Tau Seeker Missiles

[Aspire to Glory]

Where are you guys putting your seeker missiles?

Are Broadsides an okay place to put them? Kinda pushes their already expensive points up.

There will be two on my Sun Shark Bomber and probably two on my Hammerhead.

Is four enough, do you suppose?

[SonicPara]

Seekers on vehicles are fairly limited now because they must be fired at the same target that the vehicle is firing at. The rule explicitly states "vehicles" so Broadsides are exempt from that limiting rule (may be FAQ'd though) and are therefore the best Seekers in the codex.

[Gir]

Seekers on vehicles are fairly limited now because they must be fired at the same target that the vehicle is firing at. The rule explicitly states "vehicles" so Broadsides are exempt from that limiting rule (may be FAQ'd though) and are therefore the best Seekers in the codex.

Where is the rule? Seeker missiles are just one shot missile that can be fired by markerlights.

[DrLove42]

Seeker missiles can also be fired by the unit with them, as well as oldschool with the markerlights

I wouldn't put em on an aircraft, just too easy to kill.

I have one on each of my Hammerheads for Markerlight, might run some on Broadsides.

I'm not sold on the Skyray yet. I played against one this weekend, and although it mullered a good few of my bikes in one turn, after it had shot its load in turn 1, it was just a very expensive markerlight.

[Anggul]

I imagine the Skyray is great for helping bring down multiple flyers, but against armies with only one/no flyer it's a bit wasted.

I don't know why they made it so the Seeker has to be fired at the same target as the vehicle it's mounted on even when fired via Markerlight, sort of removes the point, so I'm not sure we'll see them that much for that reason, except maybe on Piranhas because they'll be swooping in with Fusion Blasters to take out vehicles anyway.

[SonicPara]

Where is the rule? Seeker missiles are just one shot missile that can be fired by markerlights.

Page 68, in the Markerlight entry, under "Seeker."

"A seeker missile fired in this way:
- Does not need line of sight.
- Must be fired at the same target as the vehicle's
other weapons.
- etc..."

A XV-88 Broadside is the only non-vehicle unit that can take a seeker missile and due to the wording here is exempt from this limitation. This may very well be FAQ'd but for now, it makes Seekers on Broadsides the best, most flexible option.





I'm not sold on the Skyray yet. I played against one this weekend, and although it mullered a good few of my bikes in one turn, after it had shot its load in turn 1, it was just a very expensive markerlight.

If that is all it was then your opponent wasn't really milking the unit for all it is worth. Once its Seekers are gone it should transition into a front-line, even sacrificial unit if needed as it has already served its primary role and can help provide some significant surviveability through its high AV and 3 HP. Also, with SMS being a free upgrade it should be shooting those every turn as well as tagging people with its markerlights. That is what makes the Skyray so good at its points, it uses its payload of Seekers to alpha-strike something off the table, then plays bully with its mass, armor, and other weapons. If your opponent diverts resourced to kill it then congratulations, you just sacrificed your empty missile carrier and preserved a different unit that was at full operational strength. If they don't kill it then you can wreak havoc with various denial tactics like tank shocking and simple blocking.

TL,DR: Skyray can blow its load and then be a jerk all for about 1/20th of your points.

[Tynskel]

I think you are misunderstanding how the seekers work.

You must use a unit to activate the seeker missiles. So, imagine a squad of Pathfinders light up a tank. Now your Razorshark Strike Fighter is attacking the tank. You may activate seeker missiles from anywhere to fire at the tank, and these don't count against the Razorshark's missile allotment.

The key here is that someone has to target the tank after marker lights have painted the target, for those markerlight hits to be used.

[Phototoxin]

My understanding is that without markerlights yes you need to shoot them at your main target but that with markerlights (ie another unit's shots) that the missiles can be launched from anywhere.
Also they will faq the broadside thing.

[ElectricPaladin]

IMHO:

First of all, you don't have a choice about putting seekers on your flyers. Both the sunshark and the razorshark have a pair of seeker missiles, standard.

Secondly, I think seekers are a great way to sink some extra points. Buy some seekers! Why not?

