When cops and anarchists are on the same side .... Hmmmm.

[Necron2.0]

Saw these two on youtube:

Video of Sheriff Shayne Heap (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlwgZzeq8oI)

Video reported to be from "Anonymous" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqiS3f4gxCQ)

In a nutshell, both are calling Herr Obama out as a jackbooted thug. When both sides of a coin are showing you the same thing ... for me that becomes real hard to ignore.

I also find it a bit alarming that the Administration has bought up 1.5 Billion (yes, that's with a "B") rounds of 40 caliber ammunition. That's more than 20 times what the US Army uses in one year of engagement in any of the current hot zones. These rounds have been distributed to "Homeland Security" and the Secret Service, two agencies not answerable to Congress, to the Judiciary, to the US Constitution nor the US people. What is more telling is who the bullet hoarding is hurting the most. It doesn't affect the military. It doesn't impact the average citizen - 40 cal guns aren't the most popular. The one group put at a disadvantage by the hoarding are the police, whose service weapons are almost all 40 caliber.

I'm still inclined to think this is just stupidity and corruption on the Administrations part, but it is REALLY starting to stink of something else.

P.S. No, I don't actually believe that second video above really is "Anonymous" ... but who knows? Maybe it is.

[Mr Mystery]

Anonymous would know all about Fascism. They and they alone wish to Police the Internet, and do useful things lack hack North Korean stuff to call Kim silly names, which almost certainly does no harm. I mean, it's not as if the legitimate owners of the sites they hacked now run a very real risk of a particilarly unpleasant police/army visit?

I despise anonymous. They aren't the good guys. They're idiots, self serving mindless arsebrains, without the stones to stand up and be counted, and this hide behind their ridiculous mask. Anonymous. You are not V. V didn't conduct his campaign from his Mum's house. Or squeal like a pig as soon as arrested.

[Wildeybeast]

Why exactly do you have armed groups who are accountable to no one but themselves?

[Mr Mystery]

That's a bloody good point.

[Wolfshade]

If they are without arms, they are mostly armless...

[Necron2.0]

I despise anonymous. They aren't the good guys.

No indeed, which is why I put them on the opposite side of the spectrum than cops (not that the cops are the "good guys" either, but I digress). Anonymous are anarchists, and anarchist are delusional, arrogant, self-important butt-munches who need to cultivate a serious devotion to STFU! Occassionally anarchist are well-intentioned, but being well-intentioned is no substitute for being right.


Why exactly do you have armed groups who are accountable to no one but themselves?

Easy. Something horrendous happens that shocks the public. People cry out for action. The government responds in its typical knee-jerk reactionary way. They create some new entity/organization/legislation. The people are appeased. What the government imposes, however, in no way actually fixes or even addresses the root cause of the atrocity. All it really serves to do is wrest the power of self-determination from the citizenry as a whole and place that power squarely and firmly into the hands of the government and the power elite. All the while, the people are just too damned stupid to see what has just transpired, or even realize how badly they’ve just been raped.

Sound familiar?

[Nabterayl]

Why exactly do you have armed groups who are accountable to no one but themselves?
We don't. The Department of Homeland Security (European translation: Ministry of the Interior) is a department of our executive branch, as is the Department of Defense, and every other government agency charged with actual action. Like the Department of Defense, DHS ultimately answers to the president, although its funding is controlled by Congress. The same is true of the Secret Service, which was our original intelligence and counter-terrorism agency, but whose responsibilities have since been taken over by other agencies with the exception of protecting important officials and investigating currency counterfeiting.

Aside from being accountable to the executive branch (which makes sense, since their jobs are by nature executive), both DHS and SS are bound in the scope of their activities by the laws passed by Congress, the limits set on the federal government (to be articulated by the federal judiciary), and the funding allocated by Congress. I would hardly call them unaccountable. They are arguably not as restrained as they should be, but the blame for that falls on many shoulders.

EDIT: Regarding the ammunition purchases ... two things that bear emphasizing is that DHS is responsible for supplying ammunition to about 135,000 officers, most of whom are armed with handguns, and purchasing is not the same as taking delivery. As everybody knows, or should know before they start spinning conspiracy theories about how DHS is planning to exterminate the population using handguns, contracts like this are generally for delivery over many years. So they've entered into contracts to purchase 2.1B rounds of pistol ammunition. Over how many years?

I might also point out that the government routinely stockpiles ridiculous amounts of ammunition, because that's the way procurement works. I have a buddy who carried out some pretty hairy ops in Iraq and Afghanistan and he assured me that the ammunition he was shooting was bought in the 1970s.

