Tau observations and questions

[Iceman]

So I have had some time to review the new Tau codex and compare it to the previous. I've noted a couple of things and want to get some general opinions on whether or not my interpretation is correct. First, is the loss of the Targeting Array. I think this means that markerlights are the only way to boost ballistic skill now. The other is the loss of hard-wired support systems for team leaders. This means I have to be a lot more picky about what systems I choose for my units. In trying different list combinations a few questions have come up for me:
1) If I upgrade a Firewarrior shas'la to a shas'ui and give him a markerlight and target lock, I believe he still cannot use the markerlight for the benefit of his own unit. Correct?
2) If I give the Commander battlesuit a Drone Controller and a Command and Control Node along with two Marker Drones can the Marker Drones "shoot" when the Commander uses the C&C Node? If so, are they twin-linked? What if I give the Marker Drones to one of his bodyguards instead?
3) I've seen a lot of talk about markerlights and marker drones being able to counterfire during assaults. I'm not sure what the excitement about that is. It seems like they would still fire at BS 1. Sure, if they roll a 6 the remaining weapons shoot at BS 2 but the odds don't seem particularly good.

None of this should imply that I am unhappy with the new codex (I admit I think Pathfinders should have been Troops). There are enough subtle changes that I have to really think through what the effects are.

[Mr Mystery]

A unit cannot benefit from its own marker lights, as the entire units shooting is resolved at once.

Even if you split fire, as your still shooting the same target.

Excitement about over watch is that marker lights can boost you BS at that point. Given drones are twin linked, it takes fewer marker light counters to make them effective, and of course they can pin.

As for the loss of hard wired, a fair point, but then multi trackers come as standard, and no requirement for drone controllers gives a tasty boost, and that's two less bits of kit competing for your three hard points.

Hope this helps!

[ElectricPaladin]

1) If I upgrade a Firewarrior shas'la to a shas'ui and give him a markerlight and target lock, I believe he still cannot use the markerlight for the benefit of his own unit. Correct?


Correct. Only a "networked markerlight" can benefit the unit it's attached to.



2) If I give the Commander battlesuit a Drone Controller and a Command and Control Node along with two Marker Drones can the Marker Drones "shoot" when the Commander uses the C&C Node? If so, are they twin-linked? What if I give the Marker Drones to one of his bodyguards instead?


Yes he can. And no, it doesn't matter who the drones belong to.



3) I've seen a lot of talk about markerlights and marker drones being able to counterfire during assaults. I'm not sure what the excitement about that is. It seems like they would still fire at BS 1. Sure, if they roll a 6 the remaining weapons shoot at BS 2 but the odds don't seem particularly good.


Yeah... I don't think that the ability of markerlights to fire in Overwatch is all that good, either. That said, given how Supporting Fire works... I mean, think about this: you put markerlight tokens on a charging unit, then use those tokens to boost the BS of the three broadsides with twin-linked smart missile systems standing behind the unit being charged. That's 9 5/5 shots, twin linked at BS 2, ignoring cover...

[gcsmith]

Correct. Only a "networked markerlight" can benefit the unit it's attached to.



Yes he can. And no, it doesn't matter who the drones belong to.



Yeah... I don't think that the ability of markerlights to fire in Overwatch is all that good, either. That said, given how Supporting Fire works... I mean, think about this: you put markerlight tokens on a charging unit, then use those tokens to boost the BS of the three broadsides with twin-linked smart missile systems standing behind the unit being charged. That's 9 5/5 shots, twin linked at BS 2, ignoring cover...

would be 12 shots, but otherwise correect :D

[Iceman]

Thanks for the insights. Another question: attached gun drones on vehicles (like the 2 that come on the Devilfish) - do they fire using the Devilfish BS3 or do they use their own BS2?

[ElectricPaladin]

Thanks for the insights. Another question: attached gun drones on vehicles (like the 2 that come on the Devilfish) - do they fire using the Devilfish BS3 or do they use their own BS2?

Drones use their own BS. They are basically a special kind of passenger that can embark in a special place that no one else can.

[Power Klawz]

They are basically a special kind of passenger that can embark in a special place that no one else can.

And that is how babby is formed in Tau.

[Iceman]

Yeah that's what I thought. On the plus side there is no longer a disadvantage to detaching them. It does tend to detract from the extra shot when you can't get beyond BS2 without a marker light hit.

[Mr Mystery]

I disagree. In terms of chance, re-rolling to hit on BS2 results in greater accuracy than BS3 with no twin linked. Not massively better I'll grant you, buy enough that one can argue they need markers less than Firewarriors.

[Iceman]

Except that before, gun drones on a Devilfish were BS3 twin-linked. On the other hand, pulse carbines now get 2 shots instead of one. GW giveth and GW taketh away. I definitely am happy with the new codex. I just have to get used to lots of subtle changes.

