Boston Marathon Explosions.

[Mr Mystery]

Rather disturbing breaking news.

Reports of explosions at the finish line of the Boston Marathon.

Few details, hence sticking to the factual 'explosions'.

[ElectricPaladin]

Let's hope it's just some kind of accident. And that nobody is hurt. Or at least not hurt badly.

Please, just be some kind of accident.

[Mr Mystery]

Indeed. The world can do without more strife, and the inevitable, poorly researched conspiracy theories.

Yes loose change, you tosser. I'm meaning you.

[lattd]

Reports are some injured but none dead so far which is good news.

[Mr Mystery]

Yup, but an unknown number.

According to the BBC, first explosion occurred around 3 hours after people started finishing.

Seriously hoping this is just a tragic accident.

[lattd]

Fox is reporting 3 dead and multiple devices found, its a sad day.

[ElectricPaladin]

Fox is reporting 3 dead and multiple devices found, its a sad day.

This is Fox we're talking about. Let's hope they're talking out their collective @ss.

[Mr Mystery]

Indeed. Fox do seem to be utter gob****es.

[lattd]

Boston police confirm 2 dead 22 injured, when you hear about the sheer number of runners it could have been a lot worse.

[Mr Mystery]

I'd trust the BBC for now. They have nothing to gain or lose just sticking to facts.

Fox are likely to say whatever and then recant, because they somehow bladed a legal right to lie outright on air...

[ElectricPaladin]

Boston police confirm 2 dead 22 injured, when you hear about the sheer number of runners it could have been a lot worse.

The New York Times agrees.

[Deadlift]

Terrible news.

[Psychosplodge]

It could have been so much worse.

Small mercies...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Indeed, thoughts go to the victims and their families.

[Wolfshade]

It seems a strange target, if it was one.

[Phototoxin]

Well placed explosives tend to imply a target.

[scadugenga]

There were four bombs--two detonated, two were found and disarmed. There was a fire at the JFK Library that they thought was a bomb, but was later dismissed as a fire, and not linked (at this point).

One of the two fatalities was listed (as I remember) as an 8 year old child. Which means the parent was probably running the race.

I cannot begin to fathom the pain that parent is going through.

The attack seems pretty half-arsed to be an actual organized terrorist attack. (and really, a marathon on tax day? not a primo target.)

This sounds more domestic, with some asstastic rectal infection wanting to get back at something.

I hope those responsible die a slow horrible death watching their parts rot and fall off.

[White Tiger88]

I am some what amazed North Korea has not yet been blamed for this by Fox news.......

[eldargal]

Absolutely horrid.

I agree with Scad, it sounds domestic. Al Qaeda's MO is to pack explosives with nails and/or high explosives to maximise damage, this was thankfully, blessedly amateurish in comparison.

[Wolfshade]

Or pack them onto remote controlled cars and drive them under gates at a TA base.

The obvious implication is what could happen next week at the London Marathon.

I hope though that this latest act will result in the perpetrators being discovered and not an excuse to curtail civil liberties.

[DrLove42]

Horrible pictures.

Absolute respect to all those you can see in the videos running towards the blasts to help injured people

[Gotthammer]

Some good news:

http://24.media.tumblr.com/f22370d45ff1c981eafc1828451990fd/tumblr_mlbqis4lX81rfimo0o5_500.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/662f7f3c4a3d925a9be9971c9e2edea5/tumblr_mlbqis4lX81rfimo0o1_500.jpg

via USA Today sports (http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/2013/04/15/boston-marathon-blast-help/2086273/?csp=sporttumblr) (more in link).

[eldargal]

Seeing some reports that ball bearings were indeed used in the bombs.:( I don't even want to think about what this means for the injuries people will have sustained.

[Mr Mystery]

Absolutely horrid.

I agree with Scad, it sounds domestic. Al Qaeda's MO is to pack explosives with nails and/or high explosives to maximise damage, this was thankfully, blessedly amateurish in comparison.

I'm inclinced to agree.

However, we have seen frankly shocking incompetence from 'Al Qaeda'. Think of the London bombings. Devices went off on the underground. Done with competence, that could have shafted the city for months. Day after, it's all running again. A mixture of British pluck and spirit, and idiots with bombs.

I know this might sound twisted, but I really hope for the world's sake this is just some internal butthole, and not another international incident :(

[DrLove42]

Remember, Terrorism as a root cause isn't about killing people.

Its about causing terror.

The Boston Marathon is the 2nd biggest sporting event in the US (apparantly after teh Super Bowl). It guarentees a platform to show it off, and scares the populace that something thought safe isn't. Death, although they may want it, isn't the intended outcome from a terrorist attack.

Whoever committed the act, I'm suddenly glad that the US has the death sentence...

[eldargal]

Yes but a higher casualty count increases the psychological impact. Whatever the reason glad it isn't the case this time.

[DrLove42]

Absolutly glad theres not more death, but its not over yet.

Finding and disarming 50% of the bombs was a blessing in its self

Even without a high death rate the Beeb is reporting huge numbers of single and double amputees from the victims

[Brakkart]

Whoever committed the act, I'm suddenly glad that the US has the death sentence...

