Anyone else tired of GW army books (and their prices) ?

[HappyDad]

Hi. This is my first post on BOLS, so apologies if this is not of interest, ... but I wanted to pose a question to the community on here about my current dilemma, which is this :-

I have been playing Warhammer on and off, since I was 14, and I am now 37. I have amassed armies for all races (apart from Tomb Kings).

For the last few years I have felt increasing excluded from the hobby due to my unwillingness to pay the ever increasing prices. Since I have such a large figure collection, this is not an issue for me regarding models. If I really like something new, I buy it (from a discount store). But this is relatively rare (maybe one purchase per month on average).

The problem is the army books. I was quite happy paying £10 for army books. Even £12. £15 was about my limit. I stopped buying them when they breached the £20 mark. Some time on now, I find myself with out of date books for Orcs & Goblins, Empire, Vampire Counts, Ogre Kingdoms, Warriors of Chaos, Daemons of Chaos and soon High Elves.

I mostly play at home with my own family, so using out of date books has not been a major problem.

Not only do I have an issue with the price of the new books, but also the quality. I have barely read a positive review of any of the new books. 80-90% of the content is identical, and although some issues get resolved with a new book, other new issues are introduced.

A further problem with some of the books is that they do not interpret at all into the latest version of the rules (eg. Dwarfs, Wood Elves and Bretonnians).

To bring my army book set up to date would cost in the region of £140, even from a discount store. And this would do nothing to bring Wood Elves, Dwarfs or Bretonnians up to date anyway.

So what do I do ? The way I see it I either :-

A) Give up Warhammer altogether (which I don't want to do, as I enjoy the game).
B) Stick with the main Warhammer rulebook but actually make up my own army rules / lists 'in house'.
C) Just suck it up, pay £140 to GW for the 'current' army book versions and forget playing dwarfs / wood elves / brets until 2014+).

I guess I am interested in hearing if there are many other people in a similar boat, and what you did ? Have many people abandoned the over priced and dreadfully overdue (and often weak) GW army book offerings ?

[robrodgers46]

Hmm, let's take a look. The hard cover army books cost around $50. I will use it probably once or twice a month for the next few years, possibly more as one of the ways I enjoy the hobby is to obsessively make lists. I will likely look at some of the pages literally hundreds of times, after reading the whole thing all the through at least once, if not more.

Yesterday I took the wife and kids to see Iron Man 3. Tickets, food, and parking: $70
I recently bought a hard back copy of the latest Iain M. Banks book: $26
I ate at McDonalds: $7
I put gas in the car: $60
I paid the cell phone bill for the family: $240
I took the wife out for our anniversary: $150
I flew my son home from Nashville: $165

I could go on, but my point is that, dude, everything costs money. How you choose to spend it is up to you, if you have it. I think $50 is a lot of money, but compared to everything else these days it isn't that much considering how much I get out of it. Same with the models. As for updates, GW seems to be working on that, so give them time.

By the way, I live in a very expensive area, and have a decent job. So I can afford the hobby. I can understand how others can't, but all hobbies are like that. I don't own any polo ponies, but I also don't complain that I am priced out of polo.

[ElectricPaladin]

I think that the army books are overpriced. I think that GW is increasingly behind the times. Other companies - Corvus Belli, Spartan Games, and others - are taking the opposite route, releasing most or even all of what you need to play as free pdfs and assuming that selling models will make money for the company. I can tell you that the strategy has worked for me: I've started both Infinity and Firestorm Armada almost entirely on the strength of the rules set that I was able to read as a free download.

GW's idea seems to be that as the rulebooks are a necessity, they ought to charge as much as they can for them, because everyone needs to buy them. To GW's credit, they have started also adopted very high production values, so you get what you pay for... you just pay too much for it. I think a lot of people are starting to feel the way you - and I - do. We don't mind shelling out for awesome minis that we can paint, convert, and play with, but awesome books... that's not what we came to the hobby for.

Will this strategy pan out for GW in the long run? I don't know. Time will tell, I suppose.

If you're really bothered, vote with your wallet. Stop buying. I've got to tell you - I'm considering it.

