PURE CSM (1850) *All Comers List

[Caitsidhe]

It is very difficult to build true "all comer" lists because you have to be equally prepared to fight the following:

1. Aircraft
2. Horde style armies
3. Terminator style (i.e. spammed 2+)
4. Parking Lots
5. Gun Lines
6. Mech Spam

There are other groupings but all of the lean heavily toward one of these six. I'm convinced that Allies are really required to create the BEST all comers lists, but some people are adverse to allies. With that in mind I have created (and have been testing) what I consider one of my more effective all comer builds. See below:

HQ:
(1) Daemon Prince of Nurgle w/Power Armor, Wings, Combat Familiar, and the Black Mace 280pts
(1) Chaos Lord w/Mark of Nurgle, Sigil of Corrpution, Burning Brand, and a Power Axe (Warlord) 150pts

Troops:
(7) Plague Marines w/2 Melta-Guns, Champ has Power Ax, Dedicated Rhino w/Dirge & Extra Armor 253pts
(7) Plague Marines w/2 Melta-Guns, Champ has Power Ax, Dedicated Rhino w/Dirge & Extra Armor 253pts
(5) Chaos Space Marines w/no Upgrades 75pts

Fortification:
(1) Aegis Defense Line w/Quad Gun 100pts

Fast Attack:
(1) Helldrake w/Baleflamer 170pts

Heavy Support:
(3) Obliterators w/Mark of Nurgle 228pts
(3) Obliterators w/Mark of Nurgle 228pts

Elite:
(3) Chaos Terminators, all with Power Axes and Combi-Meltas 112pts

Total Cost = 1849pts.

The one obvious weakness of the list above is that it fields only three scoring units. This must be mitigated by an aggressive play style that targets the excessive firepower against the appropriate targets. It is simply the price I had to pay to be able to meet the different types of threats. I'm interested in feedback.

[DrLove42]

I wouldn't take Black Mace. Its seems good, but never seems to deliver

Other than that i like. Maybe max out your heavy slots (not 2 units of 3 Oblits, but 3 units of 2)

And as for weakness in scoring units. Think about the 6 mission types.

1) Kill Points - No scoring units here!
2) One objective each. 3 is more than enough to hold yours, win by denying the enemies
3) D3+2. The only one where more is used
4) Big Guns. You have Oblits. With my 3 squads you suddenly have 6 scoring
5) Fast Attack. Dragon in Hover = 4 scoring. Plus you only have 1 "bonus" point to give away
6) Relic. One objective, 3 units is good, and if not it denies your enemy

Of the 6 game types, only half of them do you need only troops to score.

[Caitsidhe]

I wouldn't take Black Mace. Its seems good, but never seems to deliver

I've had the opposite experience. The Black Mace always delivers for me. Krampus (my pet name for my DP) is part and parcel of my anti 2+ as well as useful against Hordes and several other types of situations. I've tried him both ways (with and without the Mace) and having it made a serious difference. We may have very different styles and strategies though. I find it particularly useful against the new Chaos Daemons Godzilla lists. The Fleshbane is useful in getting around the high Toughness. By planting him in cover (so they will drop to Init-1) I have killed several other Monstrous Creatures before they got to act.


Other than that i like. Maybe max out your heavy slots (not 2 units of 3 Oblits, but 3 units of 2)

I like this suggestion a lot. I had considered it myself but hadn't tipped the scale in that call yet. Your comment will likely push me over the cliff to go that way. I like the clean probabilities of anti-AA with three of them. If you drop in behind a damn Flyer and fire three twin-linked Melta Guns you should statistically hit once at least. However, the ability to split my fire up one more direction is pretty useful, as is the disruption of Gun Lines via landing Heavy Flamers point blank. I don't give up many Kill Points now so one more won't hurt me.


And as for weakness in scoring units. Think about the 6 mission types.

1) Kill Points - No scoring units here!
2) One objective each. 3 is more than enough to hold yours, win by denying the enemies
3) D3+2. The only one where more is used
4) Big Guns. You have Oblits. With my 3 squads you suddenly have 6 scoring
5) Fast Attack. Dragon in Hover = 4 scoring. Plus you only have 1 "bonus" point to give away
6) Relic. One objective, 3 units is good, and if not it denies your enemy

Of the 6 game types, only half of them do you need only troops to score.

Exactly. Your concise appraisal was the same as mine. While it is nice to have more scoring units, it is usually not worth the trade off. Even more telling is most tournaments (where you use all comer lists) are three rounds. One round is almost always Killpoints. One round tends to be Objective based, and then the other is usually one of the odd ones.

[Caitsidhe]

Oddly enough the Termicide unit wasn't in my original draft. Such units have always been useful for cracking parking lots and pinpoint disruption. Even so, I didn't think I needed them. Then I fought against my own faction (CSM and CSM w/Daemons) and realized that my Quad Gun would keep getting shut down pretty much automatically by the incoming Helldrake(s). I wasn't too keen on this and it created another niche option for the Termicide unit.

Now when I fight an opponent who also fields a Helldrake (or more) I keep my minimum CSM unit in reserve as long as possible and start the Termicide unit behind my Aegis firing the Quad Gun. They don't care much one way or another out about the Baleflamer. Granted the Helldrakes can try to take the gun out itself with the baleflame but that requires a 5+ to wound and as long as I am not stupid enough to put it far enough to be vector struck when they come in, I should get maximum time of firing (and do better to protect that minimum scoring unit).

When I'm not facing opposing Helldrakes, I tend to use the Termicide in more traditional rolls. I've considered swapping one of the Combi-Melta for a Heavy Flamer to give them one more option on impact, but that would mean more Termies and I've already cut to the bone.

[Power Klawz]

I might replace the meltaguns in the plague-bros squads with plasma. Unless you're running into a lot of mech in your local meta I doubt you'd see a return on investment equivalent to what you'd get with double plasma guns that can double tap at 12". You seem to have plenty of anti-armor available anyways. (Deep striking obliterators ruin everyone's day.)

[atlas_garon]

id drop termis combat familar and quad gun for comm relay and another drake it will get more done and live longer.