The US doesn't have the death sentence, certain states within it do but it is not a national policy. The state of Massachusetts (where Boston is and hence where the crime was committed) abolished the death penalty in 1984.

Yeah a lot of the injuries were mentioned as being leg related with people losing limbs or feet.

[MarneusCalgar]

All my prayers are with the Boston inhabitants

[Mr Mystery]

Still no word on motivation (besides the obvious) or those responsible.

Seems the powers that be are very sensibly avoiding jumping to conclusions.

BBC reports a search warrant has been granted and executed for an apartment in a Boston suburb.

Really really hoping this is a lone nutter or nutters, and not linked to anything bigger.

[Denzark]

I heard on the Radio 4 news that the White House has described it as a terror attack. The UK government definition of terrorism is (not verbatim) when an organisation or even singleton, tries to get society or government, to change what they are doing, by threat of action or actual action. This will probably fit the bill. I regularly give thanks that there are some seriously inept terrorists out there. Thoughts with the families.

[Mr Mystery]

Indeed. Four Lions appears to be closer to the truth than intended (barring the bit in Afghanistan. Though I did watch it immediately prior to Bin Laden being nobbled)....

And to the reactionary idiots who are no doubt calling for heads of the security services...just remember. It's an imprecise science. They are not ominpotent or ominprescient. They cannot pick up on every single plot, nor can they realistically be expected to put a stop to all those they know about. They do a frankly outstanding job keeping watch over us. Think of all the plots stopped dead in their tracks. Think of all those lifted for plotting. Total respect to the men and women out there doing sometimes distasteful things to keep us as safe as possible. And remember folks, this is coming from a lefty liberal, and not a right winger.

[Psychosplodge]

Who was it who said "The security services have to be lucky all the time, the terrorists only have to be lucky once"?

And if they're already raiding places, well someone's doing their job?

[Mr Mystery]

Whoever said that hit the nail on the head.

And on the second part.

Still waiting for the nutty conspiracy theories to pop up. Not that I'm actively looking for them. I've still got three episode of Mitchell and Webb to supply my lols today.

And also, total respect to the authorities once again for keeping things factual in the reporting so far.

[Denzark]

Who was it who said "The security services have to be lucky all the time, the terrorists only have to be lucky once"?

And if they're already raiding places, well someone's doing their job?

That is paraphrasing what the PIRA said after they failed to murder Margaret Thatcher in Brighton.

[Psychosplodge]

I thought it was originally a terrorist source but couldn't remember which one.

[spaceman91]

Indeed. Four Lions appears to be closer to the truth than intended (barring the bit in Afghanistan. Though I did watch it immediately prior to Bin Laden being nobbled)....

And to the reactionary idiots who are no doubt calling for heads of the security services...just remember. It's an imprecise science. They are not ominpotent or ominprescient. They cannot pick up on every single plot, nor can they realistically be expected to put a stop to all those they know about. They do a frankly outstanding job keeping watch over us. Think of all the plots stopped dead in their tracks. Think of all those lifted for plotting. Total respect to the men and women out there doing sometimes distasteful things to keep us as safe as possible. And remember folks, this is coming from a lefty liberal, and not a right winger.

There is a saying that a friend of mine once told me. " Remember that there are good people out there that have to do bad things to others so that you can sleep soundly in your bed ". I never asked him where he heard it from.

EDIT: just read that back. it's not meant to mean the "terrotist"( for want of a better word ) it was more that there are people on our side who have to do evil things so that we can be safe. I AM NO WAY SUPPORTING WHAT EVER THIS NUTTER/NUTTERS HAVE DONE.

[Dlatrex]

This is being accurately reported in a variety of locations, but just to update the thread; officially there were only two devices at this stage in the investigation.

Many of my friends reported hearing a 3rd explosion at a later point but this was apparently a controlled detonation of a suspicious package. Mind you there are still 3,000+ parcels from runners and spectators that are being searched through.

A dear friend of mine was due to walk her dog along the sidewalk at the time of the incident. She is in early pregnancy, took sleeply, and napped instead of going out for the walk. She awoke to the sounds of the explosions going off 2 blocks away. It is of course terrible what has happened, but God be praised that it was not worse. It certainly could have been, given the size of the event.

[Phototoxin]

Not trying to be inflammatory and I appreciate there's lots of Americans here, but why is this described as terrorism when there's no known political motivation (yet) but the umpteen civilians killed by american drones and bombings in 'the war on terror' isn't ? It all seems a bit duplicitous. All death is sad but I think it needs to be kept in context.

[Mr Mystery]

Thank you for that. But perhaps better off in it's own thread, yes?

[Godless Zealot]

Not trying to be inflammatory and I appreciate there's lots of Americans here, but why is this described as terrorism when there's no known political motivation (yet) but the umpteen civilians killed by american drones and bombings in 'the war on terror' isn't ? It all seems a bit duplicitous. All death is sad but I think it needs to be kept in context.

I see what you're saying but regardless of what one may think about US military operations in other nations I'm sure they are not targeting civilians intentionally. Whereas in Boston this seems to be a deliberate attempt to kill and maim civilians at an open public event.