However, I don't think seekers are as good as they used to be. The limitation that seekers need to be fired at the same target as the rest of the unit (and I do think that will be FAQd soon so it clearly doesn't just apply to vehicles) means that you can't just scatter your seekers around in your army. You need to be more intentional about it.

Look for models with long-range weapons that can kill or scratch AV 13 to 14. Hammerheads and broadsides are good choices. They can carry seeker missiles and it isn't a waste of time for them to fire them alongside their primary weapons. Devilfish are less good choices, because the rest of their weaponry can't even scratch the sort of targets that seeker missiles are good at. Piranhas are probably still a good example because they can rocket up the side of the board and try to catch targets in the side or rear armor with that seeker missile. Remember that the seeker platform must fire the rest of their weapons at the target... it doesn't say that those weapons have to have a chance of harming the target, or even be pointed in the right direction. If a piranha goes so fast that all its weapons are snap firing and can't possibly hope to hit that tank over there with its 18'' burst cannon, there's no reason it can't still spend a markerlight token to fire a seeker missile.

[gcsmith]

The only reason to use the seeker markerlight rule is to get for one markerlight point a bs 5 and ignore cover missile. Missiles can be fired on their own, but for same affect for one missile you otherwise need 3 markerlights if firing it from the sky ray. Otherwise seekers are great, like hunter killers but better

[Dino-Czar]

IMHO:
Secondly, I think seekers are a great way to sink some extra points. Buy some seekers! Why not?

To add drones instead?



However, I don't think seekers are as good as they used to be. The limitation that seekers need to be fired at the same target as the rest of the unit (and I do think that will be FAQd soon so it clearly doesn't just apply to vehicles) means that you can't just scatter your seekers around in your army. You need to be more intentional about it.

Look for models with long-range weapons that can kill or scratch AV 13 to 14. Hammerheads and broadsides are good choices. They can carry seeker missiles and it isn't a waste of time for them to fire them alongside their primary weapons. Devilfish are less good choices, because the rest of their weaponry can't even scratch the sort of targets that seeker missiles are good at. Piranhas are probably still a good example because they can rocket up the side of the board and try to catch targets in the side or rear armor with that seeker missile. Remember that the seeker platform must fire the rest of their weapons at the target... it doesn't say that those weapons have to have a chance of harming the target, or even be pointed in the right direction. If a piranha goes so fast that all its weapons are snap firing and can't possibly hope to hit that tank over there with its 18'' burst cannon, there's no reason it can't still spend a markerlight token to fire a seeker missile.

I can see putting them on Devilfish. If you're rocking a Positional Relay a D-Fish in from reserve could drop off some Firewarriors or Pathfinders and take some knocks at a target of opportunity. I actually like that idea better than trying sprint Piranhas into position.

[Tynskel]

My understanding is that without markerlights yes you need to shoot them at your main target but that with markerlights (ie another unit's shots) that the missiles can be launched from anywhere.
Also they will faq the broadside thing.

No, if you read the section on markers, the only way to 'activate' a marker token is for a friendly unit to target an enemy unit that has a marker token on it. The rules specifically state that before initiating the firing of the friendly unit, you must state how many marker tokens will be expended, and for what purpose.

The rule is very clear.
The seekers can come from anywhere, but they need a unit to activate them.

[gcsmith]

"Seeker missiles are one shot weapons usually guided to their targets by markerlights, though they can be fired independently as well."

[Tynskel]

"Seeker missiles are one shot weapons usually guided to their targets by markerlights, though they can be fired independently as well."

That quotation is meaningless.

The meat of the rules is under 'Target Acquired' in the markerlight rules. You can activate any seeker on the board, when a friendly unit has 'acquired' the target.



For example.

You have a broadside with a seeker, and you have a pathfinder squad.

The broadside has already fired.
The pathfinders fire their markerlights at a target, hitting with marker lights.

Since the broadside has already fired, and there are no other friendlies, the markerlight tokens cannot be spent to fire the seeker.

Example 2:

You have a broadside with a seeker, you have a pathfinder squad, and a sunshark bomber.
The broadside has already fired.
The pathfinders fire their markerlights at a target, hitting with marker lights.