[Uncle Nutsy]

http://i.imgur.com/UnFnF.gif

[Wildeybeast]

So the DHS and SS (that's probably not the best abbreviation) are answerable to President, are funded by Congress and controlled by the laws set by congress if I'm understanding that correctly. They don't sound quite that bad then, but still way more independence than us Brits would be happy with. Royal protection is undertaken by a combination of the army and police whilst political protection is handled by the police, we don't have separate organisations for them. We don't really have an equivalent to DHS. By the looks of this (http://www.dhs.gov/day-life-dhs) the jobs DHS handles are done by a number of different organisations over here.

[Mr Mystery]

Our DHS handles sofa sales...and always have a sale on.

Is it a front?

[Wolfshade]

So the DHS and SS (that's probably not the best abbreviation) are answerable to President, are funded by Congress and controlled by the laws set by congress if I'm understanding that correctly. They don't sound quite that bad then, but still way more independence than us Brits would be happy with. Royal protection is undertaken by a combination of the army and police whilst political protection is handled by the police, we don't have separate organisations for them. We don't really have an equivalent to DHS. By the looks of this (http://www.dhs.gov/day-life-dhs) the jobs DHS handles are done by a number of different organisations over here.

We all know that all of our internal security are handled by a league of well spoken gents, dressed in sharp suits driving aston martins around

[Necron2.0]

As everybody knows, or should know before they start spinning conspiracy theories about how DHS is planning to exterminate the population using handguns...

Who the hell ever said anything even remotely like that ... other than you?

And even with typical governmental stockpiling, there are a lot of various groups and agencies questioning why DHS and SS are hoarding (now) over 2 billion rounds of ammunition - groups whose opinions are far more authoritative than anyone here. And (as was the original point of this thread) when those groups, some with very disparate points of view, start agreeing with each other, I think it wise to take notice.

And Wildey, no - your use of "SS" was accurate enough. The Secret Service, among other things (stress that for the reading comprehension challenged - "among other things"), are the personal bodyguards of the President and, as part of the executive branch (like DHS), are not answerable to anyone other than him.

[Nabterayl]

Who the hell ever said anything even remotely like that ... other than you?
Plenty of people on the internet, and some of my relatives, have said that in relation to federal "hoarding" of ammunition. Sorry for generalizing to these particular people, though.


Who the hell ever said anything even remotely like that ... other than you?And Wildey, no - your use of "SS" was accurate enough. The Secret Service, among other things (stress that for the reading comprehension challenged - "among other things"), are the personal bodyguards of the President and, as part of the executive branch (like DHS), are not answerable to anyone other than him.[/QUOTE]

So the DHS and SS (that's probably not the best abbreviation) are answerable to President, are funded by Congress and controlled by the laws set by congress if I'm understanding that correctly. They don't sound quite that bad then, but still way more independence than us Brits would be happy with.
I'm curious ... what other accountability would there be? It seems improper to me for the legislature to, say, appoint (and/or be able to dismiss) personnel whose job is essentially executive. Nor does it strike me as worrisome that, say, the Army is only "answerable to the President, funded by Congress and controlled by the laws set by Congress" (though we should add in the case of both DHS and the Army the Constitution as well).

We don't really have an equivalent to DHS. By the looks of this (http://www.dhs.gov/day-life-dhs) the jobs DHS handles are done by a number of different organisations over here.
The scopes are probably somewhat different, but to me, DHS looks like the equivalent of the Home Office. Are there differences between the two that seem particularly significant to you?

[Wildeybeast]

I'm curious ... what other accountability would there be? It seems improper to me for the legislature to, say, appoint (and/or be able to dismiss) personnel whose job is essentially executive. Nor does it strike me as worrisome that, say, the Army is only "answerable to the President, funded by Congress and controlled by the laws set by Congress" (though we should add in the case of both DHS and the Army the Constitution as well).

Well, it comes down to the amount of power invested in the President. We simply don't have an individual official with anywhere near that level of authority, never mind groups which are held accountable only by that individual. Our head of state has little actual power and the country is run by collection of individuals, to whom our intelligence services are ultimately accountable.


The scopes are probably somewhat different, but to me, DHS looks like the equivalent of the Home Office. Are there differences between the two that seem particularly significant to you?

Sort of. The Home Office is the government department responsible for overseeing those activities, setting budgets and policies, but the actual activities are carried out by different bodies who operate separately from each other. All UK police forces, the Border Force (border control), the intelligence services (MI5 and MI6) and the Border Agency (immigration) all fall under the remit of the Home Office. The Home Office are basically just another government branch, same as the Department for Education or the Department for Transport. The HO has differing levels of control over the organisations. The Border Force, for example, answers pretty much directly to the Home Office. By contrast, their involvement in the Police consists largely of allocating budgets and setting national policies. Each regional force runs itself, deciding on appointments, spending, local policy. The newly created, elected (by virtually no one) Police and Crime Commissioners now have some influence over the Police and they are held accountable by an independent body who investigate any cases of wrongdoing and recommend disciplinary action or criminal prosecutions.

The key difference to me seems to be not the activities, but how they are undertaken and who by, as well as the level of independence and governmental control of these activities.