[ElectricPaladin]

I see what you're saying but regardless of what one may think about US military operations in other nations I'm sure they are not targeting civilians intentionally. Whereas in Boston this seems to be a deliberate attempt to kill and maim civilians at an open public event.

This is the difference.

No one is going to defend civillians being caught up in military violence as a good thing. In fact, the US military does its best to limit civilian casualties as much as possible. There's a world of difference between "oh, cr@p, looks like we caught some civilians in that blast" and "hey, I know, let's bomb a f^cking marathon!"

Now, you can argue whether or not the military is sufficiently careful from now until the cows come home, and I'm sure good points would be made by both sides, but it's still a totally different thing.

[eldargal]

I think whether or not they are deliberately targeted is irrelevant beyond Western rationalisation, these people live in fear of being accidentally bombed and are very, very angry as a result. Obviously it is much better that we aren't targeting civilians but the end result is much the same for the people in the places we are bombing. But really this isn't the thread for this sort of discussion.

So now I've read that there were only two bombs after all and no un-exploded devices. The explosive used seems to have been gunpowder, so looking increasingly like amateurs again. Thankfully.

[Wolfshade]

Worryingly for all the coverage that these two devices have had, how many other market bombs have gone off in and around the middle east that are now such a matter of course that they are left un-reported.

[DeadPanda]

We had in Exeter a few years back a failed suicide bomb in a busy restaurant ( Giraffe I think it's called)
Anyway a special needs guy had been indoctrinated to the cause and attempted to activate the device whilst in the toilet. Thankfully I he just ignited his crotch instead. But what I am trying to get at is no matter how amateurish the attempt is. You can bet there is someone far more capable behind it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7671138.stm

[Psychosplodge]

Not trying to be inflammatory and I appreciate there's lots of Americans here, but why is this described as terrorism when there's no known political motivation (yet) but the umpteen civilians killed by american drones and bombings in 'the war on terror' isn't ? It all seems a bit duplicitous. All death is sad but I think it needs to be kept in context.

It's clearly terrorism, and the other is collateral damage, the difference might not matter to the people getting bombed, but it is a difference.
The rights and wrongs are a separate argument.

Did see this on a youtube video though...(copied with spelling errors for accuracy)

The thing in Boston reminds me of bomb attack that happened in my town a few years ago. It was a bomb attack supposedly aimed to stop catholics from joining the police force and like bostan, it was aimed at a marathon. Well I was playing minecraft, as you do and heard the explosion, which went off just down my road. Then my Northern Irish brain kicked in, and I continued to play mincraft.

[DrLove42]

Just in case they werne't ahted enough, those lovely folks at Westboro Church have said they will picket the funerals of the victims as the bombings were (quote) "a bomb sent by god to punish America for the legalisation of gay marriage" (although they may have put it less intelligently...)

[Mr Mystery]

Just in case they werne't ahted enough, those lovely folks at Westboro Church have said they will picket the funerals of the victims as the bombings were (quote) "a bomb sent by god to punish America for the legalisation of gay marriage" (although they may have put it less intelligently...)

Oh but don't worry....apparently 'they should expect us' according to Anonymous. Who one presmues intend to stand their in their childish masks and tut as WBC..... What would we do without the self righteous goons of the Interwebs?

[Psychosplodge]

Yeah saw that last night TDA put the tweets up, at least the WBC are a target where innocents shouldn't get hurt.

[eldargal]

So ironic really that a bunch of people who think of themselves as devout Christians could so be so filled with hate and judgement. If there was a Second Coming filth like that would be first into the fires of hell.

[Mr Mystery]

Like they'll get close to them. Plus, Anonymous are just dumb enough to physically attack Westboro, giving them yet more media attention, and of course those precious lawsuits which is the whole point of their phony hate mongering.

Nice one Anonymous. Now, back into your basements, and think this through again, you morons.

[eldargal]

How is it that in such a gun-happy country Westboro Baptists haven't managed to piss off some gun-toting patriot by picketing his sons funeral and in response he has gone around and shot the place up? Not saying I want that, I just don't understand how, with the kind of despicable things they do, no one has been enraged enough to strike back at them.

[Psychosplodge]

Think it's a sinking to their level thing, or when they go to picket the really scary people they don't bother and piss off home instead?

[Mr Mystery]

Again, they'd just sue.

The whole thing is a deliberate antagonism thing. Something happens, they turn up and spout bile, hoping someone beats them up, someone they can then sue for it...

Wouldn't be surprised if someone does go Rambo on them...

[DarkLink]

How is it that in such a gun-happy country Westboro Baptists haven't managed to piss off some gun-toting patriot by picketing his sons funeral and in response he has gone around and shot the place up? Not saying I want that, I just don't understand how, with the kind of despicable things they do, no one has been enraged enough to strike back at them.

Because for the trigger-happy redneck image of American gun owners, in reality we tend to be the upstanding citizen types, and in particular we have a very, very high percentage of individuals with military and police service in our ranks. It kind of breeds discipline.

[ElectricPaladin]

Because for the trigger-happy redneck image of American gun owners, in reality we tend to be the upstanding citizen types, and in particular we have a very, very high percentage of individuals with military and police service in our ranks. It kind of breeds discipline.