[quetze]

In the end of the day yeah £30 ($50) is alot of cash but if you think about it thats £30 over about 4 years, thats alot cheaper than most magazine subs these days, and lets face it if you or anyone you know is into video games its £50 for a new game which on average lasts a month and gets forgotten about.

GW have made their books really nicely now i havent seen a single copy of the hard backs fall apart like some of the old paperback army books, I ended up buying about 3 codex SM because the binding came undone so to me in a really weird way its a saving, I only have to pay for it once instead of 3 times.....

And no im not a GW fan boy, as I'm actually more of a Warmahordes palyer. (hell im the local PG here).

As for the often weak army books well id rather see army books at a sensible power level than see another abomination that was 7th ed daemons Gw have really tightened up in fantasy as to their overall balance (IMHO) and id prefer to see this continue.

in the end of the day if you think its not worth it then that is your decision but just remeber what someone says on the internet is not what you might think about something yourself, but if you really cant stand the price maybe look at Mantic Kings of war rule book its £25 and has all the army lists in it and tbh its a fun game and you could use 90% (if not all) of your figures you already have.

[HappyDad]

If you only play one army, and want that army's new book, then £30 is one thing. But when you have all the army books and would like to remain 'current', shelling out £30 a pop for each of them just to get up to date feels pretty fierce. I just cannot justify it - and that means I am being forced out of the game. :@( I can't be the only person in this situation ?

[magickbk]

When I stopped in the FLGS over the weekend to pick up the High Elves book, I was right there with you. My High Elf army is a mix of models going back to 4th edition, and checks in at around the 10,000+ point mark (barely 1000 of which is painted). I also have kids, a house, a car payment, and all of the other family expenses listed by everyone else. $50 for the army book pretty much wipes out the monthly spending that is allocated to myself. I struggle a lot with balancing the price of the hobby as compared to the amount of time I am able to spend on it, which is almost nothing. I played 1 game of 40K in a local store last year. Maybe a few rushed half-games at home, so if you try to calculate how much I spent per game, it wouldn't seem worth it.

But like you I have been playing a long time. I started in '91 or '92 with Rogue Trader, and through all the other changes in my life, the hobby is something that has stuck even if I've taken breaks here and there whether by choice or not. In the end, I usually determine that my frustration is less with the price(although that gets me as angry as anyone else) than it is with how little I am able to be involved in the hobby.

What you do at home really doesn't matter. If you want, you could play 4th edition rules at home if you and your group/club/family enjoy them the most. Or, if you want to play out somewhere, just get the book for one army and use that for a while. There has been an odd transition since I started playing, where back in the day it was rare for a player to have more than one army for each system, and now most people build new armies all the time.

[Kirsten]

it is a shame, I used to buy every book that came out just to read, can't afford to buy the book for every army I own any more. I started with 5th edition warhammer and it is hard to see how they can cost so much more these days, but then all books, novels, textbooks, everything costs a fortune. A study in America showed academic textbooks had gone up over 800% in thirty years or something.

I do think that GW should slash book prices though, it is what lures people in. When I bought every book released, it would sit on the shelf and you think, might just jot down an army, just for something to do, never going to collect them... then a year later you think hang on, where did this 4,000 pt army come from? At £30 a go that is simply never going to happen again for me.

[Wildeybeast]

Welcome to the forum happy dad. First off, I think you have your priorities wrong. Out of all the over priced stuff GW do sell, the books aren't one of them. I challenge you to find a full colour, 90 odd page hardback book that sells for significantly less than £30. GW arent far off imdustry standards on that one. Secondly, look for them on eBay or Internet retailers. You can usually pick them up at 25-30% off GW prices pretty soon after release. Thirdly, have you looked into joining a local gaming club? You could pool together with other people in a similar boat and buy a club copy to share. There are plenty of affordable ways of getting hold of a book (without pirating them!).

Also, this isn't news or a rumour, it really belongs in the general discussion forum.:)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Also, this isn't news or a rumour, it really belongs in the general discussion forum.:)

Mans has a point.