[ElectricPaladin]

Except that before, gun drones on a Devilfish were BS3 twin-linked. On the other hand, pulse carbines now get 2 shots instead of one. GW giveth and GW taketh away. I definitely am happy with the new codex. I just have to get used to lots of subtle changes.

I'm actually sure that drones always used their own BS, not the vehicle's. I'll check my old 'dex later.


And that is how babby is formed in Tau.

Best kind of crazy, right here.

[Iceman]

Here's another one: If I outfit my Commander with Drone Controller and Velocity Tracker do any attached marker drones also get Skyfire?

[ElectricPaladin]

Here's another one: If I outfit my Commander with Drone Controller and Velocity Tracker do any attached marker drones also get Skyfire?

Nope. Velocity tracker is for the "model" equipped. Drone controller transfers BS, not other qualities of shooting.

[gcsmith]

Here's another one: If I outfit my Commander with Drone Controller and Velocity Tracker do any attached marker drones also get Skyfire?

a pretty clear cut no, drones do not have skyfire so do not get it

[Power Klawz]

Seems like it would be an order of operations problem. The drone controller gives your drones a new BS rating equivalent to your commander's. Then, you choose to shoot at an aircraft with that unit. Your commander has skyfire and therefore his BS is unaffected, the rest do not have skyfire and so have their inflated BS reduced to 1 regardless.

I'm kind of wondering about the inverse operation to that however. I believe that tau commanders can get split fire correct? If so, and say he does not take a velocity tracker and decides to shoot at an aircraft anyways while the drones shoot at another target. Since the drones inherit his BS, and since his BS has become 1 for that shooting phase, does that make the drones BS 1 for that phase?

It almost makes sense in a fluff kind of way. If your commander is absently shooting laser beams into the sky in a vain attempt at hitting something, he can't be paying much attention to his drones, who are probably just shooting wildly into the distance in some hilarious fashion while bleeping and blooping.

[ElectricPaladin]

Seems like it would be an order of operations problem. The drone controller gives your drones a new BS rating equivalent to your commander's. Then, you choose to shoot at an aircraft with that unit. Your commander has skyfire and therefore his BS is unaffected, the rest do not have skyfire and so have their inflated BS reduced to 1 regardless.

I'm kind of wondering about the inverse operation to that however. I believe that tau commanders can get split fire correct? If so, and say he does not take a velocity tracker and decides to shoot at an aircraft anyways while the drones shoot at another target. Since the drones inherit his BS, and since his BS has become 1 for that shooting phase, does that make the drones BS 1 for that phase?

No no no.

Snap-shooting is a special kind of shooting. It sets your BS to 1. With a few exceptions (markerlights, that Tau wargear that sets your Overwatch snap-shooting to BS 2 instead). If you aren't snap-shooting, your BS isn't 1. If you are snap shooting, your BS is 1. Period.

If my drone's BS is set to 5 by a drone controller, it has a BS of 5. When it snap-shoots, its BS is 1. When it doesn't snap-shoot, its' BS is 5.

Furthermore, snap-shooting doesn't actually change the BS written in the model's profile. It sets the model's BS to 1 for the purposes of that shot. Since a drone controller allows the drone to use the wearer's BS, it allows the drone to use the BS on the model's stat-line.

[Denzark]

Hmmmmm..... To the rules questions forum!

[Mr Mystery]

And just to poop in the well a little more...

If Drone Controller also passes on Skyfire, do Drones therefore benefit from placed shots?

(I say no on both. DC is clear. It passes on BS, not the ability to do trickshots etc)

[Wildeybeast]

You answered your own question mate. Drone controller just lets the drones use the wearers BS, it doesn't pass on any other abilities, including skyfire (which as mentioned is limited to the model with the velocity tracker) and placed shot, as per the rules written in the codex.

[Iceman]

Here's another one to ponder. Can the Commander take Signature systems in addition to his 4 weapon/support systems? How about bodyguard? Can they take signature systems ib addition to their 3 weapon/support systems? These are both worded differently from a normalCrisis Shas'vre where it is clear they get 3 total including the signature systems.

[Nabterayl]

Here's another one to ponder. Can the Commander take Signature systems in addition to his 4 weapon/support systems?
Certainly. "May take items from the signature systems list" and "May take up to four items from the Ranged Weapons and/ or Support Systems lists" are totally separate.

How about bodyguard? Can they take signature systems ib addition to their 3 weapon/support systems?
Yes, just as above.

[ElectricPaladin]

Yes, just as above.

With the shrinkage of the bodyguard squad size, it's the only advantage that an XV8 bodyguard has (other than, you know, an extra squad of XV8s) vs. adding the commander to a normal XV8 squad.

[gcsmith]

With the shrinkage of the bodyguard squad size, it's the only advantage that an XV8 bodyguard has (other than, you know, an extra squad of XV8s) vs. adding the commander to a normal XV8 squad.

Well, there is the auto pass LOS thing so he can be put in front with his 2+ save :D