It's true. I'm in favor of gun control, but the fact is that most people who own guns are quite responsible about them. Even people on my side of the issue agree that the problem isn't that America has a horde of gun-toting horde of nutters.

[DeadPanda]

So ironic really that a bunch of people who think of themselves as devout Christians could so be so filled with hate and judgement. If there was a Second Coming filth like that would be first into the fires of hell.

I feel sorry for the children raised in that environment who are brainwashed to beleive as their parents do. How the hell Social services don't get involved I don't know.

[DrLove42]

Because for the trigger-happy redneck image of American gun owners, in reality we tend to be the upstanding citizen types, and in particular we have a very, very high percentage of individuals with military and police service in our ranks. It kind of breeds discipline.

Yep. I may be critical of guns in the US, but you are right. The 99.9% who have a pistol in their bedside cupboard are a lot better than the rest who put a bad mark on them.

Its just a shame one of those 0.01% who give you responsible gun owners a bad name haven't done something :P.

Also on topic - The Beeb is reporting an arrest on the case from CCTV footage

Double Edit - Apparantly the Feds are claiming an arrest, but Boston PD is denying it

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Like they'll get close to them. Plus, Anonymous are just dumb enough to physically attack Westboro, giving them yet more media attention, and of course those precious lawsuits which is the whole point of their phony hate mongering.

Nice one Anonymous. Now, back into your basements, and think this through again, you morons.

At least Anonymous are doing something.

What are you doing?

[DarkLink]

Yeah, I find it really interesting how anonymous alternates between almost legit champions of justice and ****bag criminals so frequently. Not that it takes away from the fact that they're basically an internet lynching mob, but it is an interesting phenomena.

[Wolfshade]

Anonymous do nothing, they are vigilanties. They provide a voice, but who holds them accountable when their actions are deemed to be no longer in the public interest.

[eldargal]

Because for the trigger-happy redneck image of American gun owners, in reality we tend to be the upstanding citizen types, and in particular we have a very, very high percentage of individuals with military and police service in our ranks. It kind of breeds discipline.
I know, but if one of my brothers had been killed in Iraq/Afghanistan/Essex and those scum had turned up to his funeral I would have shot the F******s up, discipline be damned.

[DarkLink]

In this case, another pressure cooker bomb would be very ironic.

[ElectricPaladin]

I know, but if one of my brothers had been killed in Iraq/Afghanistan/Essex and those scum had turned up to his funeral I would have shot the F******s up, discipline be damned.

Same here. I'd plead temporary insanity by reason of "those guys are god-damned @ssholes." Probably I'd go to jail.

[Mr Mystery]

In this case, another pressure cooker bomb would be very ironic.

No. That would also be wrong.

And irony is already there. Boston was known to be a fundraising hotspot during the days of the IRA. But I'm not passing any kind of judgement there, just pointing out.

Breaking news? Fertiliser plant in Texas, near Waco has exploded, apparently flattening several streets. Again, very much hoping this is just a horrendous accident.

[Mr Mystery]

At least Anonymous are doing something.

What are you doing?

Exactly the same as them. Talking nonsense over the interwebs. Except I don't expect adulation for it. Nor a right to steal movies and that.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Yeah, I find it really interesting how anonymous alternates between almost legit champions of justice and ****bag criminals so frequently. Not that it takes away from the fact that they're basically an internet lynching mob, but it is an interesting phenomena.

It's the same with any organisation on the planet, you have the normal, reasonable, morally just, people; then you have the extremists...

Anonymous is a large, and growing, organisation. Although, saying that, no one really has united them, because it would defeat the purpose of anonymity.

[Mr Mystery]

They're a bunch of berk with an entitlement complex. The internet is theirs, because they say it is. And if you don't agree, they'll hack you. Clearly only a bunch of 'hacktivists' (correctly pronouned in English as a word BoLs would censor) have the right to policy the interwebs, because it's their personal playground, and everyone else here is only by their sufferance.

Anonymous can suck my hairies. They are not reasonable. They are not morally just. They're a bunch of whining trust fund brats who think they know better than everyone else, and reward themselves for their interference with a few illegal downloads or ten.

[Psychosplodge]

I love the etymology of berk...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

What an ignorant statement.

[Psychosplodge]

sorry

[Mr Mystery]

Tuning up at protests, wearing their childish masks because you know, god forbid they actually stand up and be counted for their views, with a banner arrogantly declaring 'you should have expected us'. They are Anonymous because they fear prosecution. They are pathetic. They demand a free internet, and then goose step about the tubes policing it as they see fit. Seriously, how long until they land someone they decided they don't like by downloading something horrible onto their victims PC? They 'out and expose' people but offer absolutely sod all evidence to support their conclusion and accusation. They are the gutter press run wild. They refuse to say who they are, and demand people trust them and their methods, whilst recklessly ruining the lives of people otherwise perfectly innocent, simply because they say they are guilty of something.

Sod them. They achieve nothing at all. They serve only themselves, ever seeking publicity, like that twonk Julian 'I'm not free' Assange. So what if he perhaps got a little rapey....he's an interwebular celebrity!

[eldargal]

Yep, they are vigilantes with no accountability who hide behind anonymity because what they do is often illegal. The few good things they have done (see Steubenville rape case) are outweighed by the many questionable or downright bad things they do.