[kyfer]

I do feel the pain in the wallet here. It's considerably more down in Australia, $83 to be exact! Especially hard on a student working and renting, who also wants to do other things. Nearly driving me out of collecting, but luckily only Eldar need updating for me :) Hopefully the worst times are over.

I cried when GW stopped Wayland from selling to here. GW gamers have it tough everywhere, but Australia and New Zealand have it something crazy, rare for any kit to be bellow $55 (non-blister). Hence why NZ has Flames of War, and I'm trying to come up with my own games with Reaper Minis. It's a shame, because most of GW's new stuff is amazing in quality (Daemons, Tau and High Elves were all great, WoC were pretty boring looking apart from Dragon Ogres and Dark Angels looked crap IMHO).

Oh well, I'm close to ranting. If you're playing house games, use the rules the house is most familiar with. The players make a game memorable, not the rulebooks :) Good Gaming mates!

[eldargal]

They are overpriced, no doubt.

Kyfer, google Ozhammer, they hip GW stuff to Australia. Or they did, I've not checked for a while.

[Learn2Eel]

I'm close to my limits with the prices, honestly. But that won't stop me from at least watching the hobby - the video games in particular are what kept me on 40K long after I stopped collecting models all those years ago.

[Mr Mystery]

Meh. I find the price fair for the quality I'm getting, so doesn't really bother me one way or the other. Would I like them cheaper? Well of course. But I'm not aggrieved by the current prices. If they ever get too high for me, I'll stop buying new stuff.

[billytwix]

I've stopped buying the books in one batch. if i think i'm going to play an army, i'll pick the book up. the problem with being a "happy dad" is that you don't have time to spend at the shop and pour hours into the meta forums and game synopsis, where as you could be reading the book at home with your family running around or whatever. its a tough decision to make. i like how the books look, and i don't like the price. recently with their radical one army / book / month pace i haven't been able to keep up. i think its good for the company to have this momentum as it could retain newer players a bit longer, and if the new book isn't your slice, just wait till next month... which keeps the player base in flux. for lifetime collectors like us, who most likely have the cash, but are choosy about where we throw it, gw may not be tailoring the approach toward us. we are probably going to buy something at some point. the question is when and where.

[Wolfshade]

Still cheaper than buying 4 ice creams in rome €64

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22440593

[Psychosplodge]

GW don't make ice cream, but if they did...

[DeadPanda]

GW don't make ice cream, but if they did...

Grimdark chocolate flavour ?

[Psychosplodge]

Not Codex Vanilla? or Slaaneshi strawberry?

Raspberry warple?

[DeadPanda]

Not Codex Vanilla? or Slaaneshi strawberry?

Raspberry warple?

My favourite, mint ork chip.

[Psychosplodge]

My favourite, mint ork chip.

Heresy!

I think I'll take grimdark chocolate and Slaaneshi Strawberry...

[Wildeybeast]

People would get them confused with the paint names. It's a health safety lawsuit waiting to happen.

[HappyDad]

Thanks for all the responses and apologies for posting in the wrong section - a case of 'forum virgin' thinking before acting !

I had actually tried Mantic's Kings of War as an alternative to Warhammer. I downloaded a free copy of the rules and played a game of Orcs vs Dwarfs. I could see the advantages to Kings of War - notably the speed of play, especially since you don't have to remove models. I could see this as a big advantage in a tournament setting. Also, the game was far more 'Chess' like. It seemed a more strategic game, that could easily be played in a more epic fashion (with more models on the tabletop), with less differences between unit types and factions. However, I actually found it rather dull. It taught me that it is the variety, colour and wackiness that makes me enjoy Warhammer. In a game of Warhammer, anything can happen ! My one game of Kings of War actually made me feel a whole lot more positive towards Warhammer. Not to take anything away from Kings of War. It is a case of 'horses for courses'.

I feel all the posts from people stating the new army books are worth £30 misses the point that the majority of the rules / content is the same as early books. If you are buying the books for the first time, then fine - maybe they are worth that much. However, I am quite happy with the versions I have - I don't see that tinkering with a few points values, adding a few new pictures and moving a unit or two between the 'Special' and 'Core' sections justifies my shelling out £30 each. But by not buying the books, I am not using the latest rules and therefore start to feel 'excluded' or illegitimate.

