalized. For instance, the captain of a codex battle company has three types of marine squads, Land Speeders, and motorbikes assigned to his company. The captain of a pride in the Lions doesn't have any of those things. So in order to field a balanced (and thus threatening) strike force, a Lions captain would still need to get the buy-in of several of his peers. Any one captain who goes rogue does so without a full bag of tricks (even in the case of the Great Pride ... yes, 600 rogue tactical marines would be a problem, but they won't be that hard to outmaneuver without bikes and speeders, and they won't be that hard to outgun without devastators and armored vehicles). I think that key fact would make their variant organization more of a curiosity than anything else, at least to non-space marine observers.

[Crazy Jedi]

There can always be trouble with the Inquisition over anything, always (fluff wise at least). I am prone to exaggeration but I do remember it being armor color which was the reason as to why the Flesh Tearers are still Loyalists, but the Soul Drinkers are Excommunicate Traitorous.
Seriously though, I thought I had read in the fluff (C:DA) that one of the biggest fears of the big I is "Legion Building" and so you'd better have a darn good reason to have more than a 1,000 Marines. Otherwise I think that a non codex compliant chapter wouldn't be a huge issue, especially if they aren't a force where one corrupt captain can take a self sufficient expeditionary force and convert to chaos with them, like Nabterayl said.

Otherwise I agree with what most people have said, and think your idea is really cool Jake. As I do recall, I think Scibor miniatures has lion pauldrons and some lion themed power armor gear.