[ElectricPaladin]

For that matter, Anonymous isn't exactly an "organized" organization. It's a loose coalition of individuals who carry out their own individual ideas of justice, sometimes acting in concert and staying out of each others' ways the rest of the time. This accounts for a lot of their spotty reputation. Some of them are well-meaning, some of them are fanatical weirdos.

[Mr Mystery]

Yet they refer to themselves as Anonymous, including terms such as 'we are anonymous'.

Therefore even one bad apple (and there's a lot more than that) spoil the bunch.

I really am sick of them. Hack your way to victory, and don't forget to reward yourself with some illegal downloads because you feel you're just that damned special.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I don't condone illegal activities, but at the end of the day Mystery I don't see you defending rape victims or protesting against religious extremists.

You are all completely missing the point of the masks, it's like a Superhero (ironic statement because they are not heroes) who wears a mask, they are hiding their identity to protect themselves and those that know them, because y'know, in this day and age of hacking and cyber warfare, there are others who are vindictive, and are better than you at what you do.

Example of what I'm talking about, say I openly hacked you Mystery, if you were a better hacker than me, and knew my identity, you could not just ruin my life, but my family's lives, my friend's lives, etc.

Knowledge is power, power corrupts. It's all about what you do with that power, some misuse it, others use it to great potential. Stop tarring the few by the actions of the many.

/rant

[Mr Mystery]

Trick is, don't be a **** to anyone, and the chances of anyone targeting you in turn are greatly reduced.

They hide their identity because they fear the legal repercussions of their thievery and other mindless illegal activity. Has some good come of them? I don't think so. They go after obviously objectionable targets in a pathetic attempt to distract from their law breaking.

And seriously, when they 'bust' an alleged paedo, they are doing so outside of legal jurisdiction. A half decent lawyer can and likely will use that to get their client off.

Leave it to the professionals. Job done.

[Wildeybeast]

For that matter, Anonymous isn't exactly an "organized" organization. It's a loose coalition of individuals who carry out their own individual ideas of justice, sometimes acting in concert and staying out of each others' ways the rest of the time. This accounts for a lot of their spotty reputation. Some of them are well-meaning, some of them are fanatical weirdos.

Sounds like Watchmen.

On the point of anonymous, I have to side with the against camp. Tda is right when he says we shouldn't tar them with the same brush, but when they hide in shadows and behind masks how can we tell the good from the bad? Until they are held accountable for their actions by society at large, any claims they make to freedom and justice are frankly laughable as they ignore one of the basic principles of democracy.

[DeadPanda]

You could argue that leaving it the professionals, would have ment the situation in Steubenville would have continued to be swept under the carpet. I'm in agreement with you though that they shouldn't be lauded as heros.

[Wolfshade]

Latest development:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22211190

[Psychosplodge]

So will they be bombing syria or iran?

[scadugenga]

You could argue that leaving it the professionals, would have ment the situation in Steubenville would have continued to be swept under the carpet. I'm in agreement with you though that they shouldn't be lauded as heros.

This. I can put up with shenanigans like wearing masks if they continue to champion victims who were further victimized by the very people who were supposed to protect them.

[DarkLink]

Also, the day of the explosion five Marines were killed in Afghanistan. Not that anyone apparently cares.

[scadugenga]

Dark, a terror attack on civilians will always trump casualties of war.

And frankly, that's how it should be.

Loss of life is tragic. But when your occupation carries a substantial chance of death, it's not as shocking as a terror attack.

The boy who died? He was there watching the race with his sister and mom. His dad had just finished the race. And more soul-shatteringly...his father had just put him down after giving him a hug.

Then the bomb went off.

The little boy died.

His sister is now an amputee.

His wife is in critical condition.

There is no coming back from that.

They were not combatants. It was not a war zone. There was no expectation of violent harm.

Tell me that's less important than casualties that occur in a war zone.

I can guarandamntee you any marine (without a family) would gladly trade places with that father if it would have spared that family.

[ElectricPaladin]

Dark, a terror attack on civilians will always trump casualties of war.

And frankly, that's how it should be.

Loss of life is tragic. But when your occupation carries a substantial chance of death, it's not as shocking as a terror attack.

The boy who died? He was there watching the race with his sister and mom. His dad had just finished the race. And more soul-shatteringly...his father had just put him down after giving him a hug.

Then the bomb went off.

The little boy died.

His sister is now an amputee.

His wife is in critical condition.

There is no coming back from that.

They were not combatants. It was not a war zone. There was no expectation of violent harm.

Tell me that's less important than casualties that occur in a war zone.

I can guarandamntee you any marine (without a family) would gladly trade places with that father if it would have spared that family.

This makes sense to me. It doesn't make it any less sad that those marines died. They didn't deserve it. But they weren't civilians watching a d@mned race. That's relevant. I think that criticizing the media for paying more attention to the shocking deaths of civilians than the... well, occupationally unsurprising death of marines is a bit odd.

