Objective placement and order

[Denzark]

Question is this. When you place objectives, I believe the rule book says something like 'unless the mission description specifically states otherwise' you take it in turns to place the number of objectives rolled, starting with whoever won the roll for choice of table side. But - do you place objectives before or after you actually choose sides? I think it is after, if I read correctly.

But, that would mean that whoever has the most objectives, if an odd number, gets a massive advantage. Because they could just line up their 2/3 objs in a line, 6" from the back line and wait for the enemy to come to them?

Confirmation of my understanding would be good.

Cheers all,

[RGilbert26]

Ignoring the fact that objectives must be X number of inches away from each other and X inches away from the table edge, what's the problem with someone sticking all of their objectives near them?

[Denzark]

As per my OP, it creates a massive advantage when you have the odd number in your favour. In gun-line 6th ed you can park up and try to hold all 3 for the win. So, the OP starts from a losing position. Someone I was playing stated that the objectives get place BEFORE you choose sides, to stop people doing this. I played it that way to keep things personable but I think RAW, it is legit to place a 12" or 24" line, 6" from the rear, with 2-3 objjectives spaced evey 12".

So I thought i would ask for the rules smiths on here (such as Nabby) to confirm or deny.

[Magpie]

Page 121 says "starting with the player who chose their table half first."
Page 424 gives a good run down of the order, table halves are chosen pretty much as soon as you have determined the mission and map type.

This is well before objectives are placed

[DrLove42]

I think in the rulebook it says what Magpie says ^^

But a recent comp they did place objectives before choosing sides. It makes players more tactical in placing them. You could put them behind this barrier, in a really defensible location, BUT your opponent could choose that side and youd find it hard to get them off the objective, so do you put it out in the open to shoot your enemy off it, but then get lumbered with that side and find it hard to hold?

I liked it a lot, adds a lot more tactical planning

[RGilbert26]

Up to you if you choose not to follow the rules but as Magpie states the objectives are placed after you roll for sides and so you can do what you want with your own.

War isn't fair.

[mathhammer]

Step Page Action
1 118 The Mission
2 118 The Battlefield Setup
3 118 Roll off for “Chose table halves”
4 120 Setup Fortifications
5 120 Setup Terrain
6 121 Deploy Objectives
7 111 Warlord Traits
8 CSM: Determine Boons
9 Psychic Powers
10 124 Night Fighting (4+)
11 121 Roll off to go first.
12 Deployment
13 122 Seize the Initiative
14 Start 1st Game Turn
15 125 Determine Mysterious Objectives

[damian]

Your OP is correct in that, normally, the player who decides table halves gets to place the first objective marker and thus might have something of an advantage if there are an odd number of objectives.

Having said that, in any objective scenario, the player that goes second has a massive advantage in having the last player turn allowing them to grab or contest objectives in the final movement phase with few consequences.

D

[DrLove42]

Yes there is the order that Mathhammer has posted above. That is the "in book" version.

But do you follow that to the letter?

I don't know about you but I don't roll for table halves before putting scenery down. Or put fortifications down befor terrain

[Denzark]

I have never actually placed terrain in turn as per the book - I have either been to tourneys with pre-placed, or slap down a table myself because my usual gaming partner doesn't have time for much jazz beyond the actual game. I must admit that there is more of a tactical frisson in placing them before you know where you will deploy, for sure. But having had confirmation, I will probably continue, in more cut-throat situations, to (cover dependant) place in the shortest possible line, as far away from the enemy as possible, and let them come to me.

[mathhammer]

Objective placement depends on the army to. If i'm playing a heavy assault army i place the objectives on my opponents side of the table, since were going to dance over there. If your playing a static army then place them on your side.

Fortification deployment. By placing fortifications before terrain it allows you to blunt the fortifications effect by placing terrain in front of it. (look at it as finding a weak point in the fortification and launching an attack from that direction)

The BIGGEST mistake people make is not rolling night fighting at the correct point. By knowing this before deployment really effects the game.

[dwez]

Fortification deployment. By placing fortifications before terrain it allows you to blunt the fortifications effect by placing terrain in front of it. (look at it as finding a weak point in the fortification and launching an attack from that direction)


What some people forget is that the Fortification is included in the terrain density amount so if it's done by the rules you can make it difficult to blunt it. Your opponent wouldn't necessarily be able to fit a piece of terrain in your tile if the fortification had already been placed. The next tile, yes but there may be less chance to make the fortification ineffective. Although for those same reasons you would probably be confined to fitting a fortification in one 2'x2' area anyway, which would be a mess.

[Phototoxin]

We choose 'narrative' terrain by default. IE mutually agree before sides are set up. Otherwise the game can be over before it finishes.

[DrLove42]

A wierd thing from the "set" set up in the book

It suggests rolling off to choose sides BEFORE there is anything on the table. So you have to choose betwen 2 sides of a completly blank board....

[gcsmith]

A wierd thing from the "set" set up in the book

It suggests rolling off to choose sides BEFORE there is anything on the table. So you have to choose betwen 2 sides of a completly blank board....

Aye, as a Gamer I've never done this, since I game in my local GW store where terrain is pre set up.

[mathhammer]

A wierd thing from the "set" set up in the book

It suggests rolling off to choose sides BEFORE there is anything on the table. So you have to choose betwen 2 sides of a completly blank board....

It's not weird, it is determining who is taking the lead in setting things up. If you have a fortification you may want to be first to setup terrain.

Per the rule book your setting up the terrain not starting on a setup table, thus winning that roll lets you control the first piece of terrain being placed which can be big. (as some terrain squares (2'x2' sections) may only have a single piece of terrain.

[DrLove42]

I have to say..

Been to several tournies

And have a gaming club with over 160 members (we're awesome)

And I have NEVER actually played a game where people roll for deployments and stuff before setting up the board. And when it is set up i've never been "you go then I go scenery" we jsut put down what looks balenced and good.

Must be a regional thing about how toe to the books line people are on it..

[OrksOrksOrks]

I have to say..

Been to several tournies

And have a gaming club with over 160 members (we're awesome)

And I have NEVER actually played a game where people roll for deployments and stuff before setting up the board. And when it is set up i've never been "you go then I go scenery" we jsut put down what looks balenced and good.

Must be a regional thing about how toe to the books line people are on it..

The "scenery that looks good" is per the rule book, its the preffered method, the "you go I go" thing is a secondary method, I prefer to get a nice looking battle field myself, but then I'm not at all competitive

[mathhammer]

it's not regional it's who you know and rules of any tournament.

If it's someone i don't know or I'm traveling I toe the book to the letter because there are less arguments and less issues. If it's with friends we do whatever.