Plague Marines in MSU

[Aspire to Glory]

The title kinda explains it. Are plague marines tough enough to thrive in Many Small Units configuration?

Like if I run 4 squads of 5 dudes each...

Es bueno?

[Sly]

Yes. 5 of them take about as many Bolter shots to remove as about 11 normal MEQ bodies. And S4 attacks, whether shooting or in CC, are still the great infantry killer.

[Caitsidhe]

The title kinda explains it. Are plague marines tough enough to thrive in Many Small Units configuration?

Like if I run 4 squads of 5 dudes each...

Es bueno?

Yes. They can. I am a dedicated CSM player. I've never been an army jumper. Chaos Space Marines is my bread and butter. I dabble in allies in some support role or another but all my calculations are based on the core of my army. I used Plague Marines in both MSU and large unit configurations in 5th Edition. This Edition is still sorting itself out. It really depends on the role you mean for your Plague Marines to fill.

1. If you mean them for Assault purposes, the MSU configuration is not the way to go. The gun is now king and assault troops need numbers, even when they are tough nuts like Plague Marines. You really need to start with the larger unit to get to the target with the numbers you need.

2. If you mean them to be shooting troops primarily which hold positions and objectives, MSU works great. They are Fearless and hard to kill. Dislodging them is a pain and most people just don't want to do it.

3. If you use them as a mixed bag, i.e. for shooting, objective holding, and in assault "support" they work fine in MSU. When I say in support, I mean that you have a big nasty unit which they follow along behind or race in front of in their Dirge Casting Rhino. In my case I use a Nurgle Daemon Prince with a Black Mace.

I want to stress that while Plague Marines an be used MSU, I find myself in all three roles above using units of 8-10, i.e. running fewer units (quality over quantity). If you really want to go MSU, basic CSM w/Mark of Nurgle tend to be a more economical option. They even have the benefit when needed of being able to go to ground.

[Aspire to Glory]

Yes. They can. I am a dedicated CSM player. I've never been an army jumper. Chaos Space Marines is my bread and butter. I dabble in allies in some support role or another but all my calculations are based on the core of my army. I used Plague Marines in both MSU and large unit configurations in 5th Edition. This Edition is still sorting itself out. It really depends on the role you mean for your Plague Marines to fill.

1. If you mean them for Assault purposes, the MSU configuration is not the way to go. The gun is now king and assault troops need numbers, even when they are tough nuts like Plague Marines. You really need to start with the larger unit to get to the target with the numbers you need.

2. If you mean them to be shooting troops primarily which hold positions and objectives, MSU works great. They are Fearless and hard to kill. Dislodging them is a pain and most people just don't want to do it.

3. If you use them as a mixed bag, i.e. for shooting, objective holding, and in assault "support" they work fine in MSU. When I say in support, I mean that you have a big nasty unit which they follow along behind or race in front of in their Dirge Casting Rhino. In my case I use a Nurgle Daemon Prince with a Black Mace.

I want to stress that while Plague Marines an be used MSU, I find myself in all three roles above using units of 8-10, i.e. running fewer units (quality over quantity). If you really want to go MSU, basic CSM w/Mark of Nurgle tend to be a more economical option. They even have the benefit when needed of being able to go to ground.

Excellent. Thank you for the insight!

[robbietobbie]

Nurgle is displeased.. 7 is his holy number. But yeah, plague marines are really tough, five of them can take a lot of beating (barring ofcourse lascannons, melta's, plasma and the like)

[nurglez]

But they still get FNP against meltas, lascannons and plasma, which is nice :D

I think they can work in MSU, but I'd prefer to keep them 7 man, have run them at 7 since the 3.5 codex :D

[Aspire to Glory]

Heh. The purist in me demands that they roll in 7-man units, too. Just looking at options.

What do you guys like to give them in the line of special weapons?

[Darkstar70]

I now run 3 squads in 7 man units with 2 meltaguns, champ with powerfist and combimelta in a rhino with dirgecaster. I also like to have 1 or 2 squads of 5 with 2 plasmaguns to camp on objectives.

[Blenderovski]

The comment about the normal CSMs with the Mark of Nurgle is a good one - added toughness makes them hard to shift. Plague Marines aren't as good under 6th Ed rules, but they're still pretty tough, and a pain for any opponents to break down.

[Caitsidhe]

I now run 3 squads in 7 man units with 2 meltaguns, champ with powerfist and combimelta in a rhino with dirgecaster. I also like to have 1 or 2 squads of 5 with 2 plasmaguns to camp on objectives.

I've moved away from the Powerfist and to the Power Ax. It is cheaper, slightly but does the same job. PLague Marines almost always lose initiative so going at Init-1 is no big deal for the Champion.. and you really only need the +1 STR to wound easily. The points saved are worth it. Besides you have Meltaguns in the unit so you don't need the Powerfist for cracking cans either. Instant death only really matters against things you aren't going to live long enough against to get a crack at anyway.

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

I understand the desire to take 4-6 units of 5 plague marines to max out on those special weapons but i just cannot do it. looking at the units at that size they just dont have the durability to survive any real punishment even with t5 and fnp. maybe in 5th it was workable but in this edition i dont see it as being that hard to shift 5 plague marines from an objective or to simply gun them down when able to. i like my units aroun7-8 simply for durability. those special weapons just need to have some cushion to prevent their destruction.