[DarkLink]

It's just like the Joker said; You know what I've noticed, nobody panics when things go according to plan. Even if the plan is horrifying. If tomorrow I tell the press that, like a ********er will get shot, or a truckload of soldiers will be blown up, nobody panics, because it's all part of the plan. But when I say that one little old mayor will die, well then everyone loses their minds.

[eldargal]

Policeman dead at Boston University and one of the suspects apparently arrested. Unconfirmed rumours that the other gunman has been shot and killed.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

to get their client off.

Phrasing.

[Mr Mystery]

Policeman dead at Boston University and one of the suspects apparently arrested. Unconfirmed rumours that the other gunman has been shot and killed.

Interesting.

From the image release, I don't think they look particularly Muslamic, which is good. Quality is of course grainy, but one looks distinctly white, and neither had a beard (normally associated with arrested Islamists).

Here's to justice folks.

[ElectricPaladin]

Interesting.

From the image release, I don't think they look particularly Muslamic, which is good. Quality is of course grainy, but one looks distinctly white, and neither had a beard (normally associated with arrested Islamists).

Here's to justice folks.

I had a feeling that this was going to be a domestic job. Foreign terrorists seem to do a better job of it. Maybe it's kind of like how when you're at a conference the guy who lives down the block is always late, but the guy who flew a thousand miles is early? You know, if you can just roll out of bed and maim a hundred people, it's hard to care as much, but when you really have to work for it, it means you put more effort into it?

Going for black humor here. How am I doing?

[eldargal]

There are some names being bandied about, not posting anything like that 'til the police confirm it though, one is a student missing for three weeks presumed dead so don't want to slander the dead if it isn't him. Indian and Ethiopian ethnicities also rumoured, both born in the US. One was a Marxist (with implicit atheism). All unconfirmed though so bear that in mind.

[Mr Mystery]

I had a feeling that this was going to be a domestic job. Foreign terrorists seem to do a better job of it. Maybe it's kind of like how when you're at a conference the guy who lives down the block is always late, but the guy who flew a thousand miles is early? You know, if you can just roll out of bed and maim a hundred people, it's hard to care as much, but when you really have to work for it, it means you put more effort into it?

Going for black humor here. How am I doing?

Not bad. I'm a fan of gallows humour though.

[DrLove42]

So sounding hihgly likely one is dead, one still on the run

please bring him in alive. Someone needs to spend 50 years in a solitary confinement cell for this

[Mr Mystery]

Seems a bit confusing. Seems someone is in custody, and someone is dead. Last report I read on the BBC website stated nobody is sure whether they are one and the same.

[DrLove42]

Seems a bit confusing. Seems someone is in custody, and someone is dead. Last report I read on the BBC website stated nobody is sure whether they are one and the same.

its very up the air. Some are reporting they're Indian descent and have lived in the US their whole lives. Some are reporting they're from Russia and have been in the US for a year

[Mr Mystery]

Indeed.

One is now confirmed dead, as is one police officer.

Chase continues for the other scrote.

[Necron2.0]

Supposedly they are Chechens.

[Psychosplodge]

Supposedly they are Chechens.

Now that's interesting.

[Necron2.0]

Should have posted the source: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/19/17817173-one-boston-marathon-suspect-killed-second-suspect-his-brother-on-loose-after-firefight

... and we're back to this being a possible attack by Muslim extremists.

[eldargal]

It will be interesting if it is true. Can't for the life of me think why that filth would target America though, the US hasn't exactly been supportive of the Russian occupation.

[Necron2.0]

True, but we didn't exactly support the Russians in Afghanistan when we armed Mujahideen, and look at what gratitude that got us. And, I'd say, we backed the wrong side in the war in Kosovo, and I'm still waiting for that to come back and bite us in the butt.

[eldargal]

True, but we didn't exactly support the Russians in Afghanistan when we armed Mujahideen, and look at what gratitude that got us. And, I'd say, we backed the wrong side in the war in Kosovo, and I'm still waiting for that to come back and bite us in the butt.

Other issues contributed to that though, Al Qaeda are as much about the perceived occupation of the MidEast (Saudi Arabia in particular) than they ever were about Afghanistan. The Chechens have never indicated they give a **** about anyone but themselves. Islamic fundamentalism only goes so far, terrorism is political and the Chechens politics is tied up in freeing Chechnya. Al Qaeda have trained in Chechnya it is true but there never seemed to be ideological reciprocity that I'm aware of.

[Wolfshade]

From the beeb

Surviving suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings confirmed as Dzhokar Tsarnaev

[eldargal]

Yup, seems certain now, NBC saying they heard it from multiple sources. Bizarre and not a good thing if the Chechens are flexing their muscles again even if it pales in comparison to some of the stuff they've pulled off in Russia.

Glad the media didn't go publishing the name of the American-Indian student who people on social media were claiming had been ID'd as the suspect.

[Wolfshade]

Glad the media didn't go publishing the name of the American-Indian student who people on social media were claiming had been ID'd as the suspect.

Would be interesting if he could then sue them for Libel

[eldargal]

Not likely, he is missing presumed dead.

[Psychosplodge]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/b2af26395aeac454b95f064a48155d0e/tumblr_mli8zmcJtq1r3rsfmo1_500.jpg

So this is what the streets of Boston look like, it's almost like a scene from outbreak

[Wolfshade]

Not likely, he is missing presumed lynched.