The sunshark bomber now targets the target that has marker light tokens. The player announces that it will use a token to fire a seeker missile. The missile will be fired from the Broadside at BS5 Ignores Cover. The sunshark bomber then proceeds to fire 2 of its own seekers at BS3. The Broadside seeker does not count toward the sunshark bomber's limit of missiles.

[gcsmith]

That quotation is meaningless.

The meat of the rules is under 'Target Acquired' in the markerlight rules. You can activate any seeker on the board, when a friendly unit has 'acquired' the target.



For example.

You have a broadside with a seeker, and you have a pathfinder squad.

The broadside has already fired.
The pathfinders fire their markerlights at a target, hitting with marker lights.

Since the broadside has already fired, and there are no other friendlies, the markerlight tokens cannot be spent to fire the seeker.

Example 2:

You have a broadside with a seeker, you have a pathfinder squad, and a sunshark bomber.
The broadside has already fired.
The pathfinders fire their markerlights at a target, hitting with marker lights.

The sunshark bomber now targets the target that has marker light tokens. The player announces that it will use a token to fire a seeker missile. The missile will be fired from the Broadside at BS5 Ignores Cover. The sunshark bomber then proceeds to fire 2 of its own seekers at BS3. The Broadside seeker does not count toward the sunshark bomber's limit of missiles.

The seeker missile is classed as a weapon, no longer does it say can only be fired by a markerlight.

[Tynskel]

and if you read my example, you would note that I take that into account.

[gcsmith]

ahh fair enough, missread it. But the fact seekers can be fired on their own now and the fact they are cheaper makes them worth taking now. Especially since you can output as many as you want from a vehicle in a turn.

[Tynskel]

It certainly gives the Tau the 'Alpha Strike' king category. However, I would caution how many one purchases. Those points could be used for mans (fishes)!

[gcsmith]

It certainly gives the Tau the 'Alpha Strike' king category. However, I would caution how many one purchases. Those points could be used for mans (fishes)!

Each suit now saves 8 points, so for each suit you can buy a seeker plus you can only have 2 per vehicle instead of 4 like before

[Tynskel]

Sure, Broadsides, because that doesn't take up a slot.
Other than that, only vehicles have access to Seeker Missiles.

Even then, you have to remember, the weapon is only 1 shot, and is Str 8 AP3. It is not bad, but it is also not great.

5 missiles = 1 crisis suit.

[Uncle Nutsy]

Easy and totally legal way of targeting a different unit than the vehicle:

Fire the seeker first.

[gcsmith]

If the seeker must be fired at the same target as the rest of the vehicles weapons and then you shoot the weapons at a diff target, that rule has not been followed.

[Tynskel]

Easy and totally legal way of targeting a different unit than the vehicle:

Fire the seeker first.

You seem to be having reading comprehension problems.
All weapons are fired at the same time, at the same target, unless you have a special rule that states otherwise.

The act of firing a seeker missile via marker token requires a unit to be shooting at target unit that has the marker tokens. Unless you have some special rule that allows you to 'split fire', you cannot change targets after firing the seeker missile.

[Uncle Nutsy]

No tynskel. If you fire enough seekers first, before the other weapons, no more target. I'm not talking about "split fire". I'm talking about overwhelming a target with missile fire.

there is no specific order of weapon fire. It's not like they're telling us that you HAVE to fire gun drones on the vehicle before the seeker. How stupid would that be?

[Tynskel]

No tynskel. If you fire enough seekers first, before the other weapons, no more target. I'm not talking about "split fire". I'm talking about overwhelming a target with missile fire.

there is no specific order of weapon fire. It's not like they're telling us that you HAVE to fire gun drones on the vehicle before the seeker. How stupid would that be?

Nope, still wrong there.
All firing from a unit happens at the same time. If your target is destroyed, you don't get to choose a new target.

What you are saying is that a space marine tactical squad could fire its meltagun at a tank, destroying the tank, and then proceed to fire the bolters at a group of guardsmen. No, you can't do that. All guns within a unit fire at the same target.

[Uncle Nutsy]

Target locks.

put on shas'vre

shas'vre kills target (with help).

rest of unit chooses another target.

[Tynskel]

You still fire all weapons at the same time. You have to declare what is shooting what before rolling the dice.