I have decided that I just cannot justify spending over £200 to get my army books up to date. Where this leaves me, I am not quite sure. Other than that I have finally been priced out of the hobby that I have enjoyed for over 24 years. :(

[Psychosplodge]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m150shIu3H1qc3wjlo1_500.jpg

[ElectricPaladin]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m150shIu3H1qc3wjlo1_500.jpg

Damnit, where's my "like" button.

[Mr Mystery]

Heresy!

I think I'll take grimdark chocolate and Slaaneshi Strawberry...

I prefer Tyranid. The flavour keeps changing until you don't like it.

[Psychosplodge]

A great devourer sundae?

[Wolfshade]

Rum and Raisin -> Nurgle's Rot

[Wildeybeast]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m150shIu3H1qc3wjlo1_500.jpg

Choke on a hot dog? Have Americans not mastered the art of chewing their food before attempting to swallow it?

[ElectricPaladin]

Choke on a hot dog? Have Americans not mastered the art of chewing their food before attempting to swallow it?

We learned from the bad example of our former president.

[DeadPanda]

Choke, hot dogs......must resist pervy joke.

[Wildeybeast]

We learned from the bad example of our former president.

One of them choked to death? :confused:

[Kyban]

One of them choked to death? :confused:

Close to it.
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/01/13/bush.fainting/
Everyone shortens it to "choked on a pretzel" though.

[Wildeybeast]

Ah, George Dubya. If ever you had a president worthy of a Darwin award, he's the one.

[ElectricPaladin]

Ah, George Dubya. If ever you had a president worthy of a Darwin award, he's the one.

It's a low blow. Anyone can choke on a pretzel. It's just that we hate him so much - I mean, whichever wing you're on, I think he left office with one of the lowest presidential approval ratings in the history of measuring such things - that the temptation is hard to resist.

[Wildeybeast]

You say 'we' like he wasn't hated by the rest of the world too. At best his legacy abroad is of one comedic levels of stupidity.

[Denzark]

Anyhoo, back OT... tbh if you have all the armies, then £130 or whatever every 4 years, ain't a big investment.

[ElectricPaladin]

You say 'we' like he wasn't hated by the rest of the world too. At best his legacy abroad is of one comedic levels of stupidity.

Fair enough. We probably hated him more, though. :p

[Kirsten]

hated him so much you voted him in again :p

[Wildeybeast]

More than most, though I'd imagine there are some folk in Iraq and Afghanistan who'd like to take the honour of hating him most.

[ElectricPaladin]

More than most, though I'd imagine there are some folk in Iraq and Afghanistan who'd like to take the honour of hating him most.

I dunno... on the one hand, it's easy to hate someone who invaded your country. On the other hand, it's easy to hate someone who conned you into doing the invading. I'd say its a toss-up.

[Wildeybeast]

Fair point. :)

[Psychosplodge]

Anyhoo, back OT... tbh if you have all the armies, then £130 or whatever every 4 years, ain't a big investment.

Wasn't the OT GW themed Ice cream flavours? :rolleyes:

[Wolfshade]

£130 every 4 years, that isn't a arge ice cream budget...

[Psychosplodge]

That get about ten?

[Wolfshade]

Something like that
Ice Cream and Warhammer how are we to combine thee?
http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2012/7/18/391087_md-Battlewagon%2C%20Blue%20Skin%2C%20Deff%20Rolla%2C% 20Every%20Bit%20Countz%2C%20Ice%20Cream%20Truck%2C %20Orks.jpg

[Psychosplodge]

obviously that's an Ork Ice cream van...

[Wolfshade]

The cannon on the top fires out raspberry, strawberry or chocolate sauce...

[Psychosplodge]

That would be how I'd imagine orks doing it...

[Mr Mystery]

Choke, hot dogs......must resist pervy joke.

Fnarr fnarr!

(better late than never)