I fix :D

[Bigred]

Oh, this is going to be bad:

American Rightwing is cranking this up as an Islamist attack - they will be waving the flag for anti-Islamic military action.

Overseas, I'm betting Putin will use this as an reason for a crackdown in Chechenya.

The real question is did these two act with any sanction from Chechenya - are they actually connected with Chechen seperatists/Islamist terrorists? Or is it just two disgruntled unstable individuals who lashed out?

And that's a hard question to answer if we can't take one of them alive.

[DrLove42]

Its gonna be bad

Chechnya is already doing everything it can to distance themselves, by insisting they only lived there for a few years a while ago.

[eldargal]

Chechnya doesn't really need a crackdown, the Russians basically flattened the place and killed everyone that resisted. The place is a Russian puppet with a relatively compliant population.

My money would be on the two acting along, I can't imagine the old, hardcore Chechen rebels doing something so amateurish, just look at Beslan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis) or the theatre hostage crisis. If it was more than them it just shows how well Russia has managed to degrade their offensive capacity, in their prime these people made Al Qaeda look civil.

[DrLove42]

The remaining guy at large describes himself as "a very devout muslim, with no American friends as I don't understand them" according to the news.

Sounds like the Islamic witch hunt has come home to roost again

[Necron2.0]

Sounds like the Islamic witch hunt has come home to roost again

Less a hunt and more a turkey shoot, I'd say. At the end of the day I'd bet money the motives turn out to be just more stereotypical Islamic extremism ... and let's face it, stereotypes quite often exist for a reason.

Even so, I wouldn't fire up the drones just yet. As has been mentioned, the amateurness of this surpasses the absurd. That's probably why it succeded - sophisticated plots at a bear minimum have a rational logistical trail. Except for the bombs themselves, what we're learning about these attacks suggests they had all the planning and foresight of a drunken fraternity panty-raid ... only not quite as well thought out. It's easy to predict malignant. It's hard to predict stupid.

[Brakkart]

Full credit to the Boston police force, they got their man, and they took him alive (well one of them anyway). Here's hoping they can get some answers out of him as to why he (and his late brother) did this.

[ElectricPaladin]

Full credit to the Boston police force, they got their man, and they took him alive (well one of them anyway). Here's hoping they can get some answers out of him as to why he (and his late brother) did this.

I can only imagine how this 'hostage' negotiation went:

"You see those cops out there? Each and every one of them would be only mildly embarrassed to shoot you dead. This is it. The end of the line. If you surrender, you get to have a life. In prison, but a life. If you give them any more sh*t, they will eventually kill you."

Honestly, I'm glad they got him. That way we can find out what he was really after and deny all the b#llsh*t conspiracy theories any grist.

[eldargal]

The remaining guy at large describes himself as "a very devout muslim, with no American friends as I don't understand them" according to the news.

Sounds like the Islamic witch hunt has come home to roost again
Wrong brother, the younger one who was captured was described as likable and well-adjusted, the other brother had no American friends. Having said that their uncle says both boys didn't integrate well but he hasn't seen them in three years. Friends described the survivor as a cultural Muslim not overly devout.

[DrLove42]

Great news to wake up to. Mucho credit to the Boston PD for such great work

Its reported this one ran his brother over while trying to escape and that is what killed him. Nice guy clearly

Im annoyed by all their family members sayong theyve been set up. Because set up people are seen on CCTV leaving bombs. And run away from the police, shoot back at them amd throw explosives at them. Interrogate this guuy then lock him in a dark cell for ever and forget about him

[eldargal]

They are just trying to rationalise how some young men they knew from birth could do something so horrible.

[DrLove42]

Yeah. Apparantly someone on CNN called for "aggression against the Czech Republic" because he didnt know where or what Chechnya was.

[eldargal]

Well why not.:rolleyes:

Ha, the Czech ambassador has even had to release a statement (http://www.mzv.cz/washington/en/czech_u_s_relations/news/statement_of_the_ambassador_of_the_czech.html).

This is one area where the Russian education system comes out on top, Russians know where both countries are 'cos we invaded both.

[eldargal]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BIQRfT_CUAAPfcF.jpg
I knew Hollywood was full of terrorists...

[Necron2.0]

I'll be honest, I almost feel sorry for this kid. What he was a part of was horrible, and he certainly has to answer for it, but I cannot help but think he's just stupid and naive, and he allowed his older brother to use their family bond to coax him into something he never would have done otherwise.

The age bracket between myself and my next older brother is the same as between this kid and his brother. When I was this kid's age I idolized my older brother. It wasn't until I was in my 30's that I realized what an arse my brother is. Prior to that, though, my brother probably could have talked me into one of his hair-brained schemes.

[scadugenga]

I'll be honest, I almost feel sorry for this kid. What he was a part of was horrible, and he certainly has to answer for it, but I cannot help but think he's just stupid and naive, and he allowed his older brother to use their family bond to coax him into something he never would have done otherwise.

The age bracket between myself and my next older brother is the same as between this kid and his brother. When I was this kid's age I idolized my older brother. It wasn't until I was in my 30's that I realized what an arse my brother is. Prior to that, though, my brother probably could have talked me into one of his hair-brained schemes.



I don't.

At the end of the day...at 19, you should know killing innocent bystanders is wrong.

If you don't know that...then you should be quickly deprived of the right to the communal oxygen.

[Wolfshade]

I don't.

At the end of the day...at 19, you should know killing innocent bystanders is wrong.

If you don't know that...then you should be quickly deprived of the right to the communal oxygen.

If they are a fundamentalist, killing people is great, it guarantees a path the heaven, which is the ultimate goal in life.

There are no innocent bystanders, there are those who are for the struggle and those who are against it. Bystanders are just as much enemies of the struggle as those who actively object and oppose it. You also need consider that these "infidels" or kafir are not considered to be fully people and the wholesale slaughter of is justifiable as this is a war; such people are not to be treated as people but as something less in a similiar way to their not being moral outrage at killing sheep and cows.

This is the mindset that you are facing when dealing with fundamentalism.

Just to clarify I am no way endosring any of these points, well maybe the inferrence that the goal of life is to get to heaven, and while we try and think of these people who do these acts teh same way we think and act you will ultimately result in failure.

[DrLove42]

You could feel some "he was pressured into it"...if he hadn't run over his brother trying to escape, had a gunfight with the police and not just handed himself in. That shows more than being pressured, that shows dedication

And clearly I never understood what WMD meant. Apparantly a pressure cooker with gunpowder and ball bearings is a WMD based on the fact hes been charged with possessing and using a WMD.

If thats what WMD's can be called it explains the War in Iraq. Any one with a handgrenade possesses a WMD....

[Psychosplodge]

I'm guessing that's how they made it a federal offence so they could throw the death penalty at him.

[eldargal]

You could feel some "he was pressured into it"...if he hadn't run over his brother trying to escape, had a gunfight with the police and not just handed himself in. That shows more than being pressured, that shows dedication

And clearly I never understood what WMD meant. Apparantly a pressure cooker with gunpowder and ball bearings is a WMD based on the fact hes been charged with possessing and using a WMD.

If thats what WMD's can be called it explains the War in Iraq. Any one with a handgrenade possesses a WMD....
This, one can argue maybe he thought he had gone too far to surrender at that point but once he sped off and then shot at police and through some grenades at them he really had gone too far..

Are you sure they are calling them WMD and not IED/Improvised Explosive Devoce?

[DrLove42]

Nope


Federal prosecutors charged him in hospital with using a weapon of mass destruction and malicious destruction of property resulting in death

[Wolfshade]

So if three people in on incident is a WMD, surely these school/mall shooters were also in possession of WMD as their body count was much higher.

[eldargal]

Well that's damned ludicrous.

[Kirsten]

a good article here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/21/boston-marathon-bombs-us-gun-law

I was amazed his parents were arguing that the brothers were framed. denial and sadness is one thing, but to claim they are innocent when they are throwing grenades at the police and are sat on a store of explosives?

[Wolfshade]

I was watching QI Xl on Dave the other night and Stephen Fry made a very good comment, that the US isn't great at keeping secrets so the chances of it being a setup without it being leaked is very limited.

[Psychosplodge]

Quite sad.


"I kept screaming I'm a dancer please save my foot"

They didn't...

[eldargal]

Urgh, that's horrific.:(

[Psychosplodge]

They're all sad, but some will effect the victims more than others...

[eldargal]

Yes. This case particularly resonates with me, though, because one of my best friends is a professional dancer and it is her life. She dances to de-stress, she dances for fun, she dances to earn a living, she just loves dancing. I can imagine how she would react if she lost her leg and I imagine what this poor young woman is going through would be much the same.

[Psychosplodge]

:(

[Necron2.0]

I was amazed his parents were arguing that the brothers were framed. denial and sadness is one thing, but to claim they are innocent when they are throwing grenades at the police and are sat on a store of explosives?

and


I was watching QI Xl on Dave the other night and Stephen Fry made a very good comment, that the US isn't great at keeping secrets so the chances of it being a setup without it being leaked is very limited.

"Denial ... it's not just a river in Egypt."

The parents don't believe it because they aggressively don't want to believe it, and they have half a world's (literally, geographically) separation from the facts as a bulwark against the truth. Still, it doesn't take much to insulate people from reality. There are still those who are quite insistant that the 911 attacks were a CIA plot, despite the fact that, as mentioned, the government is horrible at keeping secrets, despite all the forensic evidence that what official transpired actually DID transpire, and despite the fact that keeping such a huge and convoluted conspiracy a secret would be a logistical nightmare.

[ElectricPaladin]

I was amazed his parents were arguing that the brothers were framed. denial and sadness is one thing, but to claim they are innocent when they are throwing grenades at the police and are sat on a store of explosives?

I think their parents are entitled to delude themselves, at least for a little while. They are their parents, after all. It doesn't really matter. Let them come to accept reality in their own time.

[DarkLink]

a good article here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/21/boston-marathon-bombs-us-gun-law


This was pretty much what I was getting at when I mentioned the Marines who died the day of the bombing.

To keep things in perspective, though (the homicide diagram is the relevant part):

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/65172_10151404016515994_1341212834_n.png